We are moth.

Stop comparing people who enjoy color to children. I've seen you make that comment many times, and I think it's super demeaning and insulting. There are better ways to talk about this subject relating to your own preferences, rather than trying to bring others down just because you don't like something. It's unnecessary to constantly be like "this is for adults, so it shouldn't be coloful"

Adults can enjoy color, and exciting things as well. It doesn't make anyone more mature, better, nor does it mean they lack an attention span. Magic and fantasy should be colorful and exciting, to make it mystical. The step away from constant drab, boring graphics and skills that frankly weren't flashy enough is a step in the right direction.

I'm so sick of this attitude on these forums that "if it's for adults it has to be boring"

Las vegas is for adults. Is it drab and boring? NO.

Yeah, some of the mounts are overkill. Oh well. I am able to ignore them, because I'm an adult who can filter out things he does not like.

It isn't destroying the experience for a lot of people.

Maybe give Chivalry II a try if you want realism.

Radiant Apex mounts have been over the top for as long as I've been playing so why bring it up now?
If you are referring to skills refreshes than I haven't seen 2h but DK skills are awesome. It finally feels satisfying playing DK. It was one my 2 least favorite classes before.

Trier_Sero wrote: »

Radiant Apex mounts have been over the top for as long as I've been playing so why bring it up now?
If you are referring to skills refreshes than I haven't seen 2h but DK skills are awesome. It finally feels satisfying playing DK. It was one my 2 least favorite classes before.

My DK uses a 2H sword, or at least she used to because what they did to the 2H skills is unbearable. I can no longer play her like this and other weapons just do not fit what I see a strong Nord DK wielding.

So yes this is what prompted me to ask why this increased trend toward the cartoony effects.

They say something is coming for players to deal with these effects but what? And when? And why not just stop making these intrusive effects until they get something in place for us that don't enjoy them?

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

While I personally prefer more utilitarian/earthy kind of designs (never buying the flashy stuff), these being added into the game doesn't shock me.

But lacking them as a whole would, as it would be poor world design.

This is what upsets me about the current design direction of the game. I do like some of the colourful designs, but lately there has been increasingly brighter and more intensely coloured effects, to the point where it has become physically painful to experience them. The balance has shifted so drastically that it is no longer a question of taste but of comfort. And in my opinion, it is totally a question of balance. I honestly think it would look dull not to have the occasional pop of colour, but if everything was an explosion of bright and intense colour, it's just way too much.

However, to complicate things, I don't think it's something a single setting can achieve, because some effects are fine, whilst others are too bright. I don't know how a single setting can bring it to a good equilibrium. For example, something like the Psijic Exemplar is imo fine, whilst the crimson Twilight or Khenarthi's Thundersteed is just too much. I would love it if we could keep some colour, but were able to just tone down the brighter effects.

To me it feels like there was not much thought or interest in a consistent art direction anymore; as in asking oneself certain specific questions to decide if or if not to release a thing, to make sure that wandering through Tamriel in ESO feels like a well-rounded and coherent experience of this fictional world.

And with that I mean both questions like lore ("Does this thing make sense in the depicted world?"), but also design principles. For example something like "Rare artifacts must look otherworldly and more special than any other items, to emphasize their meaning in the fictional world" or "Incursions are supposed to be the most extreme events in overland, so player effects need to clearly be less flashy and noisy than those", or just generally "How can ESO's art style be described? Does this new thing we want to release fit that style?"

Also in writing, of course, where things would matter like "What are common themes and problems in Tamriel?", "What do the Tamrielic cultures think about different topics, which different cultural values and beliefs to they have?" or "Which speech style do these cultures have?"

Instead, today's writing feels more like "I like memes! (or "The consumers like memes"?) So let's put memes everywhere!", not taking into consideration at all whether it even fits the depicted world (and it's style and tone) or not. Which honestly does remind me a bit of how some children play; let's say a kid loves Spider Man, then Spider Man must up everywhere else too, and meets He-Man, Sponge Bob, My Little Pony world, and Princess Elsa (or what ever kids might like nowadays, I have no clue). And that's okay - but I want to see more thought about plausibility and world building being put into a fantasy narration for adults, especially one with a very extensive lore background, that many players love for exactly that reason.

It's generally strange by the way that it doesn't feel like there's a big focus on some aspects that made ESO special and that many players loved. Like the more realistic graphics compared to other MMOs, or in terms of writing and lore the different moral choices in quests, or the specific depiction of Tamriel's races, for example. Those were clearly strong and unique points, and I do wonder how ESO would have developed if a focus would have been put on these aspects.

twisttop138 wrote: »

I can totally understand the dislike, though it doesn't bother me at all. I did like the understated speeders of swtor though the plain green czerka speeder was my fav along with the rancor so I get enjoying not flashy stuff. I think, though, it would be foolish to assume that ZOS doesn't have a team whose main focus is what sells, who buys it and why. Along with what tactics lead to the most sales but that's a different topic. I would think that your answer lies there. They keep making that stuff because it sells gamble boxes.

This feels a bit like a cafe promoting vodka-shot happy hours. The regulars will only tolerate so much before you are left with the boozers. Yes you can sell to both, you can try to strike a balance, but more likely than not you end up running neither a romantic cafe nor a lively bar.
For me ESOs main appeal was that it was decidedly not anime-styled or adjacent to that. I think people who want the game to go more in this direction have more than enough options.
Saying that the sales justify the art direction would imply that their subdued stuff wouldn't sell comparably, but there is no indication for that.
This flashy stuff is in my eyes just displaying a lack of creativity, adding just enough fire to the mount to not give re-color vibes won't fool me.
Whenever I get such "rare" items from crates unlocked I am just disappointed that I can't cash them out for gems immediately.

Why are we picking on cartoons? Adults can like them just as much as children. Including those adults (and children) with long attention spans. The holier than though attitude is strong in MMO forums.

I personally like that they introduced more flash. Brings life to a previously blander world. Make the world more magical. Make it lively. As others have said, I get why people don't like it. Which is why the fx slider (way to tone down graphics) is being introduced.

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

My main objection to the flashy effects (from summons, teleports, and skills) is that they are too intense/opaque. It's bad enough in third person view, but it's far worse in first person view at a vendor or bank. Then the flash of someone popping off their flashy skill is incredibly intense and makes me wince. To the example from the end of page 1, I can easily see how that could trigger issues for someone with photosensitivity. And for anyone thinking, "It's fine and not a problem" all I can say is just wait - you'll notice these things bothering you more and more as your eyes age.

Bguk wrote: »

I personally like that they introduced more flash. Brings life to a previously blander world. Make the world more magical. Make it lively. As others have said, I get why people don't like it. Which is why the fx slider (way to tone down graphics) is being introduced.

Unfortunately, from the quote included in another post on page 1 of this thread, it appears that it isn't going to be a slider. Quite what it will be is anyone's guess at this point; the only thing we know for sure is that it's going to be part of the accessibility options.

You're right, it can be anyone's guess, which is why I included "(way to tone down graphics)" in my response. Slider was a guess, not a be all end all. Hapy they are including the option (finally) whatever it will be.

"Syldras wrote:

...

Instead, today's writing feels more like "I like memes! (or "The consumers like memes"?) So let's put memes everywhere!", not taking into consideration at all whether it even fits the depicted world (and it's style and tone) or not. Which honestly does remind me a bit of how some children play; let's say a kid loves Spider Man, then Spider Man must up everywhere else too, and meets He-Man, Sponge Bob, My Little Pony world, and Princess Elsa (or what ever kids might like nowadays, I have no clue). And that's okay - but I want to see more thought about plausibility and world building being put into a fantasy narration for adults, especially one with a very extensive lore background, that many players love for exactly that reason.
...

This, along with what ADarklore said.

I was looking at mods for Skyrim last night - was actually trying to figure out why some of my years-old mods weren't firing anymore. Now, I don't go for flashy ones, mostly bug fixes, improved scenery textures, and lore-appropriate clothing or the very important ability to have cats in my houses . At any rate, as I was trolling through, one caught my eye and made me laugh/groan/make a note and keep going. A plushie flying mount. A lore-breaking, available in multiple colors, stuffed shark you can ride through the air. And apparently if you crash into the ground instead of landing appropriately, they also tend to burrow in. Perhaps this was a dwemer experiment gone badly awry?

The difference? Skyrim is a single player game. If you want to play the entire game with your 'toon clothed in nothing but a bright red bow riding a fearsome neon pink shark into battle, no one else will know unless you post screenshots. The accessibility or playability for your particular physical needs - avoidance of bright flashes due to migraine trigger, loud noises, whatever - is absolutely reserved to you. If you want, instead, to brighten the world up with neon lights and disco sets, find a mod and do it. It's your game and your game alone.

ESO is not a single player game although you can, of course, play solo. Those bright lights you love may adversely affect others nearby. Does that mean you shouldn't have them? No, it means the devs should have thought ahead and included some mechanism to temper the brightness of those particular animations rather than simply release the shiny into the wild without thinking of any consequences. It's not rocket science, and the devs have far more talent and ability than to do such a careless thing.

For the 'cartoon' aspect of things: GW2 has a lot of plushie stuff, too. Mounts, backpacks, anime-inspired outfits. The thing is this - except for the mounts (and only on rare occasion), I've only noticed people using those items when meeting with friends or guildmates in major towns in pre-arranged areas out of the way of crafting hubs or other areas they might otherwise impede traffic. Out 'in the wild', they're tending to wear much more lore-inspired armors, some of those are still clearly anime-inspired though not completely inappropriate because one of the lands of GW is heavily Asian-inspired which also uses many of the recognizable fantasy tropes. And by that, I mean the armors may have long streamers/ribbons, for example, and are cut in a certain way that is distinctly not European "medieval"-esque. It works because it's not bringing in something absolutely, completely non-gameworld. To be clear, there is that, as well, but it's far less intrusive than ESO's.

Putting the lore-questionable content aside, sudden bright lights or loud noises are known physical or emotional triggers for many, whether it's a neurological disorder or PTSD or some other cause.

BretonMage wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

While I personally prefer more utilitarian/earthy kind of designs (never buying the flashy stuff), these being added into the game doesn't shock me.

But lacking them as a whole would, as it would be poor world design.

This is what upsets me about the current design direction of the game. I do like some of the colourful designs, but lately there has been increasingly brighter and more intensely coloured effects, to the point where it has become physically painful to experience them. The balance has shifted so drastically that it is no longer a question of taste but of comfort. And in my opinion, it is totally a question of balance. I honestly think it would look dull not to have the occasional pop of colour, but if everything was an explosion of bright and intense colour, it's just way too much.

However, to complicate things, I don't think it's something a single setting can achieve, because some effects are fine, whilst others are too bright. I don't know how a single setting can bring it to a good equilibrium. For example, something like the Psijic Exemplar is imo fine, whilst the crimson Twilight or Khenarthi's Thundersteed is just too much. I would love it if we could keep some colour, but were able to just tone down the brighter effects.

Some things could just generally be shoe-horned under the "Show Additional Ally Effects" setting based on player feedback, but also make sure your Bloom setting is turned off.

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

...the only thing we know for sure is that it's going to be part of the accessibility options.

@ZOS_Erin Please tell us we will not have to play in accessibility mode to use these options because there is no way I am going to play in accessibility mode.

The biggest live service games out there are cartoony because it sells. Lots!

World Of Warcraft, Fortnite, Overwatch, Marvel Rivals, Roblox, Palworld etc.

When I see ESO screenshots people are usually putting it on 'vibrant' mode or use ReShade with high saturation, so it looks even more 'cartoony'. So, I guess this is something many people enjoy and that is why they are doubling down on it.

Also do you play MMO's for realism? Seems the wrong genre... If you want realistic graphics then something like Assassins Creed, Red Dead Redemption, Kingdom Come Deliverance seem like a better fit.

There will be sliders soon to turn down visual effects and mute colors for people who don't like this.

Vaqual wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

I can totally understand the dislike, though it doesn't bother me at all. I did like the understated speeders of swtor though the plain green czerka speeder was my fav along with the rancor so I get enjoying not flashy stuff. I think, though, it would be foolish to assume that ZOS doesn't have a team whose main focus is what sells, who buys it and why. Along with what tactics lead to the most sales but that's a different topic. I would think that your answer lies there. They keep making that stuff because it sells gamble boxes.

This feels a bit like a cafe promoting vodka-shot happy hours. The regulars will only tolerate so much before you are left with the boozers. Yes you can sell to both, you can try to strike a balance, but more likely than not you end up running neither a romantic cafe nor a lively bar.
For me ESOs main appeal was that it was decidedly not anime-styled or adjacent to that. I think people who want the game to go more in this direction have more than enough options.
Saying that the sales justify the art direction would imply that their subdued stuff wouldn't sell comparably, but there is no indication for that.
This flashy stuff is in my eyes just displaying a lack of creativity, adding just enough fire to the mount to not give re-color vibes won't fool me.
Whenever I get such "rare" items from crates unlocked I am just disappointed that I can't cash them out for gems immediately.

Your analogy implies that you and others who dislike a certain type of thing are the regulars who are playing the game correctly. Therefore those who like flashy things are passersby who are playing incorrectly and what they like is going to ruin the game. I would say you ate wildly incorrect. I have no dog in the fight but that blatant us vs them, the way I play is the majority and should be listened to stuff is BS. They make many varied things. If people didn't want it, they wouldn't sell it. Full stop. I also never implied that plain stuff wouldn't sell. There's tons of it and it sells well I'm sure. I have a metric ton of plain jane mounts and pets that don't do anything crazy. I would actually say they're in the majority of stuff sold and the top tier of things are the flashy stuff. In the end though, one thing to keep in mind. Zos exists to make money, they know what makes money so if you keep seeing different kinds of things on offer, it's probably because people buy it. Be that a regular old nix ox, a personal favorite of mine, or an exploding into existence with purple whatevers cat that radiates cosmic glow. Both things have a place here, you are not playing the game correct and others incorrect.