Miss the chapters. Miss how the game used to be each year, and it kept me subscribing to ESO Plus.

I understand they felt the game needed a refresher, but the direction they are going in just isn't doing it for me. Still have a bad taste about the whole Solstice mess.

At least it gave me the push to stop subscribing and to put more time into other games. That is a good thing.

im fine with no full blown new zone this year in all honesty

You guys don't miss chapters, you miss new zones (I do too) but the the game is a huge boat and it takes time to change direction, they are both revisiting outdated parts of the game and providing new content, I think new zones will happen less often but with better quality and with less predictable content.

Also the season / Tamriel Tomes system is just starting, they will improve it with time.

Destai wrote: »

Chapters were nice because you knew roughly what you were getting. A new zone with the same checklist and some small features. While that did get stale, it set player expectations. We didn't need to be constantly informed, checking roadmaps and other official communications, to know when XYZ feature is coming out.

Now that we're in a seasonal model - the only takeaway I want is more packaging. So for this season, the features are being spread out in a confusing way. For instance, the art for the Season is focused around the Night Market, which isn't out yet. It's the flagship feature of the reason - right? - and didn't launch with the season opening. That's an odd choice.

There's a balance to be had and I think they're still figuring that out in yet another transition year. Season flagships should launch with the season. I'm fine with the class reworks releasing independently of that.

Exactly. By saying you are okay with not getting chapters you (not you personally but the hypothetical “you”) are saying I’m okay with getting less. Less is not very quantifiable, it could be slightly less or it could be significantly less. The delayed timing also makes it feel worse right now. This game has been traveling down a rocky road for the last year or more, it really needs to get back onto smooth payment quickly.

The changes already are making the game feel less like Elder Scrolls to me. I hope they can do something to correct that. I used to spend a few minutes to crank out a few Endeavors and then go do something I want to do, now I look at this long chore list (kill 1000 enemies in 3 zones is just one of them) and think wow, I’d like to go do this other thing but I need to get started on these chores.

I wonder how they have calculated their income stream from this. Apart from ESO+ and the Buy to Play, their main income was from people buying the DLC, either the standard or the deluxe. They could work out the expected sales of these products based on previous experience and player numbers, and possibly the state of the global economy but especially in the US and the EU.

Now they are in unknown territory. There are no more DLCs, no more failed Content Pass. They seem to be relying on people buying premium tome caches (unless I've missed something). These caches unlock extra tome rewards that you can then earn tome points to purchase.

Here is the kicker, previously, in order to play a new zone with your guild mates or even solo you MUST have bought the DLC. This was a massive incentive to shell out cash when you might not have really wanted to. Now, you don't have to pay anything; everything you purchase from the tome store is a cosmetic item of some sort that has exactly zero relevance to gameplay abilities or locations you can visit. It would be possible for a player to never spend a single tome point and still enjoy the game everywhere with their guild mates; the incentive to purchase has gone.

The average player age in this game is around 35-55 years. Based on plenty of previous polls, I myself am 61. People in these age groups are not so attracted to shinys as younger people in my experience. This is not Fortnite. Maybe I'm reading it all wrong, but if they end up going back to Chapters in the next year or two, then we'll at least know why.

licenturion wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

I wonder how they have calculated their income stream from this. Apart from ESO+ and the Buy to Play, their main income was from people buying the DLC, either the standard or the deluxe. They could work out the expected sales of these products based on previous experience and player numbers, and possibly the state of the global economy but especially in the US and the EU.

Now they are in unknown territory. There are no more DLCs, no more failed Content Pass. They seem to be relying on people buying premium tome caches (unless I've missed something). These caches unlock extra tome rewards that you can then earn tome points to purchase.

I wonder about this too. I always bought the pre-order deluxe version right after the year reveal stream every year and I usually play daily. I don't buy cosmetics (I have tons from chapters and events), I don't buy crates (I don't do gambling) and I don't buy ESO+ (I don't do game subscriptions). I also bought the dungeons which was usually 30 euro's each year.

So now with the battlepass tomes, I go from spending 100 euros each year to 0 euros for this game forward because all the actual content will be free and I don't need more cosmetic stuff. I use my ESO money on other games and their DLC now because if you have all the zones and dungeons like I do, ESO is now basically a free to play game.

I also didn't see a lot of people with the seasonal cosmetics/personality/weapons/mounts equipped so far. So I am wondering how well this is going from a financial standpoint. Usually the first season sells the most because it is new and people surf the hype wave. Time will tell... One thing is for sure, they can't switch monetisation model for a third time next year, because people seem already super confused this year.

Thanks for basically confirming exactly what I felt was now happening. I mean the devs have the metrics and must have crunched the numbers, so surely they can't have made such a monumental error? Time will very quickly tell I fear!

I'm in pain over these Tome challenges. I keep getting collect enchanting mats, clothing mats or kill something numerous times. I'm about out of rerolls.

I don't think we will ever go back to Chapters. This might be it for the long haul.

I still wonder if it's really that they think cosmetics sell better, or if the main reason for not producing chapters anymore is just that they don't have the capacities for it anymore (at least right now). So perhaps smaller bits of story content and smaller maps/dungeons (like the Night Market or the Sages Vault) is the only thing they can still do. Now, would those be monetizeable? Would enough people buy them seperately? Would they be willing to spend money for one questline taking place in one old zone, or throughout several old zones? Or for the Sages Vault, despite not knowing beforehand how playing it will even be like, and if they'd find fun? I have my doubts. So what's left that can be sold if not cosmetics (which I'm not sure if it will be a success either)?

The main problem I see with chapters - not chapters as a release format in general, but what we actually got in ESO - is that there had been a downwards tendency for years. More and more people disliked them. Many lore people became fed up with lore mistakes and left over the years. Even many people who just enjoy the typical TES-style stories while not being lore experts, grew dissatisfied with the writing over the years and left. The typical points of criticism: It became formulaic. Characters felt more clichéd. Themes became more shallow. Themes also became more generic instead of really making something of TES' vast background lore and the peculiarities of its fictional cultures. Real emotional (and often tragic) situations didn't come up as often anymore. No moral dilemmas. And then lately often a certain lecturing, moral tone - despite one big aspect of TES writing having always been that it does not moralize, but portrays different fictional cultures or groups of people with their specific way of thinking and living, so the player could come to their own conclusions, and on top of that could freely choose to roleplay a person from this fictional world, how ever they imagined them to be. I think this had always been one of TES' strong points and a feature that many people loved about TES: You could experience that fictional world and their way of living, without someone blatantly shoehorning in real world moral statements all the time.

The problem now really is that many people of the target group for chapter content have already left over the years, and that an opinion about ESO's current writing has formed. If someone has already left, it might be difficult to bring them back. Also, many already have a negative opinion about the writing, so how to convince them to give it another try if it really improves one day? Even if there'll ever be a great chapter again, it will be difficult to reach many people with that info, I'm afraid. Unless it's really outstanding, so those people see lots of praise online, and might get curious to have a look.

Syldras wrote: »

I still wonder if it's really that they think cosmetics sell better, or if the main reason for not producing chapters anymore is just that they don't have the capacities for it anymore (at least right now). So perhaps smaller bits of story content and smaller maps/dungeons (like the Night Market or the Sages Vault) is the only thing they can still do. Now, would those be monetizeable? Would enough people buy them seperately?

I've always been under the impression that cosmetics and other microtransactions is what truly financially sustains them. I think they're developing what they can with the headcount and skill sets they have. There's been a lot of disruption over the years, so it seems like they're exploring ways to restabilize in a way that makes sense for them now. I truly wish them the best in this.

As for an à la carte approach to content - I don't know that I'd buy a single dungeon. I don't think I bought many dungeons themselves, especially as a subscriber. For things like Night Market and Sages Vault, I wouldn't buy them by themselves. Especially since the rewards haven't been telegraphed, and Night Market is a temporary feature. Just not worth the money to me. I want substantial permanent content.

Syldras wrote: »

Would they be willing to spend money for one questline taking place in one old zone, or throughout several old zones? Or for the Sages Vault, despite not knowing beforehand how playing it will even be like, and if they'd find fun? I have my doubts. So what's left that can be sold if not cosmetics (which I'm not sure if it will be a success either)?

Personally, I'd never buy just a questline. The only exception is if there's some account-wide benefit like we see with companions or cool cosmetics. But just for story, absolutely not.

Syldras wrote: »

The main problem I see with chapters - not chapters as a release format in general, but what we actually got in ESO - is that there had been a downwards tendency for years. More and more people disliked them. Many lore people became fed up with lore mistakes and left over the years.

I just click through the stories at this point. It's been too long since there's been a compelling story, IMO. I just accept the writing is what it is, and rush through it. It minimizes the feeling of the quality issues.

For me, the most compelling features aren't story related. They're either new gameplay systems or cosmetics. Chapters used to have those as features, so that'd compel me to buy them. They're finding new ways to deliver those needs and that's great. I'm happy they're working towards a model where players aren't divided by ownership.

Syldras wrote: »

The problem now really is that many people of the target group for chapter content have already left over the years, and that an opinion about ESO's current writing has formed. If someone has already left, it might be difficult to bring them back. Also, many already have a negative opinion about the writing, so how to convince them to give it another try if it really improves one day? Even if there'll ever be a great chapter again, it will be difficult to reach many people with that info, I'm afraid. Unless it's really outstanding, so those people see lots of praise online, and might get curious to have a look.

The only way I'd be truly interested in stories is if they were branching stories with cosmetic rewards. There's very little replay value from a story perspective. If I could play through them and experience endings or even just paths, that would be great. But, again, it has to be rewarding. Just hearing dialogue isn't rewarding in a game where fashion is the endgame. I want to work towards something.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

We know that the only permanent content we're getting in 2026 is a single trial and two stories, one of which features the most divisive character in the franchise's history. Everything else is set to evaporate once its respective event is done, and the other things that could draw people in are not dropping in 2026 at all.

They probably didn't expect the backlash or players leaving that actually like new zones or questing. In the reveal stream there was barely any mention of a zone of new stories. Yet one or two days later ZOS starting suddenly putting a very heavy focus on "zones are still coming/we love to tell new stories". Every stream they had since then says multiple times "new zone/new stories coming". This is bizarre since a new zone is probably at least 1 year away. They are probably scared that people who are just here for zones/dungeons/quests are going to play other games for a whole game and never coming back.

As for storytelling; what annoyed me most the last chapters is that the quests are basically:
- Talk for 10 minutes what we are going to do
- Do 3 minutes of gameplay and exploration
- Hey, let's halt everything, even though the world is ending, and let's discuss what we already talked about for the past 10 minutes and what we just did in the previous room.
- Interesting boss fight with new mechanics in a very epic cool looking room or arena that lasts 35 seconds
- Oh no, there is more to the plot. Let's discuss for 10 minutes how we feel about it and group up with the rest of our merry band for this expansion and talk 10 minutes more with every member.
- Repeat this 3 times...the end

I wish they did chapters and main quests like they do dungeons and trials where the story happens during gameplay with NPC's tagging along and assisting me, doing dialog during fights and make quests way longer and more action oriented instead of an audio podcast. The tech is clearly there for years, why never use it...

Giaur wrote: »

In my opinion, Bethesda sold the soul of ESO with the tomes. With this battlepass ESO ist just another grinder with no own soul!
The daily and weekly grind for the tomes is boring as hell!
I already miss the questing of the chapters and not being forced to harvest 6 times 15 ore, kill 1.000 foes for stupid battlepass points.

just my cent

But you were doing the grind anyway. The tomes just allow you take a little longer, and let you pick rewards rather than being locked into what ESO wants to give you that day.

licenturion wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

We know that the only permanent content we're getting in 2026 is a single trial and two stories, one of which features the most divisive character in the franchise's history. Everything else is set to evaporate once its respective event is done, and the other things that could draw people in are not dropping in 2026 at all.

As for storytelling; what annoyed me most the last chapters is that the quests are basically:
- Talk for 10 minutes what we are going to do
- Do 3 minutes of gameplay and exploration
- Hey, let's halt everything, even though the world is ending, and let's discuss what we already talked about for the past 10 minutes and what we just did in the previous room.
- Interesting boss fight with new mechanics in a very epic cool looking room or arena that lasts 35 seconds
- Oh no, there is more to the plot. Let's discuss for 10 minutes how we feel about it and group up with the rest of our merry band for this expansion and talk 10 minutes more with every member.
- Repeat this 3 times...the end

This is definitely part if it; I’d also add in the “let’s shoehorn in a corporately-designed fan-favorite with half a personality trait as your buddy the whole time, and now you can flirt with them!” And the “hey, Marvel has the best sense of humor, let’s go overboard on that!”

I loved Wrothgar. Yes, it was formulaic, but I’d honestly have been furious if it didn’t go the way it was going. It was a great story that was exactly in line with Orcish culture. Morrowind through Summerset was also great, and then…
I wanted to love Elsweyr so much, because I really like the dragon stuff, but the characters were just so unappealing to me. Greymoor again was because I liked Skyrim, but the vampire stuff did nothing for me. But after that…

It’s also interesting you mention the boss fights, because they have been getting so much better and more fun. But that also brings up the fact that those fights are a one-tome thing. After all, let’s see what I need to do to replay the Ithelia fight:

• Make a new character
• Go get enough skill points to build the way I want
• Get through the entire Necrom main quest
• Get through the entire West Weald main quest
• Get through the entire epilogue
• Finally get to the fight and it’s over in two minutes

That also really makes it less interesting to redo any of these stories since the leadup is so unfun. We hear people saying that they like to redo Wrothgar on an Orc to see how the story changes, or redo Summerset on an Altmer… but I really don’t think I’ve heard anyone say “I want to run the High Isle story on multiple characters!”

It comes back to the question of if it’s worth it to make more repeatable content or one-time-only stuff. And stories have really moved to a one-and-done thing for most people, especially since there really is no difference based on choices and race/class so the only real choice we make is “do I pick the flirty dialogue option with the fan-favorite or not.”

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Giaur wrote: »

In my opinion, Bethesda sold the soul of ESO with the tomes. With this battlepass ESO ist just another grinder with no own soul!
The daily and weekly grind for the tomes is boring as hell!
I already miss the questing of the chapters and not being forced to harvest 6 times 15 ore, kill 1.000 foes for stupid battlepass points.

just my cent

Nobody is forcing you to do anything. Here's a radical idea, just play what you want, when you want. Don't let FOMO govern your life.

When people say this, it's ignoring that this is what the Devs are spending a lot of effort on now. Chores and related cosmetics. And they will do so every quarter as the focus will be on creating cosmetics to put into tomes. To say just ignore tomes...well, you get nothing at the moment at all to enjoy.

So I can see people concerned.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

...
It comes back to the question of if it’s worth it to make more repeatable content or one-time-only stuff. And stories have really moved to a one-and-done thing for most people, especially since there really is no difference based on choices and race/class so the only real choice we make is “do I pick the flirty dialogue option with the fan-favorite or not.”
...

I agree with everything you said in your post.

I also would love to have the option to just replay quests or entire zones without the need to make, level and gear a new character.