Nerf Range Ganking!

albertberku · April 14

There is the new type of range ganking, where 4 - 5 skills hit you at the same time. Snipe + Overload + Crystal Weapon + Winterborn + Crushing + Pulse. At the same time without any notice, 40k dmg from 40m away. Please do something about it. For starters, you can snipe from stealth, this has to change. What is the point of casting time when whole casting time will be in stealth?

My own gameplay footage:

https://youtu.be/UJTJFtm0Qnk?is=Rl5o95t7-5WDI4NO

https://youtu.be/4ACxVjfEK5A?is=BYiuQ6Ie1TJeJbUx

Here is the build:

https://youtu.be/J84kNEKhmnM?is=CwbdPCJhl8E6paSK

kotisovich · April 14

He actually waited until ur ward shiled goes away, also teleport srike on you applied 5% more dmg, moreover you got all combo while on front bar, which i suppose has less resistances.

Ive run into different sorcs and most problematic ones to gank were shield stackers with healing ward/harness magicka/regenerative ward. Its nearly impossible to go through all these shields at once, so try to keep at least 2 of them all the time. For sets i would recommend using trial by fire or aetherial ascension(cause shield stacking as main survival instrument, not dodges or blocking), paired with grace of ancients and chudan monster. All impen of course. Mythic death dealers for more max stats.

albertberku · April 14

He doesnt wait, he just randomly attacks. This combo can oneshot me with fully shielded and at full health. It did in the past. Notice for example in one of the videos when i had fraction of a shield and full health how Crushing wasnt on the death recap even though animation played, since other hits already were enough damage.

So, no need to make it look like there was a strategic approach here. This is a legit 45k dmg oneshot on a shield magsorc. Feel free to try it yourself to find out. You of course dont know how it plays in the receiving end because you never play anything other than ganker. So, you are just theorycrafting but go to field with a normal character and tell me your experience, not the theorycraft.

And then post me a gameplay footage where you actually get hit by this combo on a magsorc on your backbar with fully shielded at full health and didnt die if you are so sure that your theorycraft will work in the practice. How can you know, when you never play a magsorc?

And you also dont range gank. You are using melee Incap gank. You dont play the receiving end, you dont play the giving end in this scenario. Yet you know? And have some recommendations as well about "counterplays" ? As someone that never plays magsorc to someone that plays magsorc since 10 years?

kotisovich · April 14

albertberku wrote: »

He doesnt wait, he just randomly attacks. This combo can oneshot me with fully shielded and at full health. It did in the past. Notice for example in one of the videos when i had fraction of a shield and full health how Crushing wasnt on the death recap even though animation played, since other hits already were enough damage.

So, no need to make it look like there was a strategic approach here. This is a legit 45k dmg oneshot on a shield magsorc. Feel free to try it yourself to find out. You of course dont know how it plays in the receiving end because you never play anything other than ganker. So, you are just theorycrafting but go to field with a normal character and tell me your experience, not the theorycraft.

And then post me a gameplay footage where you actually get hit by this combo on a magsorc on your backbar with fully shielded at full health and didnt die if you are so sure that your theorycraft will work in the practice. How can you know, when you never play a magsorc?

And you also dont range gank. You are using melee Incap gank. You dont play the receiving end, you dont play the giving end in this scenario. Yet you know? And have some recommendations as well about "counterplays" ? As someone that never plays magsorc to someone that plays magsorc since 10 years?

Actually playing all classes, including magsorc. Not as often as ganker for sure, but still. Using buffer of the swift instead of aethereal. That sort of ranged ganker builds only are a pain in the ass for me when im also a ganker, not much counter to that. When playing brawler there are only few gank attempts on me, idk why so. Only one ranged gank on me i remember clearly, but there were 2 of them same time. Also tried different versions on ranged ganks myself with subclassing like on video and there is still a small delay between hits and no stun, some strong players with good reaction and ping still able to block. Would be nice to see combat metrics results though, death recap is just not informative enough. Still try that urself, probably you have more time to play nowadays, busy af

albertberku · April 14

You can clearly see in the video that every single skill is hitting at the exact same time. And you know only after they hit you. I dont know how clearer a gameplay footage can possibly be. There is damage, there are numbers, it shows the moment they hit.

There is a reason why people came up with the idea of using snipe on backbar then light attacking overload and crushing front bar with pulse winterborn and whatnot. Simply because huge damage they all hit at the exact same time. Same as people has the idea of using DK leap with the other two DK burst abilities and a whip afterwards. Simply because they all hit surely if you can land the first leap. The reason people are using them is because they are working, they are breakingly uncounterable if you are not looking at that certain direction and doesnt see it coming.

You could have 60k resistances on the backbar. Do you have time to react to switch to backbar? Or do you want to just stay in backbar whole time while playing? People randomly dropping ranged instant 40k oneshots behind you from 40m away. It is just about luck at this moment, you could be rolling, you could be blocking, you could be on backbar. But just sheer luck.

kotisovich · April 14

albertberku wrote: »

You can clearly see in the video that every single skill is hitting at the exact same time. And you know only after they hit you. I dont know how clearer a gameplay footage can possibly be. There is damage, there are numbers, it shows the moment they hit.

There is a reason why people came up with the idea of using snipe on backbar then light attacking overload and crushing front bar with pulse winterborn and whatnot. Simply because huge damage they all hit at the exact same time. Same as people has the idea of using DK leap with the other two DK burst abilities and a whip afterwards. Simply because they all hit surely if you can land the first leap. The reason people are using them is because they are working, they are breakingly uncounterable if you are not looking at that certain direction and doesnt see it coming.

You could have 60k resistances on the backbar. Do you have time to react to switch to backbar? Or do you want to just stay in backbar whole time while playing? People randomly dropping ranged instant 40k oneshots behind you from 40m away. It is just about luck at this moment, you could be rolling, you could be blocking, you could be on backbar. But just sheer luck.

Its not only about combo. Also consider connection, lags etc. Some players killed by me say that they didn't even see my char, while i was clearly making 2 hits in 1sec, considering gcd. It happened when i had ping around 80. However some skilled players are able to unstun just right after incap, making bfb blocked or dodged, while having ping around 20ms. Sometimes even death animation glitches. Would be interesting to see how it looks from that guy's perspective and what ping he has. I don't think it will be nerfed soon, unless everyone start running that build. Its not so popular and requires good connection to get successful consistent kills. The only thing i would change is make cast time offensive skills pop you out of sneak, like they did to ults. But now you can only adjust build and try to play around it.

NxJoeyD · April 14

What you’re describing here isn’t a “one shot”, per se, it’s a combination of skills applying at once, most of them with what one might call “stack cast”.

There’s a number of skills and set procs that either proc upon another spammable or whom provide pre-paying for GCD. Crystal Weapon is going to stack with Power Overlaod to give the player a 2 for 1 so to speak, but, Crystal Wepaon has to be recast often which helps pace the combo.

I run the Black Gem Monstrosity monster set and while 99% of players probably don’t run it, the amount of damage I can chunk from a target pairing it with Power Overload is often higher than Crystal Weapon, but, it’s a 2 for 1, one Power Overload LA is going to pop for its base damage plus a separate instance for BGM … I can further pair that with Inspired Scholar for 3 instances of heavy burst all in once cast; and all of that is (basically) going to look like one skill.

This is a necessity because with subclassing we can’t say that ranged players are unable to stop melee builds from closing in. Ranged players have to be able to deal high burst at range, especially since everyone can slot mobility buffs and gap closers now.

The other piece is this is weaving, that’s been a long standing high skill check mechanic in ESO forever. It’s not a requirement for gameplay but players who have mastered it are going to be able to output more damage by canceling the light attack animation. Since Power Overload is a light attack replacement, weaving lines up with this very well.

As for the other shills you mentioned, I’m going to chalk that up to server side latency and input resolution. I’ve personally seen latency get much worse, especially after some of the last updates. Some items like Fall Damage is a user issue and hint that you jumped from a high location based on the value. Sundered is a status effect, not a skill in & of itself. Status effect chance and damage can be buffed and status effects are a secondary effect to attacks and skills and as such aren’t subject to actually being directly cast. That’s a sign of players maximizing their build, same goes for Crushing Shock, the elemental status effects will auto proc Winterborn .. these are normally operating mechanics and aren’t limited to range DPS, melee builds can do this too; especially with Sundered.

For example; Focused Aim “could” have hit you from 40m away but those other skills couldn’t. FA is a world skill, not a class skill so Recuperative couldn’t have buffed that. All of this further hints that the player was actively casting skills on you but the game just couldn’t render them in real time.

As a Mag Sorc main this is similar to another problem we face as ranged DPS which is when skills fail to register at all, despite the target being clearly in the reticle. .. this is even worse at range when the distant target object is “smaller” and harder for the game to recognize. This happens a lot!

When it comes to ganking, proximity melee builds have a significant advantage over ranged damage dealers, by a significant margin. Both builds & play styles can gank opponents but it’s far more difficult for ranged players, plus, if we’re going to accept the logic that melee builds can gank then it’s not right to say that ranged players can’t, otherwise you’re just saying ranged players basically have to become body meat for melee builds.

The reality is that this issue is part counterplay part game environment. You can adjust your build or play style to minimize ranged ganking, lots of players do, myself included. But you’re never going to completely eliminate it, the servers are just never going to be that good, especially in PvP which is much more of a spam-fest nowdays.

There’s going to be times where your incoming attacks are all going to recognize all at once, with no preceding visuals, and that’s a reality regardless of whether it’s a ranged gank or proximity melee gank, I see it with both.

Elendildur · April 14

NxJoeyD wrote: »

FA is a world skill, not a class skill so Recuperative couldn’t have buffed that

Technically, it's a weapon skill, rather than a world skill, but your main point still stands

YandereGirlfriend · April 14

This build also has a sky-high chance to de-sync the target, which compounds its effectiveness.

Whether or not that de-sync is intended by the ganker or not (and thus falls into the realm of intentional exploiting...), well, you can be the judge.

albertberku · April 14

Thanks for the long lecture about ESO's combat. As a new player i earn a lot from your guys' wisdom. Especially insightful letting me know about Sundered and Fall Damage. I am a better player now. Oh, how much more to learn in ESO, what an amazing journey it will be for us new players! Hurray!

blktauna · April 15

This is busted multiclass nonsense at work.

Attorneyatlawl · April 15

Lethal Arrow has a long travel time and distinct sound. When you hear the rustling noise, block!

Urzigurumash · April 15

Idk should help keep DKs from being able to run too squishily

VidmaVirtual · April 15

People got tired of teleporting mages who could jump almost nonstop, attack from afar, and taunt players. So they started creating gankers. This is a just game, where we create our own problems. 🙂

BigPlays420 · April 16

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

This build also has a sky-high chance to de-sync the target, which compounds its effectiveness.

Whether or not that de-sync is intended by the ganker or not (and thus falls into the realm of intentional exploiting...), well, you can be the judge.

I’ve been playing this pulse gank build for a couple of months now after getting hit by it myself, and I’ve gotten a few DMs like this claiming HP desync. Every time, I’ve gone back and watched the replay, and I haven’t seen any desync on my end. The enemy HP values line up with the damage numbers shown by the base game, and the kills make sense within that GCD.

At this point, I honestly think a lot of people are just looking for a way to cope with dying to it without understanding what actually killed them. It’s not just the first GCD either, the next 2–3 GCDs put out a ton of damage and pressure as well if the gank is executed properly.

That said, it is very strong right now even without any supposed desync. If anyone has actual evidence of intentional or unintentional exploiting, I'd love to see it. A clip with redacted @names of the death with incoming damage numbers turned on and something like Improved Death Recap (not the base game recap) would be enough.

Sluggy · April 16

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Lethal Arrow has a long travel time and distinct sound. When you hear the rustling noise, block!

To be fair, when desyncs occur you're going to hear the sound at the point of contact or later. This has been an issue since approximately the mesazoic era. It sucks, but in most cases there isn't much either party can do about it. I've been on both sides of the coin. Sometimes it all lands *after* you died. You are running around for two or three seconds seeing the message 'You can't do that while dead' and *then* it all hits you. I've also been stuck in 'weaving hell' with both snipe and force pulse where, like someone above mentioned, you are pointing right at the target and the game just refuses to accept that they exist. Then your attack finally hits and you're stuck again while the game decides how many additional seconds are going to go by before you can do your next action.

This isn't a particularly new thing either. It's just popular again because multiclassing makes it so much more powerful compared to passive defenses than it has been in years.

Oblivion_Protocol · April 17

BigPlays420 wrote: »

I’ve been playing this pulse gank build for a couple of months now after getting hit by it myself, and I’ve gotten a few DMs like this claiming HP desync. Every time, I’ve gone back and watched the replay, and I haven’t seen any desync on my end. The enemy HP values line up with the damage numbers shown by the base game, and the kills make sense within that GCD.

At this point, I honestly think a lot of people are just looking for a way to cope with dying to it without understanding what actually killed them. It’s not just the first GCD either, the next 2–3 GCDs put out a ton of damage and pressure as well if the gank is executed properly.

I’ve also been playing the Pulse Gank build for a while now, and I can confidently tell you that desync is absolutely a thing that happens commonly unless you’ve got God-level ping. You don’t notice it while playing the build, but the desync isn’t happening to you.

Have you ever opened up on someone, and there’s a moment where they just stand still, not blocking, dodging, or casting skills? They simply stop moving and seem to accept their fate? If so, congratulations! You’ve seen desync live and in living color.

BigPlays420 · April 18

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

BigPlays420 wrote: »

I’ve been playing this pulse gank build for a couple of months now after getting hit by it myself, and I’ve gotten a few DMs like this claiming HP desync. Every time, I’ve gone back and watched the replay, and I haven’t seen any desync on my end. The enemy HP values line up with the damage numbers shown by the base game, and the kills make sense within that GCD.

At this point, I honestly think a lot of people are just looking for a way to cope with dying to it without understanding what actually killed them. It’s not just the first GCD either, the next 2–3 GCDs put out a ton of damage and pressure as well if the gank is executed properly.

I’ve also been playing the Pulse Gank build for a while now, and I can confidently tell you that desync is absolutely a thing that happens commonly unless you’ve got God-level ping. You don’t notice it while playing the build, but the desync isn’t happening to you.

Have you ever opened up on someone, and there’s a moment where they just stand still, not blocking, dodging, or casting skills? They simply stop moving and seem to accept their fate? If so, congratulations! You’ve seen desync live and in living color.

I’ve personally never seen it, and I’ve been hit by this gank plenty of times without ever feeling like I got desynced, and I play on fairly high ping myself, around 150–200 ms. Until actual proof is shown, I don’t think anyone is exploiting anything here if the argument is just “server desync,” especially when desync affects nearly every part of PvP whenever the servers are struggling.

The much simpler explanation is that the gank’s one-GCD potential is just ridiculous, even into fairly tanky specs. More often than not, that is probably what people are dying to.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · April 18

BigPlays420 wrote: »

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

BigPlays420 wrote: »

I’ve been playing this pulse gank build for a couple of months now after getting hit by it myself, and I’ve gotten a few DMs like this claiming HP desync. Every time, I’ve gone back and watched the replay, and I haven’t seen any desync on my end. The enemy HP values line up with the damage numbers shown by the base game, and the kills make sense within that GCD.

At this point, I honestly think a lot of people are just looking for a way to cope with dying to it without understanding what actually killed them. It’s not just the first GCD either, the next 2–3 GCDs put out a ton of damage and pressure as well if the gank is executed properly.

I’ve also been playing the Pulse Gank build for a while now, and I can confidently tell you that desync is absolutely a thing that happens commonly unless you’ve got God-level ping. You don’t notice it while playing the build, but the desync isn’t happening to you.

Have you ever opened up on someone, and there’s a moment where they just stand still, not blocking, dodging, or casting skills? They simply stop moving and seem to accept their fate? If so, congratulations! You’ve seen desync live and in living color.

I’ve personally never seen it, and I’ve been hit by this gank plenty of times without ever feeling like I got desynced, and I play on fairly high ping myself, around 150–200 ms. Until actual proof is shown, I don’t think anyone is exploiting anything here if the argument is just “server desync,” especially when desync affects nearly every part of PvP whenever the servers are struggling.

The much simpler explanation is that the gank’s one-GCD potential is just ridiculous, even into fairly tanky specs. More often than not, that is probably what people are dying to.

I’ve been playing this spec for over 2 years, since before subclassing, and the burst potential has only gotten better with certain class combinations (Herald + Dark Magic). Whether there are HP desyncs involved or not almost doesn’t even matter in a lot of these kills, because if the target is going to die in a single skill cast from stealth, and from my experience most targets in Cyrodiil do, or at most 2, it is going to look broken regardless.

I think that the spec’s burst is high enough to kill people before they can meaningfully react, or before the server can fully catch up like you said. You see the same kind of thing with plenty of other extremely fast kills too, including coordinated ball group pushes. But even if the gank is strong, so is DK, so is group shield stacking, and many other aspects of the game that imo are a bigger problem than this gank.

albertberku · April 18

I find it interesting how this thread just by itself evolved from giving advice to the OP about PvP to how broken this combination is. Lol.

aya_eso · April 18

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

BigPlays420 wrote: »

I’ve been playing this pulse gank build for a couple of months now after getting hit by it myself, and I’ve gotten a few DMs like this claiming HP desync. Every time, I’ve gone back and watched the replay, and I haven’t seen any desync on my end. The enemy HP values line up with the damage numbers shown by the base game, and the kills make sense within that GCD.

At this point, I honestly think a lot of people are just looking for a way to cope with dying to it without understanding what actually killed them. It’s not just the first GCD either, the next 2–3 GCDs put out a ton of damage and pressure as well if the gank is executed properly.

I’ve also been playing the Pulse Gank build for a while now, and I can confidently tell you that desync is absolutely a thing that happens commonly unless you’ve got God-level ping. You don’t notice it while playing the build, but the desync isn’t happening to you.

Have you ever opened up on someone, and there’s a moment where they just stand still, not blocking, dodging, or casting skills? They simply stop moving and seem to accept their fate? If so, congratulations! You’ve seen desync live and in living color.

>Have you ever opened up on someone, and there’s a moment where they just stand still, not blocking, dodging, or casting >skills? They simply stop moving and seem to accept their fate? If so, congratulations! You’ve seen desync live and in living >color.

I’m playing on PCNA from Asia.(ping 200-220)
I’ve experienced this many times and wondered if there was some secret poison or skill involved.
Now the mystery has been solved

Oblivion_Protocol · April 19

BigPlays420 wrote: »

I’ve personally never seen it, and I’ve been hit by this gank plenty of times without ever feeling like I got desynced, and I play on fairly high ping myself, around 150–200 ms. Until actual proof is shown, I don’t think anyone is exploiting anything here if the argument is just “server desync,” especially when desync affects nearly every part of PvP whenever the servers are struggling.

The much simpler explanation is that the gank’s one-GCD potential is just ridiculous, even into fairly tanky specs. More often than not, that is probably what people are dying to.

“I’ve never personally contracted cancer, so until you show me footage of someone slowly dying in a hospital bed, I don’t think anyone is getting sick from it.”

That’s what these “I’ve never seen it, so it doesn’t exist” arguments sound like. Which is funny because if you type “ESO desync” into the search bar on YouTube, the second result is a Crushing Shock ganker build video from a well-known veteran content creator who literally says the combo can cause desync about three minutes into the video.

Yes, the combo can kill people easily on its own. I’m not arguing that point. And the desync doesn’t always happen. But the combo creates a scenario where desync is far more likely to happen due to the high amount of calculations from up to 10 instances of damage occurring in a single GCD.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · April 19

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

BigPlays420 wrote: »

I’ve personally never seen it, and I’ve been hit by this gank plenty of times without ever feeling like I got desynced, and I play on fairly high ping myself, around 150–200 ms. Until actual proof is shown, I don’t think anyone is exploiting anything here if the argument is just “server desync,” especially when desync affects nearly every part of PvP whenever the servers are struggling.

The much simpler explanation is that the gank’s one-GCD potential is just ridiculous, even into fairly tanky specs. More often than not, that is probably what people are dying to.

“I’ve never personally contracted cancer, so until you show me footage of someone slowly dying in a hospital bed, I don’t think anyone is getting sick from it.”

That’s what these “I’ve never seen it, so it doesn’t exist” arguments sound like. Which is funny because if you type “ESO desync” into the search bar on YouTube, the second result is a Crushing Shock ganker build video from a well-known veteran content creator who literally says the combo can cause desync about three minutes into the video.

Yes, the combo can kill people easily on its own. I’m not arguing that point. And the desync doesn’t always happen. But the combo creates a scenario where desync is far more likely to happen due to the high amount of calculations from up to 10 instances of damage occurring in a single GCD.

You are just flat-out wrong here, and the more you write, the more obvious it gets that you do not actually understand the gank well enough to be making exploit accusations this confidently.

Epic’s build was not even properly reverse engineered, so using that as some kind of authority piece is already shaky from the start. On top of that, the setups that produce the real disgusting damage are more nuanced than the average forum tourist seems capable of understanding. Watching a video and hearing “this can cause desync” clearly does not make you an expert on how the build actually functions.

What you keep calling “proof” is not proof at all. It is a guess layered on top of a misunderstanding. ESO PvP desyncs all the time. It has for years. It happens in ball group pushes, in outnumbered fights, in keeps, in open field, everywhere. When a build dumps an absurd amount of burst into an insanely compressed window, deaths are obviously going to look scuffed. That does not mean anyone is exploiting. It means the burst is overtuned and the server is, as usual, struggling to keep up.

And that is the part you seem unable to separate: overtuned burst is not the same thing as deliberate exploit abuse. Those are two different claims. The first one is obvious. The second one requires actual evidence, and no, “a YouTuber said it in a video” is not evidence unless your standards are unbelievably low.

So if you want to accuse people of exploiting, then do the adult thing and provide real proof: reproducible clips, proper breakdowns, something that shows more than you just being confused by how fast the combo kills. Until then, this is just another “I died too fast, therefore it must be an exploit” post dressed up with fake certainty.

The build is overtuned. Sure. Nobody serious is denying that. But your attempt to turn that into some confirmed exploit narrative is weak, badly argued, and based on a shallow understanding of the mechanic.

BigPlays420 · April 19

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

BigPlays420 wrote: »

I’ve personally never seen it, and I’ve been hit by this gank plenty of times without ever feeling like I got desynced, and I play on fairly high ping myself, around 150–200 ms. Until actual proof is shown, I don’t think anyone is exploiting anything here if the argument is just “server desync,” especially when desync affects nearly every part of PvP whenever the servers are struggling.

The much simpler explanation is that the gank’s one-GCD potential is just ridiculous, even into fairly tanky specs. More often than not, that is probably what people are dying to.

“I’ve never personally contracted cancer, so until you show me footage of someone slowly dying in a hospital bed, I don’t think anyone is getting sick from it.”

That’s what these “I’ve never seen it, so it doesn’t exist” arguments sound like. Which is funny because if you type “ESO desync” into the search bar on YouTube, the second result is a Crushing Shock ganker build video from a well-known veteran content creator who literally says the combo can cause desync about three minutes into the video.

Yes, the combo can kill people easily on its own. I’m not arguing that point. And the desync doesn’t always happen. But the combo creates a scenario where desync is far more likely to happen due to the high amount of calculations from up to 10 instances of damage occurring in a single GCD.

Maybe desyncs do happen. Maybe. But there are tons of clips out there of people both getting hit by this gank and using it themselves, and I still have yet to see a clip that actually proves real HP desync, meaning your health is visibly showing higher than it really is before the kill lands. Until somebody provides that, people need to stop presenting it as fact and especially stop throwing around the word “exploiting.”

That is really the core of my argument here. Even if HP desync does happen on occasion, does it even matter in cases where the target was going to die anyway because the combo is that overloaded? If the real issue is just the server failing to keep up with a huge amount of damage in a very short window, then that is not some unique exploit tied to this build. Ball groups have been stressing the server with absurd amounts of calculations for years, and nobody treats server strain itself as some special form of exploiting. Server desync is unfortunately a standard part of PvP at this point.

So all I am saying is this: provide proof for something that is currently unproven and mostly hearsay, and stop calling it exploiting any more than the many other server-related issues PvP already has. This will be my last post on the matter unless somebody brings actual evidence that is worth analyzing.

Oblivion_Protocol · April 19

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Not typing all this nonsense…

BigPlays420 wrote: »

Etc, etc.

Okay, you two. Let me make my point a bit clearer, because something is getting obviously lost in translation.

I’m not saying this is some 100% guaranteed exploit that kills everyone regardless of skill. I’m not saying that the massive amount of burst in a short period of time isn’t what’s killing most of the people this build faces. I’m saying that desync issues happen more often with this combo than with normal attacks, and that’s part of the appeal for many who run this build.

You following so far?

The issue isn’t even mega obvious. It’s usually a stutter step the game takes while calculating what’s happening, and it can cause someone to basically not register damage from attacks when they land, but only a second later. To most PVP players, a second doesn’t make a difference. But for those who operate at that level of reaction time and skill, it’s the difference between life and death.

You two are screaming about proof, but what proof could anyone offer? I could show a thousand videos of folks getting hit by the combo, but it would just look like someone not reacting fast enough or just getting melted by multiple sources of damage at once, which is the point. So I guess believe me or don’t? But I know what I and many others have seen.

Purposeful desync tactics are nothing new to this game. Repelling Shield didn’t start getting slapped onto builds just because people wanted to cosplay as Captain America. So why would it not be believable that people would gravitate to a strategy that offers the potential for one, on top of massive damage?

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · April 20

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Not typing all this nonsense…

BigPlays420 wrote: »

Etc, etc.

Okay, you two. Let me make my point a bit clearer, because something is getting obviously lost in translation.

I’m not saying this is some 100% guaranteed exploit that kills everyone regardless of skill. I’m not saying that the massive amount of burst in a short period of time isn’t what’s killing most of the people this build faces. I’m saying that desync issues happen more often with this combo than with normal attacks, and that’s part of the appeal for many who run this build.

You following so far?

The issue isn’t even mega obvious. It’s usually a stutter step the game takes while calculating what’s happening, and it can cause someone to basically not register damage from attacks when they land, but only a second later. To most PVP players, a second doesn’t make a difference. But for those who operate at that level of reaction time and skill, it’s the difference between life and death.

You two are screaming about proof, but what proof could anyone offer? I could show a thousand videos of folks getting hit by the combo, but it would just look like someone not reacting fast enough or just getting melted by multiple sources of damage at once, which is the point. So I guess believe me or don’t? But I know what I and many others have seen.

Purposeful desync tactics are nothing new to this game. Repelling Shield didn’t start getting slapped onto builds just because people wanted to cosplay as Captain America. So why would it not be believable that people would gravitate to a strategy that offers the potential for one, on top of massive damage?

Still no proof just misinformed and basic hearsay. Done here too.

albertberku · May 7

Here is a video again:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8473912/#Comment_8473912

katorga · 12:17AM

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

This build also has a sky-high chance to de-sync the target, which compounds its effectiveness.

Whether or not that de-sync is intended by the ganker or not (and thus falls into the realm of intentional exploiting...), well, you can be the judge.

That is the point of snipe. Desync.

I got hit with it last night....well played. I was impressed.

This has been a workable build for YEARS. If I recall correctly Way of Fire got nerfed from any attack to just light attacks because of it. It goes in and out of style based on the dominance of melee builds. Makes sense with recent DK changes that it comes back into vogue.

The current version is a little too complicated for me. It fully workable on zerg players just using arcanist skill, crystal weapon, and spamming Crushing. Any build that turns Crushing from 3 damage 4 status to 8-10 instances of damage and 6-8 status effects is what makes it work....combo that with overload, merciless, execute, whatever and you can get easy kills on a on the bottom 75% of open world players or other glass cannons.