Do not open all of your Tome Caches at once!

allochthons · April 5

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't remember seeing it.

It wasn't there for you to see. They are incorrect.
Check my post a few posts above this.

SilverBride · April 5

L_Nici wrote: »

Yeah it doesn't because thats not the info page. Thats page 0. The info page opened automatically and can be accessed again, if you failed reading it the first time by clicking on the question Mark -> Tamriel Tomes.

Where is this question mark?

L_Nici · April 5

Well if you did the math, you should have seen yourself that just by doing a average calculation using the tasks of week one, that you earn about 25k Tome points without the special ones like the 1500 for the Event now, while you only need 20k to UNLOCK all rewards, which is what I said. I never said to buy all, didn't calculate that, wouldn't change the point though, that the Caches are meant to buy something you really want, not to unlock everything day one.

And for me the info page like the one on the question mark did open on first log in, thats why I knew you can only take 2k with you.

Arunei · April 5

L_Nici wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

I have to say that I’m a bit shocked that with all of the upset people who are saying they did not know about the 2,000 cap because it wasn’t communicated clearly, there are those who are taking an opposing side.

For the people who did know about it, I’m happy for you, but can’t we have a little sympathy for the people who did not? 🤨

No. If you just skip through the info pages (where thats clearly stated), then open all caches because of the greed to get everything on day one of an entire season ahead, thats on you, [snip]

Is that how you first learned about the 2,000 point cap, hitting question mark on the intro page and then studying the information under Tamriel Tome before proceeding further into the new system?

No, once again, that side opened completely automatically as part of the first introduction of the tome. I had to make no further clicks. Just read, what was shown. Do you sign contracts without reading them too?
[edited to remove quote]

Just stop. It's become abundantly clear that the information was only available from the in-game Help menu, which most people do not think to check. Why? Because normally important details like this for new systems are stressed when they're revealed in detail. In streams, in articles, in the Patch Notes, which this WASN'T.

When they introduced Trade Bars, what was something they stressed in streams and articles? That they are unlimited and you can earn and have as many as you want. So the fact that they did not state something as equally important as a new system's Points capping at 2k per new Season ANYWHERE but the Help menu is utterly baffling.

Being condenscending towards people when the information OBVIOUSLY was NOT clearly communicated isn't a good look. As someone who watched all the streams and read every article, I again myself DID NOT KNOW the cap existed until I found a one-sentence mention of it on ESO Hub. And because I hadn't seen it CLEARLY communicated in any official channel, I didn't even know if that was correct or not.

So lets not sit here and poopoo on people for a lack of clear communicatoin about an important thing.

I also did not see anything "pop up" or any sort of introductory thing to the Tome that mentioned any sort of cap. There was nothing that came up on the screen at all that mentioned it, not on the PTS OR live. I opened the Tome and it was the same as on PTS, it shows the "welcome to season zero" page with a bit of info about stuff, and then you proceed to the actual Tome. Literally NOTHING there said anything about the cap.

L_Nici · April 5

SilverBride wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Yeah it doesn't because thats not the info page. Thats page 0. The info page opened automatically and can be accessed again, if you failed reading it the first time by clicking on the question Mark -> Tamriel Tomes.

Where is this question mark?

The question mark is in the top pretty much right, its called HELP, in case you want to open it, or just press F1. Anyway I didn't have to do that, as it opened automatically.

JeroenB · April 5

I don't quite understand why L_Nici is being so vigorously defensive of the official communication around Tome Point expiration when ZOS via Gina's Reddit post has already acknowledged that this communication is insufficiently clear.

L_Nici · April 5

JeroenB wrote: »

I don't quite understand why L_Nici is being so vigorously defensive of the official communication around Tome Point expiration when ZOS via Gina's Reddit post has already acknowledged that this communication is insufficiently clear.

Unclear does not mean, never mentioned as many here try to indicate. Instead of seeing their own mistake, by not reading the fine print and the obvious greed to unlock a Season on day 1, instead of over the time of 14 weeks, they try to shift the blame.

Arunei · April 5

L_Nici wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Yeah it doesn't because thats not the info page. Thats page 0. The info page opened automatically and can be accessed again, if you failed reading it the first time by clicking on the question Mark -> Tamriel Tomes.

Where is this question mark?

The question mark is in the top pretty much right, its called HELP, in case you want to open it, or just press F1. Anyway I didn't have to do that, as it opened automatically.

No, it did not. Either you're lying, have an addon that did it for you, or you hit something on accident. Never has a Help menu EVER opened automatically upon accessing a new system for the first time. And you are being extremely disengenous by pretending not to understand why people are having issues with information this important only being mentioned in the Help article, when any other time a major new system was added, it was gone over in detail when it was revealed in full. A majority of people DO NOT CHECK the Help menu because we don't usually HAVE to for new systems.

And again...no, the Help menu did not open for you automatically.

L_Nici · April 5

Arunei wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Yeah it doesn't because thats not the info page. Thats page 0. The info page opened automatically and can be accessed again, if you failed reading it the first time by clicking on the question Mark -> Tamriel Tomes.

Where is this question mark?

The question mark is in the top pretty much right, its called HELP, in case you want to open it, or just press F1. Anyway I didn't have to do that, as it opened automatically.

No, it did not. Either you're lying or you hit something on accident. Never has a Help menu EVER opened automatically upon accessing a new system for the first time.

Then I must have incredible foresight, as I knew very well of that 2k limit on opening the tome for the first time and not using my caches because of it.

allochthons · April 5

L_Nici wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Yeah it doesn't because thats not the info page. Thats page 0. The info page opened automatically and can be accessed again, if you failed reading it the first time by clicking on the question Mark -> Tamriel Tomes.

Where is this question mark?

The question mark is in the top pretty much right, its called HELP, in case you want to open it, or just press F1. Anyway I didn't have to do that, as it opened automatically.

No, it did not. Either you're lying or you hit something on accident. Never has a Help menu EVER opened automatically upon accessing a new system for the first time.

Then I must have incredible foresight, as I knew very well of that 2k limit on opening the tome for the first time and not using my caches because of it.

As I pointed out on pg 2, the information was available on some third party sites, like ESO-Hub and Alcast's guide. But they got it (afaict) from the PTS help file. So, the help file remains the only official ZoS source of the information. And the help file definitely didn't pop up on console.

And don't say "read 3rd party sites." You are incorrect. It's time to step back.

L_Nici · April 5

allochthons wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Yeah it doesn't because thats not the info page. Thats page 0. The info page opened automatically and can be accessed again, if you failed reading it the first time by clicking on the question Mark -> Tamriel Tomes.

Where is this question mark?

The question mark is in the top pretty much right, its called HELP, in case you want to open it, or just press F1. Anyway I didn't have to do that, as it opened automatically.

No, it did not. Either you're lying or you hit something on accident. Never has a Help menu EVER opened automatically upon accessing a new system for the first time.

Then I must have incredible foresight, as I knew very well of that 2k limit on opening the tome for the first time and not using my caches because of it.

As I pointed out, the information was available on some third party sites, like ESO-Hub and Alcast's guide. But they got it (afaict) from the PTS help file. So, the help file remains the only official ZoS source of the information. And the help file definitely didn't pop up on console.

And don't say "read 3rd party sites." You are incorrect. It's time to step back.

I never said read 3rd Party sides. Even if the info page did not open automatically, which it did for me, its not a third party its in the game, available for anyone.

L_Nici · April 5

allochthons wrote: »

*face palming so hard.*

You don't need to punish yourself physcially for being inattentive and impatient actually. If it weren't for that impatience, people wouldn't have opened all their caches.

JeroenB · April 5

L_Nici wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

I don't quite understand why L_Nici is being so vigorously defensive of the official communication around Tome Point expiration when ZOS via Gina's Reddit post has already acknowledged that this communication is insufficiently clear.

Unclear does not mean, never mentioned as many here try to indicate. Instead of seeing their own mistake, by not reading the fine print and the obvious greed to unlock a Season on day 1, instead of over the time of 14 weeks, they try to shift the blame.

In this very thread we have seen demonstrations of the messages that normally pop up on both PC and Console when an account first interacts with the Tome. These messages do not contain the information you claim to have seen. Possibly for some reason on your system the Help file did pop up for some reason, which is nice for you -- but clearly does not match the experience of a large enough chunk of the playerbase. Are you denying that? Are you trying to say that all those who claim to not have had the Help file pop up automatically are mistaken? That the two who posted screenshots from PC and Console must have intentionally omitted a screenshot of this automatic Help file pop-up?

If that's not what you're saying, then what are you trying to say? That this information exists in the Help file? Yes, we know -- no-one is denying that. What's your point, what are you trying to convince us of?

L_Nici · April 5

JeroenB wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

I don't quite understand why L_Nici is being so vigorously defensive of the official communication around Tome Point expiration when ZOS via Gina's Reddit post has already acknowledged that this communication is insufficiently clear.

Unclear does not mean, never mentioned as many here try to indicate. Instead of seeing their own mistake, by not reading the fine print and the obvious greed to unlock a Season on day 1, instead of over the time of 14 weeks, they try to shift the blame.

In this very thread we have seen demonstrations of the messages that normally pop up on both PC and Console when an account first interacts with the Tome. These messages do not contain the information you claim to have seen. Possibly for some reason on your system the Help file did pop up for some reason, which is nice for you -- but clearly does not match the experience of a large enough chunk of the playerbase. Are you denying that? Are you trying to say that all those who claim to not have had the Help file pop up automatically are mistaken? That the two who posted screenshots from PC and Console must have intentionally omitted a screenshot of this automatic Help file pop-up?

If that's not what you're saying, then what are you trying to say? That this information exists in the Help file? Yes, we know -- no-one is denying that. What's your point, what are you trying to convince us of?

Well its quite possible that many did not get that page, yet the info is in the game regardless.
And my second point still stands, that the impatience to unlock a season of 14 weeks on day 1 is largely to blame. You can't tell me you actually believed to be able to take unlimited tome points into a next, and a next, and a next season, then the entire system would be redundant.

Silaf · April 5

Arunei wrote: »

They REALLY should have mentioned in at least one of the livestreams AND one of the articles about the Tomes that only 2k would carry over from Season to Season, and I'm honestly kinda bewildered they didn't bring up such an important point.

I also don't see why CS can't remove the Points from your account and just reissue the Caches again.

Yes this instead of wasting time talking about cats. I wish for a change in the comunity managers. Give us someone competent that actually play the game.

JeroenB · April 5

L_Nici wrote: »

[...]
And my second point still stands, that the impatience to unlock a season of 14 weeks on day 1 is largely to blame. You can't tell me you actually believed to be able to take unlimited tome points into a next, and a next, and a next season, then the entire system would be redundant.

Let me turn that around: What would have given me even the slightest indication that I should even consider the possibility that the currency Tome Points would not be persistent, just as every other currency in ESO is? There was absolutely no reason given not to open them.

I considered that there might be a cap, and explicitly checked for that in the Currencies tab, but honestly the thought did not even flitter through my mind once that they might expire.

L_Nici · April 5

JeroenB wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

[...]
And my second point still stands, that the impatience to unlock a season of 14 weeks on day 1 is largely to blame. You can't tell me you actually believed to be able to take unlimited tome points into a next, and a next, and a next season, then the entire system would be redundant.

Let me turn that around: What would have given me even the slightest indication that I should even consider the possibility that the currency Tome Points would not be persistent, just as every other currency in ESO is? There was absolutely no reason given not to open them.

Basic logic maybe? If you could take unlimited points over to other seasons, they would unlock as soon as they start until you reach the point when your current points do not match the required amount anymore. Over time that would lead to every season being unlocked as soon as it launches, as you get more points than you need unless you take every XP Scroll or other junk in the tome.

allochthons · April 5

Every factual assertion you have made in this thread, @L_Nici, has been proven to be incorrect. With the exception of that the rollover is in the help file. Would you like me to make a video about what it takes to open that help file on Console? It's a journey. No one, absolutely no one, would expect a person coming into a new event to go look at it.

if people who opened their caches, for which they paid real life money, want to participate in the next 3 months of this event, they're going to lose some of that money, That is worth pointing out to ZoS and having them find a solution. And as it happens, I didn't open mine either. I haven't lost anything. I'm here because this was a bad mistake on Z0Ss part, and it needs to be discussed.

You keep changing the goalposts to keep in the game. We all recognize it. Step back.

L_Nici · April 5

allochthons wrote: »

Every factual assertion you have made in this thread, @L_Nici, has been proven to be incorrect. With the exception of that the rollover is in the help file. Would you like me to make a video about what it takes to open that help file on Console? It's a journey. No one, absolutely no one, would expect a person coming into a new event to go look at it.

You keep changing the goalposts to keep in the game. We all recognize it. Step back.

I did not change anything. My very first comment brought up 3 points. The Info is in the game, which is proven true, even though you might not get the page opened automatically, second that impatience lead to people trying to unlock a 14 week season on day 1 and lastly that simple math would have shown you that the weekly tasks would have granted you enough Tome points to unlock everything, without any cache.

SilverBride · April 5

L_Nici wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Yeah it doesn't because thats not the info page. Thats page 0. The info page opened automatically and can be accessed again, if you failed reading it the first time by clicking on the question Mark -> Tamriel Tomes.

Where is this question mark?

The question mark is in the top pretty much right, its called HELP, in case you want to open it, or just press F1. Anyway I didn't have to do that, as it opened automatically.

WHY would I access the help menu if I didn't need help with anything?

Elvenheart · April 5

L_Nici wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

I don't quite understand why L_Nici is being so vigorously defensive of the official communication around Tome Point expiration when ZOS via Gina's Reddit post has already acknowledged that this communication is insufficiently clear.

Unclear does not mean, never mentioned as many here try to indicate. Instead of seeing their own mistake, by not reading the fine print and the obvious greed to unlock a Season on day 1, instead of over the time of 14 weeks, they try to shift the blame.

In this very thread we have seen demonstrations of the messages that normally pop up on both PC and Console when an account first interacts with the Tome. These messages do not contain the information you claim to have seen. Possibly for some reason on your system the Help file did pop up for some reason, which is nice for you -- but clearly does not match the experience of a large enough chunk of the playerbase. Are you denying that? Are you trying to say that all those who claim to not have had the Help file pop up automatically are mistaken? That the two who posted screenshots from PC and Console must have intentionally omitted a screenshot of this automatic Help file pop-up?

If that's not what you're saying, then what are you trying to say? That this information exists in the Help file? Yes, we know -- no-one is denying that. What's your point, what are you trying to convince us of?

Well its quite possible that many did not get that page, yet the info is in the game regardless.
And my second point still stands, that the impatience to unlock a season of 14 weeks on day 1 is largely to blame. You can't tell me you actually believed to be able to take unlimited tome points into a next, and a next, and a next season, then the entire system would be redundant.

I mentioned earlier that I’m one of the lucky ones that did not open any of my caches, not because ZOS had made clear what would happen if I did, but because I DID NOT KNOW what would happen and wanted to find out more by dipping my toe in the system as it were, unlocking some points naturally, and then spending them before going deeper.

I think your assumption that everyone who opened them were just being greedy and planning to spend them all right away is incorrect. There have been many posts from people who have never experienced any sort of battle pass system and had no idea what to expect. I’m one of those people. And there have been posts from people who have had experience with battle passes in other games and have kindly enlightened people in the forums about some of the things to expect. Some of them didn’t know about the point limit either, and some of them have said they are surprised we even get to carry 2000 points to the next Tome.

ESO has always been a game where players help players and that’s a good thing. But the critical, need to know information that can cost people money really needs to be first communicated by ZOS in very forward, upfront ways until there is little chance left that it won’t be seen. This is just common sense and a reasonable expectation by the consumer.

JeroenB · April 5

L_Nici wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

[...]
And my second point still stands, that the impatience to unlock a season of 14 weeks on day 1 is largely to blame. You can't tell me you actually believed to be able to take unlimited tome points into a next, and a next, and a next season, then the entire system would be redundant.

Let me turn that around: What would have given me even the slightest indication that I should even consider the possibility that the currency Tome Points would not be persistent, just as every other currency in ESO is? There was absolutely no reason given not to open them.

Basic logic maybe? If you could take unlimited points over to other seasons, they would unlock as soon as they start until you reach the point when your current points do not match the required amount anymore. Over time that would lead to every season being unlocked as soon as it launches, as you get more points than you need unless you take every XP Scroll or other junk in the tome.

The current ESO+ Caches unlocked most of the tabs already, so clearly ZOS does not consider that an issue.

It is also a rather convoluted reasoning to expect every player in the playerbase to be able to think up on their own, especially those of us who have not played other games with a 'battle pass'.

Tome Points are a currency. All the other currencies in ESO do not expire. There was no indication given in the UI to suggest this might be different for Tome Points.

Silaf · April 5

Aylish wrote: »

I‘m truly sorry for all of you. I really am.

But I must say that I was aware of this mechanic. So they have said that at some point before the season began.
It‘s not true that there was zero info about this before.
I know that not everyone is gathering information from outside of the game but the infos were there.
I know this is frustrating but you could have easily calculated how many points you need to unlock and buy everything and come to the conclusion that you won‘t need all of your caches.

I know that this isn‘t helpful for any of you at this point but someone needs to say that it was said before that unspent points will expire after the end of the season. Otherwise the tome point caches would not have any point anyway.

I disagree. I want to point out i luckly diden't open my caches so i'm impartial. I've played the game since beta without interruption and watched all streams and indipendent related channels and still i diden't know.

Where did Zos explain the caches mechanic?
I don't want to watch or play on pts because it will spoil and ruin the game for me.

allochthons · April 5

L_Nici wrote: »

second that impatience lead to people trying to unlock a 14 week season on day 1

This is not a fact. It is a value statement. Which everyone else posting in this thread disagrees with. It is neither greedy nor impatient to claim a reward you have earned and/or spend real money on, if you do not have all the relevant information.

L_Nici wrote: »

and lastly that simple math would have shown you that the weekly tasks would have granted you enough Tome points to unlock everything, without any cache.

And I asked you, did you do that math before starting? I showed my work. And here.

(I should note, that the number being published on 3rd party sites is incorrect.)

L_Nici · April 5

JeroenB wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

[...]
And my second point still stands, that the impatience to unlock a season of 14 weeks on day 1 is largely to blame. You can't tell me you actually believed to be able to take unlimited tome points into a next, and a next, and a next season, then the entire system would be redundant.

Let me turn that around: What would have given me even the slightest indication that I should even consider the possibility that the currency Tome Points would not be persistent, just as every other currency in ESO is? There was absolutely no reason given not to open them.

Basic logic maybe? If you could take unlimited points over to other seasons, they would unlock as soon as they start until you reach the point when your current points do not match the required amount anymore. Over time that would lead to every season being unlocked as soon as it launches, as you get more points than you need unless you take every XP Scroll or other junk in the tome.

The current ESO+ Caches unlocked most of the tabs already, so clearly ZOS does not consider that an issue.

It is also a rather convoluted reasoning to expect every player in the playerbase to be able to think up on their own, especially those of us who have not played other games with a 'battle pass'.

Tome Points are a currency. All the other currencies in ESO do not expire. There was no indication given in the UI to suggest this might be different for Tome Points.

I would argue that the Cache issue now only exists, because we got them retroactively. From now on you gain them mathmatically parallel each month, which would mean just about 3000 Tome Points per season, if they keep on 90 days. So of course ZOS didn't see an issue with it longterm. Yes, you would get 12 in front if you buy 12 months ESO Plus Subs, but thats still about 3 Caches per season from now on.

L_Nici · April 5

allochthons wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

second that impatience lead to people trying to unlock a 14 week season on day 1

This is not a fact. It is a value statement. Which everyone else posting in this thread disagrees with. It is neither greedy nor impatient to claim a reward you have earned and/or spend real money on, if you do not have all the relevant information.

L_Nici wrote: »

and lastly that simple math would have shown you that the weekly tasks would have granted you enough Tome points to unlock everything, without any cache.

And I asked you, did you do that math before starting? I showed my work. And here.

(I should note, that the number being published on 3rd party sites is incorrect.)

And I answered that I calculated it based on the tasks of the first week, taking an average going forward, reaching about 25k Tome Points, while only 20k are needed to unlock all sides.

SilverBride · April 5

I did open my caches because I thought this was something being given to us. It was not clear that these were holding points and what would happen once they were opened.

What bothers me the most about this whole thing is the complete lack of communication here on the official ESO forums, despite there being many prominent posts about how negatively many players have been affected by this.

L_Nici · April 5

SilverBride wrote: »

I did open my caches because I thought this was something being given to us. It was not clear that these were holding points and what would happen once they were opened.

What bothers me the most about this whole thing is the complete lack of communication here on the official ESO forums, despite there being many prominent posts about how negatively many players have been affected by this.

Tome Point Caches holding Tome Points was a surprise to you?

SilverBride · April 5

L_Nici wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I did open my caches because I thought this was something being given to us. It was not clear that these were holding points and what would happen once they were opened.

What bothers me the most about this whole thing is the complete lack of communication here on the official ESO forums, despite there being many prominent posts about how negatively many players have been affected by this.

Tome Point Caches holding Tome Points was a surprise to you?

All my screen says is "Open Cache" and how many caches are there. It does not call them Tome Point Caches.

JeroenB · April 5

L_Nici wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

[...]
And my second point still stands, that the impatience to unlock a season of 14 weeks on day 1 is largely to blame. You can't tell me you actually believed to be able to take unlimited tome points into a next, and a next, and a next season, then the entire system would be redundant.

Let me turn that around: What would have given me even the slightest indication that I should even consider the possibility that the currency Tome Points would not be persistent, just as every other currency in ESO is? There was absolutely no reason given not to open them.

Basic logic maybe? If you could take unlimited points over to other seasons, they would unlock as soon as they start until you reach the point when your current points do not match the required amount anymore. Over time that would lead to every season being unlocked as soon as it launches, as you get more points than you need unless you take every XP Scroll or other junk in the tome.

The current ESO+ Caches unlocked most of the tabs already, so clearly ZOS does not consider that an issue.

It is also a rather convoluted reasoning to expect every player in the playerbase to be able to think up on their own, especially those of us who have not played other games with a 'battle pass'.

Tome Points are a currency. All the other currencies in ESO do not expire. There was no indication given in the UI to suggest this might be different for Tome Points.

I would argue that the Cache issue now only exists, because we got them retroactively. From now on you gain them mathmatically parallel each month, which would mean just about 3000 Tome Points per season, if they keep on 90 days. So of course ZOS didn't see an issue with it longterm. Yes, you would get 12 in front if you buy 12 months ESO Plus Subs, but thats still about 3 Caches per season from now on.

I disagree. If in six months a new player starts playing this game and subscribes to ESO+, they will receive a Tome Cache containing Tome Points, and unless ZOS changes the UI, that player will have no reason to assume they might lose those points if they open the Cache.