I hope Winterhold isn't already destroyed

spartaxoxo · April 10

The College of Winterhold should be something that feels important right now. I hope they don't just copy-paste the ruins. I also hope they remember the librarian is supposed to be alive during this era. I want to see what it was like before the destruction.

TheBardAtTheInn · April 10

It will definitely be intact. The Great Collapse didn't happen until 4E 122, just about 80 years before Skyrim takes place. If/when we do end up going there, it will be the glorious, historied former capital of Skyrim to rival Solitude that it was all the way through the beginning of the 4th Era.

Aliyavana · April 10

I really hope we see Urag

You take your work very seriously.
"Of course I do. If I didn't, most of the books would've been burned to ashes or dissolved to nothing before the Third Era. Mages need to be reminded to be careful around research materials."

DoofusMax · April 10

Aliyavana wrote: »

I really hope we see Urag

I have a sneaking suspicion (perhaps bordering on hopium) that any interaction with Urag, should be be present, would be a story involving getting the College to accept him or at least helping him secure his initial position in the library. He can work his way up to head librarian off-screen.

FlameDark · April 10

ESO takes place 1000 years before the events of Skyrim. So yes the city of Winterhold is currently still flourishing and hasn't been devastated by any natural disasters. It was about 80 years before Skyrim that Winterhold was destroyed. So not even remotely close to the time of ESO.

Aliyavana wrote: »

I really hope we see Urag

Unfortunately Urag was not 1000 (at most 600-800) years old in Skyrim. I know he was old, but not THAT old. So no, we will not be seeing him in ESO. There will be another liberation though I'm sure.

Urag although has been thought to have been born at the earliest the tail end of the second era, we are still in the early/middle of it, so a couple centuries off from seeing him.

JavaRen · April 10

Is there any source for Urag being that old, other than the coment he makes about the age of the collection in the library?

spartaxoxo · April 10

FlameDark wrote: »

ESO takes place 1000 years before the events of Skyrim. So yes the city of Winterhold is currently still flourishing and hasn't been devastated by any natural disasters. It was about 80 years before Skyrim that Winterhold was destroyed. So not even remotely close to the time of ESO.

Aliyavana wrote: »

I really hope we see Urag

Unfortunately Urag was not 1000 (at most 600-800) years old in Skyrim. I know he was old, but not THAT old. So no, we will not be seeing him in ESO. There will be another liberation though I'm sure.

Urag although has been thought to have been born at the earliest the tail end of the second era, we are still in the early/middle of it, so a couple centuries off from seeing him.

I don't remember him stating his age, just that he was in the college in the 2nd era.

Also, I wouldn't put it past them to retcon that timeline.

tomofhyrule · April 10

Aliyavana wrote: »

I really hope we see Urag

Out of curiosity, where is it coming from that Urag is over 1000 years old in Skyrim?

Looking at the dialogue from Skyrim, he says “I try and make sure as much knowledge is available as possible. We've been keeping this collection since the Second Era.” Since the preceding line shows he doesn’t use the royal ‘we,’ we know that he is currently tending the library (“I try…”), but saying that the College as a whole (not only himself) has kept the collection for that length (“We have…”). It implies there were several people throughout history who have tended the library.
Even the UESP lore page mentioning that he is that old offers no references beyond assuming that single quote above means he alone is the “we” referred to, and thus he is the only librarian the College has ever had. I have my doubts about that interpretation (UESP is a fansite and is subject to fallacy if fans misinterpret) as it is reasonable to think he is not any older than a standard mage and simply the latest in a line of College loremasters.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Urag_gro-Shub

Savos Aren does give some dates back to the late Second Era (which is also past ESO’s timeframe), but concedes that it is likely older so the College should exist, but likely be in its infancy. That does lead to a possible series of “go collect some books for us” quests (do I smell the potential for repeatable dailies that send you all over Tamriel?)

Syldras · April 10

Player character: "You take your work very seriously."
Urag gro-Shub: "Of course I do. If I didn't, most of the books would've been burned to ashes or dissolved to nothing before the Third Era."

Source: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Urag_gro-Shub

It's still not a proof, of course. Just because he makes this statement, there's no guarantee that it's the truth.

spartaxoxo · April 12

Syldras wrote: »

Player character: "You take your work very seriously."
Urag gro-Shub: "Of course I do. If I didn't, most of the books would've been burned to ashes or dissolved to nothing before the Third Era."

Source: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Urag_gro-Shub

It's still not a proof, of course. Just because he makes this statement, there's no guarantee that it's the truth.

I hope it's true because it would be the rare opportunity to have a mainline character in ESO. We have some like Divath Fyr and Mannimarco. But, it's always cool when we can get one and it actually make sense.

RebornV3x · April 12

It suppose to be one of the biggest cities in Skyrim about this time the fact that its mostly destroyed in Skyrim the devs can do whatever they want with the layout of the city I really hope we get Winterhold next year

Aliyavana · April 12

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

I really hope we see Urag

Out of curiosity, where is it coming from that Urag is over 1000 years old in Skyrim?

Looking at the dialogue from Skyrim, he says “I try and make sure as much knowledge is available as possible. We've been keeping this collection since the Second Era.” Since the preceding line shows he doesn’t use the royal ‘we,’ we know that he is currently tending the library (“I try…”), but saying that the College as a whole (not only himself) has kept the collection for that length (“We have…”). It implies there were several people throughout history who have tended the library.
Even the UESP lore page mentioning that he is that old offers no references beyond assuming that single quote above means he alone is the “we” referred to, and thus he is the only librarian the College has ever had. I have my doubts about that interpretation (UESP is a fansite and is subject to fallacy if fans misinterpret) as it is reasonable to think he is not any older than a standard mage and simply the latest in a line of College loremasters.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Urag_gro-Shub

Savos Aren does give some dates back to the late Second Era (which is also past ESO’s timeframe), but concedes that it is likely older so the College should exist, but likely be in its infancy. That does lead to a possible series of “go collect some books for us” quests (do I smell the potential for repeatable dailies that send you all over Tamriel?)

from what syldras posted. went ahead and added it to my original quote

DoofusMax wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

I really hope we see Urag

I have a sneaking suspicion (perhaps bordering on hopium) that any interaction with Urag, should be be present, would be a story involving getting the College to accept him or at least helping him secure his initial position in the library. He can work his way up to head librarian off-screen.

would be cool if he became a companion

Syldras · April 12

The question is how likely is it that he's that old? Orcs don't normally have a long lifespan. To prolong his life for 700+ years, he would need to be one of the most powerful wizards. We know he is also a mage, but his main job seems to be librarian.

tomofhyrule · April 12

Aliyavana wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

I really hope we see Urag

Out of curiosity, where is it coming from that Urag is over 1000 years old in Skyrim?

Looking at the dialogue from Skyrim, he says “I try and make sure as much knowledge is available as possible. We've been keeping this collection since the Second Era.” Since the preceding line shows he doesn’t use the royal ‘we,’ we know that he is currently tending the library (“I try…”), but saying that the College as a whole (not only himself) has kept the collection for that length (“We have…”). It implies there were several people throughout history who have tended the library.
Even the UESP lore page mentioning that he is that old offers no references beyond assuming that single quote above means he alone is the “we” referred to, and thus he is the only librarian the College has ever had. I have my doubts about that interpretation (UESP is a fansite and is subject to fallacy if fans misinterpret) as it is reasonable to think he is not any older than a standard mage and simply the latest in a line of College loremasters.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Urag_gro-Shub

Savos Aren does give some dates back to the late Second Era (which is also past ESO’s timeframe), but concedes that it is likely older so the College should exist, but likely be in its infancy. That does lead to a possible series of “go collect some books for us” quests (do I smell the potential for repeatable dailies that send you all over Tamriel?)

from what syldras posted. went ahead and added it to my original quote

I still have my doubts. After all, how many people right now are saying "I've been killing things in Wrothgar for 386 years and I still don't have my Challenge done!" Does that mean that they're 400 years old? Or that ESO is 400 years old? Or that the challenge to do that has existed that long?
...or is it an exaggeration, since we know ESO is only 12 years old and that specific challenge only popped up on monday.

It is entirely possible that that was a misstatement of his, or even an exaggeration. More likely, in fact, since the only characters in the Elder Scrolls series who have extended lifespans have such because of necromancy (see the Telvanni) or vampirism (Serana). If Urag was a Telvanni-esque necromage, why is that not said literally anywhere else?

I do notice some people take a very literal interpretation of every single thing said or written in the game and completely disregard the fact that people could be stretching the truth or outright lying. Todd Howard himself has even come out to say that the lore is not hard and fast and is tainted by how the characters present it.

spartaxoxo · April 12

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

I really hope we see Urag

Out of curiosity, where is it coming from that Urag is over 1000 years old in Skyrim?

Looking at the dialogue from Skyrim, he says “I try and make sure as much knowledge is available as possible. We've been keeping this collection since the Second Era.” Since the preceding line shows he doesn’t use the royal ‘we,’ we know that he is currently tending the library (“I try…”), but saying that the College as a whole (not only himself) has kept the collection for that length (“We have…”). It implies there were several people throughout history who have tended the library.
Even the UESP lore page mentioning that he is that old offers no references beyond assuming that single quote above means he alone is the “we” referred to, and thus he is the only librarian the College has ever had. I have my doubts about that interpretation (UESP is a fansite and is subject to fallacy if fans misinterpret) as it is reasonable to think he is not any older than a standard mage and simply the latest in a line of College loremasters.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Urag_gro-Shub

Savos Aren does give some dates back to the late Second Era (which is also past ESO’s timeframe), but concedes that it is likely older so the College should exist, but likely be in its infancy. That does lead to a possible series of “go collect some books for us” quests (do I smell the potential for repeatable dailies that send you all over Tamriel?)

from what syldras posted. went ahead and added it to my original quote

I still have my doubts. After all, how many people right now are saying "I've been killing things in Wrothgar for 386 years and I still don't have my Challenge done!" Does that mean that they're 400 years old? Or that ESO is 400 years old? Or that the challenge to do that has existed that long?
...or is it an exaggeration, since we know ESO is only 12 years old and that specific challenge only popped up on monday.

It is entirely possible that that was a misstatement of his, or even an exaggeration. More likely, in fact, since the only characters in the Elder Scrolls series who have extended lifespans have such because of necromancy (see the Telvanni) or vampirism (Serana). If Urag was a Telvanni-esque necromage, why is that not said literally anywhere else?

I do notice some people take a very literal interpretation of every single thing said or written in the game and completely disregard the fact that people could be stretching the truth or outright lying. Todd Howard himself has even come out to say that the lore is not hard and fast and is tainted by how the characters present it.

Divath Fyr don't use necromancy and neither do the Psijic Order, but both are very long lived.

Syldras wrote: »

The question is how likely is it that he's that old? Orcs don't normally have a long lifespan. To prolong his life for 700+ years, he would need to be one of the most powerful wizards. We know he is also a mage, but his main job seems to be librarian.

Eh. I wouldn't past them to have someone who is quietly one of their strongest mages as the one also protecting their most powerful books.

tomofhyrule · April 12

spartaxoxo wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

I really hope we see Urag

Out of curiosity, where is it coming from that Urag is over 1000 years old in Skyrim?

Looking at the dialogue from Skyrim, he says “I try and make sure as much knowledge is available as possible. We've been keeping this collection since the Second Era.” Since the preceding line shows he doesn’t use the royal ‘we,’ we know that he is currently tending the library (“I try…”), but saying that the College as a whole (not only himself) has kept the collection for that length (“We have…”). It implies there were several people throughout history who have tended the library.
Even the UESP lore page mentioning that he is that old offers no references beyond assuming that single quote above means he alone is the “we” referred to, and thus he is the only librarian the College has ever had. I have my doubts about that interpretation (UESP is a fansite and is subject to fallacy if fans misinterpret) as it is reasonable to think he is not any older than a standard mage and simply the latest in a line of College loremasters.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Urag_gro-Shub

Savos Aren does give some dates back to the late Second Era (which is also past ESO’s timeframe), but concedes that it is likely older so the College should exist, but likely be in its infancy. That does lead to a possible series of “go collect some books for us” quests (do I smell the potential for repeatable dailies that send you all over Tamriel?)

from what syldras posted. went ahead and added it to my original quote

I still have my doubts. After all, how many people right now are saying "I've been killing things in Wrothgar for 386 years and I still don't have my Challenge done!" Does that mean that they're 400 years old? Or that ESO is 400 years old? Or that the challenge to do that has existed that long?
...or is it an exaggeration, since we know ESO is only 12 years old and that specific challenge only popped up on monday.

It is entirely possible that that was a misstatement of his, or even an exaggeration. More likely, in fact, since the only characters in the Elder Scrolls series who have extended lifespans have such because of necromancy (see the Telvanni) or vampirism (Serana). If Urag was a Telvanni-esque necromage, why is that not said literally anywhere else?

I do notice some people take a very literal interpretation of every single thing said or written in the game and completely disregard the fact that people could be stretching the truth or outright lying. Todd Howard himself has even come out to say that the lore is not hard and fast and is tainted by how the characters present it.

Divath Fyr don't use necromancy and neither do the Psijic Order, but both are very long lived.

Syldras wrote: »

The question is how likely is it that he's that old? Orcs don't normally have a long lifespan. To prolong his life for 700+ years, he would need to be one of the most powerful wizards. We know he is also a mage, but his main job seems to be librarian.

Eh. I wouldn't past them to have someone who is quietly one of their strongest mages as the one also protecting their most powerful books.

And yet stories abound about the power of those mages. They have written so many stories. We have heard of them throughout all of history.

And then there's a random Orcish librarian.

Again: Occam's razor.
Does it make more sense for there to be a single Orcish mage (Orcs are not well known for being incredible mages, so that would be a story in itself) in a Skyrim college (Orcs in Skyrim have a history of conflict that stretches back to the first era, so there's got to be a story about him being accepted by ancient Nords) who is that long-lived (every long-lived character has had notable references in several areas)?
Or does it make more sense that he exaggerated for that one single dialogue line?

spartaxoxo · April 12

tomofhyrule wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

I really hope we see Urag

Out of curiosity, where is it coming from that Urag is over 1000 years old in Skyrim?

Looking at the dialogue from Skyrim, he says “I try and make sure as much knowledge is available as possible. We've been keeping this collection since the Second Era.” Since the preceding line shows he doesn’t use the royal ‘we,’ we know that he is currently tending the library (“I try…”), but saying that the College as a whole (not only himself) has kept the collection for that length (“We have…”). It implies there were several people throughout history who have tended the library.
Even the UESP lore page mentioning that he is that old offers no references beyond assuming that single quote above means he alone is the “we” referred to, and thus he is the only librarian the College has ever had. I have my doubts about that interpretation (UESP is a fansite and is subject to fallacy if fans misinterpret) as it is reasonable to think he is not any older than a standard mage and simply the latest in a line of College loremasters.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Urag_gro-Shub

Savos Aren does give some dates back to the late Second Era (which is also past ESO’s timeframe), but concedes that it is likely older so the College should exist, but likely be in its infancy. That does lead to a possible series of “go collect some books for us” quests (do I smell the potential for repeatable dailies that send you all over Tamriel?)

from what syldras posted. went ahead and added it to my original quote

I still have my doubts. After all, how many people right now are saying "I've been killing things in Wrothgar for 386 years and I still don't have my Challenge done!" Does that mean that they're 400 years old? Or that ESO is 400 years old? Or that the challenge to do that has existed that long?
...or is it an exaggeration, since we know ESO is only 12 years old and that specific challenge only popped up on monday.

It is entirely possible that that was a misstatement of his, or even an exaggeration. More likely, in fact, since the only characters in the Elder Scrolls series who have extended lifespans have such because of necromancy (see the Telvanni) or vampirism (Serana). If Urag was a Telvanni-esque necromage, why is that not said literally anywhere else?

I do notice some people take a very literal interpretation of every single thing said or written in the game and completely disregard the fact that people could be stretching the truth or outright lying. Todd Howard himself has even come out to say that the lore is not hard and fast and is tainted by how the characters present it.

Divath Fyr don't use necromancy and neither do the Psijic Order, but both are very long lived.

Syldras wrote: »

The question is how likely is it that he's that old? Orcs don't normally have a long lifespan. To prolong his life for 700+ years, he would need to be one of the most powerful wizards. We know he is also a mage, but his main job seems to be librarian.

Eh. I wouldn't past them to have someone who is quietly one of their strongest mages as the one also protecting their most powerful books.

And yet stories abound about the power of those mages. They have written so many stories. We have heard of them throughout all of history.

And then there's a random Orcish librarian.

Again: Occam's razor.
Does it make more sense for there to be a single Orcish mage (Orcs are not well known for being incredible mages, so that would be a story in itself) in a Skyrim college (Orcs in Skyrim have a history of conflict that stretches back to the first era, so there's got to be a story about him being accepted by ancient Nords) who is that long-lived (every long-lived character has had notable references in several areas)?
Or does it make more sense that he exaggerated for that one single dialogue line?

I mean, he's a librarian. He keeps the books. So, he wouldn't be in them. There's no real reason for him to say that line if there's not truth to it at all. He's clearly not all that impressed with the Dragonborn. Narratively, it also makes more sense to be true because having him present a completely meaningless falsehood to the player doesn't serve as well deepning the mystery around the college.

Syldras · April 12

I've always perceived it as boasting. Or an old man making a joke.