Class refreshes, subclassing vs multiclassing

Malyore · April 23

It's been mentioned by others before, but ZOS is incorrect to refer to the current system as "subclassing" while it behaves more like multiclassing.
Subclassing, in the scope of this game, is more akin to a pet sorc vs a non-pet sorc. Or an ice mage within the warden class. They are subsets of a class and retain a unique identity nestled within it.

With the refreshes being underway, do you feel like ZOS is still allowing identity-based subsets within refreshed pure/monoclasses? The DKs had their poison motif taken away, and not all classes may have an equal degree of subsets available.

Is it possible the refreshes will erase some of these options and blend an entire class to all match just one identity or theme, in the aim to solidify a grander "class identity"?

If so, what does that mean for the players, for gameplay, and for ESO?

Edit: I wanted to add too that other classes seem to only have one or two abilities which are not enough to create a subset identity.

For Templars they are mostly light focused, with just a few skills being "lightless". If lightlessness was a theme in more of the abilities, I would say a "dark Templar" is a potential subset. But there just isn't enough for that to be currently true, and so I can't think of a current subset within Templar other than stamina vs magicka.

With that being the case, should the refreshes try to add some subsets?

Gabriel_H · April 23

Malyore wrote: »

For Templars they are mostly light focused, with just a few skills being "lightless". If lightlessness was a theme in more of the abilities, I would say a "dark Templar" is a potential subset. But there just isn't enough for that to be currently true, and so I can't think of a current subset within Templar other than stamina vs magicka.

They took away the actuall lightlessness a few patches ago. It's all pee coloured now. :'(

CalamityCat · April 23

I think we need to wait and see what they're planning with the warden as they might go full frost mage with pets or make something that can actually retain the versatility and even improve on it.

We've got players who clearly want to build different class line combos with subclassing and players in pure classes don't all play the same build either. So I think the best way for classes to move forward is for them to retain a versatility inside the class itself. I don't think it makes sense to force players into a narrower range of builds when we have repeatedly asked for support of different templates. Like sorc with pets and with no pets for example. Or wardens who want the bear or others want frost. When I heal I want the pretty flowers too, I love the aesthetic of those skills so much

The DK refresh does make me concerned about warden, given that DKs are now focused on fire and the poison was removed. I have never liked the frost side of warden, so if that becomes the main aesthetic, it's going to break the whole way I play the class. I think there are different options in all classes, and I value all of them. Even the ones I don't use or like. If they all start merging into one it's going to annoy a lot of players.

zaria · April 23

CalamityCat wrote: »

I think we need to wait and see what they're planning with the warden as they might go full frost mage with pets or make something that can actually retain the versatility and even improve on it.

We've got players who clearly want to build different class line combos with subclassing and players in pure classes don't all play the same build either. So I think the best way for classes to move forward is for them to retain a versatility inside the class itself. I don't think it makes sense to force players into a narrower range of builds when we have repeatedly asked for support of different templates. Like sorc with pets and with no pets for example. Or wardens who want the bear or others want frost. When I heal I want the pretty flowers too, I love the aesthetic of those skills so much

The DK refresh does make me concerned about warden, given that DKs are now focused on fire and the poison was removed. I have never liked the frost side of warden, so if that becomes the main aesthetic, it's going to break the whole way I play the class. I think there are different options in all classes, and I value all of them. Even the ones I don't use or like. If they all start merging into one it's going to annoy a lot of players.

Agree,warden feels like druids who is nature not frost. I liked the new DK but frost don't fit for warden.
we already have multiple builds for each class, stamina / magic focus, HA build, single bar. Or multiple my magplar has overland, dungeon dd, healer focused and trial healing all from bar and sets.

LunaFlora · April 23

i think Warden's Green Balance line will get some skill morphs that deal Poison damage.
The class will probably have Frost, Poison, and maybe Bleed.
Magic damage can be replaced by Frost so it is more consistent throughout the class.

i also think the argument with Subclassing not being like other games and saying it should be called Multiclassing instead is pointless. Players also love to refer to Chapters and other DLC as expansions.
It is confusing, just use whichever term ZOS decided on for the in-game system so we all know what we are referring to.

i am optimistic about the Class Refresh.
Hoping all my Subclassed builds all still work after each Refresh.

tomofhyrule · April 23

CalamityCat wrote: »

The DK refresh does make me concerned about warden, given that DKs are now focused on fire and the poison was removed. I have never liked the frost side of warden, so if that becomes the main aesthetic, it's going to break the whole way I play the class. I think there are different options in all classes, and I value all of them. Even the ones I don't use or like. If they all start merging into one it's going to annoy a lot of players.

Remember though, DK never had a skill line called “Heart of Venom.” They didn’t even have poison at release, it was specifically added in U10 to give a Stamina-alternative to flame, but that became unnecessary with Hybridization.

Warden is not likely to lose frost as a damage type since it is literally the name of one of its skill lines. But the other lines also reference plants and animals.

I do expect some unification of damage though. Warden has a lot of bleed in the animal line (but then some inexplicable Magic and Poison), and no damage in the Green Balance line. I expect they’ll try to make all of the animal and plant damage be either Bleed or Poison, possibly with some Frost morphs because Winter’s will be all Frost.

CalamityCat · April 23

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Remember though, DK never had a skill line called “Heart of Venom.” They didn’t even have poison at release, it was specifically added in U10 to give a Stamina-alternative to flame, but that became unnecessary with Hybridization.

Warden is not likely to lose frost as a damage type since it is literally the name of one of its skill lines. But the other lines also reference plants and animals.

I do expect some unification of damage though. Warden has a lot of bleed in the animal line (but then some inexplicable Magic and Poison), and no damage in the Green Balance line. I expect they’ll try to make all of the animal and plant damage be either Bleed or Poison, possibly with some Frost morphs because Winter’s will be all Frost.

Ah, that makes sense. I'm not fully read up on the DK history as I only joined ESO a year or so before High Isle. It's a pity they didn't swap poison for bleed as that would also fit a dragon aesthetic, but we'll obviously have to wait to learn where poison ends up. Hopefully not NB to make them an assassin cliche...

I'd hope warden gets to keep a nice variety in damage, as bleed and poison both make sense from the plant/animal side and they're obvious directions that players would build into. Fingers crossed. I'm sure the frost aesthetics will make them a lot more visually appealing after the refresh.