Tanks need AOE Taunt

grumlins · March 13

Tanks need AOE Taunt skills or DPS passives need to redirect threat to tanks somehow.
This is an extremely old problem in the mmorpg world and each game developer out there has had to add an AOE threat skill and a method of DPS passing their threat onto the designated Tank, Likewise, healer threat still seems to be a problem on the game anytime an ally is healed they pull aggro but they are essential to the task of surviving.
I would suggest adding threat transfer to passives in the DPS skill lines, and in the Healer skill lines, and I would suggest making the skills that cause threat under sword and shield and dauntless skill lines to become AOE threat generators with the initial cast by simply adding a splash damage option to both of the morphs. They don't need to do damage but they do need to do threat.
When you have dungeons and raids with specific boss events then you need mechanics that allow players to handle it otherwise it's just plain chaos.

spartaxoxo · March 13

We had some niche ways to aoe taunt and they killed them because they don't want it in this game. I agree that's pretty lame but it's a pretty deliberate design decision on their part.

Frayton · March 13

Prioritize the main threats, and it's fine. The non-priority adds can be collected once those major ones are held by a tank. It only becomes a problem if group damage is so low that priority and non-priority adds pile up then overwhelm the group. In that case, no amount of AoE taunt is saving that run.

I'd rather see more skills that pull trash mobs together for a neat little burn stack.

Also, what's the aggro order? The top DPS or a healer always seems to get nuked if a tank dies.

master_vanargand · March 13

I think it would be great if AoE pull skills also had a taunt (like the single pull skills).
Since everyone can use them through Scribing, no one would complain if it were made more convenient.

Dagoth_Rac · March 13

Normal, vet, vet hard mode, old content, new content. None of it requires an AoE taunt. The lack of an AoE taunt is a design decision and built into the encounters and mechanics. Knowing what to taunt and when, and what not to taunt and when, is a key part of tanking in ESO.

Necrotech_Master · March 14

most trash isnt really an issue, for most trials theres maybe 1 big boss and another big add, the little trash can just be chained in once the big threats are under control

Gabriel_H · March 14

Knowing what to taunt is part of being a tank. Priority targets are elites, smaller mobs can be cc'd if nearby, and pulled if further away. There is also the Vatershan Hollow weapons for trash pulls.

benzenexz · March 14

Further more in solidifying the key point of who to taunt and who not., I'd also like to urge the removal of taunt on Beckoning Armor and Swarm Mother, the passive taunt from those messes things up easily and violate the concept of active action causing taunt. Also for the simplicity and clarity of taunting behavior, please stop with the old new "soft taunt" (taunt when target is not taunted), make each of those skills either always apply a taunt or not. The over-taunt problem has been patched patches ago thus no reason to keep the taunt conditional.

Soarora · March 14

benzenexz wrote: »

Further more in solidifying the key point of who to taunt and who not., I'd also like to urge the removal of taunt on Beckoning Armor and Swarm Mother, the passive taunt from those messes things up easily and violate the concept of active action causing taunt. Also for the simplicity and clarity of taunting behavior, please stop with the old new "soft taunt" (taunt when target is not taunted), make each of those skills either always apply a taunt or not. The over-taunt problem has been patched patches ago thus no reason to keep the taunt conditional.

I like the new soft taunt for hectic trials where I'm off tank and don't know what the other tank is taking bc they didn't tell me. I just use my chain to taunt everything so I don't take what they've already taunted.

benzenexz · March 14

Soarora wrote: »

I like the new soft taunt for hectic trials where I'm off tank and don't know what the other tank is taking bc they didn't tell me. I just use my chain to taunt everything so I don't take what they've already taunted.

As a matter of fact I'm addressing the soft taunt particularly in regard of the chains, the chain cannot be actively used when there's a tank swap in play, as you need your target to haven run off the 15s taunt timer from the other tank to apply your own taunt. For the same reason, many tanks relying on pull taunts often lose aggro on their target, more so easier when one has to hold multiple of them. This imo is more devastating than occasionally you taunting the other big mobs in a non-boss encounters.
Imagine that you have to apply the chain at the exact moment it run off on a 15s timer for multiple guys and probably that you just got an HA and need to self heal on that GCD, then on the next moment you have to tab through all the mobs to be able to aim your chain across a wall of mobs to drag that one that is running away for others, while the exact same thing happens on another big guy right after... it's chaos

Soarora · March 14

benzenexz wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I like the new soft taunt for hectic trials where I'm off tank and don't know what the other tank is taking bc they didn't tell me. I just use my chain to taunt everything so I don't take what they've already taunted.

As a matter of fact I'm addressing the soft taunt particularly in regard of the chains, the chain cannot be actively used when there's a tank swap in play, as you need your target to haven run off the 15s taunt timer from the other tank to apply your own taunt. For the same reason, many tanks relying on pull taunts often lose aggro on their target, more so easier when one has to hold multiple of them. This imo is more devastating than occasionally you taunting the other big mobs in a non-boss encounters.
Imagine that you have to apply the chain at the exact moment it run off on a 15s timer for multiple guys and probably that you just got an HA and need to self heal on that GCD, then on the next moment you have to tab through all the mobs to be able to aim your chain across a wall of mobs to drag that one that is running away for others, while the exact same thing happens on another big guy right after... it's chaos

That's why you use a range taunt for tank swaps instead of a chain. Chains are for chaining. The taunt is just a bonus. Otherwise, the only reason to use a range taunt would be for the little extra range.

Narvuntien · March 14

Tank takes the big hitter, Dps mows down the trash, Healer stops the dps from dying to trash.

We have a lot of experience dealing with this now. What is the issue you are struggling with as a tank that you need an AoE taunt?

UntilValhalla13 · March 14

This ain't everquest. You can't pull aggro off of a tank that has it taunted unless you use a taunt yourself. There's no aggro meter that varies based off of healing or damage. The tank either has a mob taunted or they don't. Main tank keeps aggro of big bad and lesser big bads (elite adds). Off tank keeps aggro of secondary bosses or minis and elite adds. You chain the trash in or line of sight, depending on ads and their mechanics.

Major_Mangle · March 14

Nah it doesn't,
in games like LOTRO or WoW where the combat is significantly different with a different GCD system and longer cooldowns on taunts, it makes sense to have an AoE taunt. In ESO where the combat system is a lot different and doesn't have taunt skills on 20+ second cooldown, it doesn't make sense to have AoE taunts. Would trivialise tanking more than needed. As a tank in ESO you take care of the biggest threat and pick a priority order on what adds to taunt first.

AcadianPaladin · March 14

The lack of an AoE taunt is to help keep the population of players who want to play tanks down to a manageable level. It certainly helped my decision to retire my tank. We all know there are just too many tanks out there.

Gabriel_H · March 14

benzenexz wrote: »

Further more in solidifying the key point of who to taunt and who not., I'd also like to urge the removal of taunt on Beckoning Armor and Swarm Mother, the passive taunt from those messes things up easily and violate the concept of active action causing taunt. Also for the simplicity and clarity of taunting behavior, please stop with the old new "soft taunt" (taunt when target is not taunted), make each of those skills either always apply a taunt or not. The over-taunt problem has been patched patches ago thus no reason to keep the taunt conditional.

Absolutely not.

Firstly, over-taunting still exists, and can occur in messy fights. Tanks need to be aware of this.
Secondly, tab-targetting exists for those fights were a taunt swap is needed and allowing application of a hard taunt.
Thirdly, in large pulls there is no clear indicator of what is and isn't taunted. Soft taunt allows a "check" to grab a mob (and usually pull it in) without risking disrupting the stack.
Lastly, some soft taunts come with extra utility. Reducing their usage by making them a hard taunt makes that extra utility worthless.

Renato90085 · March 14

I can't think of any advantages to aoe taunt

Horace-Wimp · March 14

Yes!

WoW had it. Rift has it. ESO should have it.

HatchetHaro · March 14

All the encounters in this game are designed around tanks only having single-target taunts. Target prioritization is part of the intended skill expression from tanks. AoE taunts will fully bypass that intended challenge, making every pull trivial.

twisttop138 · March 14

Use aoe scribed chain skill for small trash. There is no threat in this game though for healers or dps to get, like in other MMOs.

Here's what I do though. In a trial, I'm worrying about the guys with the flags. The game tells you who you should be taunting, the guys with the gigantic flags. If the dps can't kill the rest in cleave, I'll chain them in if I can but on PS5 there's no tab target and it can be difficult if I'm crowded around.

twisttop138 · March 14

Gabriel_H wrote: »

benzenexz wrote: »

Further more in solidifying the key point of who to taunt and who not., I'd also like to urge the removal of taunt on Beckoning Armor and Swarm Mother, the passive taunt from those messes things up easily and violate the concept of active action causing taunt. Also for the simplicity and clarity of taunting behavior, please stop with the old new "soft taunt" (taunt when target is not taunted), make each of those skills either always apply a taunt or not. The over-taunt problem has been patched patches ago thus no reason to keep the taunt conditional.

Absolutely not.

Firstly, over-taunting still exists, and can occur in messy fights. Tanks need to be aware of this.
Secondly, tab-targetting exists for those fights were a taunt swap is needed and allowing application of a hard taunt.
Thirdly, in large pulls there is no clear indicator of what is and isn't taunted. Soft taunt allows a "check" to grab a mob (and usually pull it in) without risking disrupting the stack.
Lastly, some soft taunts come with extra utility. Reducing their usage by making them a hard taunt makes that extra utility worthless.

While I don't need an aoe taunt myself, I feel I have to keep telling people. Console, 2/3 of the platforms that play this game, do not have tab targeting. I mean I could be wrong and am just not doing it right. Maybe someone can let me know.

Soarora · March 14

twisttop138 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

benzenexz wrote: »

Further more in solidifying the key point of who to taunt and who not., I'd also like to urge the removal of taunt on Beckoning Armor and Swarm Mother, the passive taunt from those messes things up easily and violate the concept of active action causing taunt. Also for the simplicity and clarity of taunting behavior, please stop with the old new "soft taunt" (taunt when target is not taunted), make each of those skills either always apply a taunt or not. The over-taunt problem has been patched patches ago thus no reason to keep the taunt conditional.

Absolutely not.

Firstly, over-taunting still exists, and can occur in messy fights. Tanks need to be aware of this.
Secondly, tab-targetting exists for those fights were a taunt swap is needed and allowing application of a hard taunt.
Thirdly, in large pulls there is no clear indicator of what is and isn't taunted. Soft taunt allows a "check" to grab a mob (and usually pull it in) without risking disrupting the stack.
Lastly, some soft taunts come with extra utility. Reducing their usage by making them a hard taunt makes that extra utility worthless.

While I don't need an aoe taunt myself, I feel I have to keep telling people. Console, 2/3 of the platforms that play this game, do not have tab targeting. I mean I could be wrong and am just not doing it right. Maybe someone can let me know.

Press down right stick. I was informed it’s worse than pc though because you can’t cycle targets.
Tab targeting is nice, but you can also jump to help with chaining.

I think the tormentor set was the perfect implementation of AoE taunt. You could do it but it cost a 5pc and you needed to slot a 2H with stampede if you’re not a werewolf, plar, or nightblade.

spartaxoxo · March 14

Soarora wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

benzenexz wrote: »

Further more in solidifying the key point of who to taunt and who not., I'd also like to urge the removal of taunt on Beckoning Armor and Swarm Mother, the passive taunt from those messes things up easily and violate the concept of active action causing taunt. Also for the simplicity and clarity of taunting behavior, please stop with the old new "soft taunt" (taunt when target is not taunted), make each of those skills either always apply a taunt or not. The over-taunt problem has been patched patches ago thus no reason to keep the taunt conditional.

Absolutely not.

Firstly, over-taunting still exists, and can occur in messy fights. Tanks need to be aware of this.
Secondly, tab-targetting exists for those fights were a taunt swap is needed and allowing application of a hard taunt.
Thirdly, in large pulls there is no clear indicator of what is and isn't taunted. Soft taunt allows a "check" to grab a mob (and usually pull it in) without risking disrupting the stack.
Lastly, some soft taunts come with extra utility. Reducing their usage by making them a hard taunt makes that extra utility worthless.

While I don't need an aoe taunt myself, I feel I have to keep telling people. Console, 2/3 of the platforms that play this game, do not have tab targeting. I mean I could be wrong and am just not doing it right. Maybe someone can let me know.

Press down right stick. I was informed it’s worse than pc though because you can’t cycle targets.
Tab targeting is nice, but you can also jump to help with chaining.

I think the tormentor set was the perfect implementation of AoE taunt. You could do it but it cost a 5pc and you needed to slot a 2H with stampede if you’re not a werewolf, plar, or nightblade.

Yeah. They made it have a decent trade off so it didn't trivialize things. But for stuff where it would come in handy or for people who just enjoy the tank fantasy of taking all the damage, it was an option. Shame they removed it.

SirBanana1992 · March 14

As an avid tank personally I don't need it. I wouldn't be completely against the inclusion of a form of one or making it a specific class' specialty to make it stand out but as far as most content goes I've been totally fine without one.

Orbital78 · March 15

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

Yes!

WoW had it. Rift has it. ESO should have it.

Ah Rift. That was a long time ago. Tanking seemed like just switching armor.

I enjoyed tormentor tanking, but the fact they fun policed that hints that they don't want tanking to be fun for normies.

Gabriel_H · March 15

Orbital78 wrote: »

I enjoyed tormentor tanking, but the fact they fun policed that hints that they don't want tanking to be fun for normies.

What's fun about pressing one key? Which is what an AoE taunt would be.

thesarahandcompany · March 15

No.

Orbital78 · March 15

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

I enjoyed tormentor tanking, but the fact they fun policed that hints that they don't want tanking to be fun for normies.

What's fun about pressing one key? Which is what an AoE taunt would be.

If you say so. That is what ppl say about heavy attack and beam builds too. Personally I don't care, since vet DPS queues are not too bad usually. If they are ill just DPS heal.

Gabriel_H · March 15

Orbital78 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

I enjoyed tormentor tanking, but the fact they fun policed that hints that they don't want tanking to be fun for normies.

What's fun about pressing one key? Which is what an AoE taunt would be.

If you say so. That is what ppl say about heavy attack and beam builds too. Personally I don't care, since vet DPS queues are not too bad usually. If they are ill just DPS heal.

Those builds still require thought, positioning, skill firing in the optimal order. So, I'll ask again: What is fun about pressing a single key to AoE taunt?

Orbital78 · March 15

I never found tanking in eso to be fun to begin with. Even with a aoe taunt, you would just have more time to rotate all your other buffs, debuffs and heals. You might not enjoy it but play how you want doesn't mean only how one person likes.

Again a moot point as zos had proven their direction on aoe taunts.

ADarklore · March 15

ZOS has outright said in the past, they have no plans to add an AoE taunt.