Grouping tools very needs role achievement flag system.

AvalonRanger · March 22

Grouping tools very need role achievement flag system.

Put "tank role" in grouping tool, tank declaration at there.　
And dungeon started, then we met 100% fake tank.

In random grouping, we can't expect quality of role assurance.
OK, I can accept that. Because, it's a random. But doing fake in grouping tools?

NO! , totally nonsense. Even in U49, dev never fix this fundamental game design flaw.
Oh my god...

Just make mini quest for role achievement, and put the achievement flag system at grouping
tools. 100% solved though.

AvalonRanger · March 23

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Grouping tools very need role achievement flag system.

Put "tank role" in grouping tool, tank declaration at there.　
And dungeon started, then we met 100% fake tank.

In random grouping, we can't expect quality of role assurance.
OK, I can accept that. Because, it's a random. But doing fake in grouping tools?

NO! , totally nonsense. Even in U49, dev never fix this fundamental game design flaw.
Oh my god...

Just make mini quest for role achievement, and put the achievement flag system at grouping
tools. 100% solved though.

In grouping tools~

1, Newbie player who doesn't have decent role knowledge must study basic rules
for role group mission.

2, Experienced player who try to do fake declaration is simply bad guy.

Soarora · March 24

Hear me out, combine this with role-specific repeatable tutorials. Do the tutorial at some point on your account so you know what skills are associated with each role and now you can queue as that role. For example:

DPS: light attack weaving, pet control, tab targeting, standing in front of the healer, ressing

Healer: what different kinds of HoTs are, common buffs and debuffs healers should do

Tank: chaining, line of sighting/outranging, holding block (yes, I've met a tank who didn't know you should block), sources of taunt/forms of taunt

Also, who is teaching new players they can fake tank? The worst fake tanks I've seen have been low cp.

SolarRune · March 24

The problem is fake roles have become normalised because of inaction to this point, new players see that veteran players skip the queue by fake tanking (to be clear if you control the adds and take agro you are NOT fake tanking in my view) so it has become perceived as the way of 'playing the game how you want' and deemed as an acceptable way to play. It's because of other selfish players playing team content 'the way they want' and ignoring what the group needs is why I've pretty much stopped running dungeons.

GloatingSwine · March 24

People aren't fake tanking because they don't know how to tank, they're fake tanking because they want to skip the queues and know that most of the content doesn't need a tank anyway.

If you want to get away from fake tanks, you need content that enforces tanks, that means more bosses with powerful regular attacks that can't be kited or moved out of and enough hitpoints that they get to use them before they fall over dead (and more unavoidable long-term damage that needs a dedicated healer because it's too intense for DDs to sustain continuous self-healing).

AvalonRanger · March 29

GloatingSwine wrote: »

People aren't fake tanking because they don't know how to tank, they're fake tanking because they want to skip the queues and know that most of the content doesn't need a tank anyway.

If you want to get away from fake tanks, you need content that enforces tanks, that means more bosses with powerful regular attacks that can't be kited or moved out of and enough hitpoints that they get to use them before they fall over dead (and more unavoidable long-term damage that needs a dedicated healer because it's too intense for DDs to sustain continuous self-healing).

People aren't fake tanking because they don't know how to tank....

Well, I'm tank main player from CP300. But I saw same CP 300 player did fake tank declaration in grouping tools.

Role certification system still very need for both education and fair play.

Orbital78 · March 29

I think they need to increase the level requirements to a higher CP in these newer dungeons too. I haven't met a single tank that was CP300-600 that was able to tank them well.

Necrotech_Master · March 29

if the person is able to hold aggro and not die, then they arent really fake tanking, and for most normal dungeons, most of the content is easy enough it doesnt even need a true tank (ive even solo'd some of the most recent dungeons like black gem foundry on normal with a full dps and a tank or healer companion (which frequently ends up dying early in boss fights lol))

if you want to avoid fake roles, do vet queues, fake roles WILL be punished there

El_Borracho · April 7

I am 100% with @Necrotech_Master. Real tanks are in veteran dungeons because those dungeons require real tanks. At this point, with the amount of power creep that has overwhelmed this game, you do not need a real tank in any normal dungeon.

Let me be clear, I do not think this is good for the game. At all. But it is reality.

As for requiring a tutorial to qualify for a dungeon, do you actually think the tutorial for Cyrodiil teaches players how to PVP? HARD PASS.

Necrotech_Master · April 8

El_Borracho wrote: »

I am 100% with @Necrotech_Master. Real tanks are in veteran dungeons because those dungeons require real tanks. At this point, with the amount of power creep that has overwhelmed this game, you do not need a real tank in any normal dungeon.

Let me be clear, I do not think this is good for the game. At all. But it is reality.

As for requiring a tutorial to qualify for a dungeon, do you actually think the tutorial for Cyrodiil teaches players how to PVP? HARD PASS.

there are only a few places that you do need to be reasonably tanky, that are very difficult to survive as a full dps on normal

some cases i know of are:

ozezan in scriveners hall (the conal spray that ramps up in dmg, will usually kill full dps specs even on normal)
the conal spray from earthen root enclave final boss (devric)
and the conal spray from the voskrona boss in naj-caldeesh

those are examples i know of where it was very difficult on normal to stay alive during the mechanic from a combination of the ramping dmg, and needing to block through it (dodging consumes too much resources since you have to dodge at least 2-3 times in quick succession)

El_Borracho · April 8

@Necrotech_Master Yep, and even in 2 of those (Earthen Root & Scriveners), I've been in random normals that have beaten them with a fake tank by slapping heals on everyone. Haven't had the pleasure of a fake tank in Naj yet.

Not that normals were a good way to learn how to tank before, the only way now is by watching a video because the burn is so high. Even with stoppages like Earthen Root, the transformation phases only slow it from being crushed in seconds. You don't even have to worry about killing the lightning shard which will wipe you on vet.

Necrotech_Master · April 8

El_Borracho wrote: »

@Necrotech_Master Yep, and even in 2 of those (Earthen Root & Scriveners), I've been in random normals that have beaten them with a fake tank by slapping heals on everyone. Haven't had the pleasure of a fake tank in Naj yet.

Not that normals were a good way to learn how to tank before, the only way now is by watching a video because the burn is so high. Even with stoppages like Earthen Root, the transformation phases only slow it from being crushed in seconds. You don't even have to worry about killing the lightning shard which will wipe you on vet.

thats why when we get new dungeons, i typically solo them on a reasonably high dps tank character so i can see mechanics, between myself and a companion only avg around 15k dps so i can usually see most of the mechs on normal and get an idea of what to watch out for on vet

still end up having to actually run vet/vet HM to learn whats truly critical on those and actually dealing with the mechanics lol

AvalonRanger · April 19

"Grouping tools very need role achievement flag system."

"I want helm, Please help me ! "
I've seen much of post like this so far...

Just buy your helm at the golden cat shop in the Cylodiil.
Instead of posting like this.

I'm tank main player, but I usually ignore those type of grouping post recently.
Veteran dungeon is not casual contents. I want to know "their preparation for
veteran contents and their situation". Because some of DLC contents have
strict role checker for walking through. If the building is almost fake or unrealistic
situation. Then, it will become wasting time. Actually say, 80% of PUG healer
and DPS in random normal are almost fake.

Currently, there're no difference between grouping tools and random PUG dungeon.
Grouping tools very need role achievement flag system.

GloatingSwine · April 21

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Grouping tools very need role achievement flag system.

You still haven't explained what player behaviour difference this will make.

People will just do whatever tutorial is required to get the achievement to allow them to queue as tank/healer then still fake queue because tanks and healers queue faster than DPS.

Like this is the thing I've already told you, that the players who are fake queueing are doing so because of an emergent property of the role system which is nothing to do with what the roles do in the group and everything to do with an out-of-game condition, getting a faster queue time.

(Except actually they will do it even more because there will be even fewer actual tanks/healers if you put an extra obstacle in the way of playing the roles.)