SilverBride wrote: »

In my opinion anything that needs a way to counter it's effects should not keep being added to the game, especially to fundamental things such as skills. Why keep adding things that are causing so much distress?

Bguk wrote: »

Please use a whole phrase rather than just one sentence to adjust the quote to your thought. ZOS is already planning on making things better for players who don't like it/hurts them/ etc. If ZOS is trying to accommodate all players before implementing anything, then none are. It's nice they're correcting a missed thought.

SilverBride wrote: »

Bguk wrote: »

Please use a whole phrase rather than just one sentence to adjust the quote to your thought. ZOS is already planning on making things better for players who don't like it/hurts them/ etc. If ZOS is trying to accommodate all players before implementing anything, then none are. It's nice they're correcting a missed thought.

I quote the part of a post that I am addressing specifically.

And will their option take the light show away from the 2H skills or will it just be mounts and recalls etc.? Carrying the bright flashiness to skills crossed a line that never should have been crossed in my opinion.

SilverBride wrote: »

Bguk wrote: »

This is an MMO not a single player game.

As such all players need to be considered before making changes that could be as disruptive as these effects have been. Especially when they are drastic changes from the way the game was at the start.

SilverBride wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

This is literally the first place I've seen people complaining about the 2H effects so I'm sure you're being hyperbolic with "so much distress".

It's mentioned in other threads, and it is causing me distress because I can't play my DK now because of it.

My DK is a strong Nord woman and wants to look like one rather than looking like she is wielding flashy toy weapons.

Bguk wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I never moved the goalposts. I never once indicated that I was asking anyone other than ZOS.

Original Post:

SilverBride wrote: »

Why is everything becoming more cartoony? What is the reason for this trend? It didn't used to be like this. ESO used to be the most realistic game I had ever played and I loved that about it. It was so much more immersive when we were represented as realistic players in a realistic world.

Now everything is bright and loud and flashy. Why?

Cartoons are bright and loud and flashy for a reason. They are created for children who have short attention spans. They need constant motion and loud noises and bright lights to keep them watching. But children aren't the target audience of this game made for adults. So why is it being presented this way?

Something caused this trend to happen and I'd like some insight into why. Because it is destroying the experience for many of us.

Can you direct me to where you never once indicated you were asking anyone other than ZOS in a public forum post?

SilverBride wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

This is literally the first place I've seen people complaining about the 2H effects so I'm sure you're being hyperbolic with "so much distress".

It's mentioned in other threads, and it is causing me distress because I can't play my DK now because of it.

My DK is a strong Nord woman and wants to look like one rather than looking like she is wielding flashy toy weapons.

Strong nord women? Like from South Park? Kidding obviously, I'm am not unsympathetic that you feel your character is messed up. No one wants that. I think people feel that it's pretty well received though. It's never gonna be a slam dunk. I just don't think it should be changed because a few people are unhappy. I think a great thing for them to do is make many different skill styles for stuff and put them in different spots to earn in game.

The only skill styles I have seen for 2H skills is to make them red. But that's what they did with the 2H changes. It would be great if they made skill styles that remove bright lights from weapons because they are always in our faces.

And these new lights override weapon styles that players spent money for, so it affects them a lot more negatively.

StackonClown wrote: »

question remains: did WOW developers recently join ZOS?

Syldras wrote: »

Tariq9898 wrote: »

Not the person asked but for me, anime is by far the most intrusive when it comes to bright lights.

Anime is a visual art (can't even say "genre" because within it, all genres exist, just like all genres exist for novels, or live action movies, or music). Despite different traditions I wouldn't even say it's something different from Western animated cartoons - the only thing that makes it anime is, by definition, that it's an animated cartoon from Japan. Which can look like the video you linked above. Or it can look like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hKi1VlE94A

It's been a few decades since my early childhood, but I can't remember that having flashy effects Or Vicky the Viking, or Maya the Honey Bee, which are also all, by definition, anime = animated cartoons from Japan.

So I think if we talk about very colorful and flashy effects here, it might be better - if just for the sake of precision - to call it exactly that. Because anime, or cartoons as a whole, include many vastly different visual styles (the only thing they have in common, really, is that they're drawn instead of having real people as actors playing the roles).

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Tariq9898 wrote: »

Not the person asked but for me, anime is by far the most intrusive when it comes to bright lights.

Anime is a visual art (can't even say "genre" because within it, all genres exist, just like all genres exist for novels, or live action movies, or music). Despite different traditions I wouldn't even say it's something different from Western animated cartoons - the only thing that makes it anime is, by definition, that it's an animated cartoon from Japan. Which can look like the video you linked above. Or it can look like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hKi1VlE94A

It's been a few decades since my early childhood, but I can't remember that having flashy effects Or Vicky the Viking, or Maya the Honey Bee, which are also all, by definition, anime = animated cartoons from Japan.

So I think if we talk about very colorful and flashy effects here, it might be better - if just for the sake of precision - to call it exactly that. Because anime, or cartoons as a whole, include many vastly different visual styles (the only thing they have in common, really, is that they're drawn instead of having real people as actors playing the roles).

Generally speaking, for what it seems to be the online consensus: Wuthering Waves, or even Naraka to an extent, can be defined "anime art style" and no one would define WoW or Fortnite anime but absolutely "cartoon art style" - being blind to this is a choice, but the difference is evident, I repeat, in general terms.

Anyway, Elder Scrolls has a unique art style, and when Oblivion Remaster launched some felt the style was getting a bit lost.
ESO, as someone else said, has always sent the vibes of a "more realistic looking" game, even with its fantasy traits.
I remember the horse from the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion - it made you feel powerful with minimum effects. We had a similar horse in the ESO store for years, but for what we have now as effects, that one is lost in nothingness.

The addition of a setting that hides other players' effects will do good for the game, but I get OP's fear for the artistic direction of the game - Why decide to lean into the "cartoon"? Who is the target now? What is the limit, if there is one? Are Devs in love and willing to preserve Elder Scrolls' art uniqueness or are they willing to follow trends like the upcoming AI one?

Syldras wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Generally speaking, for what it seems to be the online consensus: Wuthering Waves, or even Naraka to an extent, can be defined "anime art style" and no one would define WoW or Fortnite anime but absolutely "cartoon art style" - being blind to this is a choice, but the difference is evident, I repeat, in general terms.

Anyway, Elder Scrolls has a unique art style, and when Oblivion Remaster launched some felt the style was getting a bit lost.
ESO, as someone else said, has always sent the vibes of a "more realistic looking" game, even with its fantasy traits.
I remember the horse from the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion - it made you feel powerful with minimum effects. We had a similar horse in the ESO store for years, but for what we have now as effects, that one is lost in nothingness.

The addition of a setting that hides other players' effects will do good for the game, but I get OP's fear for the artistic direction of the game - Why decide to lean into the "cartoon"? Who is the target now? What is the limit, if there is one? Are Devs in love and willing to preserve Elder Scrolls' art uniqueness or are they willing to follow trends like the upcoming AI one?

I'm honestly not sure why you are noting this beneath a quote of a post of mine that was solely about the suggestion that precise wording is probably the best in this discussion, because everyone will have an idea what "overly colorful, bright and flashy" means - while both cartoon and anime are art forms that can look vastly different from production to production, so people will have different ideas about what "cartoon style" or "anime style" even mean as a term. We've even seen it happening in this thread, with people saying "cartoon doesn't mean flashy", or asking what exactly is or is not "cartoon" or "anime" about ESO, because they have a different understanding of these concepts. So just precisely describing things ("unnatural body proportions in characters", "explosion effects", "garish colors") might be the better than coming up with more open-to-interpretion terms like "cartoon" or "anime". Even if there's some "online consensus" - lots of people don't seem to be aware of that. And if we want to discuss a topic, we need to communicate in a way that's easily understandable.

I'm also one of the users who have emphasized that ESO, or TES as a whole, always had more natural, subdued, graphics, by the way, and who is very critical of the stylistic changes ESO went through in the past decade, that not only feel like a stylistic discontinuity, but in its flashyness even disturb the gameplay itself - by not being able anymore to see damage indicators during fights, or by not being able to normally follow quest dialogues because loud and flashy teleport animations obscure the whole screen and drown out the spoken dialogue.

twisttop138 wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Tariq9898 wrote: »

Not the person asked but for me, anime is by far the most intrusive when it comes to bright lights.

Anime is a visual art (can't even say "genre" because within it, all genres exist, just like all genres exist for novels, or live action movies, or music). Despite different traditions I wouldn't even say it's something different from Western animated cartoons - the only thing that makes it anime is, by definition, that it's an animated cartoon from Japan. Which can look like the video you linked above. Or it can look like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hKi1VlE94A

It's been a few decades since my early childhood, but I can't remember that having flashy effects Or Vicky the Viking, or Maya the Honey Bee, which are also all, by definition, anime = animated cartoons from Japan.

So I think if we talk about very colorful and flashy effects here, it might be better - if just for the sake of precision - to call it exactly that. Because anime, or cartoons as a whole, include many vastly different visual styles (the only thing they have in common, really, is that they're drawn instead of having real people as actors playing the roles).

Generally speaking, for what it seems to be the online consensus: Wuthering Waves, or even Naraka to an extent, can be defined "anime art style" and no one would define WoW or Fortnite anime but absolutely "cartoon art style" - being blind to this is a choice, but the difference is evident, I repeat, in general terms.

Anyway, Elder Scrolls has a unique art style, and when Oblivion Remaster launched some felt the style was getting a bit lost.
ESO, as someone else said, has always sent the vibes of a "more realistic looking" game, even with its fantasy traits.
I remember the horse from the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion - it made you feel powerful with minimum effects. We had a similar horse in the ESO store for years, but for what we have now as effects, that one is lost in nothingness.

The addition of a setting that hides other players' effects will do good for the game, but I get OP's fear for the artistic direction of the game - Why decide to lean into the "cartoon"? Who is the target now? What is the limit, if there is one? Are Devs in love and willing to preserve Elder Scrolls' art uniqueness or are they willing to follow trends like the upcoming AI one?

*I don't know that we can say the devs don't love the game or elder scrolls. That goes too far.* You ask who the target is, I would say large swathes of the community. Again, this is a for profit company who's sole purpose is to make money. There will for sure be a team who tracks this stuff, find out what is popular, what will get the most people into the crown store and get them to make a purchase. With how many radiant apex flashy mounts and stuff there is, I'd say the target is pretty large. It's a known fact that mmo players love to customize. They want unique looks and on top of that people want the newest, coolest thing. It may not be my thing, but many people want others to look at them with their expensive stuff and go oh damn. I wish I had that. I'd argue that ZOS also wants that. I'd also argue that they make tons of understated and plain mounts, pets and costumes. Because, again, players love to customize.

It's not about following an art style, or staying within the cannon. Really they should do what fallout 76 did. Everything in the cash shop exists outside the canon. They just want to make what people will buy and of course, people are buying it. I'm not saying any of this is right or wrong. It just is.