Make Tales of Tribute a PVE-Focused Side Game

El_Borracho · March 24

At this point, ToT has to be viewed as a flop. Two opinions that haunt ToT: (1) Its a complicated game that takes a long time to understand, and (2) Its an overall miserable experience when playing against other players. At some point, the already tiny PVP population is going to evaporate altogether, along with the game. But I think if it was rebooted as a PVE-centric game, it could be more accessible to players, more fun, and maybe even drive some to play the PVP version.

Red Dead Redemption 2 had several gambling games versus NPCs that were quite fun. You bet your in-game cash against the NPCs in the hopes of winning more. Some games were tied to side quests and achievements. Why not do that here with ToT? Expand it to all inns and taverns. Have the agents based on where you are in Tamriel for variety. Wager gold to win more gold.

If you were afraid of this creating too much gold in ESO, make it like a Chuck-E-Cheese where you win tickets to cash in for prizes like materials, motifs, gear, etc. Or just use another currency like they do with Cyrodiil or IA. Eliminate the novice, proficient, and expert designations and instead make it the more you wager, the more difficult the NPC. The more you win, the higher level rewards you receive for that game.

Its worth a try. ToT can't get any worse

EDIT: Not looking to eliminate the PVP portion, in case anyone wondered

SolarRune · March 24

I enjoy PVP TOT and that's the only version of the game I play, would be disappointed for it to be converted to PVE only.

El_Borracho · March 24

SolarRune wrote: »

I enjoy PVP TOT and that's the only version of the game I play, would be disappointed for it to be converted to PVE only.

Wasn't saying PVE only. Sorry for the confusion. Was hoping to expand it for PVE to give more incentives to play. PVP can stay as is.

Xarc · March 24

I tried my hand at this game very recently.
The least we can say is that it is not easy to understand.
In addition to being complicated, it is very poorly explained in the quest tutorial and in the help by typing f1 in game. Even the YouTubers had trouble explaining, most people in the comments said the same thing...

The concept is really nice though, and the strategies are really good.

I think the way the game is explained/taught needs to be improved.

And I think pvp/pve versions should coexist.

ESO_player123 · March 24

Personally, I would not be interested in gambling gold (just not my thing at all).
However, are you suggesting to give some rewards exclusively to PvE side of ToT? I would not like that since I find playing against NPC extremely boring.

robwolf666 · March 24

Yeah.. I hate losing to other players too... constantly... whenever I try it. 😏

FlameDark · March 24

Only if it can be like the Witcher where I can ask pretty much every NPC to play cards. King Jorunn, Mannimarco, Razum-Dar, Molag Bal... Nobody would be safe from me wanting another round of ToT!

Tyrobag · March 24

I would definitely agree. The game is actually fun, but I have no interest in playing against players. NPCs give practically no rewards or club experience, and everything telling you to play ToT requires you PvP in order to count. I would actually interact with it more than twice a year if I could just play NPCs on my own time and actually get the rewards from the system (plus NPCs don't rage quit, which I've noticed is particularly common in ToT)

SeaGtGruff · March 25

Personally, I love ToT. It is already a PvE- friendly game, so I'm not sure what you'd do to make it even more so. Although I do play against other players on rare occasions, I primarily play against the NPCs. Speaking for myself, playing against NPCs has done nothing to increase my interest in playing against other players, and I don't understand what could be done to encourage more players to try out ToT PvE matches, or why they might want to "graduate" to ToT PvP matches. While I had very little trouble learning the basics of the game and getting the hang of each patron and its deck, it seems like a lot of other players either can't quite wrap their heads around the game, or else they can but it's just not the kind of trading cards game that they like to play.

Deserrick · March 25

The more realistic way I could see them maybe implementing is to increase the rewards for playing against NPCs; the gold daily coffer requiring beating an expert instead of another player, and Marunji requiring beating three experts instead of three players. This still leaves furnishings as exclusive PVP rewards.

Necrotech_Master · March 25

there is a pve storyline, and plenty of pve npcs to play against already lol

the only problem really with the npcs is that the AI for them is dumb as a bag of hammers and can be very easily gamed to win 90%+ of the time even against the expert npcs

i personally dont really enjoy playing pvp tribute much unless its more of a friendly matchup against a friend, though i know at some point ill have to play enough to get to rubedite rank at least once to be able to finish the achievements lol

Personofsecrets · March 25

People can just play Slay if they don't like PvP.

benzenexz · March 25

ToT is literally the only pvp content that I play. The PvE part of it simply isn't interesting enough for me once you've well practiced all the decks.
However, one thing interesting for me that I can think of doing in a NPC match is that you might be able to create the perfect combo or situation that you desire by abusing the silly AI that NPCs have, such as having NPC full hand of bewildered rajin, pure crow infinite draw in hand, full sentry no play card, confiscate every card your opponent has so that it has empty hand, etc. All of these, in my point of view, is by itself interesting and satisfying (if accomplished) enough to engage myself into an NPC match without extra money reward. I wouldn't mind that if they add some achievement to these weird situation, but that might drive people to grind for it, ultimately making things a grindy boredom.

For NPC matches, agent type based on tavern location is a good idea, and probably one can also limit that to what the player may choose, (example: no Hermaeus Mora or in Summerset or Auridon as Daedric worshipping is prohibited there).

Creating a new currency for ToT and introducing its unique vendor is interesting to me, though I'm pretty sure there will be complaints of "yet another currency" or another "locked behind pvp" or "forced into play hated stuff" showing up immediately. There's all the art to balance that vendor stocks.

Gold Gambling simply will cause RL legal issue, so not a good idea.

Zodiarkslayer · March 25

Up until now I haven't played a single game of ToT. I've watched tutorials and listen to friend's explanations. But ...

I simply don't see the fun in it.

ob1ken0bi · March 26

Has it really been a flop? Every time I queue, it pops up with a match within seconds. I dont think I have waited more than 1 minute for any match.
Not saying anything in the game doesnt need some kind of improvement, but I am sure there are a lot more QoL that take priority over ToT.
Cyrodiil as a whole needs work for PvP.

agelonestar · March 26

Does anybody actually play this out-of-place abomination card game?

Personally I'd like to see it removed altogether, or at least have a commitment that absolutely nothing - e.g. antiquities - will be locked behind its nonsense interface.

ESO_player123 · March 26

agelonestar wrote: »

Does anybody actually play this out-of-place abomination card game?

Personally I'd like to see it removed altogether, or at least have a commitment that absolutely nothing - e.g. antiquities - will be locked behind its nonsense interface.

Obviously, some people play this game. Otherwise, a thread like this would not have been created.

randconfig · March 26

SolarRune wrote: »

I enjoy PVP TOT and that's the only version of the game I play, would be disappointed for it to be converted to PVE only.

Agreed. The Tales of Tribute is not a flop, but it definitely needs more love from the devs! Here's my top 3 requests:

1) Improvements and more transparent ranked score calculation,
2) Better ranked rewards
3) New content

I play at least an hour of ToT a day, and I think I spent 5 hours grinding score points one day.

ESO_player123 · March 26

randconfig wrote: »

SolarRune wrote: »

I enjoy PVP TOT and that's the only version of the game I play, would be disappointed for it to be converted to PVE only.

Agreed. The Tales of Tribute is not a flop, but it definitely needs more love from the devs! Here's my top 3 requests:

1) Improvements and more transparent ranked score calculation,
2) Better ranked rewards
3) New content

I play at least an hour of ToT a day, and I think I spent 5 hours grinding score points one day.

I still would like them to balance some obviously OP cards (like pounce/larceny or tomeshell). But my hopes are close to 0 at this point.

randconfig · March 26

ESO_player123 wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

SolarRune wrote: »

I enjoy PVP TOT and that's the only version of the game I play, would be disappointed for it to be converted to PVE only.

Agreed. The Tales of Tribute is not a flop, but it definitely needs more love from the devs! Here's my top 3 requests:

1) Improvements and more transparent ranked score calculation,
2) Better ranked rewards
3) New content

I play at least an hour of ToT a day, and I think I spent 5 hours grinding score points one day.

I still would like them to balance some obviously OP cards (like pounce/larceny or tomeshell). But my hopes are close to 0 at this point.

I agree, pounce should have a cost of 6 instead of 5, or only give 3 gold, as it's almost a guarantee you lose the game if your opponent picks it up round 1.

I disagree on tomeshell, as it is a double-edged sword with counter play: tomeshell gives your opponent a free draw card which early game can give your opponent 6 gold easy to snowball, and late game vs an opponent with bird cards could mean allowing them to draw their entire deck vs 1 or 2 additional cards.

Also if you use it to remove too many gold cards early game, you lose all your buying power and are stuck with low 1 power cards for multiple turns.

Tomeshell, all of Mora's cards, and the patron are very balanced imo.

ESO_player123 · March 26

randconfig wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

SolarRune wrote: »

I enjoy PVP TOT and that's the only version of the game I play, would be disappointed for it to be converted to PVE only.

Agreed. The Tales of Tribute is not a flop, but it definitely needs more love from the devs! Here's my top 3 requests:

1) Improvements and more transparent ranked score calculation,
2) Better ranked rewards
3) New content

I play at least an hour of ToT a day, and I think I spent 5 hours grinding score points one day.

I still would like them to balance some obviously OP cards (like pounce/larceny or tomeshell). But my hopes are close to 0 at this point.

I agree, pounce should have a cost of 6 instead of 5, or only give 3 gold, as it's almost a guarantee you lose the game if your opponent picks it up round 1.

I disagree on tomeshell, as it is a double-edged sword with counter play: tomeshell gives your opponent a free draw card which early game can give your opponent 6 gold easy to snowball, and late game vs an opponent with bird cards could mean allowing them to draw their entire deck vs 1 or 2 additional cards.

Also if you use it to remove too many gold cards early game, you lose all your buying power and are stuck with low 1 power cards for multiple turns.

Tomeshell, all of Mora's cards, and the patron are very balanced imo.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on the tomeshell/Mora deck part.

kevkj · March 26

agelonestar wrote: »

Personally I'd like to see it removed altogether, or at least have a commitment that absolutely nothing - e.g. antiquities - will be locked behind its nonsense interface.

On the contrary, there's not enough leads/collectibles locked behind winning ranked PvP Tales of Tribute games. Incredible missed opportunity that one piece of Oakensoul, Velothi-Ur and Monomyth each were not a card game only lead.

freespirit · March 27

kevkj wrote: »

agelonestar wrote: »

Personally I'd like to see it removed altogether, or at least have a commitment that absolutely nothing - e.g. antiquities - will be locked behind its nonsense interface.

On the contrary, there's not enough leads/collectibles locked behind winning ranked PvP Tales of Tribute games. Incredible missed opportunity that one piece of Oakensoul, Velothi-Ur and Monomyth each were not a card game only lead.

I love ToT but hate playing real people, if Mythic Leads were hidden behind PVP ToT I would be furious, I suspect I would not be the only one!

Delimber · 12:40PM

The pvp ToT does have a currency...XP

If you win, you gain XP, if you lose, you lose XP (after the initial pvp rank).

vuwuv · 2:07PM

benzenexz wrote: »

Creating a new currency for ToT and introducing its unique vendor is interesting to me, though I'm pretty sure there will be complaints of "yet another currency" or another "locked behind pvp" or "forced into play hated stuff" showing up immediately. There's all the art to balance that vendor stocks..

We've already brought up the idea of new currency in the ToT forum, but nobody cares as usual.

Though I still think it's a good idea if most of the vendor items are unbound and players receive small amounts of currency for PVE victories. ToT players finally will be able earn some decent gold and it will also draw some attention to the minigame itself.

DeathandDebauchery · 3:15PM

agelonestar wrote: »

Does anybody actually play this out-of-place abomination card game?

Personally I'd like to see it removed altogether, or at least have a commitment that absolutely nothing - e.g. antiquities - will be locked behind its nonsense interface.

There are 600+ ranked players each month, and given the time it takes to even get to the Rankings level suggests that on PC-NA there are easily 1000 active PvP players or more. That is sizeable when you consider that average daily population for all of Steam is 15kish.

Elements of the game have players proportionate to the amount of development attention given to an area. ToT has gotten NOTHING in almost 2 years, not even a balance tweak or a card upgrade. There is NOTHING on the roadmap for this /entire year/ which means the earliest we'd see something ToT related is January 2027 (unlikely).

The issue is you cant expect people to engage with somethhing that is in maintenance mode. It's like asking why don't more players do Harrowstorms? The fact that so many people are /still playing/ ToT is actually what is impressive.

They also just stealth-nerfed transmutes for ToT for some reason.

onyxorb · 4:08PM

I just want a 'quest friendly' mode for the game so that I can actually earn my beat an NPC dailies.
Just let me play with the 4 basic decks, get my dailies, and advance in the questline that I'm stuck on.

I have a bunch of complicated patrons that I can't understand the rules for because I simply do NOT have fun with this game.
Even the shortest game takes me 20 mins, regardless of if it's a win or loss, so it's just a ridiculous time sink when I have other things I want to do.

So I would totally be on board with some modification to the PVE side of things. Just add an option for quest oriented players.

ujimax · 4:37PM

I would like points required to win shift from 40/80 to 50/100.
Against people trying to rush or for close matches where getting to the 80 win condition favours a lot of draw rng luck at the end.
Overall deck balance is kinda alright rn?

wrgagurl · 5:00PM

Stop tying it altogether to achievements! I'm NOT going to learn it, I've tried for years now and still don't get it!!! Give us an alternative, I don't play card games ...EVER! PISSED ALTMER😠

DeathandDebauchery · 5:03PM

wrgagurl wrote: »

Stop tying it altogether to achievements! I'm NOT going to learn it, I've tried for years now and still don't get it!!! Give us an alternative, I don't play card games ...EVER! PISSED ALTMER😠

That's like saying dont tie Trifecta's to achievements because I can't do a Trifecta. Not all elements of the game are meant to cater to all people

El_Borracho · 5:14PM

@DeathandDebauchery Players don't do harrowstorms regularly because its very difficult to do solo and the rewards are not rewarding, much like ToT.

But when there is an event in The Reach or Western Skyrim, lots of players do harrowstorms. Weird, almost as if giving players an incentive to do an activity will result in more players doing that activity.

The PVP side of ToT is not attracting players. You answered your own question as to why ESO hasn't done anything to ToT for 2 years. Its not popular. That could be due to the steep learning curve paired with no incentive to learn, or it could be due to the wretched play style of annoying your opponent or unnecessarily dragging games out that is well documented on the ToT threads.

I proposed expanding ToT to make it more PVE friendly. The die hard PVP players objecting feel more like someone who really, really doesn't want their favorite indie band getting popular but can't understand why nobody listens to their favorite band.