There are a few things I don't understand about this challenge.

• Why are players rushing through this challenge? There is plenty of time to meet the objective by just doing 10 to 20 or so each day.
• There are plenty of real enemies without including creatures, which are not our enemies. Why do creatures even count for this?
• Why is this restricted to just 3 zones? What is special about these zones?

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There are a few things I don't understand about this challenge.

• Why are players rushing through this challenge? There is plenty of time to meet the objective by just doing 10 to 20 or so each day.
• There are plenty of real enemies without including creatures, which are not our enemies. Why do creatures even count for this?
• Why is this restricted to just 3 zones? What is special about these zones?

People are different and play the game differently. Some people like to rush through things or finish them immediately.

Creatures counting as kills seems like it could be an oversight or a mistake in coding the challenge. I don't think creatures have normally counted for similar challenges under the endeavor system (except for some that specifically had us killing domesticated animals / livestock iirc). But perhaps also there was never such a general "kill all enemies in the zone" task for endeavors, I can't remember. Usually they were more specifically targeted, like kill people; kill beasts, kill daedra, etc.

I can't speak for zos, but there is already one known bug with the challenge (instanced areas not counting) so it seems like maybe it wasn't fully thought out or tested.

The 3 zones were just added to the base game in u49. So perhaps zos thinks that makes them special.

I believe you're quite right. These 3 zones were just made base game. There may be an engagement target Zos is trying to hit or maybe they just thought it'd be fun.

To silverbrides question. Why are people rushing through. That's just how a lot of gamers are. It's kinda fomo in action. It's the same reason why a battle pass. Because they work, gamers will fear missing out and do it. To be fair, people also seem to miss key info. There was a not small number of members who thought they only had a week to do said challenge.

As for why creatures count as kills, who knows but for most players, a kill is a kill. A tally on the board. If you see it differently, that's totally ok. Options are good. I'd prefer the option be there and if it offends, you just don't do it. Others shouldn't be held to someone else's quirks or beliefs. We know that public dungeons and delves are supposed to be included and it will be fixed. That will open up much more enemies to kill.

SilverBride wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

[To Silverbrides question. Why are people rushing through. That's just how a lot of gamers are. It's kinda fomo in action. It's the same reason why a battle pass. Because they work, gamers will fear missing out and do it. To be fair, people also seem to miss key info. There was a not small number of members who thought they only had a week to do said challenge.

As for why creatures count as kills, who knows but for most players, a kill is a kill. A tally on the board. If you see it differently, that's totally ok. Options are good. I'd prefer the option be there and if it offends, you just don't do it. Others shouldn't be held to someone else's quirks or beliefs. We know that public dungeons and delves are supposed to be included and it will be fixed. That will open up much more enemies to kill.

I get the rushing thing but 1000 is a LOT more than we have had before. I personally don't have the patience to do that all at once. The only reason I am slowly working on it is because of the 1000 tome points to complete it which I am using to buy seals and gold bars.

I am not asking about creatures because I think it's bad or offensive to whack them down. I personally feel bad doing it but that is just me. But I will not judge others because I have been in that situation before of being judged in how I am in real life by what my character did in game.

I'm with you dude. I'm personally at probably 200. It's just not that important to me. This isn't my first mmo with a battle pass. I'm working to let the newness fade and let tomes just be one a background thing that I do if I feel like it. I know I'll get the 1000 before the end.

As for the critters, if you do it or don't, no one should be judged.

I've only done my weeklies last week and this week, nothing extra, and I'm at about 400/1000 with the seasonal task now. Just saying.

What about fetcherflies?

aetherix8 wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There are a few things I don't understand about this challenge.

• Why are players rushing through this challenge? There is plenty of time to meet the objective by just doing 10 to 20 or so each day.
• There are plenty of real enemies without including creatures, which are not our enemies. Why do creatures even count for this?
• Why is this restricted to just 3 zones? What is special about these zones?

People are different and play the game differently. Some people like to rush through things or finish them immediately.

Creatures counting as kills seems like it could be an oversight or a mistake in coding the challenge. I don't think creatures have normally counted for similar challenges under the endeavor system (except for some that specifically had us killing domesticated animals / livestock iirc). But perhaps also there was never such a general "kill all enemies in the zone" task for endeavors, I can't remember. Usually they were more specifically targeted, like kill people; kill beasts, kill daedra, etc.

I can't speak for zos, but there is already one known bug with the challenge (instanced areas not counting) so it seems like maybe it wasn't fully thought out or tested.

The 3 zones were just added to the base game in u49. So perhaps zos thinks that makes them special.

It isn’t an oversight, it has always worked that way. Back in the day, I remember running around the Hollow City, killing all the spiders and a scorpion to complete a weekly “kill x foes” endeavor while doing the writs. There is a distinction between “foes” (the only category that includes critter), and “enemies”.

ZOS has a weird understanding of English then, a foe is an enemy. Any thesaurus will show that enemy and foe have the same meaning in English, there really isn't any significant difference.

I think it's the developers taking the easy path, kill "foes" sounds better than kill anything besides non-hostile humanoids. It will also be much easier to code than trying to carve out an exception for passive creatures.

Ardaghion wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There are a few things I don't understand about this challenge.

• Why are players rushing through this challenge? There is plenty of time to meet the objective by just doing 10 to 20 or so each day.
• There are plenty of real enemies without including creatures, which are not our enemies. Why do creatures even count for this?
• Why is this restricted to just 3 zones? What is special about these zones?

People are different and play the game differently. Some people like to rush through things or finish them immediately.

Creatures counting as kills seems like it could be an oversight or a mistake in coding the challenge. I don't think creatures have normally counted for similar challenges under the endeavor system (except for some that specifically had us killing domesticated animals / livestock iirc). But perhaps also there was never such a general "kill all enemies in the zone" task for endeavors, I can't remember. Usually they were more specifically targeted, like kill people; kill beasts, kill daedra, etc.

I can't speak for zos, but there is already one known bug with the challenge (instanced areas not counting) so it seems like maybe it wasn't fully thought out or tested.

The 3 zones were just added to the base game in u49. So perhaps zos thinks that makes them special.

It isn’t an oversight, it has always worked that way. Back in the day, I remember running around the Hollow City, killing all the spiders and a scorpion to complete a weekly “kill x foes” endeavor while doing the writs. There is a distinction between “foes” (the only category that includes critter), and “enemies”.

ZOS has a weird understanding of English then, a foe is an enemy. Any thesaurus will show that enemy and foe have the same meaning in English, there really isn't any significant difference.

I think it's the developers taking the easy path, kill "foes" sounds better than kill anything besides non-hostile humanoids. It will also be much easier to code than trying to carve out an exception for passive creatures.

Yes, 'foes' and 'enemies' belong to the same semantic field, and the only difference apparently is that ’foes’ is older, less frequent, and has certain connotations (from Germanic and Latin). An often-cited distinction is that ‘foe’ is literary, while ‘enemy’ is common language, and in that context 'foes' fits in the ESO better.

If I remember correctly, the wall breaking event had a golden pursuit to "kill 200 enemies in Coldharbour", and I went straight to the Hollow City, but to my disappointment, spiders didn't count. That's when I began to make this distinction between 'foes' and 'enemies' categories in ESO, but maybe it used to work differently depending on whether it's an endeavor or a golden pursuit? Other than that, seals were earned by killing 'foes', either specified (e.g. dangerous, humanoid, etc.) where critters didn't count, or unspecified weekly "kill 150 foes" that included critters.

And on the main topic, I annihilated thousands of tiny spiders to get these weekly endeavors done very fast. I avoid killing spiders intentionally IRL; I guess what allowed me to delete them over so many weeks without any sense of uneasiness was that I was the only one doing it (and I looted them to prevent litter). Other players were going about their business and it was just normal, unlike the mass murder that was happening in Wrothgar the other day. On that day, anywhere I looked I could only see players deleting anything that moved. That was a crazy spectacle to witness, akin to mass madness.

The problem is, it's just so badly done. Like everything. Nothing gets checked. Nothing gets proofread. They launch a whole Wrothgar-oriented Tome, and nothing syncs with anything else. There is a certain amount of satisfaction from alighning your kills with your arenas with your group events, but can you do this? No. We have to wait for Update 50 by which time I will have moved from grumpy to super-grumpy to --- unmentionable words this game. I've probably had to kill 1000 things just to get to the stupid ridiculous annoying public dungeon group event in wrothgar, and none of it counts. I can't even take pleasure in doing the quest because I don't even want to be playing in Wrothgar at the moment, but every time I reroll, I just get another Wrothgar thing.

Actually, I think I'll just skip this whole tome thing. I just decided. I no longer care. It's worthless, and while it could have offered some fun and play direction, it was bady done, like companions. Like housing. Like jewellery. Probably like Tales of Tribute if I knew anything about that.

SilverBride wrote: »

There are a few things I don't understand about this challenge.

• Why are players rushing through this challenge? There is plenty of time to meet the objective by just doing 10 to 20 or so each day.
• There are plenty of real enemies without including creatures, which are not our enemies. Why do creatures even count for this?
• Why is this restricted to just 3 zones? What is special about these zones?

1. No idea and I've asked the same question myself. I suspect that when it first dropped, many assumed they had a week or maybe two to complete it like the Anniversary boxes one. A bit of clarification in the tool-tip on whether something is time-sensitive would have gone a long way toward clearing that up. OTOH, think back on all the folks who ran out and completed Golden Pursuits within a day or two of their becoming available, in spite of the pursuits running for weeks or a month or more. There seems to be a lot of "gotta get it done NOW!" in people's heads.
2. The criteria for counting is mostly that it has a hit box and at least 1 hit point. Most wildlife, insects, and such have those, so they count. Someone could conceivably RP as a hunter and there have been pursuits/endeavors centered around hunting wildlife, so it's not much of a stretch. The problem is compounded by the delve and public dungeon opponents not counting (at least until the next incremental), so wildlife was all that was left.
3. Much easier. The three zones are the ones that went base-game in March. ZOS seems to be creating incentives to get players into the zones they now have access to. Probably not much of a spoiler, but PTS has challenges which tie in with the Thieves Guild story coming in U50. Uncle Sheo's story doesn't become available until next week, but I suspect there will be challenges related to that, too.

Thalmar wrote: »

No content should ever encourage toxicity. Killing a rabbit maybe not count toxicity for the person who does it for fun, but definetely there are many people with high empathy level see that from a different perspective.

I'm personally not very fond of the mindless murder of innocent people and whole towns being dead (I do have one assassin character, because I wanted to complete the Dark Brotherhood storyline once, but also he only kills if it makes sense for him situatively and doesn't just slaughter whole cities just because he can). I also think it strongly diminishes the atmosphere and immersion for players who currently quest at that location and then miss all ambient dialogue and extra npc dialogue lines for that town. All animals in the landscape being dead also doesn't exactly help if someone wants to enjoy the worldbuilding and atmosphere of a zone. But what's the solution? Even if there are also other activities, it's still mainly a game about killing fictional living beings. They decided to introduce assassination mechanics, so people will use them. As it's medieval fantasy, being able to hunt animals for food or their pelts is also a normal part of the world and of gameplay. And again, if it's there, people will make use of it. I may not like people slaughtering whole zones, I can even find it stupid or of bad taste (I find it rather weird how some people enjoy killcams with blood splatters everywhere), but it's not any of my business how other players make use of existing game mechanics.

Also, again: Just because people can easily distinguish emotionally between fiction and reality (maybe it's also a cultural difference; where I live, it's one central aspect that's supposed to distinguish adults from children, and the main reasoning for giving games an 16+ or 18+ rating is "At that age, people are capable of clearly, mentally and emotionally, separating between reality and fiction"), it doesn't mean they have less empathy.