How the new Brazilian policy on loot boxes affects ESO

FabresFour · March 13

In Brazil, a new law now restricts paid loot boxes because they are considered a form of gambling. From what I’ve seen, this seems to prevent players here from purchasing Crown Crates in ESO.

My question is about the Crown Crate bundles that come with additional items. Many times I bought the 8k Crown bundle mainly for the extra items included in the package, not for the crates themselves.

With the new restriction in place, will there be any alternative way for Brazilian players to obtain the bonus items that normally come with those Crown Crate bundles, without having to purchase the crates themselves?

Arunei · March 13

Probably those things will wind up in the Bazaar at some point. Afaik it's not just Brazil but a few other places that have banned loot boxes? But things literally being region locked would make the most sense to put into the Bazaar so people who cannot get them any other way eventually have a way of earning them.

Ratzkifal · March 13

Judging from the way it's handled for Belgium (as far as I'm aware, I'm not Belgian, so take this with a massive grain of salt) you will be unable to buy crowncrates, likely including these bundles. You will however still be able to receive them as gifts from others, if I'm not mistaken.

Eliahnus · March 13

Indeed, I’m from Belgium, since a couple of years I cannot buy crown crates nor the bundles anymore, unfortunately.
Gambling is forbidden for minors, but not for adults, but ZOS choose the easy and lazy way to implement.

licenturion · March 13

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Judging from the way it's handled for Belgium (as far as I'm aware, I'm not Belgian, so take this with a massive grain of salt) you will be unable to buy crowncrates, likely including these bundles. You will however still be able to receive them as gifts from others, if I'm not mistaken.

I am from Belgium so I will list the experience here:
- You can't buy crates in the game, they are not visible. You also can't buy bundles that contain crates.
- You get crates if they are part of an endeavor, special pre-order or deluxe packs and deals that contain crates
- You can get Twitch crates
- You can convert all the stuff you are able to get to gems
- You can buy all the stuff in the crates with gems in the game like everywhere else

This summer PEGI ratings are also being adjusted across all Europe. All games that have lootbox mechanics will be PEGI 16 at minimum.

It think it is great this stuff is being looked at worldwide and there will come a day were a lot of this crap is effectively banned in the big markets.

twisttop138 · March 13

Arunei wrote: »

Probably those things will wind up in the Bazaar at some point. Afaik it's not just Brazil but a few other places that have banned loot boxes? But things literally being region locked would make the most sense to put into the Bazaar so people who cannot get them any other way eventually have a way of earning them.

Genuine question here because I haven't read everything. Did they say that there will be past paid for in the cash shop items in the bazzar? What I saw was them talking about past items that came around and went away, like the dragons trove specifically. If it's the case that crown store items will be added, that's a nice gesture.

Maitsukas · March 13

twisttop138 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Probably those things will wind up in the Bazaar at some point. Afaik it's not just Brazil but a few other places that have banned loot boxes? But things literally being region locked would make the most sense to put into the Bazaar so people who cannot get them any other way eventually have a way of earning them.

Genuine question here because I haven't read everything. Did they say that there will be past paid for in the cash shop items in the bazzar? What I saw was them talking about past items that came around and went away, like the dragons trove specifically. If it's the case that crown store items will be added, that's a nice gesture.

That applies to limited time items from various events, promotions, daily rewards, etc. Crown Crate items are available with either Seals or Crown Gems and I doubt those would be moved to the Bazaar.

MorallyBipolar · March 13

The entire world should ban loot boxes. Games should include rewards in game first and foremost, not put them in pay for with real money loot boxes. If the rng for decent drops were better it would be one thing, but it's just a money pit for those with money to throw away as it is now.

twisttop138 · March 13

Maitsukas wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Probably those things will wind up in the Bazaar at some point. Afaik it's not just Brazil but a few other places that have banned loot boxes? But things literally being region locked would make the most sense to put into the Bazaar so people who cannot get them any other way eventually have a way of earning them.

Genuine question here because I haven't read everything. Did they say that there will be past paid for in the cash shop items in the bazzar? What I saw was them talking about past items that came around and went away, like the dragons trove specifically. If it's the case that crown store items will be added, that's a nice gesture.

That applies to limited time items from various events, promotions, daily rewards, etc. Crown Crate items are available with either Seals or Crown Gems and I doubt those would be moved to the Bazaar.

As I thought. There seems to be this notion among people,not just the poster I quoted, that the gold coast bazzar is some anti fomo crusade and that zos won't use it again. That would be very nice, but not likely. It's a proven revenue driver, so of course they will. I was hoping I was wrong though. Thank you.

wolfie1.0. · March 13

FabresFour wrote: »

In Brazil, a new law now restricts paid loot boxes because they are considered a form of gambling. From what I’ve seen, this seems to prevent players here from purchasing Crown Crates in ESO.

My question is about the Crown Crate bundles that come with additional items. Many times I bought the 8k Crown bundle mainly for the extra items included in the package, not for the crates themselves.

With the new restriction in place, will there be any alternative way for Brazilian players to obtain the bonus items that normally come with those Crown Crate bundles, without having to purchase the crates themselves?

Have they also banned TCG booster packs? The way people go after things like pokemon cards I would argue that those are way more toxic.

Aislinna · March 13

Eliahnus wrote: »

Indeed, I’m from Belgium, since a couple of years I cannot buy crown crates nor the bundles anymore, unfortunately.
Gambling is forbidden for minors, but not for adults, but ZOS choose the easy and lazy way to implement.

How does Belgium determine if you are a minor or an adult logging onto a website? Or what is acceptable for ZOS to determine that according to Belgian law?

moderatelyfatman · March 14

Eliahnus wrote: »

Indeed, I’m from Belgium, since a couple of years I cannot buy crown crates nor the bundles anymore, unfortunately.
Gambling is forbidden for minors, but not for adults, but ZOS choose the easy and lazy way to implement.

I heard that ZOS still allows people in Belgium to be gifted these same things?

licenturion · March 14

Aislinna wrote: »

Eliahnus wrote: »

Indeed, I’m from Belgium, since a couple of years I cannot buy crown crates nor the bundles anymore, unfortunately.
Gambling is forbidden for minors, but not for adults, but ZOS choose the easy and lazy way to implement.

How does Belgium determine if you are a minor or an adult logging onto a website? Or what is acceptable for ZOS to determine that according to Belgian law?

For ESO and other games they check the country you have in your profile (and you can’t change yourself).

You cannot buy lootbox items in Belgian versions of the ESO store, Steam, Playstation, etc.

You also can’t pay for things with a payment method (card, paypal, etc) that is linked to a Belgian card or bank or it will throw an error. And you can’t easily get an international card or bank account that doesn’t link back to your home country. The system is pretty robust. If you really try hard you probably could circumvent it, but you have to be a real gambling addict to go that far.

L_Nici · March 14

Won't change much. Belgium has a law like that since ages, you just can't buy crates anymore. The rest of the world won't experience any change, so it doesn't affect ESO at all, just you in Brazil.

CaptainVenom · March 14

Fellow Brazilian here. My guess is: it won't a change much because ESO is a M (Mature 17+) game. Lootbox changes are for below M rated games.

Ahkanji · March 14

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Judging from the way it's handled for Belgium (as far as I'm aware, I'm not Belgian, so take this with a massive grain of salt) you will be unable to buy crowncrates, likely including these bundles. You will however still be able to receive them as gifts from others, if I'm not mistaken.

Yes, as a Belgian you can indeed still get them as a gift; I recently got one through a guild raffle.

jm42 · March 14

Eliahnus wrote: »

Indeed, I’m from Belgium, since a couple of years I cannot buy crown crates nor the bundles anymore, unfortunately.
Gambling is forbidden for minors, but not for adults, but ZOS choose the easy and lazy way to implement.

if ZOS introduse confirming age by documents or any other form, you will be here bashing them even more

Danikat · March 14

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Fellow Brazilian here. My guess is: it won't a change much because ESO is a M (Mature 17+) game. Lootbox changes are for below M rated games.

I wouldn't count on that. It's rated 18+ by PEGI in Europe, and the Belgian law only restricts loot boxes for under 18s, but they still blocked it rather than rely on the age rating or implement any kind of age verification.

Arunei · March 14

Maitsukas wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Probably those things will wind up in the Bazaar at some point. Afaik it's not just Brazil but a few other places that have banned loot boxes? But things literally being region locked would make the most sense to put into the Bazaar so people who cannot get them any other way eventually have a way of earning them.

Genuine question here because I haven't read everything. Did they say that there will be past paid for in the cash shop items in the bazzar? What I saw was them talking about past items that came around and went away, like the dragons trove specifically. If it's the case that crown store items will be added, that's a nice gesture.

That applies to limited time items from various events, promotions, daily rewards, etc. Crown Crate items are available with either Seals or Crown Gems and I doubt those would be moved to the Bazaar.

I wasn't talking about Crown items being put in the Bazaar. I quite literally said "those things" in regards to the items that come with the bigger Crate bundles. Which will not be able to be purchased for Seals or Crown Gems, as those items are ONLY awarded if you buy those Crate bundles. Which people in Brazil and other places (like Belgium) cannot do. That therefore locks them entirely out of getting those extra items.

Besides, the Morthal Jarl Finery was mostly available as a drop in the Nightfall Crates, tho there was also the promotional Doritos thing, but was available on the PTS version of the Bazaar. That says that even things that were in Crates can wind up in the Bazaar, despite being something that could be purchased via Seals or Crown Gems.

twisttop138 wrote: »

Maitsukas wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Probably those things will wind up in the Bazaar at some point. Afaik it's not just Brazil but a few other places that have banned loot boxes? But things literally being region locked would make the most sense to put into the Bazaar so people who cannot get them any other way eventually have a way of earning them.

Genuine question here because I haven't read everything. Did they say that there will be past paid for in the cash shop items in the bazzar? What I saw was them talking about past items that came around and went away, like the dragons trove specifically. If it's the case that crown store items will be added, that's a nice gesture.

That applies to limited time items from various events, promotions, daily rewards, etc. Crown Crate items are available with either Seals or Crown Gems and I doubt those would be moved to the Bazaar.

As I thought. There seems to be this notion among people,not just the poster I quoted, that the gold coast bazzar is some anti fomo crusade and that zos won't use it again. That would be very nice, but not likely. It's a proven revenue driver, so of course they will. I was hoping I was wrong though. Thank you.

...but the whole point of the Bazaar (on top of making all major content updates free) IS to reduce FOMO. Maybe not entirely remove it, but things that were available for a limited time or otherwise tied to things that excluded people (like Prime Gaming rewards) are intended to be made available via the Bazaar. We have no way of knowing WHICH specific items will be added from Season to Season (or how long after release it might take for them to show up), save for the things that will always be available such as Mimic Stones and Outfit Tokens, but since the items tied to the bigger Crate Bundles will be completely unavailable to players in places were Crates are banned, those kinds of items are the ones that make sense to add to the Bazaar.

LunaFlora · March 14

adding to Crown Store items being put into the Bazaar.
ZOS did mention old Crate items going into it, in the January 7 reveal.
just not in Season Zero

https://youtu.be/Bg3gcsstoXk?is=2gEmwKMZ1NypMs2B
at 25-26 minutes

Horace-Wimp · March 14

FabresFour wrote: »

...paid loot boxes because they are considered a form of gambling...

Paid 'loot' boxes ARE gambling. Period.

I was guilty of buying these lottery items in other MMOs years ago. But after a couple hundred dollars spent to get multiples of the same unwanted items I swore never again. And I've EASILY kept my word.

Now, if ZOS wants to keep these LOTTERY items in the game then they should just give them away to players for free or for in-game currency. Otherwise they should simply put whatever the items offered by these lottery boxes in the Store for cash.

I, for one, would LOVE for ALL paid lottery items to be removed from ALL video games everywhere. Especially video games that allow and target children. Games are already designed with lottery aspects as it is. With ESO it helps keep players engaged when they want to 'farm' one boss in one dungeon/ trial ad infinitum until they get that one piece of gear that completes their set. I have no problem with that.

Aislinna · March 14

licenturion wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Eliahnus wrote: »

Indeed, I’m from Belgium, since a couple of years I cannot buy crown crates nor the bundles anymore, unfortunately.
Gambling is forbidden for minors, but not for adults, but ZOS choose the easy and lazy way to implement.

How does Belgium determine if you are a minor or an adult logging onto a website? Or what is acceptable for ZOS to determine that according to Belgian law?

For ESO and other games they check the country you have in your profile (and you can’t change yourself).

You cannot buy lootbox items in Belgian versions of the ESO store, Steam, Playstation, etc.

You also can’t pay for things with a payment method (card, paypal, etc) that is linked to a Belgian card or bank or it will throw an error. And you can’t easily get an international card or bank account that doesn’t link back to your home country. The system is pretty robust. If you really try hard you probably could circumvent it, but you have to be a real gambling addict to go that far.

Thnk you. I understand that ESO has totally cut Belgians off from lootboxes to comply with the Belgian law. I've been briefly following the Discord age verification issues and I am curious what is acceptable under Belgian law to determine a computer user's age. What would ESO (and/or other sites) have to do to allow adult activities to adults. I assume if Belgian law states that certain online activites (lootboxes) can not be offered to minors, but can be offered to adults, it should say how an online company determines the user's age.

Carcamongus · March 15

I heard about this silly law and I assume it's meant to prevent minors from buying loot boxes, not everyone. After all, it'd be highly hypocritical to ban loot boxes for everyone because they're gambling while at the same time embracing those pestilent betting apps. Parents should watch what their spawn are doing online instead of the law getting in the way of adults having licit fun. Granted, if the law is meant just for minors, then blocking all crate purchases would be ZOS's fault. I'm not convinced crown crates are gambling and, while I've been buying less of them lately, losing access would be one less reason to continue to support the game, especially since it'd be unfair.

Scaletho · March 20

The fact is: crown crates are an obvious form of gambling. And ZOS should have an age check system for crown crates purchase LONG AGO.

Considering that Brazil and other countries are not part of (probably) ZOS "core countries" of its games market, I doubt the company cares to introduce a common sense age verification tool in ESO.

So that's it.

Maitsukas · March 20

Scaletho wrote: »

The fact is: crown crates are an obvious form of gambling. And ZOS should have an age check system for crown crates purchase LONG AGO.

Considering that Brazil and other countries are not part of (probably) ZOS "core countries" of its games market, I doubt the company cares to introduce a common sense age verification tool in ESO.

So that's it.

Would the verification data be stored somewhere? If so, then it is possible for there to be data breach risk, as it has been the case for Discord's age verification very recently.

Eliahnus · March 20

Aislinna wrote: »

Eliahnus wrote: »

Indeed, I’m from Belgium, since a couple of years I cannot buy crown crates nor the bundles anymore, unfortunately.
Gambling is forbidden for minors, but not for adults, but ZOS choose the easy and lazy way to implement.

How does Belgium determine if you are a minor or an adult logging onto a website? Or what is acceptable for ZOS to determine that according to Belgian law?

It's not acceptable that ZOS treats us as minors, and it's insulting.
There are plenty of age determining mechanics they could use.

DenverRalphy · March 20

Eliahnus wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Eliahnus wrote: »

Indeed, I’m from Belgium, since a couple of years I cannot buy crown crates nor the bundles anymore, unfortunately.
Gambling is forbidden for minors, but not for adults, but ZOS choose the easy and lazy way to implement.

How does Belgium determine if you are a minor or an adult logging onto a website? Or what is acceptable for ZOS to determine that according to Belgian law?

It's not acceptable that ZOS treats us as minors, and it's insulting.
There are plenty of age determining mechanics they could use.

If I were in ZOS' shoes, I'd likely do the same. Age verification is not reliable enough to risk legal action should Li'l Johnny rack up mommy's credit card bill. Happens all the time. I'm sure ZOS deals with claims like that all the time as it is. Add in stiffer legal liabilities because a country enacted laws holding them accountable for allowing minors to gamble? Of course they'd just walk away. I would.

FlameDark · March 20

It's a bit more complicated then just "add an age verification system".

Implementing a 3rd party age verification system can be expensive and a hassle to implement in a game that before did not have one. It's easier to just ban the crates for that location.

The age verification system must also be satisfactory to the country issuing the ban. If this was a simple "click here if you're 18+" then there wouldn't be a need for the age verification in Brazil, as ESO is already an M rated game in Brazil and that rating could pass as an agreement by the user to being of the correct age by simply playing it. It needs a definitive you ARE of the required age to play, or ESO could risk a penalty for having a poor substitute of a country wide ban.

Depends also on why the ban was put in place. If the country deemed it as gambling, then the game would also have to deal with whatever gambling licence laws it would need to go through in order to sell the crates. Each country is different in that regard.

Proper age verification often requires the submission of personal information and identification. Which means it also now falls into the realm of personal privacy compliance and data protection laws of that country. Another legal maze ESO would also have to navigate along with the gambling laws and ensuring the verification is up to that countries standards.

At best ESO could be banning the crates for now until they can find a legal way to allow Brazilian users to access them and follow all laws by their government. Which will take quite a bit of time to do. At worst, it's simply easier for a company to ban it from a region entirely then to go through everything.

AScarlato · March 20

Maybe if more countries did this, they'd have to release the cosmetics for an actual specific price rather than buy and pray. Or buy and buy until you have enough gems.

Carcamongus · March 20

AScarlato wrote: »

Maybe if more countries did this, they'd have to release the cosmetics for an actual specific price rather than buy and pray. Or buy and buy until you have enough gems.

If more countries did this, the crown crate system would have to be replaced. But I doubt that's going to happen, at least not while ESO exists. So far, that I know of, we got Belgium and Brazil banning, no more than a minor nuisance to the profitmongers.

wolfie1.0. · March 20

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

FabresFour wrote: »

...paid loot boxes because they are considered a form of gambling...

Paid 'loot' boxes ARE gambling. Period.

I was guilty of buying these lottery items in other MMOs years ago. But after a couple hundred dollars spent to get multiples of the same unwanted items I swore never again. And I've EASILY kept my word.

Now, if ZOS wants to keep these LOTTERY items in the game then they should just give them away to players for free or for in-game currency. Otherwise they should simply put whatever the items offered by these lottery boxes in the Store for cash.

I, for one, would LOVE for ALL paid lottery items to be removed from ALL video games everywhere. Especially video games that allow and target children. Games are already designed with lottery aspects as it is. With ESO it helps keep players engaged when they want to 'farm' one boss in one dungeon/ trial ad infinitum until they get that one piece of gear that completes their set. I have no problem with that.

So question. Can you buy Pokémon TCG in Brazil? Cause talk about gambling targeting children....