Guild Spamming Issue

Casul · March 9

I got another auto invite in Stonefalls so they are definitely moving around as well.

Arunei · March 9

Casul wrote: »

I got another auto invite in Stonefalls so they are definitely moving around as well.

If it's the same Guild, then them moving to places they weren't currently spamming at in hopes of avoiding detection (under the assumption that people they've spammed in the past wouldn't likely wind up in the same place they moved to to notice it still happening), that sounds like a blatant attempt to get around something that is very clearly an issue. And last I knew attempting to dodge warnings or bans is a big no-no.

hiyde · March 9

Arunei wrote: »

Casul wrote: »

I got another auto invite in Stonefalls so they are definitely moving around as well.

If it's the same Guild, then them moving to places they weren't currently spamming at in hopes of avoiding detection (under the assumption that people they've spammed in the past wouldn't likely wind up in the same place they moved to to notice it still happening), that sounds like a blatant attempt to get around something that is very clearly an issue. And last I knew attempting to dodge warnings or bans is a big no-no.

At this point, I would think the guild mgmt has been contacted as promised and since they've resumed the blind invites, it would seem the addon has been approved for continued use under whatever conditions were given.

Which is why I hope to see an addon dev put a public version of a similar app so everyone has access to do if it's allowed/encouraged by the powers that be. Why should this be limited to just one guild?

Casul · March 9

Arunei wrote: »

Casul wrote: »

I got another auto invite in Stonefalls so they are definitely moving around as well.

If it's the same Guild, then them moving to places they weren't currently spamming at in hopes of avoiding detection (under the assumption that people they've spammed in the past wouldn't likely wind up in the same place they moved to to notice it still happening), that sounds like a blatant attempt to get around something that is very clearly an issue. And last I knew attempting to dodge warnings or bans is a big no-no.

Yeah it was the same guild. IV to be precise, and didn’t even get me any closer to my bingo >:(

Kiyakotari · March 9

hiyde wrote: »

Which is why I hope to see an addon dev put a public version of a similar app so everyone has access to do if it's allowed/encouraged by the powers that be. Why should this be limited to just one guild?

If that does happen, I have a copy of the addon in question from years ago.

LennaTheRussian · March 9

These people really never learn their lesson

PeacefulAnarchy · March 9

LennaTheRussian wrote: »

These people really never learn their lesson

People learn the lessons they are taught, not the ones people wish they were taught. Throughout this entire process ZOS has been overly accommodating, clearly unwilling to take action. A lot of the complaints, and ZOS final action, revolved around addons and automation, the method of spamming, sidestepping the actual issue that.is affecting the community, the resulting apam. Even now people above are talking about the addon as if that were the important part. In this context the lesson is, keep spamming just do it differently.

@ZOS_Kevin I do not care if they are fully automating their spam, using an addon that requires human input or manually targetting people for invites. Blind inviting random people is spam. They are harassing people, prompting action and a response with no prior interaction. This in itself is inappropriate. This is not inviting someone who asked for an invite, this is not whispering someone you were grouped with asking if they want to join your guild, this is targetting random people with a popup that must be interacted with. Please deem this action itself, regardless of method, inappropriate.

DeathandDebauchery · March 9

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

Blind inviting random people is spam. They are harassing people, prompting action and a response with no prior interaction. This in itself is inappropriate. This is not inviting someone who asked for an invite, this is not whispering someone you were grouped with asking if they want to join your guild, this is targetting random people with a popup that must be interacted with. Please deem this action itself, regardless of method, inappropriate.

Captured very articulately and succintly. Thank you.

SilverBride · March 11

I was very hopeful that action was going to be taken but it doesn't seem to be bringing any positive results. I think too much focus is being given on automated invites rather than just sending unwanted invites at all. Unwanted messaging is a clear violation and needs to be stopped. And it is clearly causing distress to other users and disrupting their experience.

Please make this stop.

2.3 You may not harass, threaten, intentionally humiliate, “stream snipe”, “name and shame”, engage in acts of “griefing”, or cause distress to another user, guest, or ZeniMax staff member/teams using ZeniMax sites and Services. This includes but is not limited to verbal attacks (both text and voice chat), unwanted messaging, personal attacks, stalking or any other undesired behavior used to cause discomfort or disrupt another user’s experience.

valenwood_vegan · March 11

Agree, other issues (like automation) aside for a moment, this guild simply should not be repeatedly inviting players who have already turned down an invitation.

And they should not *ever* be inviting a player who has requested that the invitations stop.

This is clear cut, plain as day, harassment. And we have no defense against it because there are no built-in tools to block guild invites (and no, I don't accept that I should have to use an addon to stop someone else's misbehavior).

Tandor · March 12

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Agree, other issues (like automation) aside for a moment, this guild simply should not be repeatedly inviting players who have already turned down an invitation.

And they should not *ever* be inviting a player who has requested that the invitations stop.

This is clear cut, plain as day, harassment. And we have no defense against it because there are no built-in tools to block guild invites (and no, I don't accept that I should have to use an addon to stop someone else's misbehavior).

This sums it up very well for me.

@ZOS_Kevin What update can you provide on this please? Clearly the focus on automated invitations has achieved nothing.

AlienatedGoat · March 13

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Agree, other issues (like automation) aside for a moment, this guild simply should not be repeatedly inviting players who have already turned down an invitation.

And they should not *ever* be inviting a player who has requested that the invitations stop.

This is clear cut, plain as day, harassment. And we have no defense against it because there are no built-in tools to block guild invites (and no, I don't accept that I should have to use an addon to stop someone else's misbehavior).

Agreed. I draw no distinction between these spam invites and something akin to someone spamming whispers. Both are incredibly disruptive and constitute harassment, but there is a difference in how they are mitigated (or the lack thereof): I can block someone spamming me whispers and it stops. And if they try to circumvent that block with another account, it's a bannable offense that can see all their accounts banned. But for these spam invite harassers, they circumvent the block with impunity as their accounts are all throwaways. As it stands now, there is no way to effectively stop spam invites. We need an option here to block the invites altogether - a toggle in the settings to block guild invites, like blocking duel invites, is both an effective and elegant solution.

Emeratis · March 13

A guildie of mine just reported to me that she had been getting spam invites today when she went to Riften to do the subclassing quest. She just returned to the game after a several year hiatus due to the recent changes. She found the experience unsettling. This behavior is unwanted and disruptive, automated or not. Many of us think this behavior is beyond inappropriate and want it to end. Several people I know have returned to the game recently and I will be very angry if they are hounded by unsolicited invites. Players deserve to game in peace.

Frayton · March 14

Just when I thought it was safe to use certain wayshrines...

Frayton · March 14

Emeratis wrote: »

A guildie of mine just reported to me that she had been getting spam invites today when she went to Riften to do the subclassing quest. She just returned to the game after a several year hiatus due to the recent changes. She found the experience unsettling. This behavior is unwanted and disruptive, automated or not. Many of us think this behavior is beyond inappropriate and want it to end. Several people I know have returned to the game recently and I will be very angry if they are hounded by unsolicited invites. Players deserve to game in peace.

If their spam has expanded beyond the starter zones, then this issue just got worse. Unbelievable.

Arunei · March 14

The initial outcome for this should have never focused on automated invites and just revolved around unwanted mass invite spam in general, regardless of the method. Spam is spam whether it's sent manually or with the help of an addon, harassment is harassment regardless of whether someone is clicking one key or a couple. It's unwanted and annoying no matter if it takes someone one second to do it or five.

Frayton · March 14

hiyde wrote: »

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

Hi @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno Team,

Completely unsurprisingly - the spamming still continues. It seems whatever conversations were happening with Customer Service has not stuck. They have simply tried to move to more hidden locations to send their invites. This person had not moved in 20+ minutes, sits with their camera there, and just invited over and over again. Can some action be taken at this point?

Ticket #260308-004307

Saw this coming from 100 miles away and it was clear from the official response this is where we were heading.

The response said a lot while clarifying nothing other than "automated" isn't allowed.

No clarification if that just means full automation or if someone having their 3 year old press "v" for 6 hours was also not allowed.

No clarification on exactly what we should report. The first unwanted invite? The 2nd? The 2nd but only if we say "stop" first? Or are we only being encouraged to report "automated" invites, which haven't been defined despite requests to do so.

This should not be a difficult topic to provide clarity on, yet here we are.

At this point, it's clear that addons of this type are allowed and it's high time we got a public one so that everyone that wants to can join the bush party.

Yup, you nailed it. Agree with your last point. If this is allowed, let's all get an irritating guild invite addon and spawn camp snipe anyone who dares to use a busy wayshrine or travel through a busy spot. But why stop there? We need to think bigger! Let's join trial and dungeon runs we find in the group finder and invite the whole group. Tales of Tribute matches too. Also, anyone who speaks in any chat channels.

That'll teach those players who think they can just willy-nilly go anywhere they want without paying the guild invite popup toll.

arena25 · March 15

World of Warcraft: Has a toggle that allows me to auto-decline any and all guild invites.
SWTOR: Has a toggle that allows me to auto-decline any and all guild invites.
RIFT: Has/had a toggle that allows me to auto-decline any and all guild invites.
TERA: Had a toggle that allowed me to auto-decline any and all guild invites.
Wildstar: Do I have to keep spelling it out? (also, RIP Celestine Firestar)

ESO is, as near as this one can tell, the only MMO without such a toggle built in to the game itself. And even if ZOS takes action against this guild, there is nothing to prevent another guild/group of guilds, at some point in the future, from doing the same thing y'all are describing in this thread. Heck, some of y'all are already talking of doing such a thing.

No, the only thing that will 100% stop this dead in its tracks is to join every other MMO out there and make a toggle that auto-declines all guild invites. And until they do, actioning this guild will be like using a band-aid to stop bleeding where a tourniquet is required. It's not like the bones for such toggle isn't already there (auto-decline ToT/duel requests already exists), so this should be easy enough for the team working on pain points to make ready by Update 50, Season 1, whatever the next patch is.

ZOS, stop kermit-flailing and make it happen already.

Pevey · March 17

I just really can't understand why after 10+ years ZOS has not figured out a way to address this yet. Spam is spam, no means no, and this is not difficult.