A Consideration of Empathy (Night Market)

coop500 · April 30

Note: I can solo the Night Market fine enough, this isn't about me, so you can stow the personal remarks.

I posted this in the main feedback thread but it will likely get buried very fast, so I wanted a place to share it more visibility, as it feels like there's a big misunderstanding between people who are struggling, and people who are enjoying the Night Market.

This is also my final comment on the subject, as beyond this point, the data will speak for itself one way or another:

Note: This post is also directed to the devs. @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
And when I say elites, I'm specifying the players that are running around to every thread berating anyone who says the Night Market is too hard, and making threads and comments about people being 'cry babies' about it, and even calling for the devs to silence them.

What do the elites gain from enforcing simple trash enemies to be impossible to beat by casual players?
They have all the bosses, and they have a trial and a dungeon. But they need the ENTIRE place just for themselves instead.

All the people here are asking is to be able to beat the trash enemies. Does having 2-shot trash enemies mean THAT much to the elite community? Does gatekeeping the casuals from the Night Market mean that much to you guys?

Nobody is even asking for it to become braindead overland difficulty, there is a BALANCE between these two things, something that's actually doable by the average player, without needing babysitters. It doesn't mean they have to fall over in two hits, that's not what anyone is asking for.

Just the ability to beat them comfortably for those who are newer to the game, more casual, maybe have disabilities or whatever. Sure, they won't likely be doing the trial or dungeon, or beating the bosses, but that's okay! They could at least do the dailies, and that's what most of us reasonable people are asking for, and that's not taking away the entire Night Market from you guys. Its just making the mind numbing part (trash packs) not a gate from 80% or more of the playerbase.

A good group bulldozes these trash packs anyway, you guys likely wont even notice a difference if the devs toned these down by just 20-30%, but those who are struggling to even take part will defo notice, and actually be able to play instead of just leaving.

The ESO community needs empathy, and it needs it now.

TLDR: Toning back the trash enemies so casual/disabled players can do the daily quests of the Night Market doesn't take the whole event away, as you still have all the bosses a trial and a dungeon. The trash mobs also don't need to be reduced to 2shot overland mobs, but just a healthy 20-30% nerf to their HP and damage. There's a happy medium, casual players aren't your enemy, they're just asking to be able to play in the new event even a little bit.

CameraBeardThePirate · April 30

What do the elites gain from enforcing simple trash enemies to be impossible to beat by casual players?
They have all the bosses, and they have a trial and a dungeon. But they need the ENTIRE place just for themselves instead.

All the people here are asking is to be able to beat the trash enemies. Does having 2-shot trash enemies mean THAT much to the elite community? Does gatekeeping the casuals from the Night Market mean that much to you guys?

No one is gatekeeping casuals. There is a group finder button. Click it, join a group. No one will care how much CP you have, what build you have, etc. because with 12 players it doesnt matter.

I feel like there's a lot of toxicity coming from "casual" players too that just assume everyone else is out to get them, when in reality, there are so many people running around with PUGs from the group finder that couldn't care less about how many hours you have, what level you are, or how many vet trials you've completed.

The trash packs are not impossible to beat by casual players if there are 12 of them. I know because I was in a casual PUG last night. Join a group for the group zone.

LunaFlora · April 30

i agree! Accessibility is important and options for more people would be very helpful.

Trash enemies being so challenging is not fun.
i wish that with Challenge Difficulty being added to Overland we could get a similar thing for Night Market, with lower difficulties instead of higher.
Hoping ZOS might do something like that at least when Night Market returns in Season 2.
it would only affect people who choose to use it, just like Update 50's Challenge Difficulty, especially with how few people i see in the Market.

Another thing that could be helpful is increasing the Bestial Transformation synergy locations and respawn time?
i am not entirely sure how many there are or how they spawn, but i saw 2 yesterday and they do make combat less frustrating for a minute or two.

Decimus · April 30

Counter point: trash enemies being meaningless hack & slash content (i.e. literally all of the open world content in this game) makes it boring and uninteresting for the "elites" (a lot more players than you'd think). I wish this game had some danger and actually forced me to think "should I pull those other mobs around the corner or am I going to die if I do".

Night Market doesn't quite reach that level of difficulty people who enjoy leveling in games like Classic WoW would expect, but it gets close to that atleast.

Game needs more "dangerous" content to keep it interesting, not less.

TairenSoul · April 30

I feel like there's a lot of toxicity coming from "casual" players too that just assume everyone else is out to get them, when in reality, there are so many people running around with PUGs from the group finder that couldn't care less about how many hours you have, what level you are, or how many vet trials you've completed.

I have yet to read a toxic post from a casual player aimed specifically at a vet player. I HAVE read toxicity and name calling the other way around. I don't consider myself a casual player. I have been playing since 6 months after the game began. I play every day for hours. To say no one's cares what level you are or what build you have is not true, imo. Vet players don't normally open their arms to people who don't know mechs, etc. If you really don't care, I suggest you open yourself up to lead a group of solo players! Telling a solo player to use group finder is missing the point, also! There is nothing wrong with everyone wanting to play newly released content!

Horace-Wimp · April 30

Bad casual here (PC NA.)

I hear you. I don't necessarily agree with you but I hear you. I was a bit put out when I first entered Night Market (Skittering whatever it's called.) I got over it after a few minutes.

Night Market reminds me an AWFUL lot of the MMO Rift. The propaganda quest is almost an exact 'copy and paste' of the propaganda daily in Margle Palace in Draumheim in The Plane of Water. Even the graphics are nearly identical.

The overtuned difficulty of Night Market reminds of the way Rift was when it first launched. Zone events would spawn endless waves of invasions that NO ONE could solo - you HAD to be part of a well coordinated group. Which is what Trino Worlds intended. Until people started demanding refunds and quitting in droves so Trino tuned them down A LOT so solo players could defend wardstones allowing the zone event boss to spawn. I expect that ZOS will do something similar though not as dramatic as what was done in Rift.

We have seven weeks to complete the quests and the Golden Pursuits. I think that might be enough time for everyone.

My concern is if most players burn through the quests and Pursuits in the first week or two there may not be enough to people that can't do the same thing and might be left in the lurch during later weeks. So far the rewards don't seem all that spectacular. Without something to keep players interested, by Week 3 or 4 Night Market might become a ghost town for those of us that aren't all that awesome.

I guess we'll know soon enough.

ShutUpitsRed · April 30

I don't understand the discourse around this event at all. I'm pretty darn casual in PvE, Oakensoul and Order's Wrath lol, and so far I've been able to solo the trash mobs and quest just fine so far. With a buddy or two I can see the trash mobs becoming absolute cake. Sneak also seems viable for questing. My only regret is that Zerith-var has been put into the position of taking one or two hits for me before getting knocked out before the next group. Tuning the companions like they're tuned for infinite archive could be cool... even if only to save my heart.

Anyway, as of right now there's over ten MILLION points accrued by the factions on day two of the event. Knocking out a trash mob sometimes drops 30. Clearly, people are doing the content just fine. Get good and/or group, dude. Or just slot Oakensoul....

TairenSoul · April 30

ShutUpitsRed wrote: »

I don't understand the discourse around this event at all. I'm pretty darn casual in PvE, Oakensoul and Order's Wrath lol, and so far I've been able to solo the trash mobs and quest just fine so far. With a buddy or two I can see the trash mobs becoming absolute cake. Sneak also seems viable for questing. My only regret is that Zerith-var has been put into the position of taking one or two hits for me before getting knocked out before the next group. Tuning the companions like they're tuned for infinite archive could be cool... even if only to save my heart.

Anyway, as of right now there's over ten MILLION points accrued by the factions on day two of the event. Knocking out a trash mob sometimes drops 30. Clearly, people are doing the content just fine. Get good and/or group, dude. Or just slot Oakensoul....

Can I ask what class you play? As an over level 3k dps mag arcanist, it's a no win for me. Even with Oakensoul and Deadly Strike.

colossalvoids · April 30

The only challenge reducing way I'd be personally good with is introducing another difficulty level below the current one (but only IF there's enough population for both), so people who do enjoy the current way of things would still be able to have their way of fun instead of total eradication of it by catering to the median gamer as always. Or just unmarry the content from things like golden pursuits or excessive marketing and have it somewhat like a bg weekend but for a soft group content with it's leaderboards, rewards etc. but without that pomposity of the current case. Just more silent celebration for ones who enjoy the challenge or fun "zerging" down big bosses with randoms around. Also a disclaimer that it's a higher difficulty group zone would be appreciated upon entering to clear some confusion people having right now, as marketing presented it way differently from what it actually is in many cases.

BardokRedSnow · April 30

The group finder has been so useful, it was easy peasy to get a group today and farm the bosses. Occasionally we lost some people who died on repeat to mechanics again and again, but it was by their own volition, we would've carried them regardless.

I am very adamant on no compromise here, casuals have plenty of content to call their own and tbh this isn't an anti casual sentiment, as "casual pvers" are completing the content just fine. This is anti players that dont want to put up a little bit of effort to complete anything in this game.

ShutUpitsRed · April 30

TairenSoul wrote: »

ShutUpitsRed wrote: »

I don't understand the discourse around this event at all. I'm pretty darn casual in PvE, Oakensoul and Order's Wrath lol, and so far I've been able to solo the trash mobs and quest just fine so far. With a buddy or two I can see the trash mobs becoming absolute cake. Sneak also seems viable for questing. My only regret is that Zerith-var has been put into the position of taking one or two hits for me before getting knocked out before the next group. Tuning the companions like they're tuned for infinite archive could be cool... even if only to save my heart.

Anyway, as of right now there's over ten MILLION points accrued by the factions on day two of the event. Knocking out a trash mob sometimes drops 30. Clearly, people are doing the content just fine. Get good and/or group, dude. Or just slot Oakensoul....

Can I ask what class you play? As an over level 3k dps mag arcanist, it's a no win for me. Even with Oakensoul and Deadly Strike.

Pure Templar: Oakensoul, Deadly, Order's Wrath, one piece Valkyn Skoria (though I might swap it for trainee chest and see how that goes). Sweeps is the bread n butter for damage and healing, Ritual cleanses and gives a bit more damge/healing depending on morph, and Razor Caltrops gives me AoE breach without using precious magicka. Flawless Dawnbreaker is truly flawless. I'm doing resolving vigor as my oshi heal and radiant glory for execute but if you're not aiming for bosses those could be flex imo.

BardokRedSnow · April 30

TairenSoul wrote: »

I feel like there's a lot of toxicity coming from "casual" players too that just assume everyone else is out to get them, when in reality, there are so many people running around with PUGs from the group finder that couldn't care less about how many hours you have, what level you are, or how many vet trials you've completed.

I have yet to read a toxic post from a casual player aimed specifically at a vet player. I HAVE read toxicity and name calling the other way around. I don't consider myself a casual player. I have been playing since 6 months after the game began. I play every day for hours. To say no one's cares what level you are or what build you have is not true, imo. Vet players don't normally open their arms to people who don't know mechs, etc. If you really don't care, I suggest you open yourself up to lead a group of solo players! Telling a solo player to use group finder is missing the point, also! There is nothing wrong with everyone wanting to play newly released content!

You see it in pvp all the time actually, take a look in any vengeance thread.

There's a lot more people who will defend hard pve content, like myself, and yet I see some of those same players that rightfully request the content stay challenging support and suggest pvp having what makes it challenging and enriching stripped away.

Sephyr · April 30

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

The group finder has been so useful, it was easy peasy to get a group today and farm the bosses. Occasionally we lost some people who died on repeat to mechanics again and again, but it was by their own volition, we would've carried them regardless.

I am very adamant on no compromise here, casuals have plenty of content to call their own and tbh this isn't an anti casual sentiment, as "casual pvers" are completing the content just fine. This is anti players that dont want to put up a little bit of effort to complete anything in this game.

Absolutely this. I've not once been called a name for dying to mechanics. There's been a few times I've done it on purpose to drag some enemies away FROM the group to make it a little easier (skirmishes). I'm one of those folks that loathes grouping up because of some of the valid complaints. But on the field? I've not seen a single name, slur, or insult thrown in all the groups I've been in. And I've been in A LOT. So many toons, so many dailies, SO MANY SPIDERS GOD WHY SO MANY SPIDERS.

lillybit · April 30

I had a lot of fun running around with a tank and occasionally another DD, just doing quests - and I'm a very average player!

Yes it's hard. First time I ventured in I died in seconds, repeatedly, til I found a couple of other players to follow around. After that I relied on the group finder and it was pretty easy to find a decent group who didn't care I'm only average.

The random quests are really (surprisingly) forgiving. You don't need to be out of combat to collect things and turn them in. It's possible to solo them.

I'm really surprised how much I'm enjoying it tbh, once I got over the initial shock of it!

TheSherryOnTop · April 30

I actually prefer night market as it is with trash enemies being difficult to kill as a solo player. You can always join a group (group finder / guild). 12 people are more than enough to kill all bronze, silver and gold bosses.

TairenSoul · April 30

ShutUpitsRed wrote: »

TairenSoul wrote: »

ShutUpitsRed wrote: »

I don't understand the discourse around this event at all. I'm pretty darn casual in PvE, Oakensoul and Order's Wrath lol, and so far I've been able to solo the trash mobs and quest just fine so far. With a buddy or two I can see the trash mobs becoming absolute cake. Sneak also seems viable for questing. My only regret is that Zerith-var has been put into the position of taking one or two hits for me before getting knocked out before the next group. Tuning the companions like they're tuned for infinite archive could be cool... even if only to save my heart.

Anyway, as of right now there's over ten MILLION points accrued by the factions on day two of the event. Knocking out a trash mob sometimes drops 30. Clearly, people are doing the content just fine. Get good and/or group, dude. Or just slot Oakensoul....

Can I ask what class you play? As an over level 3k dps mag arcanist, it's a no win for me. Even with Oakensoul and Deadly Strike.

Pure Templar: Oakensoul, Deadly, Order's Wrath, one piece Valkyn Skoria (though I might swap it for trainee chest and see how that goes). Sweeps is the bread n butter for damage and healing, Ritual cleanses and gives a bit more damge/healing depending on morph, and Razor Caltrops gives me AoE breach without using precious magicka. Flawless Dawnbreaker is truly flawless. I'm doing resolving vigor as my oshi heal and radiant glory for execute but if you're not aiming for bosses those could be flex imo.

Yeah. I stopped playing my Templars when they got nerfed to the ground years ago. As I stated in previous threads, NM is for certain players/builds. That's fine. I'm just disappointed as I feel it wasn't marketed that way. 🫤

ShutUpitsRed · April 30

TairenSoul wrote: »

ShutUpitsRed wrote: »

TairenSoul wrote: »

ShutUpitsRed wrote: »

I don't understand the discourse around this event at all. I'm pretty darn casual in PvE, Oakensoul and Order's Wrath lol, and so far I've been able to solo the trash mobs and quest just fine so far. With a buddy or two I can see the trash mobs becoming absolute cake. Sneak also seems viable for questing. My only regret is that Zerith-var has been put into the position of taking one or two hits for me before getting knocked out before the next group. Tuning the companions like they're tuned for infinite archive could be cool... even if only to save my heart.

Anyway, as of right now there's over ten MILLION points accrued by the factions on day two of the event. Knocking out a trash mob sometimes drops 30. Clearly, people are doing the content just fine. Get good and/or group, dude. Or just slot Oakensoul....

Can I ask what class you play? As an over level 3k dps mag arcanist, it's a no win for me. Even with Oakensoul and Deadly Strike.

Pure Templar: Oakensoul, Deadly, Order's Wrath, one piece Valkyn Skoria (though I might swap it for trainee chest and see how that goes). Sweeps is the bread n butter for damage and healing, Ritual cleanses and gives a bit more damge/healing depending on morph, and Razor Caltrops gives me AoE breach without using precious magicka. Flawless Dawnbreaker is truly flawless. I'm doing resolving vigor as my oshi heal and radiant glory for execute but if you're not aiming for bosses those could be flex imo.

Yeah. I stopped playing my Templars when they got nerfed to the ground years ago. As I stated in previous threads, NM is for certain players/builds. That's fine. I'm just disappointed as I feel it wasn't marketed that way. 🫤

I mean uh. Templars are clearly doing well enough now. The class meta changes constantly lol but you do you

Renato90085 · April 30

Today I joined 5 different pugs as a tank
and I met few RP/solo friends who never parse or done trial there
the lowest player only 23LV
the lowest group dps only 180k(10 dps)
but they all still clean zone and quest
So I think problem is …
the game too easy,don’t need tank/healer too many years…
the game most part can run full dps and burn them,because nothing can’t kill you
only few dlc dungeon and vet trial,we really need sup role
so I don't think there is any problem about difficulty.

Psyphiman · April 30

I’m a solo player who has never done a trial or a vet dungeon. I already have 3 gilded keys and 1600 favor. Night Market is hard, but it’s not too hard. Yes, it’s too hard to solo, but this isn’t meant to be solo zone.

Jammy420 · April 30

LunaFlora wrote: »

i agree! Accessibility is important and options for more people would be very helpful.

Trash enemies being so challenging is not fun.
i wish that with Challenge Difficulty being added to Overland we could get a similar thing for Night Market, with lower difficulties instead of higher.
Hoping ZOS might do something like that at least when Night Market returns in Season 2.
it would only affect people who choose to use it, just like Update 50's Challenge Difficulty, especially with how few people i see in the Market.

Another thing that could be helpful is increasing the Bestial Transformation synergy locations and respawn time?
i am not entirely sure how many there are or how they spawn, but i saw 2 yesterday and they do make combat less frustrating for a minute or two.

Fine, but then you should also get less rewards. You do not get to do it on easy mode and then get all the same rewards.

Bguk · April 30

I have no empathy for casual players who gatekeep themselves. ESO provides the tools, the player chooses how to use them.

Personally I believe ZOS will tune the difficulty. Whether it be with varying levels of difficulty, or a decrease in health/damage/etc. They have a record of it.

One final quick thought. It can be taken as "elitist" to post one's own thread when there is a main thread about NM feedback. Tools are provided, player chooses how to use them.

Jammy420 · April 30

Bguk wrote: »

I have no empathy for casual players who gatekeep themselves. ESO provides the tools, the player chooses how to use them.

Personally I believe ZOS will tune the difficulty. Whether it be with varying levels of difficulty, or a decrease in health/damage/etc. They have a record of it.

One final quick thought. It can be taken as "elitist" to post one's own thread when there is a main thread about NM feedback. Tools are provided, player chooses how to use them.

I have noticed that solo casual questers have always do this in the past. Make as many threads as possible, get mad when anyone says anything they do not agree with, and try to make as much noise as possible as to force ZoS to bend to their will. It has been like that pretty much since One Tamriel

TairenSoul · April 30

ShutUpitsRed wrote: »

TairenSoul wrote: »

ShutUpitsRed wrote: »

TairenSoul wrote: »

ShutUpitsRed wrote: »

I don't understand the discourse around this event at all. I'm pretty darn casual in PvE, Oakensoul and Order's Wrath lol, and so far I've been able to solo the trash mobs and quest just fine so far. With a buddy or two I can see the trash mobs becoming absolute cake. Sneak also seems viable for questing. My only regret is that Zerith-var has been put into the position of taking one or two hits for me before getting knocked out before the next group. Tuning the companions like they're tuned for infinite archive could be cool... even if only to save my heart.

Anyway, as of right now there's over ten MILLION points accrued by the factions on day two of the event. Knocking out a trash mob sometimes drops 30. Clearly, people are doing the content just fine. Get good and/or group, dude. Or just slot Oakensoul....

Can I ask what class you play? As an over level 3k dps mag arcanist, it's a no win for me. Even with Oakensoul and Deadly Strike.

Pure Templar: Oakensoul, Deadly, Order's Wrath, one piece Valkyn Skoria (though I might swap it for trainee chest and see how that goes). Sweeps is the bread n butter for damage and healing, Ritual cleanses and gives a bit more damge/healing depending on morph, and Razor Caltrops gives me AoE breach without using precious magicka. Flawless Dawnbreaker is truly flawless. I'm doing resolving vigor as my oshi heal and radiant glory for execute but if you're not aiming for bosses those could be flex imo.

Yeah. I stopped playing my Templars when they got nerfed to the ground years ago. As I stated in previous threads, NM is for certain players/builds. That's fine. I'm just disappointed as I feel it wasn't marketed that way. 🫤

I mean uh. Templars are clearly doing well enough now. The class meta changes constantly lol but you do you

Thanks for the tip! I'll dust off a Templar and give them a go at it!

lillybit · April 30

Jammy420 wrote: »

Bguk wrote: »

I have no empathy for casual players who gatekeep themselves. ESO provides the tools, the player chooses how to use them.

Personally I believe ZOS will tune the difficulty. Whether it be with varying levels of difficulty, or a decrease in health/damage/etc. They have a record of it.

One final quick thought. It can be taken as "elitist" to post one's own thread when there is a main thread about NM feedback. Tools are provided, player chooses how to use them.

I have noticed that solo casual questers have always do this in the past. Make as many threads as possible, get mad when anyone says anything they do not agree with, and try to make as much noise as possible as to force ZoS to bend to their will. It has been like that pretty much since One Tamriel

Not all solo casual questers always do this.

Some of us will step out of our comfort zones when content demands it are are generally glad we did.

robertlabrie · May 1

I sleep walk through most 4 person normal dungeons solo. Nightmarket is unplayable for me. I chip away at ESO in 15 or 20 minute chunks - do part of a quest, whatever. Gonna sit this one out. Y'all enjoy.

IV_Deity · May 1

Alright. I feel like Night Market being hard is warranting think pieces from some people, when it's actually quite simple.

Nothing is stopping casual players from joining a group in the Night Market. I think that's what people are forgetting here. The content is hard and is supposed to be group oriented. I hopped into the Night Market for the first time last night SOLO and I died after a few seconds to a mob. I am a veteran player with a high end DPS build. Seeing how hard it was, I took to group chat to ask "Looking for Group". I was INSTANTLY invited to a large group running around the zone, NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

It is extremely easy to just hop in a group for Night Market activities. No one cares about builds, levels, and skills. New and casual players will not be kicked from groups or denied entry. Using the group finder is easy. Putting in zone chat "looking for group" is easy. Automatic invites are being sent out in zone chat.

PLEASE, I BEG OF YOU. JUST PLAY THE GAME. Use these simple and effective tools to find a group. It does not require much AT ALL. It is not being gate kept by anyone.

Arunei · May 1

Why does everyone keep going on about the NM being designated as a group Zone like it was advertised as strictly being for groups? It feels like so many people are being disingenuous to try and make an argument here.

The NM was marketed as being something where grouping was encouraged, not required and as something meant for both groups AND experienced solo players. Why are so many people deadset on ignoring this fact and just doubling down on "it's a group Zone"? It was never advertised as group-only so it would be nice if people would stop replying as though solo players were never meant to succeed here. They were. They said it in the livestream, it's mentioned in the article. Solo players ARE at least supposed to have a place in the NM according to their marketing.

But that isn't the case, clearly, as experienced players are stating it's too hard. Even people who have been running in groups, like everyone keeps acting like is meant to be the only way of doing the NM, have posted saying they couldn't really do anything because their groups kept dying.

Solo players are supposed to be able to do this content, as stated by ZOS themselves. If a majority of experienced solo players are actually having a really hard or even impossible time getting through even one or two trash packs, that indicates that something needs to be changed.

Also why are so many people resorting to calling others have issues 'casuals'? Why belittle players who you have no idea whether they're casual or not (unless they specify they are or not) and just make assumptions for the sake of your arguments that people who are unable to progress solo must be casuals who just suck at the game or something? It's dismissive and shuts down conversation.

Vaqual · May 1

I almost find such emotional appeals unfair. Many players have been asking for difficult open world content. It feels rewarding to seek out a group and beat the challenge exactly because there isn't a shortcut.

Lekjih · May 1

Night market is an absolutely amazing way to use old dungeon bosses in a lore friendly way, give another, harder group zone (like people have been asking for), allows players to res and interact while ghosted, it is absolutely in that sweet spot of being what everyone has been asking for. I've seen pvpers soloing add pulls, slowly but they get it done. Stealth also has a good overland use. Thoroughly enjoying it.

Arunei · May 1

Vaqual wrote: »

I almost find such emotional appeals unfair. Many players have been asking for difficult open world content. It feels rewarding to seek out a group and beat the challenge exactly because there isn't a shortcut.

Emotional appeal how? I'm simply pointing out that people are very conveniently ignoring the fact that ZOS themselves have marketed this Event Zone as something that is easier with a group, but grouping wasn't necessary and even though it would be hard, people could do it solo.

Except a lot of people can't. Those who can I'm very curious to see their builds because I keep seeing claims about "oh I'm casual but I have no problems with some unoptimized build" but no one actually showing what what their builds are.

And there IS difficult Overland activity. Dragons, Harrowstorms, etc. No one really does those anymore though, do they? Not outside of specific events that happen for them from time to time.

Also many people, myself included, have said that there being difficult stuff isn't bad. The NM could have been made about as hard as a Vet DLC Dungeon. The Bosses and other actual group content can be harder. But what a majority of people have a huge problem with is the trash packs where each mob feels like a WB. There was no reason for BASIC mobs to have this much health and do this much damage.

You can easily have more Overland group stuff that's difficult. We're saying that the entire Zone didn't have to be that way.

guarstompemoji · May 1

More casual and solo play is getting so much, from Sage's Vault to Favors to Rumors. On top of this, dungeons are being rewritten for solo and story mode, which is...it's an endeavor, but ZOS is investing in it.

In response to one piece of content that isn't that, well. Many responses contain excessive !!!s and calling folks 1%ers or elites. Even your post, OP, comes across that way.

Take a step back, and look, please. Your call for empathy does, well. Respectfully, it does need a mirror.

In response to PvP events, do we require non-PvP alternatives?

Will there be a challenging version of the Sage's Vault? Will the Favors system include exciting group bosses and challenging content?

Will it include PvP elements, for Cyrodil fans?

OP, are these worthwhile questions? We don't want to exclude. Yet, where is a reasonable line to draw? How much can we demand of the devs?

What if, instead, a game had different elements that appeared to different interests?

What if...that was okay?

I will celebrate when my friends get Favors, Rumors, Sage's Vault, and their Solo-Quester version of dungeons. Even though these things, personally, would make me sad and bore me to tears.

I'm hopeful there will be elements in these many, many new and permanent content drops that will be fun, but I am also concerned that: perhaps not.