To anyone saying "this was mentioned on some randome live stream or in some obscure forum post", respectfully, we should not have to hunt down critical information via a randomized communication channel outside of the game in order to avoid wasting a huge amount of in-game resources.

I also opened all my caches not really understanding what they even were or how it worked, because like a normal person, I expected the game to provide me with any vague tool tip if this wasn't intended behavior. I can't even delete crown poisons without having to manually type in "CONFIRM". The game gave me a one-click option to open all of my caches all at once!

Should I also be doing a lot of out of game research before I open my anniversary parcels and my writ reward containers?

lydra wrote: »

To anyone saying "this was mentioned on some randome live stream or in some obscure forum post", respectfully, we should not have to hunt down critical information via a randomized communication channel outside of the game in order to avoid wasting a huge amount of in-game resources.

The first thing is not necessarily opposed to your second - in fact, it can be (and was just) mentioned in support of it. ZOS could have taken these unofficial discussions as impetus to ensure more effective official communication in advance. Unofficial discussions tell ZOS what people want to and need to communicate regarding the game.

To your point about not needing to look outside of game, the information was actually already mentioned in the game - which again is the opposite of exculpation to my mind. While it shows they understood that they should include it in game, where and how they included it turned out to be deeply ineffective as well. The game is 12 years old, and this shows they may still not quite understand the traffic the Help menu gets (or doesn't) and why.

This all follows on from the unfortunate trend of major factual errors in event announcements. They're left retrospectively acknowledging the missed communication here and trying to figure out how to do better, as Gina said. On Reddit.

chess1ukb16_ESO wrote: »

Folks should be allowed to buy the caches back with the unspent Tomes points. Simple.

It's not so simple to undo the effect of having opened the caches, which unlocks Tome pages. I think they'll want to do something about this first season, due to the lack of clarity, but if they implemented this as a permanent feature it would create a situation where players who had paid for a sub or +bonus tier even once could exempt themselves from the page-unlocking restriction for as many tomes as they wished going forward. If they're going to offer us the possibility of negating that time-gate mechanic permanently for all tomes going forward, they should do so openly and transparently. A lot of people are expressing a desire for fuller, more visible communication, whereas leaving something unintended as a hidden feature of a paid option doesn't seem to align with that.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Soooooo why was this information NOT provided here as well when you have people actively bringing it up on the official forums? Communication has been a lot better this year but here we go again with info being posted somewhere other than the game's actual forums.

And the fact that no one ever once mentioned that Tome Points would only roll over up to 2k was a HUGE oversight. WHY are these things even limited when you JUST made Tickets basically limitless with the Bars system because you realized how frustrating it was for people to deal with currency limitations?

Aylish wrote: »

I‘m truly sorry for all of you. I really am.

But I must say that I was aware of this mechanic. So they have said that at some point before the season began.
It‘s not true that there was zero info about this before.
I know that not everyone is gathering information from outside of the game but the infos were there.
I know this is frustrating but you could have easily calculated how many points you need to unlock and buy everything and come to the conclusion that you won‘t need all of your caches.

I know that this isn‘t helpful for any of you at this point but someone needs to say that it was said before that unspent points will expire after the end of the season. Otherwise the tome point caches would not have any point anyway.

Like someone else mentioned, I watched ALL the streams and read ALL the articles. Not in a single one did I hear them say or read that Points were only going to roll over up to 2k. I ONLY found out maybe two weeks ago because I was poking around for another thread that ESO Hub said they would cap at 2k, and I didn't know if that was correct or not because it was literally never pointed out that I can remember.

It was probably in the Help menu on the PTS, which is the only place I can imagine they pulled it from, but how many people think to look at the Help menu for things like this? When normally during reveal livestreams and such they'll go over all the major points for a new system? It wasn't even in the Patch Notes, where they go into full detail for new systems. I've been playing this game since closed beta and it generally never occurs to me to check the Help articles for information; I'm sure that applies to a LOT of people.

There is a difference between information being stated and made clear somewhere, and information being stated but buried in a section where one wouldn't think to check because generally we don't normally need to.

Even though it could have been clearer, you could have caught that, if you weren't so focussed on getting everything from a SEASON on day 1, greed is a terrible ally. A little math would have shown you, that you get enough Tome Points, to unlock everything, without ever opening any Cache, a bit of reading would have told you, that you can only take 2k, and obviously unlimited caches. They are not there to get you everything on day one, but to give you a chance to get something you really want.

I didn't even think of opening my caches, because I knew it would be a waste of Tome points.

danko355 wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Even though it could have been clearer, you could have caught that, if you weren't so focussed on getting everything from a SEASON on day 1, greed is a terrible ally. A little math would have shown you, that you get enough Tome Points, to unlock everything, without ever opening any Cache, a bit of reading would have told you, that you can only take 2k, and obviously unlimited caches. They are not there to get you everything on day one, but to give you a chance to get something you really want.

I didn't even think of opening my caches, because I knew it would be a waste of Tome points.

A bit of reading where?
Patch Notes? No
Official game news or articles? No
Was it mentioned during the developer livestream? No
Was it mentioned in a reasonable place in-game? Like a Tomes preview window where for some reason even Dragonknight and 2Hand reworks are mentioned, but not the crucial mechanics of Tomes? No

Did you not read the info page as the tome was unlocked for the very first time? If not, well if you click on the question Mark and then Tamriel Tome, everything is there.

A simple fix would be to include this information right next to the "Open Caches" button: "(Once opened only 2000 of the Tomes inside will carry over to the next season, all other Tomes must be spent during the current season. Intact Caches will carry over if they are unopened.)"

It is my understanding that excess Tomes won't be completely lost, but they will be spent automatically on any seasons rewards that are left, whether they are wanted or not.

I opened Caches before remembering I had read/heard about the carry over situation, so oops. But it worked out for me because I wanted to convert the Tomes to Trade Bars anyway.

virtus753 wrote: »

Cin_Vhetin wrote: »

A simple fix would be to include this information right next to the "Open Caches" button: "(Once opened only 2000 of the Tomes inside will carry over to the next season, all other Tomes must be spent during the current season. Intact Caches will carry over if they are unopened.)"

It is my understanding that excess Tomes won't be completely lost, but they will be spent automatically on any seasons rewards that are left, whether they are wanted or not.

I opened Caches before remembering I had read/heard about the carry over situation, so oops. But it worked out for me because I wanted to convert the Tomes to Trade Bars anyway.

Even with 2k carryover and autoredeem, it is possible to completely lose points, and potentially lots of them.

For the free track, any amount above 17,990 is flat out lost. Yes, that means earning enough to unlock all pages (20k) means you lose at least 2,010 after carryover. The game can’t autoredeem premium rewards if you don’t upgrade (I wish!).

Anything above 33,930 is lost on the premium track. There are only 31,930 points’ worth of rewards available in the full Tome.

ETA: Going forward, it will be harder for people who upgraded to premium to lose points, as they will have prior Tomes whose rewards can be unlocked. It will still be possible, though. And people who don’t upgrade lose access to past Tomes, so the same situation applies each season.

Thank you and the others who have done this math and posted the results in topics about this. I think this information is very interesting and important, a very good thing to know, but it should not have fallen on the shoulders of players to be the one doing the math here. I think ZOS should have communicated this in a detailed in-depth easily accessible guide. I had to lol when I read someone say that every player should have done this math for themselves before opening any caches. What other game has ever made a player have to go to that kind of trouble? 😂

L_Nici wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Did you not read the info page as the tome was unlocked for the very first time? If not, well if you click on the question Mark and then Tamriel Tome, everything is there.

I didn't. I don't instinctively click on question marks unless I have a question.

This is a HUGE important fact for players to have and it should have been posted in a very prominent place. And when a player clicks to open a cache there should be a warning notifying of this and verifying that they still wish to proceed. And a new system such as this should have had a tutorial the first time it was opened to teach the player these things. And all communication about this should be HERE on the OFFICIAL FORUMS, not on Reddit.

But on the first time you logged in after the Tome was introduced, that page opened automatically.

I don't remember seeing it.

Elvenheart wrote: »

I have to say that I’m a bit shocked that with all of the upset people who are saying they did not know about the 2,000 cap because it wasn’t communicated clearly, there are those who are taking an opposing side.

For the people who did know about it, I’m happy for you, but can’t we have a little sympathy for the people who did not? 🤨

No. If you just skip through the info pages (where thats clearly stated), then open all caches because of the greed to get everything on day one of an entire season ahead, thats on you, [snip]
[edited for flaming]

Loving the system, but Im not understanding why this is even a thing, just make them carry over indefinitely @ZOS_GinaBruno ? Seems like a huge oversight that doesn't benefit anyone since this mistake would only push loyal players spending extra money just for cosmetics away.

L_Nici wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Did you not read the info page as the tome was unlocked for the very first time? If not, well if you click on the question Mark and then Tamriel Tome, everything is there.

I didn't. I don't instinctively click on question marks unless I have a question.

This is a HUGE important fact for players to have and it should have been posted in a very prominent place. And when a player clicks to open a cache there should be a warning notifying of this and verifying that they still wish to proceed. And a new system such as this should have had a tutorial the first time it was opened to teach the player these things. And all communication about this should be HERE on the OFFICIAL FORUMS, not on Reddit.

But on the first time you logged in after the Tome was introduced, that page opened automatically.

It was supposed to, it didn't always. It did on my alt account and on EU but did not on my main account on NA. Why not? who knows. Also that page said nothing about points expiring

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Did you not read the info page as the tome was unlocked for the very first time? If not, well if you click on the question Mark and then Tamriel Tome, everything is there.

I didn't. I don't instinctively click on question marks unless I have a question.

This is a HUGE important fact for players to have and it should have been posted in a very prominent place. And when a player clicks to open a cache there should be a warning notifying of this and verifying that they still wish to proceed. And a new system such as this should have had a tutorial the first time it was opened to teach the player these things. And all communication about this should be HERE on the OFFICIAL FORUMS, not on Reddit.

But on the first time you logged in after the Tome was introduced, that page opened automatically.

It was supposed to, it didn't always. It did on my alt account and on EU but did not on my main account on NA. Why not? who knows. Also that page said nothing about points expiring

Yeah it doesn't because thats not the info page. Thats page 0. The info page opened automatically and can be accessed again, if you failed reading it the first time by clicking on the question Mark -> Tamriel Tomes.

Or maybe the popup in the challenges menu?

Nope that one also says nothing.

Victim-blaming isn't helpful here. But, in addition, you are entirely incorrect.

L_Nici wrote: »

A little math would have shown you... <snip>

Did you do the math? Seriously, did you pull out the spreadsheet or calculator? I did. I'm the one who did the math and posted it here to the forums.

L_Nici wrote: »

Did you not read the info page as the tome was unlocked for the very first time? If not, well if you click on the question Mark and then Tamriel Tome, everything is there.

L_Nici wrote: »

a bit of reading would have told you, that you can only take 2k, and obviously unlimited caches. They are not there to get you everything on day one, but to give you a chance to get something you really want.

Everything is definitely NOT there.
The info page as the tome was unlocked DOES NOT MENTION the 2K rollover.
Here are screenshots of the first time you log in to the game after the update. After you hit that final [Continue], you get to the screen that shows the pages and rewards.

If not, well if you click on the question Mark and then Tamriel Tome, everything is there.

Since I'm on console, I don't know which ? you mean. But if you mean the help file, that has been pointed out multiple times, across multiple threads. I have looked everywhere. There is no place, on an official ESO source*, that mentions the 2K roll-over. Except that one help file. The only other place it's mentioned that I can find is on 3rd party sites. Where they got it, I don't know, but I assume that help same help file on PTS.
Do NOT say we should be reading 3rd party sites.

[*Obviously the info is available in a ton of places now. I mean, before the Season started, or that anyone could have searched in the first day of the Season.]

(edited to fix the post link)