The old maps slapped a 50% healing nerf on anyone near the spawn areas. They should do this again to prevent people from hanging out near spawn or spawn camping.

The real problem however is that the skill gap in this game is too large and the population is too small to support its poor quality matchmaking. When there were three teams, imbalances weren't as severe as the third team would step in to prevent spawn camping (or at least, apply pressure to the team that was spawn camping at that moment).

With only two teams, if the matchmaking doesn't do a good enough job (i.e., most matches), then one team gets obliterated over and over again.

Players on the losing team just hanging out in spawn also make this worse; the players that would otherwise be able to put up a fight if they had teammates soaking up damage are now left to fight outnumbered. The timer for booting people down from spawn should be way shorter than it is.

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

I think players jumping out of spawn should have 5 seconds of invincibility (or any reasonable number). Spawn camping is a big issue when players are behind and it just ruins the flow. Atleast give the losing team a fighting chance to leave their spawn.

Also sometime you take fall damage when jumping out of spawn, and now that they made spawns higher up in some places, it just leaves you very vulnerable as fall down when you leave spawn.

And if you think this sounds op, then maybe back up and dont camp the spawn.

I would be fine with this as long as you cannot go invisible for the duration of immunity and some time afterwards, couldnt attack nor heal anyone while invincible, and you couldn't go too far from your base without invincible wearing off. Similar to going through a door in IC.

Ah yeah, i forget about IC. So they have the tech, they would just need to balance and implement it.

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

The old maps slapped a 50% healing nerf on anyone near the spawn areas. They should do this again to prevent people from hanging out near spawn or spawn camping.

The real problem however is that the skill gap in this game is too large and the population is too small to support its poor quality matchmaking. When there were three teams, imbalances weren't as severe as the third team would step in to prevent spawn camping (or at least, apply pressure to the team that was spawn camping at that moment).

With only two teams, if the matchmaking doesn't do a good enough job (i.e., most matches), then one team gets obliterated over and over again.

Players on the losing team just hanging out in spawn also make this worse; the players that would otherwise be able to put up a fight if they had teammates soaking up damage are now left to fight outnumbered. The timer for booting people down from spawn should be way shorter than it is.

Hopefully crossplay will help with the matchmaking. Console player love PvP.

I disagree that 4v4v4 fixed this issue. I actually agree with ZoS's vision for 8v8, that if there are bad players on a team of 8, it is less detremental to the team. In 8v8, you can have 3 horrible players, but if 5 of them are locked in and good, can carry a game, giving the 3 newbies a chance to contribute. In 4v4v4, 1 person being poor was detremental to your whole team.

I think a lot of people look at 4v4v4 with rose tinted glasses. I've been PvPing since 2017 when BGs launched, and the queues with 8v8 are much much much faster. More people like it.

I think adding 4v4v4 to special weekends is a good compromise. Hopefully one day, the population will be big enough that you can just select which game mode to play. I wouldnt even mind if 4v4v4 was in the regular random queue.

💯

Not sure what platform you play, but on Xbox, two team Battlegrounds are insanely popular. Nowadays, when I have a bad teammate or shortly after stomping someone I’ll reach out and offer advice, and have met some really awesome people that way.

Helping people understand the game, helps alleviate the spawn-killing problem.

Something needs to change, I’m not quite sure it’s the format. Perhaps better tutorials for PvP? I know we have one for Siege, but is there a tutorial that explains the value of crit resistance?

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

The old maps slapped a 50% healing nerf on anyone near the spawn areas. They should do this again to prevent people from hanging out near spawn or spawn camping.

The real problem however is that the skill gap in this game is too large and the population is too small to support its poor quality matchmaking. When there were three teams, imbalances weren't as severe as the third team would step in to prevent spawn camping (or at least, apply pressure to the team that was spawn camping at that moment).

With only two teams, if the matchmaking doesn't do a good enough job (i.e., most matches), then one team gets obliterated over and over again.

Players on the losing team just hanging out in spawn also make this worse; the players that would otherwise be able to put up a fight if they had teammates soaking up damage are now left to fight outnumbered. The timer for booting people down from spawn should be way shorter than it is.

Hopefully crossplay will help with the matchmaking. Console player love PvP.

I disagree that 4v4v4 fixed this issue. I actually agree with ZoS's vision for 8v8, that if there are bad players on a team of 8, it is less detremental to the team. In 8v8, you can have 3 horrible players, but if 5 of them are locked in and good, can carry a game, giving the 3 newbies a chance to contribute. In 4v4v4, 1 person being poor was detremental to your whole team.

I think a lot of people look at 4v4v4 with rose tinted glasses. I've been PvPing since 2017 when BGs launched, and the queues with 8v8 are much much much faster. More people like it.

I think adding 4v4v4 to special weekends is a good compromise. Hopefully one day, the population will be big enough that you can just select which game mode to play. I wouldnt even mind if 4v4v4 was in the regular random queue.

I disagree wholeheartedly with being able to carry more in 8s.

I mean the math doesn't even make sense; 8 players focusing you down is absolutely going to be harder than third partying two other teams of 4.

4v4v4s allowed a player on a bad team to still carefully pick apart the other two teams after they engaged with each other. With only two teams, there's no opportunity to do that because all 8 enemies are focused on you and your team the entire match. Not to mention, 8 players on one team means more buffs, more hots, and more damage. 8 players worth of stats is going to be harder to fight solo than 2 teams of 4.

And I'm not remembering the 4v4v4s with rose tinted glasses. I've also been playing since Beta and I remember just fine. My queue times in 8v8s are just as long as the queue times in 4v4v4s. I'm still often waiting 15 minutes to get into a match.

What they should really do is to make people on spawns invincible, so they could not attack or be attacked, because I saw enough spawn fighters who don't want to go down and prefer to kill people from the top.

Second, they should add teleport from old PvP maps to teleport people from spawn down to battle, because it will eliminate problem when you got attacked in the air while jumping and fall damage problem. So, you could prebuff and then teleport. You will not be able to attack from safe position on top of spawn. This worked perfectly on old BGs (on some map, I don't remember name), new BGs are less thought through.

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

The old maps slapped a 50% healing nerf on anyone near the spawn areas. They should do this again to prevent people from hanging out near spawn or spawn camping.

The real problem however is that the skill gap in this game is too large and the population is too small to support its poor quality matchmaking. When there were three teams, imbalances weren't as severe as the third team would step in to prevent spawn camping (or at least, apply pressure to the team that was spawn camping at that moment).

With only two teams, if the matchmaking doesn't do a good enough job (i.e., most matches), then one team gets obliterated over and over again.

Players on the losing team just hanging out in spawn also make this worse; the players that would otherwise be able to put up a fight if they had teammates soaking up damage are now left to fight outnumbered. The timer for booting people down from spawn should be way shorter than it is.

Hopefully crossplay will help with the matchmaking. Console player love PvP.

I disagree that 4v4v4 fixed this issue. I actually agree with ZoS's vision for 8v8, that if there are bad players on a team of 8, it is less detremental to the team. In 8v8, you can have 3 horrible players, but if 5 of them are locked in and good, can carry a game, giving the 3 newbies a chance to contribute. In 4v4v4, 1 person being poor was detremental to your whole team.

I think a lot of people look at 4v4v4 with rose tinted glasses. I've been PvPing since 2017 when BGs launched, and the queues with 8v8 are much much much faster. More people like it.

I think adding 4v4v4 to special weekends is a good compromise. Hopefully one day, the population will be big enough that you can just select which game mode to play. I wouldnt even mind if 4v4v4 was in the regular random queue.

I disagree wholeheartedly with being able to carry more in 8s.

I mean the math doesn't even make sense; 8 players focusing you down is absolutely going to be harder than third partying two other teams of 4.

4v4v4s allowed a player on a bad team to still carefully pick apart the other two teams after they engaged with each other. With only two teams, there's no opportunity to do that because all 8 enemies are focused on you and your team the entire match. Not to mention, 8 players on one team means more buffs, more hots, and more damage. 8 players worth of stats is going to be harder to fight solo than 2 teams of 4.

And I'm not remembering the 4v4v4s with rose tinted glasses. I've also been playing since Beta and I remember just fine. My queue times in 8v8s are just as long as the queue times in 4v4v4s. I'm still often waiting 15 minutes to get into a match.

The math doesnt make sense? You can still get focused down by 8 players (2 teams of 4) in 4v4v4. Which again, makes it so that your party of 4 must be top notch to compete in 4v4v4. Atleast in 8v8 if your squad of 4 gets focus by 8, you have another 4 to support you.

The queue times are much faster with 8v8 and there are a lot more players participating in 8v8. It's irrefutable.

Could you get focused down by all 8 enemies in a 4v4v4? Sure, in theory yes, but the amount of times the enemies teams ignored each other the entire match was 0. There was, on average, less damage headed your team's way because the other two teams would fight each other.

Also, you can't call it an irrefutable fact that queues are shorter now because you simply don't have the behind the scenes data to prove it. As I said, my queue times now are just as long, oftentimes exceeding 15 minutes.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

The old maps slapped a 50% healing nerf on anyone near the spawn areas. They should do this again to prevent people from hanging out near spawn or spawn camping.

The real problem however is that the skill gap in this game is too large and the population is too small to support its poor quality matchmaking. When there were three teams, imbalances weren't as severe as the third team would step in to prevent spawn camping (or at least, apply pressure to the team that was spawn camping at that moment).

With only two teams, if the matchmaking doesn't do a good enough job (i.e., most matches), then one team gets obliterated over and over again.

Players on the losing team just hanging out in spawn also make this worse; the players that would otherwise be able to put up a fight if they had teammates soaking up damage are now left to fight outnumbered. The timer for booting people down from spawn should be way shorter than it is.

Hopefully crossplay will help with the matchmaking. Console player love PvP.

I disagree that 4v4v4 fixed this issue. I actually agree with ZoS's vision for 8v8, that if there are bad players on a team of 8, it is less detremental to the team. In 8v8, you can have 3 horrible players, but if 5 of them are locked in and good, can carry a game, giving the 3 newbies a chance to contribute. In 4v4v4, 1 person being poor was detremental to your whole team.

I think a lot of people look at 4v4v4 with rose tinted glasses. I've been PvPing since 2017 when BGs launched, and the queues with 8v8 are much much much faster. More people like it.

I think adding 4v4v4 to special weekends is a good compromise. Hopefully one day, the population will be big enough that you can just select which game mode to play. I wouldnt even mind if 4v4v4 was in the regular random queue.

I disagree wholeheartedly with being able to carry more in 8s.

I mean the math doesn't even make sense; 8 players focusing you down is absolutely going to be harder than third partying two other teams of 4.

4v4v4s allowed a player on a bad team to still carefully pick apart the other two teams after they engaged with each other. With only two teams, there's no opportunity to do that because all 8 enemies are focused on you and your team the entire match. Not to mention, 8 players on one team means more buffs, more hots, and more damage. 8 players worth of stats is going to be harder to fight solo than 2 teams of 4.

And I'm not remembering the 4v4v4s with rose tinted glasses. I've also been playing since Beta and I remember just fine. My queue times in 8v8s are just as long as the queue times in 4v4v4s. I'm still often waiting 15 minutes to get into a match.

The math doesnt make sense? You can still get focused down by 8 players (2 teams of 4) in 4v4v4. Which again, makes it so that your party of 4 must be top notch to compete in 4v4v4. Atleast in 8v8 if your squad of 4 gets focus by 8, you have another 4 to support you.

The queue times are much faster with 8v8 and there are a lot more players participating in 8v8. It's irrefutable.

Could you get focused down by all 8 enemies in a 4v4v4? Sure, in theory yes, but the amount of times the enemies teams ignored each other the entire match was 0. There was, on average, less damage headed your team's way because the other two teams would fight each other.

Also, you can't call it an irrefutable fact that queues are shorter now because you simply don't have the behind the scenes data to prove it. As I said, my queue times now are just as long, oftentimes exceeding 15 minutes.

Domination often revolved around each team just rotating between the points like clockwork and not actually fighting. Just running in circles capping. Lot more combat involved now.

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

The old maps slapped a 50% healing nerf on anyone near the spawn areas. They should do this again to prevent people from hanging out near spawn or spawn camping.

The real problem however is that the skill gap in this game is too large and the population is too small to support its poor quality matchmaking. When there were three teams, imbalances weren't as severe as the third team would step in to prevent spawn camping (or at least, apply pressure to the team that was spawn camping at that moment).

With only two teams, if the matchmaking doesn't do a good enough job (i.e., most matches), then one team gets obliterated over and over again.

Players on the losing team just hanging out in spawn also make this worse; the players that would otherwise be able to put up a fight if they had teammates soaking up damage are now left to fight outnumbered. The timer for booting people down from spawn should be way shorter than it is.

Hopefully crossplay will help with the matchmaking. Console player love PvP.

I disagree that 4v4v4 fixed this issue. I actually agree with ZoS's vision for 8v8, that if there are bad players on a team of 8, it is less detremental to the team. In 8v8, you can have 3 horrible players, but if 5 of them are locked in and good, can carry a game, giving the 3 newbies a chance to contribute. In 4v4v4, 1 person being poor was detremental to your whole team.

I think a lot of people look at 4v4v4 with rose tinted glasses. I've been PvPing since 2017 when BGs launched, and the queues with 8v8 are much much much faster. More people like it.

I think adding 4v4v4 to special weekends is a good compromise. Hopefully one day, the population will be big enough that you can just select which game mode to play. I wouldnt even mind if 4v4v4 was in the regular random queue.

I disagree wholeheartedly with being able to carry more in 8s.

I mean the math doesn't even make sense; 8 players focusing you down is absolutely going to be harder than third partying two other teams of 4.

4v4v4s allowed a player on a bad team to still carefully pick apart the other two teams after they engaged with each other. With only two teams, there's no opportunity to do that because all 8 enemies are focused on you and your team the entire match. Not to mention, 8 players on one team means more buffs, more hots, and more damage. 8 players worth of stats is going to be harder to fight solo than 2 teams of 4.

And I'm not remembering the 4v4v4s with rose tinted glasses. I've also been playing since Beta and I remember just fine. My queue times in 8v8s are just as long as the queue times in 4v4v4s. I'm still often waiting 15 minutes to get into a match.

The math doesnt make sense? You can still get focused down by 8 players (2 teams of 4) in 4v4v4. Which again, makes it so that your party of 4 must be top notch to compete in 4v4v4. Atleast in 8v8 if your squad of 4 gets focus by 8, you have another 4 to support you.

The queue times are much faster with 8v8 and there are a lot more players participating in 8v8. It's irrefutable.

Could you get focused down by all 8 enemies in a 4v4v4? Sure, in theory yes, but the amount of times the enemies teams ignored each other the entire match was 0. There was, on average, less damage headed your team's way because the other two teams would fight each other.

Also, you can't call it an irrefutable fact that queues are shorter now because you simply don't have the behind the scenes data to prove it. As I said, my queue times now are just as long, oftentimes exceeding 15 minutes.

Domination often revolved around each team just rotating between the points like clockwork and not actually fighting. Just running in circles capping. Lot more combat involved now.

I never said it didn't, and objective modes are absolutely something that 2 team BGs improved vs the 3 team BGs; however, that problem could have been solved by reducing the number of objectives in each mode. If there were, for example, only 2 flags in the 3 team modes, you would be forced to fight over a flag as there would be fewer objectives than teams.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SundarahFr3akinrican wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

The old maps slapped a 50% healing nerf on anyone near the spawn areas. They should do this again to prevent people from hanging out near spawn or spawn camping.

The real problem however is that the skill gap in this game is too large and the population is too small to support its poor quality matchmaking. When there were three teams, imbalances weren't as severe as the third team would step in to prevent spawn camping (or at least, apply pressure to the team that was spawn camping at that moment).

With only two teams, if the matchmaking doesn't do a good enough job (i.e., most matches), then one team gets obliterated over and over again.

Players on the losing team just hanging out in spawn also make this worse; the players that would otherwise be able to put up a fight if they had teammates soaking up damage are now left to fight outnumbered. The timer for booting people down from spawn should be way shorter than it is.

Hopefully crossplay will help with the matchmaking. Console player love PvP.

I disagree that 4v4v4 fixed this issue. I actually agree with ZoS's vision for 8v8, that if there are bad players on a team of 8, it is less detremental to the team. In 8v8, you can have 3 horrible players, but if 5 of them are locked in and good, can carry a game, giving the 3 newbies a chance to contribute. In 4v4v4, 1 person being poor was detremental to your whole team.

I think a lot of people look at 4v4v4 with rose tinted glasses. I've been PvPing since 2017 when BGs launched, and the queues with 8v8 are much much much faster. More people like it.

I think adding 4v4v4 to special weekends is a good compromise. Hopefully one day, the population will be big enough that you can just select which game mode to play. I wouldnt even mind if 4v4v4 was in the regular random queue.

I disagree wholeheartedly with being able to carry more in 8s.

I mean the math doesn't even make sense; 8 players focusing you down is absolutely going to be harder than third partying two other teams of 4.

4v4v4s allowed a player on a bad team to still carefully pick apart the other two teams after they engaged with each other. With only two teams, there's no opportunity to do that because all 8 enemies are focused on you and your team the entire match. Not to mention, 8 players on one team means more buffs, more hots, and more damage. 8 players worth of stats is going to be harder to fight solo than 2 teams of 4.

And I'm not remembering the 4v4v4s with rose tinted glasses. I've also been playing since Beta and I remember just fine. My queue times in 8v8s are just as long as the queue times in 4v4v4s. I'm still often waiting 15 minutes to get into a match.

The math doesnt make sense? You can still get focused down by 8 players (2 teams of 4) in 4v4v4. Which again, makes it so that your party of 4 must be top notch to compete in 4v4v4. Atleast in 8v8 if your squad of 4 gets focus by 8, you have another 4 to support you.

The queue times are much faster with 8v8 and there are a lot more players participating in 8v8. It's irrefutable.

Could you get focused down by all 8 enemies in a 4v4v4? Sure, in theory yes, but the amount of times the enemies teams ignored each other the entire match was 0. There was, on average, less damage headed your team's way because the other two teams would fight each other.

Also, you can't call it an irrefutable fact that queues are shorter now because you simply don't have the behind the scenes data to prove it. As I said, my queue times now are just as long, oftentimes exceeding 15 minutes.

Maybe there's some difference between PC EU/NA in play here, but we'd frequently get matches on EU where in a deathmatch two teams with healers were just trying to snipe killing blows on the healerless third team and would largely ignore each other. In fact, I'd say this was more common than the opposite.

It was also a lot easier to cross-team disliked individuals in 3-team BGs, much like people do in Cyrodiil/IC.


The queue times are a problem of the "MMR system". I.e. if you play one character too much your queues on that character will be getting longer and longer, even though you'll still be put against the same opponents. Disfunctional system to say the least.

For example: I could hop on my mDK that I've tested 5-6 builds on and have 15 minute queues... or log on a stamblade with 3-4 BGs done this patch and get an instant pop against the same opponents I'd have on that mDK.