Race feedback

VixenHunny · April 13

Hello,

I'm new to this forum but i'd like to see something changed as we move towards making the game more balanced,
I feel a few races need changing.
Starting with Woof Elf

Wood Elf has constantly been forgotten as the useless race because it brings no benefit to pvp or pve. I think they should have their pen increased. because their pen is very lack=luster to the pen a set such a Twice-Fanged Serpent gives. it's wrong and leaves for a unhealthy gameplay loop. maybe with the changes done with scribing, we could see changes such as reduce cost of vault, something to bring the reasoning for picking a Wood Elf, rather than everyone just picking Dark Elf, Khajiit or Breton. I myself am a Wood Elf enjoyer and I would like to see more value into picking this race rather than speed and penetration. the penetration is very low and not worth even picking the race because of how its easier to get penetration through sets. Maybe increase it to 1500 again or even 3000. if Khajiit can get 14% critical damage and healing, there needs to be an incentive to pick Wood Elf over other races. If you want you can increase their movement speed too to 7% instead of 5%. But that might be pushing it

Redguard
This one is tricky as it was meta for quite a long time before races 2.0

But what I would honestly do is make them do more damage with weapon skills. perhaps by 10%. increase their resource restore by a tiny margin such as about 2000 stamina, this will ensure theres more value in picking the race rather than just a joke because of how bad it is combat wise.

High Elf
High Elf has always been nice, however I think maybe their weapon damage modifier needs to be moved from weapon damage, to percentage based damage. so there's more incentive to play the class. maybe a increase to their resource restore since it isn't the greatest

Dark Elf

Dark Elves specialize in fire, I think they should have increased fire damage.

Khajiit
Khajiits specialize in striking fast and leaving so maybe movement speed while still keeping their crit damage modifer and crit healing modifier

Breton
Breton has very high magic resilience, good recov, and reduced cost, maybe having them do increased damage with magic abilities might not be a bad idea.

Nord
Nord is kinda iffy, I wouldn't change too much on them, maybe increase their ultimate generation.

Imperial
For being a paid for race, its not very useful, good for sustain but thats about it. no real reason to get it. I think if you want to incentivize people to spend money to get imperial you need something that will help with that, maybe increased resource reduction or a damage reduction modifier..

Orc
Orc is fine however i'd give them more stamina.

Argonian
Argonian is hard to balance because if you do it wrong it will become overpowered again, I feel maybe instead of restoring more resources you could reduce their potion cooldown by 8 seconds

THESE ARE JUST IDEAS AND CAN BE CHANGED! Please drop what you find good and bad in the comments below
~VixenHunny

Kalthea · April 13

Be careful about flat numbers when it comes to race choices. That Redguard suggestion for 10% damage is a massive increase, and would instantly make them meta. And as much as I like Argonians, 8s reduction to potion cooldown would be insane for respurce upkeep. But I do feel that they need something, because the only reason to take them anymore is their healing bonus. Everything else is a bit meh.

QB1 · April 14

As someone who plays all wood elves I would love to see their pen increased

VixenHunny · April 14

Kalthea wrote: »

Be careful about flat numbers when it comes to race choices. That Redguard suggestion for 10% damage is a massive increase, and would instantly make them meta. And as much as I like Argonians, 8s reduction to potion cooldown would be insane for respurce upkeep. But I do feel that they need something, because the only reason to take them anymore is their healing bonus. Everything else is a bit meh.

I do feel the raw stat modifier might be a little much. but this is also just ideas to make them more viable rather than how they're played now. redguard has no value to it due to other classes overshadowing them unforunately. we need something to incentivize people to play a certain race. and I do feel races (giving that theyre a core factor) should give more benefits than just a slight stat increase. look at khajiit for example, 14% crit damage is a lot compared to the other ones. definitely not a meta choice unless youre playing in pve but it still is really good. you look at redguard and its quite literally a meme

Adding onto your argonian comment, I agree with this but it also makes it where you get rewarded for good potion upkeep rather than just using a potion and gaining 3k more resources. make them more unique, you know?

Other than those 2 statements I had I agree with your statement!

LukosCreyden · April 14

Alas, average passives is the price us Bosmer must pay for being the objectively best-looking race in the game.

Jestir · April 14

I think the races could use more "standardized" bonus with a "cap" on raw attributes, or just make dark elf not have the most mag and stam :P

The real only outliers for damage passives are the 3 with w/s damage and the khajiit crit damage passive in less organized group. the nords base resistance+ ult gen make it by far the best tank race AND healer race (as long as the ult is actually being used). Breton's double mag sustain passives are incredibly good but sustain is already a joke in this game and thus probably doesn't need touched

So 4 or 5 races that could be brought down a tiny bit, 1 that is fine and the others could use a buff but I would avoid adding anything that effects damage % as they get out of hand very quickly

I think "raw attribute + niche resist + sustain passive" is the easiest but boring way to balance all the races so maybe 2 of those + 1 more niche unique thing (like high elfs reduced damage while channeling) is the best way to get them all in line

Angnos · April 14

Just give races non-combat passives, like faster swimming or leveling certain skill line more quickly. Then add three “combat training” (Like the slottable CP) passives that you can choose from, which do affect combat. This way, you can pick any race you want without worrying about whether your choice is meta.

VixenHunny · April 14

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Alas, average passives is the price us Bosmer must pay for being the objectively best-looking race in the game.

that feeling when bosmer are cute. I love my Wood Elf girlies

VixenHunny · April 14

Jestir wrote: »

I think the races could use more "standardized" bonus with a "cap" on raw attributes, or just make dark elf not have the most mag and stam :P

The real only outliers for damage passives are the 3 with w/s damage and the khajiit crit damage passive in less organized group. the nords base resistance+ ult gen make it by far the best tank race AND healer race (as long as the ult is actually being used). Breton's double mag sustain passives are incredibly good but sustain is already a joke in this game and thus probably doesn't need touched

So 4 or 5 races that could be brought down a tiny bit, 1 that is fine and the others could use a buff but I would avoid adding anything that effects damage % as they get out of hand very quickly

I think "raw attribute + niche resist + sustain passive" is the easiest but boring way to balance all the races so maybe 2 of those + 1 more niche unique thing (like high elfs reduced damage while channeling) is the best way to get them all in line

I feel this is good, however I do feel we need a hybrid race

VixenHunny · April 14

Angnos wrote: »

Just give races non-combat passives, like faster swimming or leveling certain skill line more quickly. Then add three “combat training” (Like the slottable CP) passives that you can choose from, which do affect combat. This way, you can pick any race you want without worrying about whether your choice is meta.

I agree with this kinda but the benefits of being a certain race are too little compared to others.

MincMincMinc · April 20

Last I calculated out numerically the races were fairly even except for the kitty cat crit damage passive. At some point zos didnt seem to know what to do with crit damage, whether it should have been just crit damage or both crit damage and healing. Effectively this means things like khajiit's passive and the shadow mundus are double passives. Which is why they are so prevelant in pvp now that impen was gutted without a replacement.

Crit damage is supposed to numerically compete with Pen(armor), %dmg(%mit), and then CritDmg*Critchance (Impen). Where the other flat stats like WD and Max stat are supposed to be your less damage efficient combo stats that do both damage and healing.......... When you have things like the shadow passive you are matching the pen mundus damage, but then essentially getting a second mundus that does crit healing as well.

lover pen mundus = 2744pen == 4.157%dmg against players or 5.488%dmg against mobs

Shadow mundus = 11% crit damage........assume an average pvp sits around 30%-56 crit chance now. 11%*0.3 and 11%*0.56 == 3.3%dmg and 6.16dmg.........Keep in mind this is just AVERAGE parse damage, in pvp realistically you are getting kills with burst not parses. So its not a 3.3% damage increase....in the moment the enemy is ACTUALLY seeing an 11% damage increase from you.

So more realistically lover is only around a 4% damage increase, where shadow is 11%+11% healing......kinda no brainer choice

VixenHunny · April 20

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Last I calculated out numerically the races were fairly even except for the kitty cat crit damage passive. At some point zos didnt seem to know what to do with crit damage, whether it should have been just crit damage or both crit damage and healing. Effectively this means things like khajiit's passive and the shadow mundus are double passives. Which is why they are so prevelant in pvp now that impen was gutted without a replacement.

Crit damage is supposed to numerically compete with Pen(armor), %dmg(%mit), and then CritDmg*Critchance (Impen). Where the other flat stats like WD and Max stat are supposed to be your less damage efficient combo stats that do both damage and healing.......... When you have things like the shadow passive you are matching the pen mundus damage, but then essentially getting a second mundus that does crit healing as well.
lover pen mundus = 2744pen == 4.157%dmg against players or 5.488%dmg against mobs

Shadow mundus = 11% crit damage........assume an average pvp sits around 30%-56 crit chance now. 11%*0.3 and 11%*0.56 == 3.3%dmg and 6.16dmg.........Keep in mind this is just AVERAGE parse damage, in pvp realistically you are getting kills with burst not parses. So its not a 3.3% damage increase....in the moment the enemy is ACTUALLY seeing an 11% damage increase from you.

So more realistically lover is only around a 4% damage increase, where shadow is 11%+11% healing......kinda no brainer choice

Kitty race is a bit overtuned but I feel like a race overhaul is in need for this game as we move towards a 2.0 based game.

MincMincMinc · April 20

VixenHunny wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Last I calculated out numerically the races were fairly even except for the kitty cat crit damage passive. At some point zos didnt seem to know what to do with crit damage, whether it should have been just crit damage or both crit damage and healing. Effectively this means things like khajiit's passive and the shadow mundus are double passives. Which is why they are so prevelant in pvp now that impen was gutted without a replacement.

Crit damage is supposed to numerically compete with Pen(armor), %dmg(%mit), and then CritDmg*Critchance (Impen). Where the other flat stats like WD and Max stat are supposed to be your less damage efficient combo stats that do both damage and healing.......... When you have things like the shadow passive you are matching the pen mundus damage, but then essentially getting a second mundus that does crit healing as well.
lover pen mundus = 2744pen == 4.157%dmg against players or 5.488%dmg against mobs

Shadow mundus = 11% crit damage........assume an average pvp sits around 30%-56 crit chance now. 11%*0.3 and 11%*0.56 == 3.3%dmg and 6.16dmg.........Keep in mind this is just AVERAGE parse damage, in pvp realistically you are getting kills with burst not parses. So its not a 3.3% damage increase....in the moment the enemy is ACTUALLY seeing an 11% damage increase from you.

So more realistically lover is only around a 4% damage increase, where shadow is 11%+11% healing......kinda no brainer choice

Kitty race is a bit overtuned but I feel like a race overhaul is in need for this game as we move towards a 2.0 based game.

They are getting there for sure, however races were somewhat balanced more recently. Sadly I expect they are going to focus on things like enchants and consumables before we see races touched again. I mean our Food/drink choices are all over the place. Even one gold food to the next just has random values making hard metas. Potions are no better. Enchants and poisons are in the same boat.