Artanisul wrote: »

Athory wrote: »

Maybe the real issue is that guilds need to explain their rules in a way that everyone understands clearly.

When I joined my first guild, the guild bank rule was something like: “Take what you need, and give what you can.” Maybe not those exact words, but that was the idea.
So I did exactly that. I took crafting materials because I needed to level my crafting skills. I also took a lot of motifs and recipes I didn’t have yet, and I used them all.

A day or two later, the guild leader got really angry, and we ended up arguing. Apparently, "take what you need" actually meant something like "take what you need, but not more than 5 items." But how was I supposed to know that? That limitation was never clearly explained.
Then people started talking about the value of the recipes I used. But at the time, I didn’t care about prices, I wasn’t trying to sell anything. I used everything I took, exactly as the rules seemed to allow. If some of those items were valuable, then why put them in a shared guild bank where anyone can take them?

After that, I left the guild. I joined another one, and the same thing happened.
My view of a guild bank is simple: if I put something in there for others, I don’t care if someone takes one item or everything. Otherwise, I wouldn’t put it there, I’d keep it in my personal bank where no one else has access.

So I really don’t understand why the OP is so upset about someone clearing out the bank. If you make items freely available, you have to accept that someone might take them all. It’s like standing in the street shouting:
"Free eggs!" and then getting angry when you end up with none left.

You took what you wanted. You didnt only take what you needed. That was thievery.

AScarlato wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Artanisul wrote: »

Athory wrote: »

Maybe the real issue is that guilds need to explain their rules in a way that everyone understands clearly.

When I joined my first guild, the guild bank rule was something like: “Take what you need, and give what you can.” Maybe not those exact words, but that was the idea.
So I did exactly that. I took crafting materials because I needed to level my crafting skills. I also took a lot of motifs and recipes I didn’t have yet, and I used them all.

A day or two later, the guild leader got really angry, and we ended up arguing. Apparently, "take what you need" actually meant something like "take what you need, but not more than 5 items." But how was I supposed to know that? That limitation was never clearly explained.
Then people started talking about the value of the recipes I used. But at the time, I didn’t care about prices, I wasn’t trying to sell anything. I used everything I took, exactly as the rules seemed to allow. If some of those items were valuable, then why put them in a shared guild bank where anyone can take them?

After that, I left the guild. I joined another one, and the same thing happened.
My view of a guild bank is simple: if I put something in there for others, I don’t care if someone takes one item or everything. Otherwise, I wouldn’t put it there, I’d keep it in my personal bank where no one else has access.

So I really don’t understand why the OP is so upset about someone clearing out the bank. If you make items freely available, you have to accept that someone might take them all. It’s like standing in the street shouting:
"Free eggs!" and then getting angry when you end up with none left.

You took what you wanted. You didnt only take what you needed. That was thievery.

Thank you, your honour. If that is your judgement, so be it.

How do you make a distinction like that in a video game we play because we want to play it, for fun? In the end everything in this game is about wanting something. But what constitutes as needing something? Direct master writ you need to do and don't have a motif? Is that enough for needing the motif? Or is it enough to read the motif because that is missing from your outfit you are planning? How about if you are missing that one motif and then it's completed and you get the achievement? How about if you are a completionist who just wants, nay, needs to have all the motifs?

What is your judgement, where the exact line is where need becomes thievery?

Unfortunately I think the answer is guild-specific. Even so it seems your experience might be a bit off from what I'm used to.

A lot of times guilds amass tons of low-level donations from members so they would love for a new player to come in and actually use it. I think we have like 30 of the same recipe for some stuff.

Personally I try to find balance between giving and taking, and take what I will REALLY use. For example, I don't take motifs we don't have a lot of dupes for if I'm not actually going to use it. Or if I won't ever craft the furniture, etc. If a guild only has one copy of a motif or style, and you already took 50 different things, I'd think about whether you REALLY will use it rather than just collecting everything just to collect.

frogthroat wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Artanisul wrote: »

Athory wrote: »

Maybe the real issue is that guilds need to explain their rules in a way that everyone understands clearly.

When I joined my first guild, the guild bank rule was something like: “Take what you need, and give what you can.” Maybe not those exact words, but that was the idea.
So I did exactly that. I took crafting materials because I needed to level my crafting skills. I also took a lot of motifs and recipes I didn’t have yet, and I used them all.

A day or two later, the guild leader got really angry, and we ended up arguing. Apparently, "take what you need" actually meant something like "take what you need, but not more than 5 items." But how was I supposed to know that? That limitation was never clearly explained.
Then people started talking about the value of the recipes I used. But at the time, I didn’t care about prices, I wasn’t trying to sell anything. I used everything I took, exactly as the rules seemed to allow. If some of those items were valuable, then why put them in a shared guild bank where anyone can take them?

After that, I left the guild. I joined another one, and the same thing happened.
My view of a guild bank is simple: if I put something in there for others, I don’t care if someone takes one item or everything. Otherwise, I wouldn’t put it there, I’d keep it in my personal bank where no one else has access.

So I really don’t understand why the OP is so upset about someone clearing out the bank. If you make items freely available, you have to accept that someone might take them all. It’s like standing in the street shouting:
"Free eggs!" and then getting angry when you end up with none left.

You took what you wanted. You didnt only take what you needed. That was thievery.

Thank you, your honour. If that is your judgement, so be it.

How do you make a distinction like that in a video game we play because we want to play it, for fun? In the end everything in this game is about wanting something. But what constitutes as needing something? Direct master writ you need to do and don't have a motif? Is that enough for needing the motif? Or is it enough to read the motif because that is missing from your outfit you are planning? How about if you are missing that one motif and then it's completed and you get the achievement? How about if you are a completionist who just wants, nay, needs to have all the motifs?

What is your judgement, where the exact line is where need becomes thievery?

Unfortunately I think the answer is guild-specific. Even so it seems your experience might be a bit off from what I'm used to.

A lot of times guilds amass tons of low-level donations from members so they would love for a new player to come in and actually use it. I think we have like 30 of the same recipe for some stuff.

Personally I try to find balance between giving and taking, and take what I will REALLY use. For example, I don't take motifs we don't have a lot of dupes for if I'm not actually going to use it. Or if I won't ever craft the furniture, etc. If a guild only has one copy of a motif or style, and you already took 50 different things, I'd think about whether you REALLY will use it rather than just collecting everything just to collect.

Oh no, I rarely take anything from my guild banks since I don't really need anything that low level. I just don't like when people accuse others of thievery if it's not warranted. Athory paraphrased their rule, “Take what you need, and give what you can.” - these are not the exact words, as Athory mentioned. I would think any reasonable person would count "take what you need, give what you can", "take what you want, dump your extras", and "take some, give some" as the same thing, unless it's more clearly specified. As in, if you see something you like, take it. If you have something that has at least some value that you are not using, deposit it.

But Artanisul passed their judgement: Athory committed thievery.

I just want to know what is their ruling where the line is. You know, so that the rest of us don't accidentally become thieves.

Athory wrote: »

Maybe the real issue is that guilds need to explain their rules in a way that everyone understands clearly.

When I joined my first guild, the guild bank rule was something like: “Take what you need, and give what you can.” Maybe not those exact words, but that was the idea.
So I did exactly that. I took crafting materials because I needed to level my crafting skills. I also took a lot of motifs and recipes I didn’t have yet, and I used them all.

A day or two later, the guild leader got really angry, and we ended up arguing. Apparently, "take what you need" actually meant something like "take what you need, but not more than 5 items." But how was I supposed to know that? That limitation was never clearly explained.
Then people started talking about the value of the recipes I used. But at the time, I didn’t care about prices, I wasn’t trying to sell anything. I used everything I took, exactly as the rules seemed to allow. If some of those items were valuable, then why put them in a shared guild bank where anyone can take them?

After that, I left the guild. I joined another one, and the same thing happened.
My view of a guild bank is simple: if I put something in there for others, I don’t care if someone takes one item or everything. Otherwise, I wouldn’t put it there, I’d keep it in my personal bank where no one else has access.

So I really don’t understand why the OP is so upset about someone clearing out the bank. If you make items freely available, you have to accept that someone might take them all. It’s like standing in the street shouting:
"Free eggs!" and then getting angry when you end up with none left.

Furyous wrote: »

Athory wrote: »

Maybe the real issue is that guilds need to explain their rules in a way that everyone understands clearly.

When I joined my first guild, the guild bank rule was something like: “Take what you need, and give what you can.” Maybe not those exact words, but that was the idea.
So I did exactly that. I took crafting materials because I needed to level my crafting skills. I also took a lot of motifs and recipes I didn’t have yet, and I used them all.

A day or two later, the guild leader got really angry, and we ended up arguing. Apparently, "take what you need" actually meant something like "take what you need, but not more than 5 items." But how was I supposed to know that? That limitation was never clearly explained.
Then people started talking about the value of the recipes I used. But at the time, I didn’t care about prices, I wasn’t trying to sell anything. I used everything I took, exactly as the rules seemed to allow. If some of those items were valuable, then why put them in a shared guild bank where anyone can take them?

After that, I left the guild. I joined another one, and the same thing happened.
My view of a guild bank is simple: if I put something in there for others, I don’t care if someone takes one item or everything. Otherwise, I wouldn’t put it there, I’d keep it in my personal bank where no one else has access.

So I really don’t understand why the OP is so upset about someone clearing out the bank. If you make items freely available, you have to accept that someone might take them all. It’s like standing in the street shouting:
"Free eggs!" and then getting angry when you end up with none left.

And this right here is exactly the problem I am talking about.

You are the perfect example of why guilds need actual withdrawal limits.
Your entire post boils down to:
“If it’s in the guild bank, I’ll take everything I want, and if others needed it, too bad.”

That mindset is exactly what hurts large guilds.
You are not thinking about the other 500 people who might also need those materials, motifs, or recipes. You are only thinking about what *you* want in that moment, and assuming that because the system allows it, it must be fine.

That is the same mentality as someone emptying the entire “take a penny” tray because technically no one stopped them.
It is not about rules. It is not about clarity. It is about basic consideration for the rest of the guild.

And this is why system‑level withdrawal limits are needed.
Rules do nothing for people who do not care about anyone else.
Explanations do nothing for people who only see a free pile to strip clean.

Without actual withdrawal controls, the system rewards greed and punishes everyone else.

cyclonus11 wrote: »

People just absolutely love to play "Devil's Advocate" for no productive reason whatsoever

cyclonus11 wrote: »

People just absolutely love to play "Devil's Advocate" for no productive reason whatsoever

Furyous wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

What is it that the player took that was worth the effort? Most guilds I'm in have a lot of stuff in the bank that are helpful mainly to new players but have low sell value.

Gold I would understand, but that is controlled separately.

I would guess that some more serious guilds (trial progs, hard core PVP guilds, or even top end housing guilds) could have things that benefit the guild. Weapon power potions, parse foods, siege weapons, rare and/or commonly used furnishings. Those might be something you don't want to lose all in one go because it would be pain to restock. Haven't been in such a guild where the bank is used for something serious so I don't know, just guessing, but that would be the only thing I can think of why whatever is in the guild bank is worth the worry of losing it.

But other than that, what was lost? I can't really think of anything anyone would miss in the guilds I am in. In one guild our guild leader constantly says go and empty it if you like. I mean, if you "steal" a whole bunch of recipes and gear that you can sell for 50g each, go for it. If you need gold that badly you are willing to sell items worth less than 1k I think you need it more than the guild.

You’re looking at this only from your own perspective, and that’s the issue.

The items in a guild bank look worthless to you. But that does not mean they are worthless to everyone else.

It’s like a wealthy person looking at a food pantry and saying, “All this food is cheap, so who cares if someone steals it all?”
Of course they don’t care, they don’t need it. But the people who rely on it absolutely do.

I run a training guild. New players depend on those “worthless” items:
soul gems, food, potions, sticker book gear, basic mats.
These things are not junk to them. They are how they progress.

So when one greedy player wipes out the bank and quits, it doesn’t hurt me.
It hurts the other 499 members who actually needed those resources.

This isn’t about gold value.
It’s about fairness, access, and preventing one person from ruining it for everyone else.

This is exactly why we need withdrawal limits, to protect the people who rely on these items, not the ones who think “I don’t need it, so it must be worthless.”

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Well, the name checks out at least.

Just set your member restrictions accordingly and your problem is solved. Only give bank access to a handful of guild founding members or others who have been in the guild for YEARS, not days.

By the way, I'm in a Japanese guild and have been for about 8 years. Everyone in guild has withdraw access from the bank, even gold. Nobody has ever robbed the guild bank. I'm thinking it's a cultural difference. Not saying this to rub it in, just saying there are cultural differences and it's appropriate to take precautions when it's warranted.