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DK is extremely, ludicrously, overpowered in PvP.

Maximus_Mordred
Maximus_Mordred
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See title. I am not exaggerating when I say that if you're playing any class except DK in PvP, you are going to have a miserable time. DK ability tooltips, ESPECIALLY Molten Whip, are so overbuffed that they do triple the damage of ultimates (I have 35k spell resists and minor protection and getting hit for 13k molten in noCP BGs) of many ultimates including leap itself, while having to put 0 effort into sustain because of CoF and morphs and having ridiculous survivability healing. All damage tooltips are like 1.5-2.5x what they should be and DK seems to have absolutely no flaws whatsoever, not even a weakness to Frost damage. They have all the damage, all the survivability, crazy ult gen, unlimited sustain from BR and abilities so can invest even more into damage without the usual tradeoffs, it's just stupid. And their leap CC is even more obnoxious than RoA.

The end result is that literally playing anything other than pureclass DK is setting yourself up to fail, and because of this Cyrodiil is almost universally DKs now and death recaps are literally just permutations of molten whip, leap and dragonfire. Everyone in BGs is DK spamming the same skills over and over with everyone running the same sets and builds (so much for subclassing giving more diversity lol). If the idea of encouraging pure class over subclass was to make one class so brazenly above and beyond any of the other 18 class lines to the point of any nonmeta build being equivalent to feeding then I have to say ZOS is doing an incredible job. Otherwise, some serious adjustments need to be made at least in PvP (perhaps a class-specific Battle Spirit?) and a fundamentally different approach to making pureclass viable must be adopted, or else we just get a repeat of this with every class refresh. I understand that a lot of PvErs are having a great time with the class which is fine given Arcanist's dominance but this has become insane. At the moment it's just a crutch for terrible, overconfident play because you can do pretty much anything short of step into the middle of a zerg and get away with it, unless of course there's another DK with the same overpowered crutch build.

There have been many periods pre-subclassing where classes have been dominant but since 2017 I don't think I've seen a single instance of any specific class or combo being OP anywhere near as close to this one. It is not an overstatement to say this is the absolute rock bottom (so far) of PvP balance in the game.

Some solutions I would propose to fix this:

- Like earlier, implement a temporary class-specific Battle Spirit that reduces damage, healing and all other tooltips of DK lines by X% for some appropriately chosen X, I would recommend X=25 as a good starting point. This would have no effect on PvE where arcanist still dominates. However, this would only be a temporary bandaid fix to try and keep class diversity on life support.

- Extend the limitations of more, (preferably all) DK abilities so that they perform the basic actions, then only have special effects if both a DK core and/or pureclassing - but this wouldn't fix the fact that pureclass DK is busted right now. However, assuming the other class refreshes are made similarly powerful, then it would at least revitalise playing pureclass again and the power imbalance would shift as more classes are refreshed. We already see this with certain DK abilities but at the moment it's not sufficient; imagine a subclassed DK + the future refreshed warden with no pureclass restrictions, somehow even more busted than DK already is. This would prevent that.

- Add more (PvP-centric) drawbacks proportional to how many DK skills/lines are used; for example higher damage taken from frost damage, interruptible cast times (<= 1 second/gcd so not noticeable for PvE players) for the most damaging abilities like whip, or reduced movement speed from activating these abilities to give enemies chance to recover and at least run from the ridiculously overpowered tooltips that DK currently has. Personally this is my least favourite suggestion and I prefer option 2, but these drawbacks wouldn't affect PvE (much) while giving real drawbacks and counterplay to just having broken tooltips (which we don't want to nerf lest it ruin pve experience).

But as it stands, this is the most unbalanced, unfun and broken state that PvP has ever been in if you're not playing dragonknight. A change needs to be made and soon, or else any enjoyment left from playing other classes, especially other pure classes, will just vanish completely.

e5jvhtu9ubue.png

^ My damage taken in BGs from combat metrics, and I'm a PvP healer with 3k crit resists, constant HoTs, and 34k spell.
  • Athory
    Athory
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    What about a Lv.10 player going into Battlegrounds and having to fight players CP2000+ with all skills unlocked and fully equipped? How is that not overpowered?
    • There’s no balance in ESO PvP.
    • That’s NOT real PvP, Cuz there’s no balance at all in ESO for any class.

    But… apparently we’ll get balance after all the class reworks… in about two years or so.
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  • L_Nici
    L_Nici
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    Hmm, I can play my Stamsorc just fine in BGs and Cyrodiil still. Also have a DK, its fun, but not as easy as you put it here to be broken with it, you need to know at least a little bit of what you are doing.

    Also I have seen a great variety of different DK Builds. My favorite was one that used Cinders of Anthelmir, hadn't seen that before, quite the punch on that proc.
    Edited by L_Nici on April 5, 2026 8:24PM
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  • Nyseto
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    It's only overpowered because the other classes haven't been refreshed yet.

    What were you expecting?
  • BardokRedSnow
    BardokRedSnow
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    Nyseto wrote: »
    It's only overpowered because the other classes haven't been refreshed yet.

    What were you expecting?

    Zos really needs to pin that fact somewhere or something. They've said it before as have others so many times but people are still hurt over DK getting the good refresh luvin first.

    Warden is next and then people will see those everywhere too and complain about that till everyone's favorite class is refreshed

    Hopefully the class masteries will alleviate some of this.
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  • albertberku
    albertberku
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    Whenever this kind of topic comes up, there are always some players commenting that they are being able to compete in PvP just as usual and everything is super normal in PvP. Let it be about new overperforming ways like Subclassing, classes or sets like Null Arca.

    When i play in Cyrodiil all i experience is almost everyone playing the new overperforming builds. And my old build from the previous patches cant even stand near the players more than couple seconds that i used to beat on 1v1s one patch ago. No, with a subclassing build or DK, you dont really need to know what you are doing. They are OP as hell.

    When you have a broken CC in your toolkit that takes ages to breakfree, and the only way to avoid it is to roll dodge, but then you have another broken CC like leap that can roll catch + gives you a free 20k tooltip lash hit, which you can burst together into a Incinerate + Soul of Flame combo that both have juicy tooltips, as well...

    No, that cant be just a normal day in Cyrodiil. I am not even talking about the entirety of the class. DK can compete with Subclassing now and i understand why they are so powerful compared to other classes currently but this just shows how broken Subclassing builds in PvP are really.
    Edited by albertberku on April 5, 2026 9:40PM
  • Thumbless_Bot
    Thumbless_Bot
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    Nyseto wrote: »
    It's only overpowered because the other classes haven't been refreshed yet.

    What were you expecting?

    Expecting from zos? Exactly this.

    Expecting from any other SaaS provider who has made 20 billion off of their platform? All classes released at the same time to prevent the degradation of game play for months if not years on end.

    We have zos, so we should expect exactly this.

    That being said, we are all or mostly all still going to pay for our subscriptions and play the game, so they have zero incentive to change their model...
    Edited by Thumbless_Bot on April 5, 2026 9:37PM
  • DrMedBorn
    DrMedBorn
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    thats just how it goes mate
  • L_Nici
    L_Nici
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    Whenever this kind of topic comes up, there are always some players commenting that they are being able to compete in PvP just as usual and everything is super normal in PvP. Let it be about new overperforming ways like Subclassing, classes or sets like Null Arca.

    When i play in Cyrodiil all i experience is almost everyone playing the new overperforming builds. And my old build from the previous patches cant even stand near the players more than couple seconds that i used to beat on 1v1s one patch ago.

    No, with a subclassing build or DK, you dont really need to know what you are doing. They are OP as hell.

    When you have a broken CC in your toolkit that takes ages to breakfree, and the only way to avoid it is to roll dodge, but then you have another broken CC like leap that can roll catch + gives you a free 20k tooltip lash hit, that cant be just a normal day in Cyrodiil. I am not even talking about the entirety of the class. DK can compete with Subclassing now and i understand why they are so powerful compared to other classes currently but this just shows how broken Subclassing builds in PvP are really.

    Well, in case you mean me with my Stamsorc. Sure there are a lot of DKs, yet I play that build since 10 years, did a few adjustments here and there, never followed the "Meta" did not enjoy the DoT Meta during Elsweyr as Sorcs still have no purge. But as you said, every time if something is overperforming, its not like its something new, that the games balance leaves something to be desired, but I always managed it. This is just another of those times.
    PC|EU
  • albertberku
    albertberku
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    So, you play a pure class Stamsorc and you can play just fine against a DK in Cyrodiil in ESO PvP? I have never seen myself this is happening in Cyrodiil. You must be the best ever video game player throughout the whole existence of video games.
  • Arunei
    Arunei
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    DK would only be overperforming because it was the first Class to get the rework.

    It could definitely be argued that they should have, at the VERY least, worked on a few of the Classes at the same time. I don't know if they could delay it for all of them, considering how long it's going to take to get through them (including WW). But I feel like DK could have been delayed another three months or so to be released with at least one other rework.
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  • Personofsecrets
    Personofsecrets
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    Subclasses were doing that type of damage against me, with my 40k resistances, prior to the DK update.

    When you are accustomed to DK being terrible, them getting some updated numbers can feel like them being OP.
    Rest in Peace:
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    This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.
  • Poss
    Poss
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    I don’t care. I’ll take this meta over the ludicrous warden charm cheese meta any day.

    Being able to play cyrodil without getting charmed every 6 seconds is a blessing
  • Estin
    Estin
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    Take off vampire and equip an infused flame resist glyph. Suddenly DK can't do anything to you anymore. There are people out there running full damage with stage 3+ vampire and wondering why DK is so strong.
  • albertberku
    albertberku
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    I dont think people are running Vampire this patch. But wouldnt that simply translate to 10% damage reduction though, an infused flame resist glyph? I cant see how this would make the difference all the way from OP to cant do anything. And in that case wouldnt you just simply be better off by having an infused dmg glyph and high enough hp for block heals which almost all PvP builds actually use currently?
    Edited by albertberku on April 5, 2026 11:29PM
  • Radiate77
    Radiate77
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    I dont think people are running Vampire this patch. But wouldnt that simply translate to 10% damage reduction though, an infused flame resist glyph? I cant see how this would make the difference all the way from OP to cant do anything.

    It wouldn’t, you’d still be getting smacked down by Corrosive + Molten Whip because resistances don’t matter at all.

    In most fights this patch with average to above-average Dragonknights you have untill their second ultimate to kill them, in which case, if they don’t go down before Corrosive is up, your chances of winning fly out the window.

    That said, not really bothered by Dragonknight being in a good spot. I want every class to feel like they do, including Subclassed builds that use off-meta skill lines.
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  • DoofusMax
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    Well that would explain how I just got shredded in the last BG. Time between drop and death could be counted in seconds. And here I was thinking it was just a poor build (I can live with sub-optimal, at least live for more than a few seconds).
    I'm fresh out of outrage, but I could muster up some amused annoyance if required.
  • Necrotech_Master
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    Poss wrote: »
    I don’t care. I’ll take this meta over the ludicrous warden charm cheese meta any day.

    Being able to play cyrodil without getting charmed every 6 seconds is a blessing

    depending on how they do the warden rework, this is very likely to end up coming back lol
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  • Aces-High-82
    Aces-High-82
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    Poss wrote: »
    I don’t care. I’ll take this meta over the ludicrous warden charm cheese meta any day.

    Being able to play cyrodil without getting charmed every 6 seconds is a blessing

    depending on how they do the warden rework, this is very likely to end up coming back lol

    They mentioned somewhere Charm will get a rework too.
  • Aces-High-82
    Aces-High-82
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    Nyseto wrote: »
    It's only overpowered because the other classes haven't been refreshed yet.

    What were you expecting?

    Zos really needs to pin that fact somewhere or something. They've said it before as have others so many times but people are still hurt over DK getting the good refresh luvin first.

    Warden is next and then people will see those everywhere too and complain about that till everyone's favorite class is refreshed

    Hopefully the class masteries will alleviate some of this.

    The pureclass masteries are a good Idea but that doesnt account how overloaded some of the reworked skills are eg infinite sustain via HoF/SoF or the 50% projectile reduction from Wings. I like and am ok that DK now can dish out serious damage but being able to neglect any need to incooperate sustain and shutting down ranged skills is way too much. I doubt they will adjust anything until all classes been reworked and that is concerning.
  • dark_hunterxmg
    dark_hunterxmg
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    When you have a broken CC in your toolkit that takes ages to breakfree, and the only way to avoid it is to roll dodge, but then you have another broken CC like leap that can roll catch + gives you a free 20k tooltip lash hit, which you can burst together into a Incinerate + Soul of Flame combo that both have juicy tooltips, as well...

    I've been talking about the extra CC from leap for a long time. It ignores immunity and is effectively a 3rd CC option. Holding a target in place for a guaranteed hit should not be a thing.
  • BXR_Lonestar
    BXR_Lonestar
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    Nyseto wrote: »
    It's only overpowered because the other classes haven't been refreshed yet.

    What were you expecting?

    Zos really needs to pin that fact somewhere or something. They've said it before as have others so many times but people are still hurt over DK getting the good refresh luvin first.

    Warden is next and then people will see those everywhere too and complain about that till everyone's favorite class is refreshed

    Hopefully the class masteries will alleviate some of this.

    This is the problem they are going to have with the way they have chosen to go about rebalancing the game. Instead of addressing the root issue (subclassing being way too overpowered), and then rebalancing the classes to be roughly even in terms of power, they have left subclassing untouched, and now they're going to rebalance the classes one at a time, which all have to be balanced incomparison to subclassing in its current state. What this means is that every reworked class is going to have to be way overtuned and will overperform, and each and every time they release a new class rework, it is likely going to set the meta for the game. It will feel good for some people in the short term, but in the long run, it won't solve anything.

    I've said this before and I will say it again. You cannot FIX the game by leaving broken things broken and balancing around those broken things. At some point, they ARE going to have to address subclassing being so broken by either getting rid of it, or reducing the power you get from it by eliminating the ability to transfer class passives with the skill lines.

    While I commend the current dev team's willingness to listen to input from the fans, they also need to have some sense about them and some vision for the game too. And common sense tells you that you can't fix a game while leaving some things broken and balancing around them.

    If you TRULY want to fix this game, then they are going to have to look at the root cause of the issues and address it.

    Or not. I'm perfectly happy enjoying other games.
  • CatalinaWineMixer2
    CatalinaWineMixer2
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    None of this would be going on if they would just do the right thing. Remove Subclassing. They should have never done this in the first place! This broken system has ruined every aspect of combat in this game. The character reworks you complain about are a direct result of this cherry picking system (Subclass). It will be impossible to even know how it will be until they are all finished because its YEARS down the road. The could remove Subclassing TOMORROW. The DK would still be the meta until the class passives rebalance this awful nightmare, but in a much faster time frame on a way more fair and even footing. The ridiculous Arcanist meta we have had for 3 years needs to go! No one should be able to use 3 dps skill lines. No one. Or all of their passives. The dps is too high everywhere, not just PvP. Its only going to get worse until they address the real problem and that is Subclassing.
  • El_Borracho
    El_Borracho
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    Subclasses were doing that type of damage against me, with my 40k resistances, prior to the DK update.

    When you are accustomed to DK being terrible, them getting some updated numbers can feel like them being OP.

    This is exactly how I feel. I've been running a DK in Cyrodiil since the Torc of the Last Ayleid King dropped and made DK viable again. Been running different variations since as its a great melee combat build. Killing the same players across the same factions in the same battles. Nobody cared that I was a DK until now.

    This sounds more like meta-chasers upset that they have to respec another build to the new shiny toy. Oh wait, can't do that on your charm-spamming warden. Oops. :D
    Edited by El_Borracho on April 6, 2026 3:55PM
  • React
    React
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    Hopefully they make every class as strong as the post-rework DK. If the goal is for pure classes to be on par with the meta subclassing specs that have dominated this past year, then DK tier buffs are what is necessary to accomplish this goal.
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  • Aces-High-82
    Aces-High-82
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    React wrote: »
    Hopefully they make every class as strong as the post-rework DK. If the goal is for pure classes to be on par with the meta subclassing specs that have dominated this past year, then DK tier buffs are what is necessary to accomplish this goal.

    Then every class have to get infinte sustain and 50% projectile reduction.....you cant be serious at least about that. I just went Ardent on all of my toons for SoF.
  • Courdisy
    Courdisy
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    I really dont get the desire for the power level to be so overbloated in the game. In my eyes the main contributor to the subclass meta in pvp is Vigor and the Soul Heal scribing ability is it not? Remove both of these and stacking 3 damage skill lines with 4 burst abilites all becomes much harder cause you have no way to sustain yourself, sounds like balance to me.

    Why does whip and many other skills need so many functions? Whip does insane damage, high level of healing, boost your damage output, snares the enemy, procs a status effect, does it all in an AOE. Why is anyone confused about the game lag and power being over the top when every skill in the game has 14 functions/components like this.

    Everyclass being this strong and having access to so many functions and procs and compoents of every ability seems like the opposite of what would make PvP combat good, and dont get me started on the movment speed, so over the top it is nuts. Everyone says the combat feels floaty, well that probably because your fighting and moving at 700mph.

    Little off topic from just dk being OP but the whole games power level feels so off to me in PvP.
  • DMuehlhausen
    DMuehlhausen
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    They were just massively re-worked. Of course they are. They will and should stay that way, and other classes will be brought in line when they get their re-works. Nerfing is not the answer
  • Dyngrin
    Dyngrin
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    ZOS, you don't achieve balance by endless power inflation or whipsaw extreme buffing then de-buffing. You achieve balance among class combat power by rough --> medium --> fine --> polish changes. If ZOS had started with this approach 12 YEARS AGO, all the classes would be polished and balanced by now!

    --Dyn
    Grand Overlord Dyngrin, Templar, Daggerfall Covenant (PC/NA)
  • Personofsecrets
    Personofsecrets
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    React wrote: »
    Hopefully they make every class as strong as the post-rework DK. If the goal is for pure classes to be on par with the meta subclassing specs that have dominated this past year, then DK tier buffs are what is necessary to accomplish this goal.

    The pure class specific skill line will certainly make pure classes disgustingly powerful.
    Rest in Peace:
    The Dragonknight
    2014-2025

    This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.
  • Thumbless_Bot
    Thumbless_Bot
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    Dyngrin wrote: »
    ZOS, you don't achieve balance by endless power inflation or whipsaw extreme buffing then de-buffing. You achieve balance among class combat power by rough --> medium --> fine --> polish changes. If ZOS had started with this approach 12 YEARS AGO, all the classes would be polished and balanced by now!

    --Dyn

    Better late than never.
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