Grimsford wrote: »

IviRo wrote: »

I didn't know where to post this topic in the forum categories, so I decided to post it here.

SORCERER REWORK

In anticipation of changes to the Sorcerer class, I would like to see Zos focus more on Lightning and Dark Magic, rather than Daedric Summoning.
I would replace the Daedra line with another school of magic as an alternative, it could be Alteration.
If you look at the class description, where it draws its power from, it's more like a Warlock than a Sorcerer.
Actually, as a sorcerer main, I would gladly give up the Daedric Summoning line for a new class that would be exclusively associated with Daedra.



@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_Amy

Yes, of course... Dark magic and summoning make up two-thirds of the class. Now they're going to remove everything and start from scratch, just because "IviRo" wants it that way.
Sorcerer is NOT the same as Mage. If you want to play a MAGE, there's the Destruction Staff skill line for you - you can use a combination of a Fire/Frost staff and a Sorcerer's Lightning tree.

Lmao, I want them to remove the three pets from this class and replace those skills with ones that are more suitable for it, and create a separate system for the pets.
Many people have spoken out about the pets, and they’ve even described them in detail here.
I haven’t said a word about removing Dark Magic.

Grimsford wrote: »

IviRo wrote: »

Grimsford wrote: »

IviRo wrote: »

I didn't know where to post this topic in the forum categories, so I decided to post it here.

SORCERER REWORK

In anticipation of changes to the Sorcerer class, I would like to see Zos focus more on Lightning and Dark Magic, rather than Daedric Summoning.
I would replace the Daedra line with another school of magic as an alternative, it could be Alteration.
If you look at the class description, where it draws its power from, it's more like a Warlock than a Sorcerer.
Actually, as a sorcerer main, I would gladly give up the Daedric Summoning line for a new class that would be exclusively associated with Daedra.



@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_Amy

Yes, of course... Dark magic and summoning make up two-thirds of the class. Now they're going to remove everything and start from scratch, just because "IviRo" wants it that way.
Sorcerer is NOT the same as Mage. If you want to play a MAGE, there's the Destruction Staff skill line for you - you can use a combination of a Fire/Frost staff and a Sorcerer's Lightning tree.

Lmao, I want them to remove the three pets from this class and replace those skills with ones that are more suitable for it, and create a separate system for the pets.
Many people have spoken out about the pets, and they’ve even described them in detail here.
I haven’t said a word about removing Dark Magic.

1. Why on earth should the Daedric Summoning skill line be removed from Sorcerer and put into a separate skill line for everyone?

I think people like you are confusing the concepts and forgetting that a sorcerer is NOT the same as a mage. I've already written about this above.
You're suggesting replacing summoning with something else—alteration or another element—while still keeping the dark magic skill line. That doesn't make any sense, because what do dark magic and, let´s say, fire magic have to do with each other?

Okay, let's forget about the other element. You mentioned Alteration.
Alteration spells include lockpicking, underwater breathing, shields, etc. How is that supposed to help the class?
If you really want the Alteration skill line, it's definitely worth adding as an additional skill line to the "World" tab.

2. I'd rather remove the Lightning tree from Sorcerer and replace it with Mysticism, focusing on spells like dispel, spell absorption, spell reflection, and soul trap.


I'll say it again - if you want to play a "Mage", you have carte blanche in the form of the entire skill line of the Destruction Staff, where you have a set of spells from different schools.

I propose the following:

Remove the Lightning skill line from Sorcerer and give it to Warden.

Sorcerer will have three skill lines:

Dark Magic – the main damage skill line, with a spammable ability in the form of Crystal Shard and some AoE spells too and debuff kit;

Conjuration – a defensive/offensive skill line featuring armor and weapon summoning, similar to TES4 Oblivion, and summoning pets with a set of abilities to enhance them (like Daedric Prey);

Mysticism – a support skill line featuring shields, healing, and so on.

THIS IS WHAT SORCERER IS REALLY ABOUT.

Idk how alteration would look in this game, but I think that's what dark magic is supposed to act as. The sorcerer rune they use spells out the words "Conjure, Shock, Alter". The class refresh graphic also shows a guy wielding a bunch of lightning magic.
So no, don't remove shock. Shock is actually " WHAT SORCERER IS REALLY ABOUT". It's plastered all over the class.

Grimsford wrote: »

IviRo wrote: »

Grimsford wrote: »

IviRo wrote: »

I didn't know where to post this topic in the forum categories, so I decided to post it here.

SORCERER REWORK

In anticipation of changes to the Sorcerer class, I would like to see Zos focus more on Lightning and Dark Magic, rather than Daedric Summoning.
I would replace the Daedra line with another school of magic as an alternative, it could be Alteration.
If you look at the class description, where it draws its power from, it's more like a Warlock than a Sorcerer.
Actually, as a sorcerer main, I would gladly give up the Daedric Summoning line for a new class that would be exclusively associated with Daedra.



@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_Amy

Yes, of course... Dark magic and summoning make up two-thirds of the class. Now they're going to remove everything and start from scratch, just because "IviRo" wants it that way.
Sorcerer is NOT the same as Mage. If you want to play a MAGE, there's the Destruction Staff skill line for you - you can use a combination of a Fire/Frost staff and a Sorcerer's Lightning tree.

Lmao, I want them to remove the three pets from this class and replace those skills with ones that are more suitable for it, and create a separate system for the pets.
Many people have spoken out about the pets, and they’ve even described them in detail here.
I haven’t said a word about removing Dark Magic.

1. Why on earth should the Daedric Summoning skill line be removed from Sorcerer and put into a separate skill line for everyone?

I think people like you are confusing the concepts and forgetting that a sorcerer is NOT the same as a mage. I've already written about this above.
You're suggesting replacing summoning with something else—alteration or another element—while still keeping the dark magic skill line. That doesn't make any sense, because what do dark magic and, let´s say, fire magic have to do with each other?

Okay, let's forget about the other element. You mentioned Alteration.
Alteration spells include lockpicking, underwater breathing, shields, etc. How is that supposed to help the class?
If you really want the Alteration skill line, it's definitely worth adding as an additional skill line to the "World" tab.

2. I'd rather remove the Lightning tree from Sorcerer and replace it with Mysticism, focusing on spells like dispel, spell absorption, spell reflection, and soul trap.


I'll say it again - if you want to play a "Mage", you have carte blanche in the form of the entire skill line of the Destruction Staff, where you have a set of spells from different schools.

I propose the following:

Remove the Lightning skill line from Sorcerer and give it to Warden.

Sorcerer will have three skill lines:

Dark Magic – the main damage skill line, with a spammable ability in the form of Crystal Shard and some AoE spells too and debuff kit;

Conjuration – a defensive/offensive skill line featuring armor and weapon summoning, similar to TES4 Oblivion, and summoning pets with a set of abilities to enhance them (like Daedric Prey);

Mysticism – a support skill line featuring shields, healing, and so on.

THIS IS WHAT SORCERER IS REALLY ABOUT.

1. The reason that many of us are suggesting current Sorc pets be shifted to a "world" Conjuring line is multiple.

a) It's abundantly clear that there isn't enough slot space to run both a pet based Sorc as well as a non-pet based Sorc with the amount of available skill lines each class gets. Splitting the Sorc between the two build & play styles means that each gets a reduced scope of potential skills and in the current state of the game with the huge degree of power creep that sets Sorcs back.

b) The underlying mechanics of Sorc pets are also lackluster in terms of gameplay. We see fewer pets slotted (in general) and even when they are slotted it's often for a singular purpose which is already redundant to Sorcs (i.e. healing).

c) The damage output on Sorc pets is sub-par in the current state of the game (when compared to what other classes can output). Just dialing up the damage values doesn't fix this because, as others have mentioned, the mechanics of managing pets is just too slow and clunky for the current state of combat, whether that be PvP or PvE.

Sorcer's may not be a Mage, per se, but they rely on magic and Magicka in their root lore as their source of power. I do agree that Sorcs aren't "elemental" in nature and don't necessarily have to have a particular elemental strength.

One of the major pain points for Sorc is that we don't have a reliable heavy burst spammable skill. Crystal Frags is a joke and while Crystal Weapon is often the more powerful choice, that skill aligns with Stam Sorc and leaves Mag based Sorcs out in the cold.

The Sorc skill lines are loaded with redundant utility which make us more of a cheerleader class whereas other classes can hit hard and have a useful toolkit. Sorcs don't need 3 to 4 crowd control abilities, half of which aren't effective against the majority of opponents.

When we look at the whole scope of gameplay, whether it be PvE or PvP and we look at what Sorcs can bring our class has fallen too far behind. Subclassing has enabled significant jumps in power and flexibility and we just can't compete. We need skills that deliver on power and utility in ways that are actually useful in more than niche builds.

Some of us are tired of Sorcs being relegated to heavy attack builds because we aren't good for much more than that.

In the game your classes with top healing potential are Templar & Warden .. your top classes for damage dealing are Nightblade, Dragon Knight, & Arcanist ... The class with a strong summoner based lore and skill set is Necromancer ... so where does that leave Sorc? Our damage is limited and confined, often seeing us leaning on world skills or super limited play styles. Our summoned pets under perform against the likes of Necros.

At a time in the past, sure, Sorcs & pets made sense and fit well into gameplay combat but that time is gone and with all of the changes ZoS has put into the game that aren't going to go away we have to really rethink what Sorcs can do.

If the Devs re-work and keep Dark Magic, giving us a reliable spammable burst skill & a reliable execute (i.e. reworking Mages Fury into a dark magic skill), that would be fine.

The swap to Mysticism, I'm ok with that too, that would be a great place for defensive / utility skills

The Conjuration is where I take pause. Summoning armor and weapons starts to move towards redundant because if we're putting defense & utility is Mysticism then we don't want to end up back in same place of having redundant skills. Conjuring something like a Daedric Blade that would be a close proximity damage dealing skill that would give Sorcs that are ranged DPS the potential to engage in close quarters combat without having to focus on Stam based melee weapons; rather the Blade would run off the primary of Mag or Stam. This also works given subclassing has given everyone access to more gap closers and mobility buffs so the concepts of keeping at distance has been reduced. .. A skill like that would be useful and provide flexibility.

As for the pets, I'm sorry, but IMO they need a complete mechanical rebuild to be effective in gameplay anymore. Slotting a Sorc pet is a hard choice to defend when we have so many skills available via subclassing. Sorc pets aren't BIS in PvE or PvP and what's the point of having skills locked into a class when they're only there for nostalgia lore? If the majority of players aren't going to slot and use them then clearly they're better served somewhere else.

A world line works because nobody would have to subclass to access them, leaving the opportunity to stay a pure-class and run pets intact. It would also allow more dedicated skills and passives that are 100% pet centric, not shared. Sorcs need to be competitive in the current state of gameplay and the pets sadly aren't.