Season Zero: Dawn and Dusk Is Now Live

DP99 · April 3

So we have to pay for the premium level now just to earn endeavors?

Because, I didn't see any under the free rewards track.

I don't mind paying the $15, but to not have any at all under the standard track is kind of scummy.

Unless I'm looking at it wrong, and the standard stuff is at the bottom of the page, and the premium stuff is all at the top?

It's very confusing.

PeacefulAnarchy · April 3

DP99 wrote: »

Unless I'm looking at it wrong, and the standard stuff is at the bottom of the page, and the premium stuff is all at the top?

It's very confusing.

Yes, the bottom is free, the top is premium. So endeavors are all free track and comparable to what we had

DP99 · April 3

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

DP99 wrote: »

Unless I'm looking at it wrong, and the standard stuff is at the bottom of the page, and the premium stuff is all at the top?

It's very confusing.

Yes, the bottom is free, the top is premium. So endeavors are all free track and comparable to what we had

Ok, thanks for clarifying.

It's still needlessly complicated though, and I'm not liking it.

Was so simple before.

LittlePinkDot · April 3

What is tomes??? What is it for?

allochthons · April 3

Elvenheart wrote: »

I agree with this, because still in all my reading about this up until today I still haven’t seen where it says we can only carry over 2,000 Tome points, I’ve only seen that mentioned here on the forums. Even having any limit in place like that is rather disheartening, it reminds me of the 12 ticket limit we had before.

^^ This. So much this. ^^
I've watched all the streams, read all the articles, and I had no idea what the caches were, that I could and should save them, or that I could only carry 2K tome points over to the next season.

This needs to be made much clearer!

On looking back, I remember there being information that ESO+ would give us extra tome points, but not that they'd specifically be found in those caches. All it says in-game is "Open Cache."
And with the poor and overwhelming design of the Tome UI, (I'm on console) I bet even many people who saw the in-game help were confused.

There is going to be some pretty unhappy people at the end of this season and at the beginning of Season 1.

allochthons · April 3

Malkorga wrote: »

I have noticed that the value of tome points to trade bars is not consistent. First page is 500 tomes for 750 trade bars. Second page is 450 tomes for 750 trade bars.

The currencies get cheaper the further along you get. Price is in Tome Points:

(my lists, I was seeing how many points I needed for just want I wanted. The pg 5 for seals may be wrong, I had a typo in that cell. I also suspect the Trade Bars 750 for 450 TP is also a typo, I'm not currently logged in to check).

Malyore · April 3

Not as much unique elements in these tomes as I was expecting. Aside from the materials and currencies, and some old furnishings, there's what, like... two new style sets for weapons and armor?
I know there is a bit more than that as well, but very little I see which can expand player character identity. And also very little related to dawn and dusk besides a pinch of skill styles.

Don't get me wrong, the currencies are cool. It just feels odd to complete tasks to earn currency just to buy more currency. There's not really anything in the premium version that is unique which makes me want to buy it, I'd just buy it for some of the additional supplies. I'm still deciding if I'd like to or not.
So I'm using a currency to buy access to a currency in order to buy currency.

Yay, MMOs.

BretonMage · April 3

Not quite sure where to post my quick thoughts, maybe here might do.

The good:

I like the ability to choose rewards from the Tomes, and am pleased the staples are all there: seals, trade bars, transmutes and tripots. Happy to see some cosmetics too, and happy that the big rewards aren't all clustered on the last page to be unlocked.

The meh:

I'm with everyone in saying the UI is one of the worst parts of the Tome experience right now. It took me a while to understand what was what in the Tome window. The Challenges UI is pretty horrible, a big black window with overly small text, tiny claim count and surprisingly long progress bars. It looks ungainly.

Also, right now, you switch to the Tome pages window by pressing the "back" button, but that doesn't feel logical because most times pressing the Tomes shortcut brings up the Challenges window, so the word "back" to the user would imply "exit". I think there should instead be a button that states clearly "Tome Pages", "Peruse Tome" or something clearer.

I was expecting a bit more from the seasonal Bazaar offerings. They aren't bad, but the choices are a bit slim.

Katheriah · April 3

I like the idea and some of the rewards. The tasks are fine.

The UI needs a bit more polishing. To me it also wasn't clear that I can only carry over 2000 points. I think that should be more obvious to players.

I was also hoping for a bit more unique furnishings instead of things we can already craft or earn. ESO has many furnishings that are in the world, but not obtainable to players.

Overall I see it as a good addition with some room to improve.

Taarente · April 3

I don't understand why tome points are removed at the end of the season. I get that you want us to use tome points, but I don't see why I should be penalised for not using, them. It's not my fault if the rewards are pretty poor and not worth spending points on.

Sordidfairytale · April 3

Second day of logging in with no log in reward. PC/NA. I was logged in at the reset, logged out (closed launcher) and relaunched ESO onto another character and still no acknowledgement of logging in.

twisttop138 · April 3

AzuraFan wrote: »

I hate that every time you complete an item, you have to claim it. It's especially bad on the gamepad UI, where a big message pops up that's really distracting until you clear it. Which isn't easy to do when you're running with a pug in a dungeon.

We didn't have to claim seals when we completed an endeavor. Can the challenges work the same way?

We're in agreement that the UI is terrible, plus white on white makes it hard to see what you're clicking on for us console plebs who are not sitting inches from the screen. I'm playing on a giant TV from my couch. I've never had this problem before. Pretty much everything about the UI is "buns" as some of my younger guild mates were calling it. Big L.

As for not having to claim it though. That's the entire point in the battle pass on our end. To claim what we want and leave what we don't. Some games make it so you have to claim everything to advance, some have a certain amount you have to claim to advance. Some only do that if you're on the free track. ESO has not done this and that's a good thing.

Edit, I read your message wrong I think. You probably meant claiming your time points. Hard agree. Just give them to me.

twisttop138 · April 3

Malyore wrote: »

Not as much unique elements in these tomes as I was expecting. Aside from the materials and currencies, and some old furnishings, there's what, like... two new style sets for weapons and armor?
I know there is a bit more than that as well, but very little I see which can expand player character identity. And also very little related to dawn and dusk besides a pinch of skill styles.

Don't get me wrong, the currencies are cool. It just feels odd to complete tasks to earn currency just to buy more currency. There's not really anything in the premium version that is unique which makes me want to buy it, I'd just buy it for some of the additional supplies. I'm still deciding if I'd like to or not.
So I'm using a currency to buy access to a currency in order to buy currency.

Yay, MMOs.

Yeah, I went through the rewards with my wife who also plays but has never experienced a battle pass before. She loves cosmetics and furnishings. She usually sees the good in rewards that I don't. To be frank, when making an in depth look at the rewards, I was pretty underwhelmed. A cursory run through made it seem like there was a ton of cool stuff but the outfits are (subjective) not great. Some of the flaming weapons are ok. But a big draw was furnishing packs. To find out they were common in game craftables was disappointing. Zos is going to have to do much better to keep this thing going. Also, premium plus only offering 4k points and a costume? Even a whale in my guild laughed. I've counseled all my members to not buy it.

That said, this is battle pass number 1. It's something that they're new at, though I would argue that they're not new at making desirable rewards, and hopefully we can tell them what we want to see in future passes and they dial it in. And for God sakes. Fix the UI.

sleepy_worm · April 3

While not perfect (the UI is a bit confusing for starters), I really appreciate this new feature. All of the benefits of the old system and more, but everything can be done on my schedule. This is definitely doing it for me.

twisttop138 · April 3

sleepy_worm wrote: »

While not perfect (the UI is a bit confusing for starters), I really appreciate this new feature. All of the benefits of the old system and more, but everything can be done on my schedule. This is definitely doing it for me.

System itself is alright. The UI is terrible and the rewards are tepid but this is their first outing. It's going to take time, and feedback for them to dial it in. I would suggest everyone make a point to leave them feedback, likes and dislikes on rewards and system. What they want to see in future tomes. That's how we make it the best it can be.

Malyore · April 3

twisttop138 wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Not as much unique elements in these tomes as I was expecting. Aside from the materials and currencies, and some old furnishings, there's what, like... two new style sets for weapons and armor?
I know there is a bit more than that as well, but very little I see which can expand player character identity. And also very little related to dawn and dusk besides a pinch of skill styles.

Don't get me wrong, the currencies are cool. It just feels odd to complete tasks to earn currency just to buy more currency. There's not really anything in the premium version that is unique which makes me want to buy it, I'd just buy it for some of the additional supplies. I'm still deciding if I'd like to or not.
So I'm using a currency to buy access to a currency in order to buy currency.

Yay, MMOs.

Yeah, I went through the rewards with my wife who also plays but has never experienced a battle pass before. She loves cosmetics and furnishings. She usually sees the good in rewards that I don't. To be frank, when making an in depth look at the rewards, I was pretty underwhelmed. A cursory run through made it seem like there was a ton of cool stuff but the outfits are (subjective) not great. Some of the flaming weapons are ok. But a big draw was furnishing packs. To find out they were common in game craftables was disappointing. Zos is going to have to do much better to keep this thing going. Also, premium plus only offering 4k points and a costume? Even a whale in my guild laughed. I've counseled all my members to not buy it.

That said, this is battle pass number 1. It's something that they're new at, though I would argue that they're not new at making desirable rewards, and hopefully we can tell them what we want to see in future passes and they dial it in. And for God sakes. Fix the UI.

For me, until they launch the VFX disabler the flaming weapons aren't even considerable as a reward. I don't like big colorful and constant VFX. Even weapon enchantments sometimes feel like they visually get in the way since the enchantments in this game don't signify what they used to in other TES games.
I like the style motif of the sword. But there's no way I would use it until I could disable its glow.

I will say I'm glad I didn't see any obnoxious vomit-paint skin included in the tome.

allochthons · April 3

Having to manually claim the "Daily" under seasonal, every day, is frustrating. Who is going to remember every day? Not to mention the "get rid of dailies, here's another" side of it.

Malyore · April 3

allochthons wrote: »

Having to manually claim the "Daily" under seasonal, every day, is frustrating. Who is going to remember every day? Not to mention the "get rid of dailies, here's another" side of it.

I think the range of what this daily is is at least still an improvement. It's not anything exclusive or on such a time limit that people can't go on vacation. It's just an extra boost to participating in tome 0.

Destai · April 3

So after sitting on this and sending a feedback video to ZOS, I can provide more organized thoughts.

Overall, the experience has been pretty mixed with some very big downsides. My feedback is as follows:
Likes:

The mixture of rewards. It's nice to see seals, outfit and skill styles, a mount, and even other currencies in this.
Being able to re-roll activities. Funnily enough, you can have duplicate activities. That was helpful with my time management.
It's something to do. I like having activities and checklists. Having that functionality back, albeit in a different form, is nice.

Dislikes (Ranked from most egregious to least):

Tome Point Expiration. This sunk the whole season for me. IMO, this one design decision sinks the system as a whole. I was pretty upset that my year's sub allotment of Tome Points would expire this one season.
Systems are not explained or intuitive. Again, the tome point expiration wasn't explained. I had a large number of Tome Points in caches, I opened them, and didn't know that they expired. No one's going to look at a help menu. The impact of my decisions need to be obvious. I don't understand why there wasn't an obvious in-game screen dedicated to explaining a brand-new, complex system. Instead we had Page 0 was focused on an U49 victory lap and the soon-to-be-released Night Market.
The UI is difficult to navigate. I can appreciate the thought behind having a more themed UI for this. I get that. But, I think that flavourful UI is done at the expense of ease-of-use. I would rather have a reskinned Crown Store, like we saw with Gold Bazaar, than this UI. It doesn't feel finished or professional quite frankly. It's hard to tell where I'm at because of the oversaturation. I'll learn to live with this, but this should be reskinned by next season if you want people to embrace this.
It's more FOMO. Granted, it's not daily, but it's still weekly. That "forces" me to play and focus on this. On one hand, that encourages participation. OTOH, it goes against the entire ethos of FOMO reduction that seemingly drove Endeavors' decommissioning. I would rather this have been treated similar to a Golden Pursuit, which is a wonderful system, where I can do the list at my leisure.
Having to collect my Trade Bars. I think they're Trade bars? Or are they Tome Points? See the confusion? Whatever I get from completing the Season Activities, I'd rather just get those automatically. One less click. I can live with this, but it could be improved.

AzuraFan · April 3

twisttop138 wrote: »

Edit, I read your message wrong I think. You probably meant claiming your time points. Hard agree. Just give them to me.

Yes, that's what I meant. Claiming your tome points. For example, I was in a dungeon yesterday, and I had the "open 1 treasure chest" challenge, which I could complete 5 or 6 times. We opened a treasure chest and the message pops up on the screen. The rest of the pug is already running away. So I left it, and now I have this message across my screen while I'm in combat and running through the dungeon. So I decide to get rid of it. On the gamepad UI, I have to press Start to go into the tome. Then I have to press Y (I think) to claim the points and watch the points be added. Then I have to press B twice, I believe, to back out. Meanwhile the rest of the group has left me in the dust.

Two minutes later, we opened the second chest. AAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!! Not again.

Please make it like endeavors used to be. Just add the points to the tome in the background.

Apart from that, I'm liking the tome, except that the tome points are skewed high for group and PvP challenges. That's not "play as you want," if "play as you want" means rewarding people equivalently for doing activities they enjoy. Instead, people are feeling like they have to keep rerolling until they get a high value challenge, which might be an activity they hate, but now they feel like they have to do it. That isn't good, and it penalizes players who really don't want to do those activities because they'll earn tome points at a slower rate and will never earn the maximum available for a tome. And some players are paying $$ for this.

Instead, ZOS should make it so that everyone earns the same number of total points from each set of weekly challenges. They can do this by adjusting the tome points rewarded, or setting up some rules up around rerolls, like you can have only 1 high-value challenge per week, or something like that. Or let players have multiple high-value challenges, but then they have a reduced number of challenges for that week. There's a lot of ways they could ensure that all players, regardless of what activities they enjoy, can earn the same number of points. It's not fair the way it's set up right now. If I was a purely solo player and didn't PvP, I'd wonder why I had to pay the same price for the premium tome if I wanted it, given that I can't earn tome points on the same level/rate as players who do enjoy those activities.

I understand this is ZOS's first tome, so maybe they didn't anticipate this, but there's no point having a range of challenges if players will always reroll to get the high value ones. And if this leadership is serious about "play as you want," they need to show it and not continue with the same old bias toward group/PvP play.

twisttop138 · April 3

Destai wrote: »

So after sitting on this and sending a feedback video to ZOS, I can provide more organized thoughts.

Overall, the experience has been pretty mixed with some very big downsides. My feedback is as follows:
Likes:
The mixture of rewards. It's nice to see seals, outfit and skill styles, a mount, and even other currencies in this.

Being able to re-roll activities. Funnily enough, you can have duplicate activities. That was helpful with my time management.

It's something to do. I like having activities and checklists. Having that functionality back, albeit in a different form, is nice.

Dislikes (Ranked from most egregious to least):
Tome Point Expiration. This sunk the whole season for me. IMO, this one design decision sinks the system as a whole. I was pretty upset that my year's sub allotment of Tome Points would expire this one season.

Systems are not explained or intuitive. Again, the tome point expiration wasn't explained. I had a large number of Tome Points in caches, I opened them, and didn't know that they expired. No one's going to look at a help menu. The impact of my decisions need to be obvious. I don't understand why there wasn't an obvious in-game screen dedicated to explaining a brand-new, complex system. Instead we had Page 0 was focused on an U49 victory lap and the soon-to-be-released Night Market.

The UI is difficult to navigate. I can appreciate the thought behind having a more themed UI for this. I get that. But, I think that flavourful UI is done at the expense of ease-of-use. I would rather have a reskinned Crown Store, like we saw with Gold Bazaar, than this UI. It doesn't feel finished or professional quite frankly. It's hard to tell where I'm at because of the oversaturation. I'll learn to live with this, but this should be reskinned by next season if you want people to embrace this.

It's more FOMO. Granted, it's not daily, but it's still weekly. That "forces" me to play and focus on this. On one hand, that encourages participation. OTOH, it goes against the entire ethos of FOMO reduction that seemingly drove Endeavors' decommissioning. I would rather this have been treated similar to a Golden Pursuit, which is a wonderful system, where I can do the list at my leisure.

Having to collect my Trade Bars. I think they're Trade bars? Or are they Tome Points? See the confusion? Whatever I get from completing the Season Activities, I'd rather just get those automatically. One less click. I can live with this, but it could be improved.

I like your list. It sums it up pretty good, though I think the rewards are a little tepid. I would say, though, that of course it's fomo. That's what battle passes are. Cool rewards that make you fear missing out on them so you engage with the gameplay loop. This is how they're gonna recoup the loss of chapter revenue, fomo is guaranteed. Even if they said they wanna reduce it. I would say they didn't get rid of endeavors to eliminate fomo but because it's redundant with tomes.

Tomes has launched with some issues for sure. Hopefully they hear the feedback.

Romilly · April 3

PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, TURN OFF THE [F] ANNOUNCEMENT WHEN WE ARE IN VET DLC TRIFECTA RUNS. ONLY HAVE IT POP UP OUTSIDE OF INSTANCED CONTENT.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

PoveusRonin · April 3

What I would really like to see is a few changes that make this more long lasting and feel better if we are going to continue with the battle pass type system.

I would like to see the weekly challenges have some sort of check mark type system. I can check no PvP and I will not see any weekly PvP options the entire season.

I think adding a page at the end with items we can repeatable claim would be great for those who don't want some of the rewards in the various pages so they aren't stuck with thousands of points to expire at the end of the season. I know it's not for everyone but some of the house items could really be in this category like the lights. I would like more lights, always more lights.

Let the system continue adding up the challenge completions without me having to stop in the middle of what I am doing and hitting F to go in and claim it. If I'm harvesting items and want to harvest all 90 before claiming, that would be a preferred option for me.

Finally, clean up the UI for this some. It's not very user friendly and if not for seeing other users showing pictures, I wouldn't have known it was possible to preview the stuff like house items. Hovering over a weapon or shield makes your character auto switch to it is also annoying. Let me choose if I want to view it. I don't like something changing cause my mouse scrolls past it.

allochthons · April 3

re: re-rolling.

Mine add up to 1995, so I got middling challenges, but I'm not going to re-roll them. I don't care enough. Nor am I in a hurry. But the Tome Points really, really should be equal for everyone, even after a re-roll. Adding Yet Another Gambling Opportunity is not cool.

To be clear, I like the re-roll option. Just not the "will I get a max TP challenge?" aspect of it.

LootAllTheStuff · April 3

AzuraFan wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

Edit, I read your message wrong I think. You probably meant claiming your time points. Hard agree. Just give them to me.

Yes, that's what I meant. Claiming your tome points. For example, I was in a dungeon yesterday, and I had the "open 1 treasure chest" challenge, which I could complete 5 or 6 times. We opened a treasure chest and the message pops up on the screen. The rest of the pug is already running away. So I left it, and now I have this message across my screen while I'm in combat and running through the dungeon. So I decide to get rid of it. On the gamepad UI, I have to press Start to go into the tome. Then I have to press Y (I think) to claim the points and watch the points be added. Then I have to press B twice, I believe, to back out. Meanwhile the rest of the group has left me in the dust.

Two minutes later, we opened the second chest. AAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!! Not again.

Please make it like endeavors used to be. Just add the points to the tome in the background..

Had the same thing with Shadow Daedra in a Bastion Nymic run. Extremely frustrating! One tip for the UI though:

* If you're in any part of the inventory UI, hitting the map button will jump you out of it no matter how many levels deep.
* Likewise, if you're in the map, hit the inventory/menu button to get out

Same thing works for crafting menus, bank, and merchants.

AzuraFan · April 3

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

Had the same thing with Shadow Daedra in a Bastion Nymic run. Extremely frustrating! One tip for the UI though:

* If you're in any part of the inventory UI, hitting the map button will jump you out of it no matter how many levels deep.
* Likewise, if you're in the map, hit the inventory/menu button to get out

Same thing works for crafting menus, bank, and merchants.

Thanks, I'll try that next time until they fix this. Cause they will fix it. Right?

twisttop138 · April 3

AzuraFan wrote: »

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

Had the same thing with Shadow Daedra in a Bastion Nymic run. Extremely frustrating! One tip for the UI though:

* If you're in any part of the inventory UI, hitting the map button will jump you out of it no matter how many levels deep.
* Likewise, if you're in the map, hit the inventory/menu button to get out

Same thing works for crafting menus, bank, and merchants.

Thanks, I'll try that next time until they fix this. Cause they will fix it. Right?

I hope so. Do what fallout does. It makes a noise and a small pop up on the side of the screen to tell you that you've advanced and gotten currency. At the very least.

z32 · April 3

In general I like the system, weekly challenges instead of daily, extra choice of rewards, the trade bars replacing tickets and more choices to spend them, adding eso+ rewards from previous years.

Few things I do not like.
As many pointed out the Claim mechanics for tome points is bad idea and should be replace with autoclaim. What would be the reason for player not to claim tome points from challenges? If the answer is no reason, then tome points from challenges always should be autoclaimed in background like seals were. Other players already explained how distracting it can be to have this message pop up and it can lead to tome points being lost as well. Removing this message and leaving system as is will definitely result in tome points loss.
2000 cap of tome points for season roll over is another unpleasant surprise, why?

Mik195 · April 3

I don't even understand this whole thing. My EU PC character had open treasure chests and pick clothing resources and whenever I did one of them I got points. Ny PC NA had pick up blacksmithing nodes and when I picked one up, I get nothing. I would have expected that all the crafting resources would behave similarly.

ESO_player123 · April 3

Mik195 wrote: »

I don't even understand this whole thing. My EU PC character had open treasure chests and pick clothing resources and whenever I did one of them I got points. Ny PC NA had pick up blacksmithing nodes and when I picked one up, I get nothing. I would have expected that all the crafting resources would behave similarly.

Do you have the same challenges on both servers?