Warden Rework (Frost Builds)

ISO_Flow · March 7

Hey peeps.

So I know I am not the only one pumped for the warden rework and im not the only one who wants frost builds to be a thing. But do you think there will be variations?
Or is it likely that we will just have a tn of identical frost wardens when the popular build drops? How many options are these pure class reworks providing?

ViggyBoi · March 8

I don't think I completely understand what you mean by frost warden variation. Frost Wardens are wardens who specialize in frost as their main damage type/source. That doesn't mean every skill deals frost just a majority, meaning that there already exist variations within that definition. Do you mean like, more skills to make use of? Like Winter's embrace having more damage morphs?

ESO_Nightingale · March 8

ViggyBoi wrote: »

I don't think I completely understand what you mean by frost warden variation. Frost Wardens are wardens who specialize in frost as their main damage type/source. That doesn't mean every skill deals frost just a majority, meaning that there already exist variations within that definition. Do you mean like, more skills to make use of? Like Winter's embrace having more damage morphs?

I think they mean different playstyles with noticibly different rotations, like engulfing dragonfire vs molten whip builds.

Currently frost warden kind of only really has rotating master's frost reach and thats pretty suboptimal. Outside of the crappy ice staff, "frost dps" is literally just Winter's Revenge and Arctic Blast which are 2 DoTs that are inflated with chilled proc to make them not bad.

ISO_Flow · March 9

Yes what @ESO_Nightingale said.

While I will still enjoy playing my much better frost Warden. I will be a little sad if it essentially has to be played one specific way and we are al identical lol

Kalthea · March 9

Hi! I main a Warden that specializes in frost damage.

More choices would definitely be welcome, as right now my build is Oakensoul with Winter's revenge. My other slots are filled up by Ice Comet, the Scribing fireball skill made into frost with an added DoT, Destro Staff's Unstable Wall of Elements along with a flex, and finally: SHALK. I'M SO TIRED OF SHALK IN EVERY BUILD ON WARDEN. It is NOT fun to use. I specifically use it with my Frostball skill because if you hit Shalk and then the ball immediately after, they both go off at the same time and basically delete any trash in the way. (A fun combo, but seriously, I hate Shalk.)

Point being: There is functionally only a single Frost Warden DPS skill in my build. I could swap out the Ultimate if I wanted to, but there isn't much of a reason to do so outside of extra AoE. Having the Comet slotted gives me passive bonuses from the Mages Guild skill line.

SandandStars · March 14

If I had one wish for Warden (as a PVP/battlegrounds person), it would be for a class spammable OTHER THAN CLIFF RACERS, preferably one that does frost damage. I don't even want it to be OP (MOLTEN WHIP-WHIP-WHIP), I'd just like it to work well enough to actually hit another player in PVP, and lend a bit of synergy to Warden's ice-thing.

I realize this will never happen. But sometimes you gotta dream. That big kooky bird flails like a broken umbrella towards targets that dodge it 96% of the time.

I'm tired of having to use Master's Ice Staff to have a ranged spammable on my magden. I want flexibiity to theorycraft more builds.

Ahem.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · March 14

Just please, no beam on the Warden! Buff Whorl of the Depths or do ANYTHING else but force us to wear Ansuuls or Null Arc

Kalthea · March 16

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

Just please, no beam on the Warden! Buff Whorl of the Depths or do ANYTHING else but force us to wear Ansuuls or Null Arc

Why buff Whorl? Not everyone plays Trials.

ESO_Nightingale · March 17

Kalthea wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

Just please, no beam on the Warden! Buff Whorl of the Depths or do ANYTHING else but force us to wear Ansuuls or Null Arc

Why buff Whorl? Not everyone plays Trials.

I dont think whorl needs a buff. But winterborn and icy conjuror sure do.

ZhuJiuyin · March 17

The Ice Furnace、Iceheart also need buff.

ViggyBoi · March 18

ISO_Flow wrote: »

Yes what @ESO_Nightingale said.

While I will still enjoy playing my much better frost Warden. I will be a little sad if it essentially has to be played one specific way and we are al identical lol

Ah makes sense gotcha

ViggyBoi · March 18

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

Just please, no beam on the Warden! Buff Whorl of the Depths or do ANYTHING else but force us to wear Ansuuls or Null Arc

ICE BEAM!!!

Wait wrong game...

brandsnipe · March 19

Warden refresh can't get here soon enough. Not just for frost mages, but bringing the green balance line up to compete with restoring light line has to be a priority. I think one of the vine morphs should be poison ivy and gives poison damage in a AoE around you or to attacking enemies. Nature's grasp skill needs to be completely overhauled as does frozen gate from winters embrace line. The animal companions line can be heavy on bleed damage
Looking at the class mastery scripts, warden seems to be heading in the direction of applying status effects. Bleed/chilled/poison and maybe disease seem to fit both the scripts and class lines.

SandandStars · March 21

Watch them do something completely un-fun to the Bear Ultimate. "Now emits a Tundra Roar, snaring opponents for 3 seconds and causing the chilled status effect."

I slot the bear for the extra crit damage in pvp, but it's the least fun/engaging ultimate ever.

Oh my God. I just realized what they're gonna do on the Warden refresh.

They're gonna strip the crit damage passive from animal companions. This will trash my most effective pvp builds. Sorry in advance, y'all. It was my fault.

ESO_Nightingale · March 22

SandandStars wrote: »

Watch them do something completely un-fun to the Bear Ultimate. "Now emits a Tundra Roar, snaring opponents for 3 seconds and causing the chilled status effect."

I slot the bear for the extra crit damage in pvp, but it's the least fun/engaging ultimate ever.

Oh my God. I just realized what they're gonna do on the Warden refresh.

They're gonna strip the crit damage passive from animal companions. This will trash my most effective pvp builds. Sorry in advance, y'all. It was my fault.

This is a lot of doom and gloom based on nothing but assumptions.

YandereGirlfriend · March 22

Frost Shalks moved to Winter's Embrace LET'S GO!!

ESO_Nightingale · March 22

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Frost Shalks moved to Winter's Embrace LET'S GO!!

This is also an assumption

SandandStars · March 22

Yes, I'll admit that navigating the path of this game (as a pvp'r) off and on for a few years has made me gloomy on occasion.

Point taken.

I'm still sore about update 35.

Kalthea · March 23

Please remember that while the upcoming update will change Frost builds, it is ultimately a WARDEN rework in its entirety. As far as we know, the fundamentals of the class could change completely, and discussing armor set adjustments before we even know what we're getting (regardless of their use in said Frost builds), or speculating on changes and additions isn't going to do anything. ZOS already has their balance teams working on it. Be patient!

I for one am excited at the possibility of Animal Companion adjustments. I would love to see that skill line gain some synergy with the rest of Warden, even if it has to be Shalks for whatever reason. Hate Shalks.

SandandStars · March 23

I appreciate your perspective, Kalthea. I'll try to keep an open mind.

I actually have always enjoyed shalks as a warden in pvp because they require you to develop a good sense of rhtymn and timing/placement to use effectively. I like constantly dodge rolling and keeping those warden wings going -- moving fast - while pelting foes with frost reach and lining up the shalks the whole while. Tend to work in a fast circle around an enemy at mid range (just out of whips) and keep up constant pressure while sprinting/rolling.

My pain point with warden's kit has always been cliff racers (see above). I actually don't mind that the class doesn't have a good execute. The bear is awful in pvp: it does great damage, but I can't control anything it's doing while I'm dealing with the quick pace of pvp.

Also, the strong penetration shalks provides really frees the class up for theorycrafting fun/off-meta builds.

HOWEVER. I think your advice is very on point. They'll probably fundamentally change a few things. And hopefully I can adapt that into a pvp playing style I enjoy. We shall see...

Kalthea · March 23

SandandStars wrote: »

I appreciate your perspective, Kalthea. I'll try to keep an open mind.

I actually have always enjoyed shalks as a warden in pvp because they require you to develop a good sense of rhtymn and timing/placement to use effectively. I like constantly dodge rolling and keeping those warden wings going -- moving fast - while pelting foes with frost reach and lining up the shalks the whole while. Tend to work in a fast circle around an enemy at mid range (just out of whips) and keep up constant pressure while sprinting/rolling.

My pain point with warden's kit has always been cliff racers (see above). I actually don't mind that the class doesn't have a good execute. The bear is awful in pvp: it does great damage, but I can't control anything it's doing while I'm dealing with the quick pace of pvp.

Also, the strong penetration shalks provides really frees the class up for theorycrafting fun/off-meta builds.

HOWEVER. I think your advice is very on point. They'll probably fundamentally change a few things. And hopefully I can adapt that into a pvp playing style I enjoy. We shall see...

Yeah, it can fun making off meta builds for sure, but the Shalks do so much burst damage and provide two of the most wanted debuffs that it makes them an almost guaranteed pick on Warden, and I can't stand the delayed attack, then activating again just to get the stronger of the two bursts (since they changed the first burst to be more powerful in a shorter window, maintaining it is technically a DPS increase). It's just frustration in a bottle, with an insane damage spike.

LittlePinkDot · March 24

I honestly don't know what they're going to do with warden. The animal companions skill line and the winters embrace skill line seem like they do not go together at all. But they need to put some kind of decent ice spammable on winters embrace.

ESO_Nightingale · March 24

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

I honestly don't know what they're going to do with warden. The animal companions skill line and the winters embrace skill line seem like they do not go together at all. But they need to put some kind of decent ice spammable on winters embrace.

i think they can help merge the lines into a more shared unity by having frost damage morphs on animal companions.

SandandStars · March 24

^^ I really like this idea.

Please, if you're reading this development team, and you're considering reworking an ice-themed spammable for warden, please do a fresh animation (not cliff racers) that travels faster and in a straight trajectory so that it is actually viable in PVP. Something simpler visually (not like flame skulls or cliff racers) as the more ornate-looking skills tend to get buggy/laggy in pvp.

It can do moderate damage (like a spammable should?) but please give it the speed and utility to actually be slotted and useful for a pvp build.

Thanks for your hard work and consideration.

ESO_Nightingale · March 26

SandandStars wrote: »

^^ I really like this idea.

Please, if you're reading this development team, and you're considering reworking an ice-themed spammable for warden, please do a fresh animation (not cliff racers) that travels faster and in a straight trajectory so that it is actually viable in PVP. Something simpler visually (not like flame skulls or cliff racers) as the more ornate-looking skills tend to get buggy/laggy in pvp.

It can do moderate damage (like a spammable should?) but please give it the speed and utility to actually be slotted and useful for a pvp build.

Thanks for your hard work and consideration.

It might sound weird but i reckon a good option to make a melee frost spammable would be a reworked morph of frost cloak. Having access to that utility on our spammable would make it a usable for damage dealers

Kalthea · March 26

I wouldn't get your hopes too high for a Frost spammable. I realize that Warden is the only class in the game with a Frost line ,but remember that the original theme was for Frost to be the tank. No matter what you get, Frost Staves will always be a more tanky option than a DPS one until they opt to change out the staff for something else. (Personally, I wouldn't mind a staff focused around Alteration that focuses on buffs, debuffs and wards as a tanking magicka option, which could then free up Ice Destruction staff for being actual DPS focused on status application)

ItsNotLiving · March 26

I really hope warden still has a complete animal and plant theme because not all of us picked up the class to play an ice mage.

Destai · March 26

As a long time Warden main, I'm really in a burnt out place with them. I'm really excited to see what the rework looks like, especially after how awesome the DK rework was.

In terms of Frost Mage, I'd love to have a functional Frost Mage, with its own spammable and other kit staples. I feel like lines like Winters Embrace and Green Balance really need one support (tank/heal) morph and one DPS (morph) so the class is truly the jack-of-all-trades it's supposed to be.

I'm curious what the whole "power of the seasons" concept actually looks like. Whatever it is, I want less Vvardenfell and more High Isle in this class. While I love Mr. Snuggles and his aggressive counter snuggles strategy, I'm really tired of having the big ol' bear out and in my way. Really want other options for DPS on this class.

ESO_Nightingale · March 26

Kalthea wrote: »

I wouldn't get your hopes too high for a Frost spammable. I realize that Warden is the only class in the game with a Frost line ,but remember that the original theme was for Frost to be the tank. No matter what you get, Frost Staves will always be a more tanky option than a DPS one until they opt to change out the staff for something else. (Personally, I wouldn't mind a staff focused around Alteration that focuses on buffs, debuffs and wards as a tanking magicka option, which could then free up Ice Destruction staff for being actual DPS focused on status application)

while we shouldn't "get our hopes up" for specific things, i dont see why getting a frost spammable on winter's embrace would be a problem or something they'd not do. the whole "frost is for tanking" thing has been fought against for years and now given all of the changes in the past, they understand that frost dps is incredibly popular. not to mention that they're also changing the way lines are designed to spread utility and damage more evenly among them. your way of thinking is definitely based on the past.

there's definitely room for another spammable on warden and specifically a melee one at that, since dive is already considered our ranged one, however annoying it may be to use. nightblade, templar and dk all have distinct melee and ranged spammables already.

Destai · March 26

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Kalthea wrote: »

I wouldn't get your hopes too high for a Frost spammable. I realize that Warden is the only class in the game with a Frost line ,but remember that the original theme was for Frost to be the tank. No matter what you get, Frost Staves will always be a more tanky option than a DPS one until they opt to change out the staff for something else. (Personally, I wouldn't mind a staff focused around Alteration that focuses on buffs, debuffs and wards as a tanking magicka option, which could then free up Ice Destruction staff for being actual DPS focused on status application)

while we shouldn't "get our hopes up" for specific things, i dont see why getting a frost spammable on winter's embrace would be a problem or something they'd not do. the whole "frost is for tanking" thing has been fought against for years and now given all of the changes in the past, they understand that frost dps is incredibly popular. not to mention that they're also changing the way lines are designed to spread utility and damage more evenly among them. your way of thinking is definitely based on the past.

there's definitely room for another spammable on warden and specifically a melee one at that, since dive is already considered our ranged one, however annoying it may be to use. nightblade, templar and dk all have distinct melee and ranged spammables already.

100% agree with this. There's no reason we couldn't have a skill that's a taunt in one morph and a DPS spammable in another. I don't see why we need two morphs for the same function, with minor differences. There's always going to be a stronger morph as the game's history has showed us.

I honestly feel like Alec should call up SkinnyCheeks who had an amazing proposal for the class. There's so much potential, I just think the combat team needs a fresh set of eyes to cut out the noise and focus in on what really feels good.

LittlePinkDot · March 27

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

I honestly don't know what they're going to do with warden. The animal companions skill line and the winters embrace skill line seem like they do not go together at all. But they need to put some kind of decent ice spammable on winters embrace.

i think they can help merge the lines into a more shared unity by having frost damage morphs on animal companions.

My warden is a blood mage theme with blood drinkers set. I guess I should expect her to be completely ruined?