Currency Overload in ESO – Maybe It's Time to Streamline the System?

Spin · March 23

There are just too many currencies at this point.

Gold, AP, Tel Var, Writ Vouchers, Crowns, Crown Gems, Seals of Endeavor, Archival Fortunes, Imperial Fragments, Tome-something… Jesus, it keeps stacking up. For new or returning players, it’s honestly confusing, and even for regular players it feels unnecessarily fragmented.

Like, can't we mix some and get rid of the other? For example Crown Gems and Seals of Endeavor. They basically serve a similar purpose (getting Crown Crate-related items), but are completely separate systems. Why not merge them, or at least make them interact?

I get that each currency had a reason when it was added, but over time it’s become clutter. It doesn’t really add depth anymore, it feels like ESO is borrowing problems from free live-service games.

Streamlining some of these (especially overlapping ones) would make the game a lot cleaner without hurting progression. It may even help with data storage or things related to player/account info.

Feels like a small but big QoL change that would go a long way

Spin · March 23

Ngl I miss when we just had Gold, AP, Tel Var and Crowns. I get that some of them are specific to an activity, but maybe tone down a bit? Specially the ones related to the in-game cosmetic/DLC store.

Malyore · March 23

Currency, sets, materials. There's a lot bogging them down.

PeacefulAnarchy · March 23

Spin wrote: »

Like, can't we mix some and get rid of the other? For example Crown Gems and Seals of Endeavor. They basically serve a similar purpose (getting Crown Crate-related items), but are completely separate systems. Why not merge them, or at least make them interact?

Not that I disagree, but there's an obvious reason for this. They wanted seals to serve a specific purpose, make crown items kinda accessible, but not too much to eat into crown crate revenue. If they had made them like crown gems, then either the apex and radiant items would be even more out of reach than they are now, or it would have allowed people who wanted lower priced items to buy half a crate worth of items per season. A reasonable number of people buy crates for a smattering of low-mid value items.
Instead they chose the current version, where low value items are way overpriced compared to apex radiants. This encourages saving behaviour, and allows the rare expensive purchase which statistically most people weren't going to get from crates anyway, and if someone decides to spend on the low value things then all the better because they're getting very few of them.

In any case, they have different relative values for low vs high priced items so there's no reasonable way to merge them even if they changed their mind now without either making a bunch of people angry by choosing a low value exchange rate, or giving savers a significant boon in value in choosing a high value exchange rate.

Common(trash): 3gems=360 seals 120 seals per gem
Superior: 16gems=1000 seals 62.5 seals per gem
Epic 40 gems=2000 seals 50 seals per gem
Legendary 10 gems=3600 seals 36 seals per gem
Apex 400 gems=8000 seals 20 seals per gem
Radiant 1200/1600/2500 gems=16000 seals 13/10/6.4 seals per gem

To put it another way:
If you have 2500 gems, you can buy 1 Radiant, or 6 Apex and 1 Legendary,
or 20 Superior, 17 Epic and 15 Legendary. That last one is all the Superior, Epic and Legendary rewards in the current crates except for 2 Superior 1 Legendary.
With 16000 Seals you can buy 1 Radiant, or 2 Apex, or 4.4 Legendary, or 8 Epic or 16 Superior rewards.
That's a huge difference in scaling to bridge.

tsaescishoeshiner · March 24

Gems and Endeavors might be separated for financial/legal reasons. They also have very different exchange rates for Radiant vs more common rewards.

Trade Bars are replacing event tickets from what I understand. Then we're getting Tome points, which will have their own menu, and presumably the Premium Tome tokens from ESO+ (which will be used and spent very rarely). So that's two new currencies for a major overhaul of their content strategy.

Most currencies couldn't be eliminated (AP, Tel Var, Transmute Stones) without drastically changing the role their content plays. Some, like Imperial Fragments (a player request since they used to be inventory items) and Undaunted Keys, could be removed with a new way to get their current rewards. Several rewards could be tucked into Transmute Stones, IMO.

ESO does not have a lot of currencies compared to other MMOs, which introduce new ones (or several) for each new zone. It's like if Style Materials (we get many new ones each year) were harder to get and required to craft new meta gear and abilities. Terrible.

Another simplifying factor is that ESO currencies can't be exchanged for one another, and there aren't complex crafting recipes involving a spreadsheet currencies and different content, ultimately meaning that you don't need to track multiple currencies. You don't need to know what AP is for to do PvE, and if you do need a PvP set, it's simple to understand: AP comes from PvP.

virtus753 · March 24

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Trade Bars are replacing event tickets from what I understand. Then we're getting Tome points, which will have their own menu, and presumably the Premium Tome tokens from ESO+ (which will be used and spent very rarely). So that's two new currencies for a major overhaul of their content strategy.

But they stretched the one Tome point currency into two by listing “Caches” of Tome points as a separate currency from TP when they are not. They (thankfully) do not list similar containers on the currency list, like the number of transmutation geodes or crates we have, but they put the equivalent for TP there, even though caches are already listed in the Tome UI where you have to go to open them (similar to crown crates). If they had left it like crown crates, where you see what you have when you’re on the appropriate screen, they could have saved some unnecessary clutter in the currency menu.

twisttop138 · March 24

My wife is a casual player who's played ESO with me for almost a decade. I'm more into it, with raiding and dungeons and being a guild officer and paying attention to the pts and the forums. She just wants to log in and pick flowers, do a couple quests and putter around a building project but she's been around. I was trying to explain to her trade bars and tome points and seals and all the changes happening this year and her response was, it's way too much. Too many currencies. Too many materials, crafting and style. Too much. But this is what happens to a live service game over a long period of time. It becomes something vets get but it's crazy to explain to new players. I can't imagine being a new player who just logs in today. And they'll learn a game that's going to be completely different in 2 weeks.

I also think the changes were communicated badly. I think on April 2nd, a not insignificant portion of players are going to log in and have zero idea what's going on because they do not have a way of communicating changes in game. People on here or reddit, I keep being told, are a very small minority of the player base, how do we reach them? There is a population in gaming who believes that you should not have to look outside the game for any information about the game. I don't agree but I see their point.

I would say, if you're in a guild discord, try to take a minute to send an at everyone message to help players learn about the new currency and other changes coming on the 2nd. Hopefully Zos finds a way to better communicate in game in the future.

Techwolf_Lupindo · March 24

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Some, like Imperial Fragments (a player request since they used to be inventory items)

Not a single player requested this. ZOS took away one of the best ways to make gold. Selling Imperial Fragments. So those that did not want to do IC can still get IC stuff. Now they are forced into IC with no way out.

Vonnegut2506 · March 24

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Gems and Endeavors might be separated for financial/legal reasons. They also have very different exchange rates for Radiant vs more common rewards.

Trade Bars are replacing event tickets from what I understand. Then we're getting Tome points, which will have their own menu, and presumably the Premium Tome tokens from ESO+ (which will be used and spent very rarely). So that's two new currencies for a major overhaul of their content strategy.

Most currencies couldn't be eliminated (AP, Tel Var, Transmute Stones) without drastically changing the role their content plays. Some, like Imperial Fragments (a player request since they used to be inventory items) and Undaunted Keys, could be removed with a new way to get their current rewards. Several rewards could be tucked into Transmute Stones, IMO.

ESO does not have a lot of currencies compared to other MMOs, which introduce new ones (or several) for each new zone. It's like if Style Materials (we get many new ones each year) were harder to get and required to craft new meta gear and abilities. Terrible.

Another simplifying factor is that ESO currencies can't be exchanged for one another, and there aren't complex crafting recipes involving a spreadsheet currencies and different content, ultimately meaning that you don't need to track multiple currencies. You don't need to know what AP is for to do PvE, and if you do need a PvP set, it's simple to understand: AP comes from PvP.

Transmute stones could be removed. Just change the stone requirement to a gold requirement that scales the same way transmute stones do and get rid of them. Or switch over to Undaunted keys in order to transmute in order to keep the dungeon queue hopping. They could combine Tel Var stones and AP into one PvP currency if they weren't so dead-set on trying to make people play Imperial City.

tsaescishoeshiner · March 25

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Gems and Endeavors might be separated for financial/legal reasons. They also have very different exchange rates for Radiant vs more common rewards.

Trade Bars are replacing event tickets from what I understand. Then we're getting Tome points, which will have their own menu, and presumably the Premium Tome tokens from ESO+ (which will be used and spent very rarely). So that's two new currencies for a major overhaul of their content strategy.

Most currencies couldn't be eliminated (AP, Tel Var, Transmute Stones) without drastically changing the role their content plays. Some, like Imperial Fragments (a player request since they used to be inventory items) and Undaunted Keys, could be removed with a new way to get their current rewards. Several rewards could be tucked into Transmute Stones, IMO.

ESO does not have a lot of currencies compared to other MMOs, which introduce new ones (or several) for each new zone. It's like if Style Materials (we get many new ones each year) were harder to get and required to craft new meta gear and abilities. Terrible.

Another simplifying factor is that ESO currencies can't be exchanged for one another, and there aren't complex crafting recipes involving a spreadsheet currencies and different content, ultimately meaning that you don't need to track multiple currencies. You don't need to know what AP is for to do PvE, and if you do need a PvP set, it's simple to understand: AP comes from PvP.

Transmute stones could be removed. Just change the stone requirement to a gold requirement that scales the same way transmute stones do and get rid of them. Or switch over to Undaunted keys in order to transmute in order to keep the dungeon queue hopping. They could combine Tel Var stones and AP into one PvP currency if they weren't so dead-set on trying to make people play Imperial City.

The point of Tel Var is to have a currency that you lose on death, while AP persists. It also encourages IC, whereas AP has other sources.

The transmute stones are effective at motivating players into Random Daily queues, which consequently make it easier to queue for one specific dungeon, because there's a pool of players in the random queue to join you (eventually ...). Any rework would probably need to preserve this incentive for queues to be populated.

spartaxoxo · March 25

Edit: nvm

FieryPhoenix · March 25

i agree there are too many currencies and they should be condensed somehow. I’d personally like something else to spend transmutes on, I have so many stored on alts it’s not funny. Yes I know transmuting to nirnhoned is an option but it’s just so clunky and is just another form of inventory management which is time consuming and irritating.

Destai · March 25

I don't disagree but the currencies are too deeply integrated into existing systems and their surrounding incentives. I don't see a way to remove or condense without affecting the incentives.

Transmutes encourage doing random dungeons, which in turn support those doing specific dungeons. The dungeon finder would unravel without that incentive. Even if they gave more gold or more cosmetics, those are narrow rewards compared to transmutes.

Same thing with Tel Var stones. They're risk & reward structure that makes people engage IC. I could see this being condensed with AP into one generic PVP token, but I do think there'd be some massive downsides and controversy.

Now some of them are tied to monetization. While I have a pretty negative opinion of the crown crates in general, the gems serve a positive function. Gems are a by product that offsets the negatives of opening repeated crates.

I think the bigger issue is just training people in game mechanics. There's no way to navigate this game without the internet or experience. If there are in-game learning resources, they're not obvious.

AzuraFan · March 25

FieryPhoenix wrote: »

i agree there are too many currencies and they should be condensed somehow. I’d personally like something else to spend transmutes on...

Same, and the limit for me will soon be 3000 (if it isn't already - not sure when that change goes into effect). The only time I use transmutes is when I have to get rid of some because I'm at the cap, so I use the old nirnhoned transmutation. I'd rather have other stuff to spend them on.

I'd like to see the number of currencies reduced. But if all the currencies are staying around, I'd like to see:

1. An antiquities leads vendor that accepts all currencies - currently we have two, and they only accept currencies from two specific activities that a lot of players don't participate in.
2. A currency exchange NPC, so I can exchange currencies I rarely use for currencies I do use.

richo262 · March 25

Malyore wrote: »

Currency, sets, materials. There's a lot bogging them down.

I've written extensively on the mats bogging the game down. So many players I've tried to introduce to this game have been overloaded. Inventory management suffers with each patch and the argument of ESO+ is only valid for players that commit, its invalid for those that give up on the game due to inventory issues before they consider committing to a sub.

If I could wave a magic wand:

Remove the 10 different types of water for just 1. Alchemy would need to be changed to 'chance of successful craft' from the tiered system. Points in Alchemy increases the chance of success, max = 100%. Remove the level requirement from potions/poisons. Similar to crown tri-pots.
Remove the bile entirely from alchemy. Have water = potion, no water = poison. Spider eggs have enough goo in them to make a poison. This would also be a gold sink.
Remove the 10 different types of base enchants and replace with just Jone / Jode for positive or negative effect. Again they will need to reconsider the Enchant tier system. See Alchemy.
Remove white and green tier Enchants, they serve no real function. Have Blue as daily writs (but drop more to reflect this).
Reduce the basic food ingredients, example being instead of Chicken, Pork, etc just have 'Light Meat' eg 'Red Meat' exists, not Beef. This may result in killing pigs and making a chicken sandwich though.
There are entire matt tiers between CP1 and CP159 that quickly become entirely redundant.
Junk items for the sake of junk need not exist anymore (except actual treasure) - Why have 'damaged pelt' and 'clean pelt', just have 'Pelt' that has the same vendor price as damaged, and can be used as a furniture craft. Re-evaluate the usefulness of all strictly junk items.
To make purple enchants more useful, use them for scribing instead of the inks (this will require replacing all inks for Rekuta at a rate that reflects the prices of the items).
Remove the trait items that are so abundant they are simply clutter. This is for most weapons and armor (except nirn) and possibly the health, stam and mag for jewelry. Recycle the assets as treasure.
Option to 'auto-junk' items that are simply used for the purpose of vendoring. If after the clean up of items there are no junk items, but rather 'treasure' items, rename the junk tab to 'treasure tab'. Clearly denote these items as vendor purposes only.
Bait - remove the special baits, I barely notice an improvement, especially with the CP and companion perks catering for this. This often confuses new players, perhaps slightly buff standard bait and then have it so special fish don't drop twice. Most fishermen want the fish for roe so getting a special fish twice is unnecessary.
Have bait part of the Craft bag for all, it will serve as a small sample for new players, and it doesn't clutter the inventory. Can't even vendor it for a price.
Make style materials multi-purpose - I see no reason why 1 style material can't be used for multiple sets. New style mats with every new (non craftable) set is not entirely scaleable.
Remove the need for style materials for basic sets. If basic style mats are a good gold sink for daily writ crafters, slightly reduce the gold yield from dailies to factor this in. Even more relevant now 'ancient' motifs are a thing revamping the basic ones.
Re-evaluate all items that require 10 minor items to craft 1 major item. ie wrothgar style mats, dwarven style mats etc.

If all of that was done, the spam bombardment for new players would drop drastically.

Enemoriana · March 25

richo262 wrote: »

Remove the 10 different types of water for just 1. Alchemy would need to be changed to 'chance of successful craft' from the tiered system. Points in Alchemy increases the chance of success, max = 100%. .

Bad idea. Hurts new players heavily, as they do not yet have a lot of materials. And they will need a lot to level up alchemy!
Same with enchanting.

richo262 wrote: »

To make purple enchants more useful, use them for scribing instead of the inks (this will require replacing all inks for Rekuta at a rate that reflects the prices of the items).

But they have different lore...

richo262 wrote: »

[*] Make style materials multi-purpose - I see no reason why 1 style material can't be used for multiple sets. New style mats with every new (non craftable) set is not entirely scaleable.
[*] Remove the need for style materials for basic sets. If basic style mats are a good gold sink for daily writ crafters, slightly reduce the gold yield from dailies to factor this in. Even more relevant now 'ancient' motifs are a thing revamping the basic ones.

Many are multi-purpose already, including basic. Used for crafting furniture. Nothing is ripping me out of nickel as colovian furniture...

richo262 · 10:12AM

Enemoriana wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

Remove the 10 different types of water for just 1. Alchemy would need to be changed to 'chance of successful craft' from the tiered system. Points in Alchemy increases the chance of success, max = 100%. .

Bad idea. Hurts new players heavily, as they do not yet have a lot of materials. And they will need a lot to level up alchemy!
Same with enchanting.

richo262 wrote: »

To make purple enchants more useful, use them for scribing instead of the inks (this will require replacing all inks for Rekuta at a rate that reflects the prices of the items).

But they have different lore...

richo262 wrote: »

[*] Make style materials multi-purpose - I see no reason why 1 style material can't be used for multiple sets. New style mats with every new (non craftable) set is not entirely scaleable.
[*] Remove the need for style materials for basic sets. If basic style mats are a good gold sink for daily writ crafters, slightly reduce the gold yield from dailies to factor this in. Even more relevant now 'ancient' motifs are a thing revamping the basic ones.

Many are multi-purpose already, including basic. Used for crafting furniture. Nothing is ripping me out of nickel as colovian furniture...

How does having one water hurt new players? They go to water source ... they pick up water. Everybody, no matter the level picks up the same water. Potions and poisons and enchants are no longer level bound (meaning we no longer require a different water for class bracket). As I said, they operate like Crown tri-pots, no level requirement. The level system is no longer a tier system but a percentage of success. 1 point (default) is 10% chance, 10 points = 100% chance. A failed attempt yields extra inspiration. Logic is learn from mistakes.

Edit: 10% is too low a start, I just used that as an example. ie 1 point = 50%, 2 points 55% etc etc. up to 10 points = 100%

If anything a system like that helps new players. Sure 50% of their potions / poisons will fail (initially), but they will never end up with a batch of redundant potions / poisons (and enchants) that will become junk in 10 levels time because they constantly scale down as the player improves.

Enemoriana · 12:40PM

richo262 wrote: »

How does having one water hurt new players? They go to water source ... they pick up water. Everybody, no matter the level picks up the same water. Potions and poisons and enchants are no longer level bound (meaning we no longer require a different water for class bracket). As I said, they operate like Crown tri-pots, no level requirement. The level system is no longer a tier system but a percentage of success. 1 point (default) is 10% chance, 10 points = 100% chance. A failed attempt yields extra inspiration. Logic is learn from mistakes.

Edit: 10% is too low a start, I just used that as an example. ie 1 point = 50%, 2 points 55% etc etc. up to 10 points = 100%

If anything a system like that helps new players. Sure 50% of their potions / poisons will fail (initially), but they will never end up with a batch of redundant potions / poisons (and enchants) that will become junk in 10 levels time because they constantly scale down as the player improves.

Not water. Changing to chance.
Failed attempt means two or three ingredients lost. There is no real need to craft potions for low level to actually play - level up rewards gives 75 potions. And even if somebody will craft potions - there is no need to craft them in stacks. So lowlevel alchemy is mostly aboul leveling alchemy.
Secondly, all ingredient effects should be unlocked, so in any case there will be useless potions/poisons.
Now you can just level up skill with poisons and sell them to vendors and get back some gold. With chance system ingredients would be simply lost.
So new players loose more and get, actually, nothing. I can't even say "get few free slots in inventory", because lower level mats can be sold as soon as they become useless.

With enchanting there is even less reasons to craft more than you need at the moment, except leveling up skill. And leveled square runes can be bought from vendors, so there is even no reason to keep them all.

richo262 · 3:18PM

Enemoriana wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

How does having one water hurt new players? They go to water source ... they pick up water. Everybody, no matter the level picks up the same water. Potions and poisons and enchants are no longer level bound (meaning we no longer require a different water for class bracket). As I said, they operate like Crown tri-pots, no level requirement. The level system is no longer a tier system but a percentage of success. 1 point (default) is 10% chance, 10 points = 100% chance. A failed attempt yields extra inspiration. Logic is learn from mistakes.

Edit: 10% is too low a start, I just used that as an example. ie 1 point = 50%, 2 points 55% etc etc. up to 10 points = 100%

If anything a system like that helps new players. Sure 50% of their potions / poisons will fail (initially), but they will never end up with a batch of redundant potions / poisons (and enchants) that will become junk in 10 levels time because they constantly scale down as the player improves.

Not water. Changing to chance.
Failed attempt means two or three ingredients lost. There is no real need to craft potions for low level to actually play - level up rewards gives 75 potions. And even if somebody will craft potions - there is no need to craft them in stacks. So lowlevel alchemy is mostly aboul leveling alchemy.
Secondly, all ingredient effects should be unlocked, so in any case there will be useless potions/poisons.
Now you can just level up skill with poisons and sell them to vendors and get back some gold. With chance system ingredients would be simply lost.
So new players loose more and get, actually, nothing. I can't even say "get few free slots in inventory", because lower level mats can be sold as soon as they become useless.

With enchanting there is even less reasons to craft more than you need at the moment, except leveling up skill. And leveled square runes can be bought from vendors, so there is even no reason to keep them all.

Your position is alchemy crafting chance to fail is bad for new players ... but also new players are also unaffected because they rely on 75 potions anyway? I'm not sure I follow.

I agree that players spam the alchemy tree to level it. I disagree there is any real gold benefit. In the scenario above, the failed crafts afford double inspiration so there is actually an XP benefit to failing to assist with leveling. It is a non-issue to have fewer potions that were undoubtedly only made to power level the alchemy tree because they are essentially a waste product, that wouldn't sell on a guild trader and only vendors for a trivial amount.

What is more beneficial to a new player? XP bonus for failing and having less left over trash to vendor, or the loose change they will get from disposing of a larger quantity of the biproduct?

The RP players would probably have issue with an account wide ingredient knowledge, or known from the start. I have no issue with lore books being a method of discovering alchemy effects though. That might be cool.

In a nutshell the trade off in regards to power leveling with the chance system is this. No junk items that were probably only made to power level alchemy, in favor of an XP bonus for failing, and the potions that didn't fail actually being useful as they are not bound to a level system, like how crown tri pots can be used at any level and don't decrease in effectiveness as you level.