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The single best way to replace light attack weaving
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Alp✭✭✭✭✭randconfig wrote: »I think adding the mod Combat Metronome to the game in some simple form is all they should do. Light attack weaving is fun and should stay.
I would rather that it shows in the animation when the best time to attack is. The devs seem to agree with this aggressively so as well with how rarely they add new UI elements. They would rather have our feet glow green after roll dodging than add an effect to the stamina bar, or actually showing crux in a way that functions in first person instead of floating around the character.
Usually I think they go a bit too far (like the giant shield indicating that I'm blocking. I am aware I'm blocking, since I'm the one holding down the block button.) but in this case I think I would agree that it should be integrated into the combat I'm seeing on the screen and not as a UI element.Edited by Alp on April 9, 2026 5:03AM𝙃𝙋 🖤🖤🖤🤍🤍🤍🤍🤍🤍🤍0 -
DestroyerPewnack✭✭✭✭✭The alternative already exists in the game. Use Velothi, and your light attack damage becomes irrelevant. And if you use beam/flame breath, you get even less action per second required from you. You just need to throw in a light attack once every 9 seconds to maintain ult regen. And if that's too much, you can use a heavy attack build and forget all about light attacking. I'm all for improving the combat, but this is just dumbing down the game to please the casual players, who already get their way 99% of the time. Overland difficulty, Oakensoul, heavy attack builds, scribing, subclassing, etc, etc. Leave light attack weaving as it is. We are happy with it.2 -
karthrag_inak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭if only there were some gameplay alternative that could serve folks who were not so interested in weaving. Perhaps this could be accomplished via a mythic - something fhat made light attacks less important while providing a reasonable alternative damage source.
if only....PC-NA : 19 Khajiit and 1 Fishy-cat with fluffy delusions. cp3600
GM of Imperial Gold Reserve trading guild (started in 2017) since 2/2022
Come visit Karth's Glitter Box, Khajiit's home. Fully stocked guild hall done in sleek Khajiit stylings, with Grand Master Stations, Transmute, Scribing, Trial Dummies, etc. Also has 2 full bowling alleys, nightclub, and floating maze over Wrothgar.(Pariah's Pinacle)
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Blood_again✭✭✭✭✭
✭I want to preface by saying that animation cancelling started off...
The single best way to replace light attack weaving would be...
The animation canceling is more complex than just light attack weaving.
That's why implementing your system would give experienced players a double advantage over newcomers.
Honestly, I doubt it is the outcome you're fighting for.
The Best Faction you might ever choose on the Night Market. Join The Thousand Eyes!2 -
Thumbless_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thumbless_Bot wrote: »This post is answering a question that doesnt need to be answered.
It's the equivalent of saying what is the best way to mow a sidewalk.
What makes weaving good design, rather than just something players adapted to?
Same thing that makes a sidewalk a good design.1 -
Alp✭✭✭✭✭Imagine the pure vitriol of the hardcore community if animation cancelling was only possible with a mythic. Would make sense. Hardcore players have no problem getting mythics.please don't hurt me.𝙃𝙋 🖤🖤🖤🤍🤍🤍🤍🤍🤍🤍0
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Nyseto✭✭✭Thumbless_Bot wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »This post is answering a question that doesnt need to be answered.
It's the equivalent of saying what is the best way to mow a sidewalk.
What makes weaving good design, rather than just something players adapted to?
Same thing that makes a sidewalk a good design.
Would you not want new players knowing how combat works sooner rather than finding out about an unintended hidden bug like light attack weaving many eons later?1 -
Nyseto✭✭✭karthrag_inak wrote: »if only there were some gameplay alternative that could serve folks who were not so interested in weaving. Perhaps this could be accomplished via a mythic - something fhat made light attacks less important while providing a reasonable alternative damage source.
if only....
Velothi treats the symptom (some players can skip weaving) but leaves the core hidden, punishing system intact. Velothi is a workaround, not a redesign.1 -
HatchetHaro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've written a bit ago about this whole "animation cancelling" thing, and I don't feel like repeating it, so I'll just quote it here.
Point is, animation-cancelling is inherent to video games, "unintended bug" or not.HatchetHaro wrote: »I genuinely hate how people keep throwing around this "animation cancelling" buzzword and calling it an exploit of some sort without understanding what "animation cancelling" actually means.
Almost all combat animations in any game have cancel-able components. There's the wind-up (anticipation - usually short), the action (when the damage happens), and the wind-down (the animation that's usually cancelled). If the player has to wait for the wind-down animation to complete before they can cast another combat action (aka no animation cancelling), that combat would then feel slow and clunky. Animation-cancelling is the very core of how combo systems work in many video games - they cancel the wind-down animations from each attack so they flow into the other combo animations.
Same goes for ESO - being able to attack between abilities is just part of its "combo system", and at just 2 combat actions per second, it's not even unrealistic.
Now, OP, your idea is really cool; I genuinely like it.
However, you're proposing it to fix a system that isn't inherently broken. The new player experience in ESO is built around it being more akin to Skyrim Online, where players can quest in overland just light and heavy-attacking away; the whole concept of using skills, and then weaving attacks between skills, is something that would come naturally to new players as they continue playing the game and tackling harder content like public dungeons and normal dungeons.
I would very much like to tackle this point in particular.Instead of relying on animation canceling and inserting light attacks between every skill, players would focus on hitting these timing windows to “chain” abilities together efficiently, preserving the high skill ceiling while making the system more intuitive, consistent across different ping conditions, and free from addon dependence.
Intuitivity: Since light-attacking is already at the very core of beginner ESO gameplay, and that a natural progression of skill would be players using skills in between light attacks, I would argue that the concept of weaving light attacks in between abilities isn't unintuitive at all.
Latency: Whether or not that system would be "consistent across different ping conditions" is actually entirely dependent on how that combat system is built in relation to its networking structure (generally client-auth inputs, server-auth actions (including predictions and validation)). The difference between timing abilities and weaving attacks between abilities has no bearing on the feeling of combat latency. Just because there is a noticeable difference in the current implementation (yes, I've played both in the US with 75ms ping and at home with 235ms ping) does not mean that it is a flaw with the design; merely implementation.
Addons: Weaving is a skill that you master through practice. Addons may serve as an aid, but are wholly unnecessary; I have never used any addon to train my weaving speed, and I currently have all trial trifectas. Besides, this is also a non-argument: with your new system, addons will be developed or modified to show optimal skill timings anyways, so ultimately, your system would just trigger the same demand for equivalent functionality.
This is technically true, but I would like to point out some nuances with this line of logic.Light attack weaving demands a constant extra input between nearly every ability, which creates a high APM requirement that’s physically repetitive and punishing if you fall out of rhythm.
1. Abilities and light attacks are on entirely different inputs. For M+KB, by default, abilities are on your left hand, and attacks are on your right hand. Having one input-per-second on each of your hands really isn't much of an accessibility dip from having one input-per-second on just one hand. Gamepads are a bit different, since Ability 5 is on the Right Shoulder Button by default, but I believe gamepad players generally just hit them with separate index and middle fingers, or just remap them to separate attacks and abilities between left and right hands. Your combat system proposal would still demand the same physical repetitiveness, just with one fewer involved digit.
2. Accessibility in video games just dictates what is needed to be viable, not optimal. Sometimes, being optimal in games just require a higher-level of APM than certain disabilities can handle, and you can't change that. The best that game developers can do is offer alternatives viable enough to complete most content; heavy-attack builds already exist for that purpose.
Again, your proposal is really cool; I dig it. It's just that your reasoning for why it is better than the current system doesn't really hold much water.Edited by HatchetHaro on April 9, 2026 6:17PM2 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭Light attack weaving is not difficult, takes about ten seconds to practice, and if you do not want to do it there are builds for that. This horse has been beaten, killed, resurrected, incinerated, sent to the 9 hells, reincarnated and shot into the sun.
It will not change, most people want it and enjoy it, like I do. If I wanted what you are describing, I would simply play another game.4 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Since there’s word of reworking combat this year:
I want to preface by saying that animation cancelling started off as an unintended bug that was later embraced. Ever since, ZOS has tried to build around this bug which is more akin to treating the symptom rather than the cause. It’s time we move past light attack weaving especially since more players are going to be coming to ESO as a result of all the great changes to come. Who would not want those new players to know what's going on in combat sooner rather than discovering light attack weaving many eons later?
The single best way to replace light attack weaving would be to introduce a built-in timed input system tied directly to abilities, where each skill creates a short, visible timing window that rewards precise follow-up inputs with bonus damage, faster animations, or resource return. Instead of relying on animation canceling and inserting light attacks between every skill, players would focus on hitting these timing windows to “chain” abilities together efficiently, preserving the high skill ceiling while making the system more intuitive, consistent across different ping conditions, and free from addon dependence. This approach keeps the core idea of rewarding rhythm and mastery but turns it into something intentional and readable, rather than a hidden mechanic that players have to learn indirectly.
How animation cancelling started really shouldn't be considered for the conversation. All that should be considered is it good for combat dynamics or not. Almost every combat guide available includes animation cancelling and light weaving. If a new player joins a guild with the intent of doing dungeons or trials where those strategies matter it is explained usually fairly early in their beginning to participate. So new players being unaware is also not an issue when discussing this idea. Again is it good for combat dynamics or not?
With animation cancelling and weaving for the most part your attack rotation timing can stay consistent even when switching out some skills. With your idea I do not see this being the case. You change one ability and the timing of the entire chain can change. Instead of muscle memory players would need to depend on visual feedback from the game. That can get messy when there is lag and there is often lag. You say it would be more consistent across different ping conditions but I believe the opposite. The game isn't always seeing you where you are seeing you so depending on hitting the next skill just as an animation ends gets unreliable. A good rotation becomes less about a good rhythm and more about quick reactions to visual stimulus from the game.
You haven't offered why animation cancelling and weaving is bad for combat nor any real idea on why this would be better only different.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."3 -
Thumbless_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thumbless_Bot wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »This post is answering a question that doesnt need to be answered.
It's the equivalent of saying what is the best way to mow a sidewalk.
What makes weaving good design, rather than just something players adapted to?
Same thing that makes a sidewalk a good design.
Would you not want new players knowing how combat works sooner rather than finding out about an unintended hidden bug like light attack weaving many eons later?
Sooner or later everyone who uses sidewalks has to learn how to walk.
Discovering the game, any game, is half the fun. This isnt Pong.1 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thumbless_Bot wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »This post is answering a question that doesnt need to be answered.
It's the equivalent of saying what is the best way to mow a sidewalk.
What makes weaving good design, rather than just something players adapted to?
Same thing that makes a sidewalk a good design.
Would you not want new players knowing how combat works sooner rather than finding out about an unintended hidden bug like light attack weaving many eons later?
When this game first came out, I ran a bow build and learned to weave light attacks between snipes within 2 hours. It does not take eons.0 -
Freelancer_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Personally, I'd suggest adding a buff that allows players to weave and otherwise disabling it.
Players that like weaving can use item sets/skills that provide the buff.
Players that don't like weaving can avoid item sets/skills that provide the buff.
Right now, abilities and items are balanced frequently on the assumption that people will be weaving.
As a result, for players that aren't weaving many of the abilities/items are not of even value.
For example, Velothi has roughly your usual ~ 2.3 set bonus value that Mythics have by offering Minor Force + Pen. It then has a kiss/curse of having + 15% damage to monsters and a -99% Light and Heavy Attack damage. The thing is, if someone isn't weaving the -99% Light/Heavy Attack damage frequently is not costing them all that much leaving the Mythic in a state where it easily overpowers other Mythic items.
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Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭Freelancer_ESO wrote: »Personally, I'd suggest adding a buff that allows players to weave and otherwise disabling it.
Players that like weaving can use item sets/skills that provide the buff.
Players that don't like weaving can avoid item sets/skills that provide the buff.
Right now, abilities and items are balanced frequently on the assumption that people will be weaving.
As a result, for players that aren't weaving many of the abilities/items are not of even value.
For example, Velothi has roughly your usual ~ 2.3 set bonus value that Mythics have by offering Minor Force + Pen. It then has a kiss/curse of having + 15% damage to monsters and a -99% Light and Heavy Attack damage. The thing is, if someone isn't weaving the -99% Light/Heavy Attack damage frequently is not costing them all that much leaving the Mythic in a state where it easily overpowers other Mythic items.
If you do not use a mechanic of the game, then you should not perform on equal footing as someone that does use that mechanic, unless you make sacrifices. The devs have embraced weaving, this horse needs to be left alone.1 -
Mavor✭✭✭Ive watched a guild of several hundred people fade and disappear - over basically the LA weaving combat thing. A LOT of people do not like it.
ESO's combat already isnt all that popular - and adding a bug-like canceling mechanic on top, that requires add-ons and practiced skill to utilize - further pushes it away from all but the most dedicated.
I know its been around for a long time now - but I fully believe they'd be doing the game an overall service by either removing it or rendering it a more specialized part of combat - instead of one that is considered a staple.
Have some sets or mythics that rewards weaving - something like that is fine - but it shouldn't be a bread and butter component of combat. In my opinion, it was a mistake for them to ever embrace it like they did.Edited by Mavor on April 12, 2026 11:58PM1
