Why the one bar build hate? It needs to stop - some players do not like weapon swapping.

Athory · March 31

Blood_again wrote: »

Did you just try to gatekeep the strong groups and players from pugging and using GroupFinder? While blaming them for gatekeeping? huh?

oO why would someone do that!?

@JiubLeRepenti "It's been 11 years like that and it'll never change, no matter what you think/want."
No, it hasn’t been 11 years like that. Oakensoul was released in Update 35 and got nerfed on the PTS, in Update 36 or 37 if I’m not mistaken. It was nerfed again, along with HA tick behavior and Empower, because Arcanist was about to be released… funny, right?
And since then, something happened to HA, because now they don’t even trigger the way they always did. You press the button and… nothing happens. It just whiffs, lol.

This is where all the "hate" toward 1bar players started.

But anyway… yes, there’s nothing I can do. Just complaining and arguing about all this nonsense, while keeping my point clear: one-bar builds can complete any content in Veteran or HM.

Renato90085 · March 31

why people always argue about things that are unimportant and different.

JiubLeRepenti · March 31

No, it hasn’t been 11 years like that.

Yes, it has. It’s not just about the Oakensoul Ring: it’s about the broader relationship between endgame players and casual or newer players, as well as the gap between high CP and low CP.

Even back in 2018, when I started doing trials in ESO, you could get kicked from vAS, vCR, or vHoF if your DPS, build, or overall level was considered too low.

It’s exactly the same in random dungeons: some players want to take their time, do quests, and care about the lore, while others just want to speed-run a dungeon they’ve already done 100+ times. And each group criticizes the other for different reasons.

That’s just how it is, and it will probably always be that way.

Oakensoul/HA players will always be judged by a few people for it, and sometimes they’ll even be kicked from groups because of it. There’s not much you can do about it.

frogthroat · March 31

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

It’s not just about the Oakensoul Ring: it’s about the broader relationship between endgame players and casual or newer players, as well as the gap between high CP and low CP.

And besides Oakensoul being frowned upon by some players, try to go to a Group Finder trial that has a lot of flame damage and while grouping in the lobby run around as stage 4 vamp or streak around with the vampire streak ability.

Or put on PO, or toggle Simmering Frenzy and see what the healers will say when they see the health bar on top of your head go from blue to darker shade.

frogthroat · March 31

Athory wrote: »

one-bar builds can complete any content in Veteran or HM.

Yes, but if other people don't want to play with those who use Oakensoul builds, nothing you can do about it. I know you prefer PUGs and Group Finder, and dislike Discord based guilds, but funnily enough I have the opposite but for the same reasons. I prefer to find a guild where players are like-minded and play with them. And there are so many different guilds. I am sure you can find an all-one-bar-builds guild. Or at least one bar friendly guild.

With randoms there are some strange players sometimes. Recently, when I was levelling up my last remaining skill lines to my last characters I ran a lot as a healer and did a random normal dungeon for the daily XP. One per day per missing character. On one run our tank started immediately complaining if we are going to finish the dungeon with our level 46 and CP400 DDs. Some time after the first boss (some newer DLC dungeon, can't remember which) the tank just left because the DDs were not doing enough for their liking. When they said "the healer is good though" I almost said bad words. Yeah, I am well over CP2000 (which I assume is the only thing he checked) but was playing with 3 healer skills, while my back bar had s&b for levelling. The DDs were doing a better job at their role than I was in mine. After he left we started to advance faster because we didn't need to stop for a complaint rant after each trash pull. So this CP1000 "pro" player was hindering us with the complaints.

These things happen. That's why I prefer to have a vetted group where we organise in Discord.

Orbital78 · March 31

frogthroat wrote: »

Or put on PO, or toggle Simmering Frenzy and see what the healers will say when they see the health bar on top of your head go from blue to darker shade.

I usually don't say anything, I assume they are confident about keeping themselves alive. If it becomes an issue, I will mention it but if they die, they die. It isn't super often that I even notice it.

frogthroat wrote: »

With randoms there are some strange players sometimes. Recently, when I was levelling up my last remaining skill lines to my last characters I ran a lot as a healer and did a random normal dungeon for the daily XP. One per day per missing character. On one run our tank started immediately complaining if we are going to finish the dungeon with our level 46 and CP400 DDs. Some time after the first boss (some newer DLC dungeon, can't remember which) the tank just left because the DDs were not doing enough for their liking. When they said "the healer is good though" I almost said bad words. Yeah, I am well over CP2000 (which I assume is the only thing he checked) but was playing with 3 healer skills, while my back bar had s&b for levelling. The DDs were doing a better job at their role than I was in mine. After he left we started to advance faster because we didn't need to stop for a complaint rant after each trash pull. So this CP1000 "pro" player was hindering us with the complaints.

These things happen. That's why I prefer to have a vetted group where we organise in Discord.

CP definitely matters, but I have been running into plenty of CP1000-2000's that cannot even out perform a standard nerfed heavy attack build. Sometimes even when I am running SPC as a hybrid healer. On one of my guild discords I shared the two main setups I use for heavy attacks and beaming to try and help newer players build up. Maybe the pugs of issue don't use discord or are just unwilling to learn and get better. If it is a pug without discord, I am kind of unwilling to put in the effort to teach them though as voice/discord is the only place I really communicate in depth. Not that I am the best player, with only mostly partial hard modes and considering myself mid tier.

I've received some hate when running my heavy attack builds, especially when hybrid healing. But they are often just trying to be a turd it seems. I asked them one time, "But have you died?" The only time he died was when he kept nagging and I had to stop and switch from controller to a keyboard to type that out. Most players just care that you can do the content and just want to get it over with. I've even healed some of the hard modes (without being asked) and being able to usually get through it, assuming the group was also up to that level. I see people specifically say no oakensouls or heavy attack builds in higher end discords or group finders, when it really shouldn't be an issue for that content. But they are the raid leader and it kind of is what it is. It won't help people want to run with them, unless they are really that much of a Billy.

At the end of the day, I think oakensoul is fine where it is. I think destruction stave passives, empower, and Rakkhat's voidmantle may need some buffs. For some older hard modes you're probably going to be okay but most newer hard modes I don't feel heavy attack builds are up to par. vRG, vSE, vDSR, vLC, and vOC hardmodes at least.

twisttop138 · March 31

frogthroat wrote: »

Athory wrote: »

one-bar builds can complete any content in Veteran or HM.

Yes, but if other people don't want to play with those who use Oakensoul builds, nothing you can do about it. I know you prefer PUGs and Group Finder, and dislike Discord based guilds, but funnily enough I have the opposite but for the same reasons. I prefer to find a guild where players are like-minded and play with them. And there are so many different guilds. I am sure you can find an all-one-bar-builds guild. Or at least one bar friendly guild.

With randoms there are some strange players sometimes. Recently, when I was levelling up my last remaining skill lines to my last characters I ran a lot as a healer and did a random normal dungeon for the daily XP. One per day per missing character. On one run our tank started immediately complaining if we are going to finish the dungeon with our level 46 and CP400 DDs. Some time after the first boss (some newer DLC dungeon, can't remember which) the tank just left because the DDs were not doing enough for their liking. When they said "the healer is good though" I almost said bad words. Yeah, I am well over CP2000 (which I assume is the only thing he checked) but was playing with 3 healer skills, while my back bar had s&b for levelling. The DDs were doing a better job at their role than I was in mine. After he left we started to advance faster because we didn't need to stop for a complaint rant after each trash pull. So this CP1000 "pro" player was hindering us with the complaints.

These things happen. That's why I prefer to have a vetted group where we organise in Discord.

This is the long and short of it right here. Random will be random. My organized groups where we post trials in discord are always better. Expectations are set. This is a learning run, no requirements but no promises of clearing. This is an open run. This is a hard mode trainer, there will be requirements. This way everyone knows what they're in for. I'm learning to tank. I would never jump into some group finder run with strangers and expect them to run while I learn to do an important job.

It doesn't matter if you play 1 bar or 2 bars or 17 bars with duel wield toasters. I've been doing group content in MMOs for a couple decades, there will always be people that wanna run it their way or act like an ass. What matters is having the attitude that you're here to play, you're open to learn and you act with respect. If you do these things, you will find the groups of people that are the right fit for you and will have a great time.

frogthroat · April 1

Orbital78 wrote: »

I usually don't say anything, I assume they are confident about keeping themselves alive. If it becomes an issue, I will mention it but if they die, they die. It isn't super often that I even notice it.

Yeah... I usually don't pug, but when I do something monotone, repetitive, I don't want to subject my friends to that. But recently I levelled up my missing weapon skill lines with all characters, s&b and resto were the last ones so I typically ran as a healer. So anyway, I have recently done a lot of RNDs with pugs.

And yeah, on one run both DDs had dark blue health bars. I didn't say anything, just concentrated on keeping the tank alive. When they both died a couple of times I mentioned that PO heal diminishes by 4% per person you are grouped with. They took the rings off. I suppose slotting Reaving Blows would make PO viable in 4 player group, but still, if you have a healer why not go for a full damage build?

Orbital78 wrote: »

CP definitely matters,

Not in normal dungeons. Nothing matters in normal dungeons. (Ok, there are a few newer DLC dungeons where you actually have to pay attention even on normal, but still.)

Orbital78 wrote: »

but I have been running into plenty of CP1000-2000's that cannot even out perform a standard nerfed heavy attack build.

Oh for sure. Not only that, standing in red so I can't help the tank with resources or buffs, or heal the other DD, because you are now hogging my whole time because you don't want to take two steps left.

...well, I don't do that for long. Tank is the priority, if you die, you die.

But yeah, sometimes the CP300 player outperforms the CP2000 players. That happens surprisingly often. But if it's in normal mode, I don't care. Nothing is true, everything is permitted in normal dungeons.

Orbital78 wrote: »

I've received some hate when running my heavy attack builds, especially when hybrid healing. But they are often just trying to be a turd it seems. I asked them one time, "But have you died?" The only time he died was when he kept nagging and I had to stop and switch from controller to a keyboard to type that out.

Should have said "I'm ROJO."

Orbital78 wrote: »

I see people specifically say no oakensouls or heavy attack builds in higher end discords or group finders, when it really shouldn't be an issue for that content.

Yeah, and it's weird that people still think heavy attack build = Oakensoul build.

I get close to a normal DD dps with a Rakkhat heavy attack build -- not quite there, but close. At the same time tankier, better sustain and survivability, and have plenty of time to look around and not just parse. So yeah, especially the survivability with only a minor loss of dps is a good selling point.

Oakensoul, however, has its places but I don't think I would ever take that to any highest level content. Those who need or prefer an easier playstyle where you don't need to care about bar swapping or keeping buffs up, it is excellent. But people should stop the extreme polarisation of the issue. It's not the best thing since sliced bread, and it's not the worst thing ever. It's pretty good for what it can do, and not completely bad in higher content either. There are better options, but unless you are going for a fully optimised group, it's enough in most cases.

Orbital78 wrote: »

At the end of the day, I think oakensoul is fine where it is. I think destruction stave passives, empower, and Rakkhat's voidmantle may need some buffs.

Yeah, at least sources of empower if nothing else.

You could use Wield Soul with empower script, NB ... um... the wrong morph of the one you use to proc Rush of Agony in PVP but unused in PVE, or that three area Necro attack that no one uses, but those are imo waste of slot space in PVE. Wield Soul would be the only reasonable from those three but even then you would want to use something else instead of empower, like crit, weapon damage, recovery or resolve.

Currently the only viable methods of gaining empower, besides Oakensoul, are any mages guild skill, Solar Barrage and the unused morph of the Igneous Weapons. Whatever that was called. Molten Weapons, or something.

If you don't have DK or Templar skill lines, you need a mages guild skill and there aren't that many useful ones. So it's pretty much Ulfsild's Contingency or Degen, but since Mages empower lasts for only 10 seconds, you need to recast them before they end. Half of the cast goes to waste.

And since lightning staff heavies are 2.2 second channel, you can fit 4 of them in that 10 second window. So every 4th cast has to be the Mages Guild skill just for the buff. (So, every 8.8 seconds.) With Grave Lord blastbones is so strong that it is worth to have it every 3rd cast, but to have every 4th cast just for this buff is a bit annoying.

Hang on, my crafter/survey map collector/treasure map digger/scying (which uses the Rakkhat HA build) is a Templar. Why do I use Ulfsild and not Solar Barrage? I think I need to tweak the build a bit.

twisttop138 · April 1

frogthroat wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

I usually don't say anything, I assume they are confident about keeping themselves alive. If it becomes an issue, I will mention it but if they die, they die. It isn't super often that I even notice it.

Yeah... I usually don't pug, but when I do something monotone, repetitive, I don't want to subject my friends to that. But recently I levelled up my missing weapon skill lines with all characters, s&b and resto were the last ones so I typically ran as a healer. So anyway, I have recently done a lot of RNDs with pugs.

And yeah, on one run both DDs had dark blue health bars. I didn't say anything, just concentrated on keeping the tank alive. When they both died a couple of times I mentioned that PO heal diminishes by 4% per person you are grouped with. They took the rings off. I suppose slotting Reaving Blows would make PO viable in 4 player group, but still, if you have a healer why not go for a full damage build?

Orbital78 wrote: »

CP definitely matters,

Not in normal dungeons. Nothing matters in normal dungeons. (Ok, there are a few newer DLC dungeons where you actually have to pay attention even on normal, but still.)

Orbital78 wrote: »

but I have been running into plenty of CP1000-2000's that cannot even out perform a standard nerfed heavy attack build.

Oh for sure. Not only that, standing in red so I can't help the tank with resources or buffs, or heal the other DD, because you are now hogging my whole time because you don't want to take two steps left.

...well, I don't do that for long. Tank is the priority, if you die, you die.

But yeah, sometimes the CP300 player outperforms the CP2000 players. That happens surprisingly often. But if it's in normal mode, I don't care. Nothing is true, everything is permitted in normal dungeons.

Orbital78 wrote: »

I've received some hate when running my heavy attack builds, especially when hybrid healing. But they are often just trying to be a turd it seems. I asked them one time, "But have you died?" The only time he died was when he kept nagging and I had to stop and switch from controller to a keyboard to type that out.

Should have said "I'm ROJO."

Orbital78 wrote: »

I see people specifically say no oakensouls or heavy attack builds in higher end discords or group finders, when it really shouldn't be an issue for that content.

Yeah, and it's weird that people still think heavy attack build = Oakensoul build.

I get close to a normal DD dps with a Rakkhat heavy attack build -- not quite there, but close. At the same time tankier, better sustain and survivability, and have plenty of time to look around and not just parse. So yeah, especially the survivability with only a minor loss of dps is a good selling point.

Oakensoul, however, has its places but I don't think I would ever take that to any highest level content. Those who need or prefer an easier playstyle where you don't need to care about bar swapping or keeping buffs up, it is excellent. But people should stop the extreme polarisation of the issue. It's not the best thing since sliced bread, and it's not the worst thing ever. It's pretty good for what it can do, and not completely bad in higher content either. There are better options, but unless you are going for a fully optimised group, it's enough in most cases.

Orbital78 wrote: »

At the end of the day, I think oakensoul is fine where it is. I think destruction stave passives, empower, and Rakkhat's voidmantle may need some buffs.

Yeah, at least sources of empower if nothing else.

You could use Wield Soul with empower script, NB ... um... the wrong morph of the one you use to proc Rush of Agony in PVP but unused in PVE, or that three area Necro attack that no one uses, but those are imo waste of slot space in PVE. Wield Soul would be the only reasonable from those three but even then you would want to use something else instead of empower, like crit, weapon damage, recovery or resolve.

Currently the only viable methods of gaining empower, besides Oakensoul, are any mages guild skill, Solar Barrage and the unused morph of the Igneous Weapons. Whatever that was called. Molten Weapons, or something.

If you don't have DK or Templar skill lines, you need a mages guild skill and there aren't that many useful ones. So it's pretty much Ulfsild's Contingency or Degen, but since Mages empower lasts for only 10 seconds, you need to recast them before they end. Half of the cast goes to waste.

And since lightning staff heavies are 2.2 second channel, you can fit 4 of them in that 10 second window. So every 4th cast has to be the Mages Guild skill just for the buff. (So, every 8.8 seconds.) With Grave Lord blastbones is so strong that it is worth to have it every 3rd cast, but to have every 4th cast just for this buff is a bit annoying.

Hang on, my crafter/survey map collector/treasure map digger/scying (which uses the Rakkhat HA build) is a Templar. Why do I use Ulfsild and not Solar Barrage? I think I need to tweak the build a bit.

Sorry, I would've edited it down to the parts I wanted to respond to but that's too fancy for me this early.

You're not wrong about players with void mantle doing decent damage, even if it has a ceiling. Our DB prog had 2 and I regularly raid with one and never feel like they're being carried. Oakensoul and the attitude around some people has soured players to 1 bar builds unfortunately. I would argue though, that if a group is gonna say you can't come then are they a group you really want to play with anyway? I think it's important to find the right group for you. People don't want to often because it takes time. Trial and error. But if you put the effort in, find amazing people to play with, you only benefit in the end.

Athory · April 1

Well, yesterday I decided to run a simple test. I created a Group Finder with two basic rules:

CP 800+
DD's must use any onebar build

We started with vRG. As expected, the first few pulls were chaotic, classic pug energy, and a couple of players clearly joined just to troll. After removing them, the group settled, and we cleared in 48 minutes. Honestly, that’s a perfectly respectable time.

Next, I formed a vDSR group with the same rules. Not everyone stayed, some new players joined, but the overall skill level remained similar.

Twins: two wipes, then a clean clear.
In Reef Guardian, it was obvious some players didn’t know the mechanics, so I stepped in to help with Reef 1 (since I can handle it solo). After adjusting assignments and one more wipe, we cleared it as well. Again, not bad at all.
Final boss: I handled all bridges with two other DD's. After one wipe, we cleared the trial

The run wasn’t flawless or highly organized, but everyone understood the basics and, more importantly, the group worked well together.
Final time: 1 hour 21 minutes. For a pug with onebar DD's, that’s genuinely solid.

My conclusion:
I’m finally taking the advice I’ve seen repeated on the forums:
“Create your own group.” And it turns out… it works.

Usually play with pugs, and since I already have all the items from every trial. I join pug groups just to help, but I’ve realized I’ve been helping the wrong players. 2bar players don’t need someone like me, they can already carry themselves. Onebar players, on the other hand, may benefit massively from a stable, supportive environment.
So from now on, I’m creating groups exclusively for onebar players.

Here’s what I’ve noticed:

The biggest improvement comes from filtering out trolls. Once they’re gone, the group’s performance jumps immediately.
Onebar players aren’t bad, they’re inexperienced or lack confidence. Many play cautiously, almost fearfully, instead of comfortably engaging with the game.

Personal Note:

I genuinely want to help onebar players improve and feel more confident in the game. I’m convinced I can make a real difference for them. Instead of spending my time with players who only gatekeep and contribute little to the group, I’d rather invest that time in helping those who actually want to learn, improve, and enjoy the game. And i will.

twisttop138 · April 1

Athory wrote: »

Well, yesterday I decided to run a simple test. I created a Group Finder with two basic rules:
CP 800+

DD's must use any onebar build

We started with vRG. As expected, the first few pulls were chaotic, classic pug energy, and a couple of players clearly joined just to troll. After removing them, the group settled, and we cleared in 48 minutes. Honestly, that’s a perfectly respectable time.

Next, I formed a vDSR group with the same rules. Not everyone stayed, some new players joined, but the overall skill level remained similar.
Twins: two wipes, then a clean clear.

In Reef Guardian, it was obvious some players didn’t know the mechanics, so I stepped in to help with Reef 1 (since I can handle it solo). After adjusting assignments and one more wipe, we cleared it as well. Again, not bad at all.

Final boss: I handled all bridges with two other DD's. After one wipe, we cleared the trial

The run wasn’t flawless or highly organized, but everyone understood the basics and, more importantly, the group worked well together.
Final time: 1 hour 21 minutes. For a pug with onebar DD's, that’s genuinely solid.

My conclusion:
I’m finally taking the advice I’ve seen repeated on the forums:
“Create your own group.” And it turns out… it works.

Usually play with pugs, and since I already have all the items from every trial. I join pug groups just to help, but I’ve realized I’ve been helping the wrong players. 2bar players don’t need someone like me, they can already carry themselves. Onebar players, on the other hand, may benefit massively from a stable, supportive environment.
So from now on, I’m creating groups exclusively for onebar players.

Here’s what I’ve noticed:
The biggest improvement comes from filtering out trolls. Once they’re gone, the group’s performance jumps immediately.

Onebar players aren’t bad, they’re inexperienced or lack confidence. Many play cautiously, almost fearfully, instead of comfortably engaging with the game.

Personal Note:
I genuinely want to help onebar players improve and feel more confident in the game. I’m convinced I can make a real difference for them. Instead of spending my time with players who only gatekeep and contribute little to the group, I’d rather invest that time in helping those who actually want to learn, improve, and enjoy the game. And i will.

This is good. I'm happy to hear that someone took the advice, ran with it, and saw it work in real time. Finding people that wanna play the way you want to can only be a good thing. We're in control, right? Now imagine you started a guild on these values, and people find it and find their place. Good stuff right? We have a social guild with weekly vet training. No requirements. Just sign up. We always fill, and we mostly clear. We're teaching vDSR at the moment, it's the only trial we can't farm besides vOC. For social casual players, 1 and 2 bar, they're doing really good. Anyone could have this home for players, I'm not just meaning you. If you look, you will find what you want. If all you see is gatekeeping elitists, it's all you'll find.

Nice job man. I hope you keep it up.

frogthroat · April 1

Athory wrote: »

So from now on, I’m creating groups exclusively for onebar players.

PCNA or PCEU? Only onebars or are 2bar HA builds also accepted? What's your in-game nic?

Taarente · April 1

i use one bar builds, two bar builds, heavy attack builds, tank builds whatever, wherever i choose. Play HOW you want to play and play WHAT you want to play. Anyone who says you can’t… is talking out their ass anyway. You’re more useful being able to read the situation do steady damage keep yourself up and support the group/team/whoever than some 190K parse (total bs anyway) 2 bar glass cannon lying dead on the floor. ZOS does not make content that dictates how many bars you need to use.

Casul · April 1

Loving my one bar HA setup. 80k DPS with a chill rotation, don’t even have my voidmantle yet which will help a bunch.

But. I am also only doing vet HM base dungeons and vet dlc dungeons, nothing related to trials yet. If the content dictated higher DPS and the only way to get it was 2 bars then I would swap.

Athory · April 1

frogthroat wrote: »

Athory wrote: »

So from now on, I’m creating groups exclusively for onebar players.

PCNA or PCEU? Only onebars or are 2bar HA builds also accepted? What's your in-game nic?

@Zaan's PC-EU

(Only One Bar) I really don’t want DD'S (DPS) in 2bars in my groups. Good or bad, I simply don’t want them. If we can complete the content, we will do that. If not, then I hope we all understand why we can’t complete it.

HA 2bar builds are welcome too. I know it’s a bit hard to explain the difference between a 1bar build and a 2bar HA build, but I hope you understand what I mean. I also use a 2bar setup for my HA build, so yeah…
Maybe I’m just looking for players who are overlooked because of their playstyle. If you use the Oakensoul Ring or Rakkhat’s Voidmantle, then I’m definitely looking for you, but even I sometimes don’t use either… so… If anyone has a better way to explain the difference between a 1bar build and a 2bar HA build, let me know, because honestly, even I find it hard to explain clearly.

EDIT:
Do you feel sad\angry every time you read "no HA players" or "no Oakensoul players" in the PuG's group finder, and don’t join because of that? These are exactly the players I’m looking for. The ones who are afraid to join, afraid of being kicked, or feel that RL are excluding them.

Orbital78 · April 1

frogthroat wrote: »

Not in normal dungeons. Nothing matters in normal dungeons. (Ok, there are a few newer DLC dungeons where you actually have to pay attention even on normal, but still.)

True, to be clear this was more talking about random vets. If I do dungeons, it is mostly to farm motifs. I did do a little stretch of filling stickerbook items on normals. Queue 4 stickerbook addon, shouts out. The only dungeons I was worried about dps tanking/healing on were the Solstice DLC dungeons. Those might need adjusting armor/setup but healing them was quite fine.

frogthroat wrote: »

But yeah, sometimes the CP300 player outperforms the CP2000 players. That happens surprisingly often. But if it's in normal mode, I don't care. Nothing is true, everything is permitted in normal dungeons.

It happens a lot with tanks as well, there is so much missing mitigation that they are going to struggle, especially in the newer vet dlc's. DPS wise I have met a few console transfers that were like 600CP and near the top dps back when I was pugging with a group steadily around Blackwood era. Arcanist bridged that gap even better, but a lot of newer players jump into vet, seeing people just faceroll and carry normals and they aren't ready yet.

frogthroat wrote: »

Yeah, at least sources of empower if nothing else.

You could use Wield Soul with empower script, NB ... um... the wrong morph of the one you use to proc Rush of Agony in PVP but unused in PVE, or that three area Necro attack that no one uses, but those are imo waste of slot space in PVE. Wield Soul would be the only reasonable from those three but even then you would want to use something else instead of empower, like crit, weapon damage, recovery or resolve.

Currently the only viable methods of gaining empower, besides Oakensoul, are any mages guild skill, Solar Barrage and the unused morph of the Igneous Weapons. Whatever that was called. Molten Weapons, or something.

If you don't have DK or Templar skill lines, you need a mages guild skill and there aren't that many useful ones. So it's pretty much Ulfsild's Contingency or Degen, but since Mages empower lasts for only 10 seconds, you need to recast them before they end. Half of the cast goes to waste.

And since lightning staff heavies are 2.2 second channel, you can fit 4 of them in that 10 second window. So every 4th cast has to be the Mages Guild skill just for the buff. (So, every 8.8 seconds.) With Grave Lord blastbones is so strong that it is worth to have it every 3rd cast, but to have every 4th cast just for this buff is a bit annoying.

Hang on, my crafter/survey map collector/treasure map digger/scying (which uses the Rakkhat HA build) is a Templar. Why do I use Ulfsild and not Solar Barrage? I think I need to tweak the build a bit.

I gave the voidmantle a shot while it was new, I used my main templar with solar barrage. I also setup my main sorcerer heavy attack with it too. The sorc mostly used mages guild contingency. I found my dps numbers in actual content were not that much greater than with oakensoul. The full loss of heavy attack mag regen ruined the feel for me as well. I may give it another shot eventually if the class rebalances add some empower to sorcs. I do well enough with arcanist to do most trials and probably a decent amount of hard modes (I already completed quite a few with the arc and heavy attacks).

Orbital78 · April 1

Athory wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Athory wrote: »

So from now on, I’m creating groups exclusively for onebar players.

PCNA or PCEU? Only onebars or are 2bar HA builds also accepted? What's your in-game nic?

@Zaan's PC-EU

(Only One Bar) I really don’t want DD'S (DPS) in 2bars in my groups. Good or bad, I simply don’t want them. If we can complete the content, we will do that. If not, then I hope we all understand why we can’t complete it.

HA 2bar builds are welcome too. I know it’s a bit hard to explain the difference between a 1bar build and a 2bar HA build, but I hope you understand what I mean. I also use a 2bar setup for my HA build, so yeah…
Maybe I’m just looking for players who are overlooked because of their playstyle. If you use the Oakensoul Ring or Rakkhat’s Voidmantle, then I’m definitely looking for you, but even I sometimes don’t use either… so… If anyone has a better way to explain the difference between a 1bar build and a 2bar HA build, let me know, because honestly, even I find it hard to explain clearly.

EDIT:
Do you feel sad\angry every time you read "no HA players" or "no Oakensoul players" in the PuG's group finder, and don’t join because of that? These are exactly the players I’m looking for. The ones who are afraid to join, afraid of being kicked, or feel that RL are excluding them.

How did vOC go? I would be very surprised if you complete Bahsei HM with heavy attacks/one bars. Limiting what builds people can use, given they are viable dps wise seems hypocritical.

I am not mad or sad when I see no heavy attacks, I kind of chuckle and look at my full stickerbook which was mostly earned with those heavy attack builds. I rarely use the group finder, but when I look for s.giggles I do see the random, "carry me please" listings with silly requirements. I also look at my guild discords with multiple listings that I can join at will and have much more fun and comradery.

frogthroat · April 1

Athory wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Athory wrote: »

So from now on, I’m creating groups exclusively for onebar players.

PCNA or PCEU? Only onebars or are 2bar HA builds also accepted? What's your in-game nic?

@Zaan's PC-EU

(Only One Bar) I really don’t want DD'S (DPS) in 2bars in my groups. Good or bad, I simply don’t want them. If we can complete the content, we will do that. If not, then I hope we all understand why we can’t complete it.

HA 2bar builds are welcome too. I know it’s a bit hard to explain the difference between a 1bar build and a 2bar HA build, but I hope you understand what I mean. I also use a 2bar setup for my HA build, so yeah…
Maybe I’m just looking for players who are overlooked because of their playstyle. If you use the Oakensoul Ring or Rakkhat’s Voidmantle, then I’m definitely looking for you, but even I sometimes don’t use either… so… If anyone has a better way to explain the difference between a 1bar build and a 2bar HA build, let me know, because honestly, even I find it hard to explain clearly.

EDIT:
Do you feel sad\angry every time you read "no HA players" or "no Oakensoul players" in the PuG's group finder, and don’t join because of that? These are exactly the players I’m looking for. The ones who are afraid to join, afraid of being kicked, or feel that RL are excluding them.

PCEU? Perfect. I might come and see a run at some point, then. Still missing some perfected gear so especially if the trial is one where I need some gear. You can also add me and if you need supports (everyone wanna dps) /w me. I don't really play one bars or HA builds much, but like I mentioned, I have the crafter that used to use Oakensoul, nowadays Rakkhat.

In any case, I'll keep my eye open. And if you are missing some supports, feel free to /w me to fill in.

playsforfun · April 1

Athory wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Athory wrote: »

So from now on, I’m creating groups exclusively for onebar players.

PCNA or PCEU? Only onebars or are 2bar HA builds also accepted? What's your in-game nic?

@Zaan's PC-EU

(Only One Bar) I really don’t want DD'S (DPS) in 2bars in my groups. Good or bad, I simply don’t want them. If we can complete the content, we will do that. If not, then I hope we all understand why we can’t complete it.

HA 2bar builds are welcome too. I know it’s a bit hard to explain the difference between a 1bar build and a 2bar HA build, but I hope you understand what I mean. I also use a 2bar setup for my HA build, so yeah…
Maybe I’m just looking for players who are overlooked because of their playstyle. If you use the Oakensoul Ring or Rakkhat’s Voidmantle, then I’m definitely looking for you, but even I sometimes don’t use either… so… If anyone has a better way to explain the difference between a 1bar build and a 2bar HA build, let me know, because honestly, even I find it hard to explain clearly.

EDIT:
Do you feel sad\angry every time you read "no HA players" or "no Oakensoul players" in the PuG's group finder, and don’t join because of that? These are exactly the players I’m looking for. The ones who are afraid to join, afraid of being kicked, or feel that RL are excluding them.

You should start a guild, I like what you have been posting, I'd join for sure.

Athory · April 1

Orbital78 wrote: »

How did vOC go? I would be very surprised if you complete Bahsei HM with heavy attacks/one bars. Limiting what builds people can use, given they are viable dps wise seems hypocritical.

I am not mad or sad when I see no heavy attacks, I kind of chuckle and look at my full stickerbook which was mostly earned with those heavy attack builds. I rarely use the group finder, but when I look for s.giggles I do see the random, "carry me please" listings with silly requirements. I also look at my guild discords with multiple listings that I can join at will and have much more fun and comradery.

Until today, there hasn’t been a single piece of content I couldn’t complete because of HA. I have never, ever, changed from my HA build just because someone said, “It’s impossible with this.”

That said, apart from vAS HM, I had never fully participated in an HA only run. What I’m saying is that I never even tried things like vRG HM, vOC HM, vDSR HM, or others with a full HA group.

But here’s the thing: I have done vOC speed run on my HA. In fact, all the speed runs and HMs I’ve completed were first done on HA. The reason is simple. I’m more comfortable on my HA when attempting achievements. Once I learn and complete them, then I can go back and do them on a 2-bar setup. But the first clear is always on HA.

Did players carry me? Probably. But when I switch to 2bars, or stay in HA, do I carry others? Probably. I don’t see any problem with that, even if many players do.

If you prefer to run with your Discord group, that’s perfectly fine. I’m not trying to change your mind.
As for me, I prefer to stay out of Discord. Maybe I’ve just had bad experiences, but in every group I’ve been part of, all I’ve seen is BS.

Athory · April 1

When they react like this:,

to this:

you really understand you’re doing great work. And let me tell you something: I know the hate is nothing compared to what ZOS shouldn’t allow, but every PM I’ve received and every message in group from people who join just to troll is way beyond that.
And you know what? I honestly love it. It only gives me more reasons to keep going forward. ^^