Night Market is a ticket to frustration and lack of basic respect to usual players

Scaletho · April 30

Basically all 3 "factions" do the same thing: go to the same places and engage in insane fight against hardcore mobs pretending to be "trash mob".

I imagine that each "faction" will ask us to deal with different aspect of ESO:

Find riches/steal things/dig treasures,
Discover new things/solve mysteries
And (this one should be the difficult one) kill everything around.

If you are a "professional" meta player and want to test your capacity you go smash; if you enjoy the discoveries, lore and stories in ESO will chose the mysteries. If you want to play the thief or uncover new valuable stuff you go to the Gold.

But no. All we can do is the same ridiculous "Trial mode" everywhere. Impossible fights even if you have 3-4 players with you. The supposed "bosses" are SO DIFFICULT that small groups can't cope with it!!!

And WHY, ZOS, you create another stuff EXCLUSIVELY FOR GROUPS? Do you despise solo players that much???

Night Market is a huge mistake, it's frustrating and NOT enjoyable. A good idea made completely wrong.

Roztlin45 · April 30

I agree. For years the content in this MMO has been mainly directed as a solo experience, with optional group. Even most Dungeons could be tackled alone. Trials , are fun but if you notice they are mainly the same easy ones listed that pugs can finish. The night market can be described in one word Flustering. Absent of fun and adventure. Quest are hard to finish in NON premade groups (PUGS). This limits a vast majority of the player base. While the Night market has some merits (some good end rewards) , the overall execution of this concept has a major flaw of being overly hard and very little fun.

Athory · April 30

Scaletho wrote: »

"...
And WHY, ZOS, you create another stuff EXCLUSIVELY FOR GROUPS? Do you despise solo players that much???
...".

Yes. Simple as that.

Mayrael · April 30

For years, we've been getting easier and easier content that doesn't require anything from the player — it just holds your hand with "click here to claim your reward". Most events were simply about showing up.

Finally, after all these years, we've gotten something interesting, engaging, and highly social. For me, this is a wonderful breath of fresh air. I'm not saying every event should be like this, but it's great that there's AT LEAST ONE! Congratulations ZOS, awesome job!

Renato90085 · April 30

1% of the new content from the past 10 years is not suitable for me. Zos is disrespect to me.

Eskibidus · April 30

Also the fact that you have to do the trial to get the monster head...

ValarMorghulis1896 · April 30

Scaletho wrote: »

And WHY, ZOS, you create another stuff EXCLUSIVELY FOR GROUPS? Do you despise solo players that much???

and WHY, ZOS, you created over years stuff WICH CAN BE DONE MORE THAN EASILY SOLO? Do you despise group players that much???

Please, ZOS, you ruined craglorn years ago by nerfing it to the bone, dont make the same mistake here!

beer781993 · April 30

I think the difficulty is fine. It's made for veteran players. There's enough easy stuff for the casual housing player as it is.

They just recycled bosses and slapped a new color on it. Rewards are also barebones. I don't want anything out of this mess.

Mobs have way too many disabling effects. They stun, throw you to the ground, silence, throw negates... pretty annoying.

Finding people for the raid no death will probably be the hardest challenge... Many dislike the dull experience.

tomofhyrule · April 30

Scaletho wrote: »

And WHY, ZOS, you create another stuff EXCLUSIVELY FOR GROUPS? Do you despise solo players that much???

There are two solo story quests coming with the next Season.

The Night Market is taking the place of what is normally Dungeons this year. That's it. They took away something for groups and gave instead something for zergs. But solo players are still getting their story quests with the summer update like always.

LadyGP · April 30

Scaletho wrote: »

Basically all 3 "factions" do the same thing: go to the same places and engage in insane fight against hardcore mobs pretending to be "trash mob".

I imagine that each "faction" will ask us to deal with different aspect of ESO:

Find riches/steal things/dig treasures,
Discover new things/solve mysteries
And (this one should be the difficult one) kill everything around.

If you are a "professional" meta player and want to test your capacity you go smash; if you enjoy the discoveries, lore and stories in ESO will chose the mysteries. If you want to play the thief or uncover new valuable stuff you go to the Gold.

But no. All we can do is the same ridiculous "Trial mode" everywhere. Impossible fights even if you have 3-4 players with you. The supposed "bosses" are SO DIFFICULT that small groups can't cope with it!!!

And WHY, ZOS, you create another stuff EXCLUSIVELY FOR GROUPS? Do you despise solo players that much???

Night Market is a huge mistake, it's frustrating and NOT enjoyable. A good idea made completely wrong.

STRONGLY disagree with this take.

First - was in a 3 person group last night and had zero problems pushing through the content. Was the content hard - 100% - but was it "impossible" not even close (and I say all this as someone who took my PvP build into it because I was being lazy).

I think there is a higher level conversation that needs to take place - not everything in every MMO needs to be able to be completed by a solo player. Alot of the "this is a mistake" comments or the "this sucks" comments seem to be coming from solo players. Look, I get it, sometimes you just want to be solo or.. maybe you always want to be solo.. that is totally fine.. but for an MMO to be sustainable and healthy it 100% has to have required group content - PERIOD.

Not every single thing in every single game has to be obtainable from the solo POV.

Lastly, and if we are being honest.. you can totally do this content solo. 1) you can go into the marget solo and just surf with other people and never be in a group or 2) you can make a tanky build with great sustain and finish it - will it take 5 hours to kill one boss... more than likely... but it "can" be done.

I had an absolute blast last night doing this. The Dune sand worm thing that (spoiler free) does things and then you're fighting it (somewhere) was so much fun and my group was in coms laughing about it.. freaking out trying to figure out what was going on.. it was a refreshing change from the usual content we do.

I say double down on this.. experiment.. try more event/timed things. Gamers are hard to please.. they want harder content then complain about how hard content is.. they say the game is dying then complain about crossplay coming.. etc.

Listen to legit feedback... cancel out the noise.. and let the devs cook.

GGs ZoS.

BardokRedSnow · April 30

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Scaletho wrote: »

And WHY, ZOS, you create another stuff EXCLUSIVELY FOR GROUPS? Do you despise solo players that much???

There are two solo story quests coming with the next Season.

The Night Market is taking the place of what is normally Dungeons this year. That's it. They took away something for groups and gave instead something for zergs. But solo players are still getting their story quests with the summer update like always.

And I am glad for it, dungeons have gotten very stale, very predictable to the point where Ive been able to tank them all on vet hardmode without switching up my build at all or looking up mechanics. The real difficulty is finding others that can dps and heal well enough for it.

The zerging aspect is true enough though the difficulty was still high enough that people who got too comfortable were punished hard and killed en masse for not paying attention, which was entertaining to see. It could always get harder, but all in all this actually feels like an mmo, or what I expected mmos to feel like. Better than the writhing wall but still limited time content thats actually fun to play with others in. Its my favorite piece of pve content next to IA. Both of these have been home runs.

karthrag_inak · April 30

Khajiit is having a delightful time - if not able to join group, this one has been able to shadow groups and achieve quite a bit already.

BardokRedSnow · April 30

beer781993 wrote: »

I think the difficulty is fine. It's made for veteran players. There's enough easy stuff for the casual housing player as it is.

Many of those housing players are veteran players lol thats where they get all the cool stuff to fill their houses with. Such as myself.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · April 30

ValarMorghulis1896 wrote: »

Scaletho wrote: »

And WHY, ZOS, you create another stuff EXCLUSIVELY FOR GROUPS? Do you despise solo players that much???

and WHY, ZOS, you created over years stuff WICH CAN BE DONE MORE THAN EASILY SOLO? Do you despise group players that much???

Please, ZOS, you ruined craglorn years ago by nerfing it to the bone, dont make the same mistake here!

The og craglorn was a complete failure. They saved it

Dark_Lord_Kuro · April 30

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Scaletho wrote: »

And WHY, ZOS, you create another stuff EXCLUSIVELY FOR GROUPS? Do you despise solo players that much???

There are two solo story quests coming with the next Season.

The Night Market is taking the place of what is normally Dungeons this year. That's it. They took away something for groups and gave instead something for zergs. But solo players are still getting their story quests with the summer update like always.

Exept they arent. There is way more that 2 story quest within dlc.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · April 30

I personnaly disly that kind of content. Hopefully, they wont make content like that often. Its just unfun. Plain and simple.

BardokRedSnow · April 30

LadyGP wrote: »

Scaletho wrote: »

Basically all 3 "factions" do the same thing: go to the same places and engage in insane fight against hardcore mobs pretending to be "trash mob".

I imagine that each "faction" will ask us to deal with different aspect of ESO:

Find riches/steal things/dig treasures,
Discover new things/solve mysteries
And (this one should be the difficult one) kill everything around.

If you are a "professional" meta player and want to test your capacity you go smash; if you enjoy the discoveries, lore and stories in ESO will chose the mysteries. If you want to play the thief or uncover new valuable stuff you go to the Gold.

But no. All we can do is the same ridiculous "Trial mode" everywhere. Impossible fights even if you have 3-4 players with you. The supposed "bosses" are SO DIFFICULT that small groups can't cope with it!!!

And WHY, ZOS, you create another stuff EXCLUSIVELY FOR GROUPS? Do you despise solo players that much???

Night Market is a huge mistake, it's frustrating and NOT enjoyable. A good idea made completely wrong.

STRONGLY disagree with this take.

First - was in a 3 person group last night and had zero problems pushing through the content. Was the content hard - 100% - but was it "impossible" not even close (and I say all this as someone who took my PvP build into it because I was being lazy).

I think there is a higher level conversation that needs to take place - not everything in every MMO needs to be able to be completed by a solo player. Alot of the "this is a mistake" comments or the "this sucks" comments seem to be coming from solo players. Look, I get it, sometimes you just want to be solo or.. maybe you always want to be solo.. that is totally fine.. but for an MMO to be sustainable and healthy it 100% has to have required group content - PERIOD.

Not every single thing in every single game has to be obtainable from the solo POV.

Lastly, and if we are being honest.. you can totally do this content solo. 1) you can go into the marget solo and just surf with other people and never be in a group or 2) you can make a tanky build with great sustain and finish it - will it take 5 hours to kill one boss... more than likely... but it "can" be done.

I had an absolute blast last night doing this. The Dune sand worm thing that (spoiler free) does things and then you're fighting it (somewhere) was so much fun and my group was in coms laughing about it.. freaking out trying to figure out what was going on.. it was a refreshing change from the usual content we do.

I say double down on this.. experiment.. try more event/timed things. Gamers are hard to please.. they want harder content then complain about how hard content is.. they say the game is dying then complain about crossplay coming.. etc.

Listen to legit feedback... cancel out the noise.. and let the devs cook.

GGs ZoS.

Legit you can two man the bosses with a solo pvp build, I tried that from the jump on my DK before I had to fight a stationary and roaming boss together and it made me finally switch to my IA build instead.

Also I had a hilarious time last night after I tried to invite you when you were already in a group, my bad lol. I was trying to kill the skirmish in the parch and couldnt find enough players to do it, or so I thought. I put out a ping in zone chat and wondered why there was almost no one coming despite a huge group of players being in the instance.

Turns out they were all in the stomach of that duneripper xD I got eaten while typing in zone and found em all, was a great time.

Zos should have the courage to do stuff like this much much more, this is the most fun I've had in PvE land in a very long time.

twisttop138 · April 30

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Scaletho wrote: »

And WHY, ZOS, you create another stuff EXCLUSIVELY FOR GROUPS? Do you despise solo players that much???

There are two solo story quests coming with the next Season.

The Night Market is taking the place of what is normally Dungeons this year. That's it. They took away something for groups and gave instead something for zergs. But solo players are still getting their story quests with the summer update like always.

Yes, this is exactly right. There seems to be this weird notion that I keep seeing in posts. That the night market is THE banner, marquee, centerpiece focal point of the year. This game is now a seasonal model and there will need to be content every season. This is this seasons content. The questing and exploration content will be in June (as it always was) and will be the main focus of next season. It'll also be the centerpiece of the season after that as the new system will likely be the focus. That's a solo experience as well, plus rumors will come and that's also a solo questing experience. So this is my dungeon for the year. Not every season will have content that everyone wants to play. Night Market is insanely fun, my group had a blast and I'm going to be running large groups of my casual social guild tonight and tomorrow and that's what I recommend if you want the full experience. See if your guild is doing anything. Or follow a group. My raid team split in 2 last night and cycled through different districts. We had people sticking with us the entire way. Got them every boss and skirmish.

SilverBride · April 30

LadyGP wrote: »

Not every single thing in every single game has to be obtainable from the solo POV.

In this game it should. When the vast majority of players are casual solo players and the game has been obtainable for that playstyle all along then it needs to stay that way.

This is what is replacing new chapters so it needs to have something for everyone, especially it's largest player base. Instead we get this mess which I predict will fail as the new quickly wears off.

BardokRedSnow · April 30

SilverBride wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Not every single thing in every single game has to be obtainable from the solo POV.

In this game it should. When the vast majority of players are casual solo players and the game has been obtainable for that playstyle all along then it needs to stay that way.

This is what is replacing new chapters so it needs to have something for everyone, especially it's largest player base. Instead we get this mess which I predict will fail as the new quickly wears off.

Absolutely not. Casual and solo do not always overlap, and its not replacing new chapters its replacing the dungeons, which is also not specific for solo players either. And when you get players who wanna solo but are forced to group to do dungeons because they cant solo a dungeon, you get a frustrating time for everyone involved, because they're not kitted out properly for their role.

There's been thread after thread about that very thing.

Everything being accessible to everyone makes the game boring for everyone else that's not exclusively a solo quest enjoyer that doesn't want the difficulty to be above milk toast temperature. Thats a lot more people than you think. You need content that gives reason for people to see how big the population of eso actually is, see the other people, meet new faces or even in my case faces you've seen but not had reason to interact with before. Thats the life blood of an mmo

You may not enjoy having to put up more effort and lean forward in your chair to do something in eso for once, but without that this game wouldn't make it another year much less ten. This is a great direction, there's more than enough easy content in the game as is.

CP5 · April 30

SilverBride wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Not every single thing in every single game has to be obtainable from the solo POV.

In this game it should. When the vast majority of players are casual solo players and the game has been obtainable for that playstyle all along then it needs to stay that way.

This is what is replacing new chapters so it needs to have something for everyone, especially it's largest player base. Instead we get this mess which I predict will fail as the new quickly wears off.

An MMO is a much larger scope than a solo game, and it contains many different groups. Does a pvp event have to be warped into something solo questers can fully access without friction? Do trials violate your design philosophy because they're explicitly designed for groups of 12 organized players, something a solo player can't do? Not every piece of content can cater to every group the game contains, nor should every piece of content dilute itself to do so. This content was explicitly designed and presented as group content, in an MMO, the type of game that survives the long term by players forming communities that last, and this kind of content has been a refreshing addition to someone who normally feels expected to live in dungeons and never venture beyond them.

Nemesis7884 · April 30

You can solo 90% of this game more than any other mmo and when they introduce one time something new cool for groups that are suuuuper easy to find with the group finder in this MASSIVELY MULTUPLAYER game people loose it instead of being open for a new experience...get a grip.

AlterBlika · April 30

Roztlin45 wrote: »

For years the content in this MMO has been mainly directed as a solo experience, with optional group.

Which is a mistake. If you don't want to group idk why you even play an MMO.

CameraBeardThePirate · April 30

SilverBride wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Not every single thing in every single game has to be obtainable from the solo POV.

In this game it should. When the vast majority of players are casual solo players and the game has been obtainable for that playstyle all along then it needs to stay that way.

This is what is replacing new chapters so it needs to have something for everyone, especially it's largest player base. Instead we get this mess which I predict will fail as the new quickly wears off.

No, it shouldn't. There isn't a single type of player that everything should be geared towards.

90% of the game is for solo players. It's okay for some things to be geared towards other players.

Contrary to some sentiment I've seen on here, this isn't the "flagship content of the year" either as that doesn't exist anymore. Each season will have a new thing. I can guarantee most seasons will be tooled towards solo players. It's okay for there to be something tooled towards non-solo players.

SilverBride · April 30

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

No, it shouldn't. There isn't a single type of player that everything should be geared towards.

90% of the game is for solo players. It's okay for some things to be geared towards other players.

Contrary to some sentiment I've seen on here, this isn't the "flagship content of the year" either as that doesn't exist anymore. Each season will have a new thing. I can guarantee most seasons will be tooled towards solo players. It's okay for there to be something tooled towards non-solo players.

There has to be something for everyone and the Night Market is absolutely not for the typical ESO player. So what do we get?

If this isn't the "flagship content of the year" then what is? Because this is all I've heard about.

CameraBeardThePirate · April 30

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

No, it shouldn't. There isn't a single type of player that everything should be geared towards.

90% of the game is for solo players. It's okay for some things to be geared towards other players.

Contrary to some sentiment I've seen on here, this isn't the "flagship content of the year" either as that doesn't exist anymore. Each season will have a new thing. I can guarantee most seasons will be tooled towards solo players. It's okay for there to be something tooled towards non-solo players.

There has to be something for everyone and the Night Market is absolutely not for the typical ESO player. So what do we get?

If this isn't the "flagship content of the year" then what is? Because this is all I've heard about.

The comment of yours that I replied to did not say something for everyone; it said everything for someone. You stated that everything should be geared towards solo players. That is not true.

As far as stuff that is coming that's geared for solo players, how about the all new Thieves Guild quest line coming? Or the Ship Combat system coming later this year?

ZOS has been really transparent about this so I'm not sure where the confusion is coming; you can go look at the roadmap. There are no more "flagship features". There is a new feature, questline, or system every season. And guess what? It's all free! So if you don't jive with what gets introduced that season, skip it.

opalsighs · April 30

A lot of this could be solved if there was an easier mode with different rewards for us casuals, honestly.

SerafinaWaterstar · April 30

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Scaletho wrote: »

And WHY, ZOS, you create another stuff EXCLUSIVELY FOR GROUPS? Do you despise solo players that much???

There are two solo story quests coming with the next Season.

The Night Market is taking the place of what is normally Dungeons this year. That's it. They took away something for groups and gave instead something for zergs. But solo players are still getting their story quests with the summer update like always.

But Dungeons have numerous difficulty modes.
The Night Market does not.

SilverBride · April 30

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

The comment of yours that I replied to did not say something for everyone; it said everything for someone. You stated that everything should be geared towards solo players. That is not true.

I never said everything should be geared towards solo players ONLY. But everything should have something for everyone and solo players were left completely out of this one.

CameraBeardThePirate · April 30

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Scaletho wrote: »

And WHY, ZOS, you create another stuff EXCLUSIVELY FOR GROUPS? Do you despise solo players that much???

There are two solo story quests coming with the next Season.

The Night Market is taking the place of what is normally Dungeons this year. That's it. They took away something for groups and gave instead something for zergs. But solo players are still getting their story quests with the summer update like always.

But Dungeons have numerous difficulty modes.
The Night Market does not.

You're right, and the difficulty is on par with a NORMAL Trial. You can PUG the night market, but you do need to group up. Just like how you cannot solo a normal trial and need to group up.

Make no mistake, Night Market is NOT on level with veteran trials. It's normal content. It's just normal content that requires a group.

AScarlato · April 30

I'm usually a solo player and was skeptical of this content, but I gave it a try - just typed in zone chat to join a group and it was fun. Really energizing and a breath of fresh air with the difficulty over 1-shotting bosses for story quests. I supposes the part of me that enjoys more challenging cooperative gameplay in MMOs is not entirely behind me, especially on a healer.

I don't know how long this will keep people's interest but I'm going to try again this weekend.

If you aren't even willing to press "x" in zone chat to join a party and follow teams around, I don't really know what to say. Our group was inviting anyone who wanted to join.