How are folks feeling about new ESO direction?

Malyore · March 11

I'm curious what people are thinking and feeling about how things have been going so far with ESO this year.

For me, it's a difficult mix of two things. I'm really proud and excited to see so many improvements from the developers. It's the first time in a long time that I'd actually felt excited about the future of ESO. And yet, I still have concerns which make me not want to financially support the game. Recently, there was writing from ZOS which said audiences were "mindless" for worrying about plot-holes and unlikeable characters. It would seem to come from the same writer that lead Tanlorin's writing.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/69359 and https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/66831

In the original context of this writing, it can be interpreted in many ways. First discussed in page 2-4 of this thread:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/688681/edited-to-be-heart-039-s-week-quests-and-writing-concerns/p2

The reason I see it as an issue is because it seems to be commentary on a topic that encompasses a real concern Elder Scrolls fans recently have with ESO writers, followed by the fact that staff have intentionally ignored any requests for clarification... which leaves us all to our own interpretations. To many of us who share these concerns, that becomes interpreted as the writers' intentional bashing towards fans, and that ZOS is hoping it will just be quietly swept away in time. I cannot support this. I currently have no payments or subscriptions going out to ZOS solely because of being ignored about this shared concern. But then I also wonder if I shouldn't allow a few potential bad actors within ZOS to interfere with my enjoyment, while I simultaneously see such improvement in so many other places within the game. I'm truly not sure, and I'm just biding my time while I observe and ascertain the value remaining in ESO.
So, I'm just wanting to hear what other folks perceive about all of the recent changes in ZOS, and how the game has felt for them lately.

SilverBride · March 11

I won't get into all the changes individually but will just say that the quality of life changes are nice but that's about it for me. I don't care even a little bit for the Night Market or the Gold Coast Bazaar or the Tomes.

Destai · March 11

U49 did more to restore my confidence in the game than the last 3 years of updates. I guess we'll see how the Tomes turn out, but I'm confident in the new direction. If nothing else, I'm confident they're engaged with us. All around - the devs, the CMs - I'm happy with the teams and the game's direction.

AzuraFan · March 11

I've seen better communication, more transparency, and a lot of requested QoL changes on the schedule, which is all good.

But I'm concerned that there won't be enough to do to keep me around. It kind of sucks, because the solo dungeons sound great, and some of the upcoming changes do too. I just wish they'd happened earlier, when I still had zones to do in the game and a lot of achievements to complete.

So while I like what I see and the new leadership clearly listens and is willing to innovate and try new stuff, it won't matter if there's nothing for me to do. There's only so much I can do to keep myself busy. I'm hoping there will be a wider variety of tasks in the tomes than there were with the old endeavor tasks, especially with the seasonal challenges. I'm also curious about the sage's vault. Depending on what it is, it could give me stuff to do.

I'm not interested in stuff like the Night Market. I'm hoping special event zones won't always be combat, combat, combat. There are other activities and systems in the game they could build a special event zone around.

Anyway, I'm still keeping an open mind and will see how it plays out for me this year. I see a lot of positive changes, but the bottom line for me will be whether the content they release will be the type of stuff I like to engage with and enough to keep me busy.

coop500 · March 11

I agree that the writing has been very questionable lately. Doing some quests in West Wield, I felt insulted as a player as to how they were handled, how simple they were and how much handholding there was. There's certainly a 'trend' of how stories and characters were handled that defo feels wrong.

Edit: Am I the only one who read the OP's post about how it seems to be addressing writing, not balance, not QOL, not gameplay, but writing?

Freelancer_ESO · March 11

I like the activity level and communication level but, I've got some mixed feelings on the direction.

I really like the increased choice in dialog options but, I think the writing is also feeling a bit more like the real world than Tamriel at times.

I did feel that some of the visuals could definitely use some alterations to feel more impactful but, I think a many of the newer animations are a bit flashier than I'd like and the audio at times doesn't necessarily align well with how I imagined some of the abilities.

I like all of the quality of life stuff but, I don't really love not getting a regular zone this year and instead getting the hard/group zone. I think once the zone hits live we'll see it hit the issue that the zone is not all that hard when a bunch of people are present but, that the zone is more trouble than it's worth for many people when the traffic isn't very high.

I do feel that a fair number of abilities could benefit from tweaking but, I've also gotten attached to how many of my characters play and feel that the DK rework was a bit too heavy handed. I'm kinda curious how many of my characters I'll actually recognize by the time the reworks are over.

BardokRedSnow · March 11

This is the most hopeful I've been for the game in a long time, even went and got eso plus again, mostly for all the additional housing space which was impressive, been wanting that done since forever.

Since the dk changes are so dang good I might even get more into PvE again. The pvp side of things was really good, but for pve the dk changes are amazing. Figures since that's their focus lol but pvp is also harder to balance, they did a great job.

Emeratis · March 11

Short answer-mixed but leaning positive.

I very much do appreciate the feedback and part of why I returned to the forums recently is I feel that my voice could be heard if I put my thoughts out there. I think communication has vastly improved overall and that the new team feels like they care more about the players' feelings than the last one did.

I also appreciate the newfound inside information and insight that was missing from ESO but common in other games. I think ZOS finally realized secrecy doesn't always serve and early teasers/reveals can give a lot of excitement and hype. I also appreciate as an artist and writer hearing more about the creative process and design choices made.

Where I start to get disappointed and frustrated is the gaps in communication still and feeling that some things are getting more priority than others. ESO has always drawn a lot of different gamers with a lot of different motivations for playing, but often struggles at retention or supporting some of those playstyles and ideas. I've vented a lot about how I feel more frustrated/stressed/lack of progress despite my effort over lorebooks and leads than I do trifecta progs. That feels very wrong to me and despite many attempts and people trying, very little to nothing has been said on the matter. There have also been many very cool and interesting cosmetic requests over the past month that have also largely been not commented on. The cosmetics and customization systems in eso are part of what set it apart from competitors and was once a major draw for the game. I have noticed many fashionistas move onto Infinity Nikki or games that support fashion just as much if not more, and that makes me sad because similar to lorebooks/leads, it feels like motifs have become the carrot on a stick to return to zones 6 months to a year later and we have to wait on fashion long past when it would be fashionable and timely for the content we're doing. There are also still many unreleased styles in game that players have wanted for years. The dye system also has several pain points raised lately. It feels very bad in recent years to be a gamer whose motivation is design, discovery/exploration, and completionism/collection.

The other frustration in feedback is the failing to deal with conflicting groups and their points of views. As I mentioned, eso draws gamers with varying, sometimes conflicting, motivations. An example that's going to be controversial but I feel illustrates my point here is subclassing. No matter what you believe, it was rolled out horribly. Many people have been rightfully upset and critical. The problem is, two camps of players were disgruntled with subclassing. One was people who prefer monoclass, who now were way less powerful than whatever min maxed amalgamation was made. The other were people who finally felt they could make classes the game lacked and have their characters fit their roleplaying skillset, which most of those builds were also way weaker than the min maxed amalgamation builds. Monoclass is getting a lot of support and buffs and I'm happy about that for some of my characters, but several of these buffs are coming at the expense of burying some of those rp subclassing builds further. An example I used is the ardent flame changes negatively impact elementalist builds in a way that is frustrating for people who wanted more options for rp classes in game. There are people who care about rp and flavor in endgame, so having rp builds that should be viable be further put behind feels very bad and I hope it is considered as classes get more reworks and monoclass gets in a better spot. Another example I can raise is players that value excitement might like big special effects and flashy cosmetics, while those who feel strongly about immersion frequently complain about the same effects and ask for ways to disable other players' cosmetics or ask zos to stop making cosmetics like them. Neither perspective is wrong, but these players value different things and both deserve to feel satisfied with the state of the game. Hard choices don't necessarily have to be a harsh binary, or siding with one camp over another. There are compromises that can be made that satisfy most players in game.

Writing wise is weird for me. I do not think that eso's writing is necessarily in the worst place it's ever been, but it does not feel like it's at it's best spot either. I personally found Elsweyr-High Isle to be the biggest low point of the game's writing overall. Many of the stories were formulaic and shallow with very predictable story beats, a few good lore dumps, but largely unsatisfying for me. I like that storylines and quests feel more free format wise again, but the other day I lamented about how little things made quests soar better. Quests about morality used to ask you what your character valued, not posit a right or wrong answer, just consequences based actions/decisions. Quests often also had ambient chatter on complete and some quests would reference others in the same zone even if they aren't completely related (ex on Khenarthi's Roost one questgiver references another quest about a fire on another farm and that fear/worry is what drives the questgiver to ask the player character for help).

I will say while it was brief, I found the Night Market and it's worldbuilding to be exciting and amazing. I loved walking around the different factions' camps and learning more about who they were through npcs and lorebooks. The Night Market is mysterious and exciting, but also adds to the existing lore and mysteries of Fargrave and have a lot of fun lore speculations I'd like to discuss with some folks. We'll see how the Thieves Guild and Sheogorath questline go, but I won't pretend I'm not worried about the Sheogorath one. Sheogorath is one of the most flanderized characters in TES and ESO has often missed the mark with him. While I would love to see them do better, I know some people are so turned off by prior quests they don't want to see him in game again if ever. I personally am going to say I at least hope for exploring Sheogorath's darker and more terrifying side and little to no cheese references.

I think they're off to a good start, but I want them to keep going. I've always believed in this game's potential and I hope the new team also sees that potential.

Tandor · March 11

Far too early to pass judgement in my view.

Frayton · March 11

I like the QoL changes. Way overdue.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · March 12

The Pure Class updates are what saved me and most of our vets. We were halfway out the door. Hopefully once we have our characters back again, they wont be wrecking balled or basically taken away again for a year or more... I think the new Class passives will help. That aside, the new DK is very beautiful and FUN to play. Its been awhile since Eso brought a smile to our faces😎 Keep it up.

I think the game is finally headed in the right direction. Until very recently, it wasn't. The communication has been one of the best things but there are a lot of others. The new QoL is so good! The new systems will be a lot of fun, overland difficulty, Night Market, solo dungeons, Gold Coast Bazaar, ect. What a welcome change!

Curious to see the new storylines/ Sheogorath and all. I would have preferred something new that we haven't seen before but there is nothing wrong with any story additions. There are always arguments about those sorts of things sadly. Even though I love serious bosses like Magma Incarnate, Molag Bal, Z'maja, ect, a lot of people in our guilds are INTO cute little bunny rabbits and unicorns. That's fine, they deserve to have that kind of stuff they enjoy and most of us understand and honorably accept that. Same thing, FX - there will always be two sides. I don't mind flashy mounts, skill styles or effects. Some of them are gorgeous like Healing Thicket on my Warden😍 They should still exist. I think more people like them than not. That's a compliment in itself because it was Zos who had the idea to have an adjustment for that. That will please some people. Another welcome change.

If I had to request one thing, I truly hope they will add to the music of the game and expand on this in a big way. Its not something a lot of people talk about but much of it is already so beautiful. There is tremendous potential to do something really big with it.

tsaescishoeshiner · March 12

The storywriting concerns in the threads that OP linked to aren't shared by all players, even ones who like the stories and the lore, and there's no particular reason that the developers should respond to them or "clarify" those specific concerns because some players feel strongly about their quest analysis.

It's also somewhat of an unbacked leap of logic to assume that there's some new storywriting direction. If you're concerned about something, you can start seeing patterns of it everywhere. (And sometimes you're right.)

For me, I know which storylines I like and hope we see more quests like them in the future. I would personally see it as self-defeating to leave if I felt a few quests went against my personal interpretation of the series or lore—because which large series will conform to almost all my expectations?

metheglyn · March 12

So far I'm pleased with the quality of life updates, the increased communication, and the dragonknight refresh. I'll be eager to see how the other classes fare in their refreshes. I find the class mastery concept interesting and look forward to seeing how it plays out. We'll see how well getting story content and quests piecemeal over the year works out; hopefully that content is receiving as much attention and care as the class refreshes are.

There's are some future things I'm interested in, like solo dungeon experiences and the Sages Vault (whatever that might end up being).

Things like Night Market and overland difficulty settings are parts of the game I'll try out, but neither one of them is really anything I'm very interested in.

Emeratis · March 12

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

The storywriting concerns in the threads that OP linked to aren't shared by all players, even ones who like the stories and the lore, and there's no particular reason that the developers should respond to them or "clarify" those specific concerns because some players feel strongly about their quest analysis.

It's also somewhat of an unbacked leap of logic to assume that there's some new storywriting direction. If you're concerned about something, you can start seeing patterns of it everywhere. (And sometimes you're right.)

For me, I know which storylines I like and hope we see more quests like them in the future. I would personally see it as self-defeating to leave if I felt a few quests went against my personal interpretation of the series or lore—because which large series will conform to almost all my expectations?

We do have evidence that the writing team has shifted and when though. Lawrence Schick was the loremaster for most of base game up til Elsweyr. Leamon Tuttle was the loremaster from Elsweyr to High Isle and Michael Zenke has taken over as loremaster from High Isle til now. While loremaster is a unique title to ZOS/ESO/Bethesda, we know that Schick was credited recently as the Principal Narrative Designer of Baulder's Gate 3 so we can assume that is loosely what the job of loremaster entails. So yes, we have tangible proof of this game's writing eras and even without that it's pretty easy to note the overall stylistic writing differences and transition periods for eso (noting that both Elsweyr and High Isle are dual credited for loremasters and show a very obvious passing of the torch and blend of the old and new loremasters' styles). Also, just because these three are the loremaster doesn't mean they write every quest during their era, I just wanted to explain this because it's a good parallel for the overall writing directions for the game and adds some context to this discussion.

As I said in my original post though, I personally feel the writing has gotten better in some ways in the current writing era and worse in others. I appreciate we're getting more loremaster's archives again and that things feel more varied story wise, but I wish moral dilemmas in questing were more "what does your character value" and less "good/bad" or "right/wrong" answers like some earlier eras of eso were and some of the pop culture references and nods and memes would be toned down a bit. I do like that recently we've had a lot of oblivion lore get some love and fleshing out moreso than just "daedric prince of the month" and we are also getting some cool worldbuilding in general. Like I said I personally feel the current writing era is a mixed bag.

Alastrine · March 12

I love the increase to housing and that might keep me busy for awhile. I have multiple accounts but most are not Plus so it would be nice to go back and expand the decor in their small homes and apartments.
I like the increase to the riding skills to 3 per day, and all the other QoL changes that I have so far had reason to experience.

So far as Tomes go, Night Market, Gold Coast Bazaar etc. I have next to no interest. I mean, if I'm playing I'll check them out but I wouldn't specifically log on to do so.

The lack of a daily reward actually has meant that I have LESS inclination to feel prone to log onto all my accounts every day. In fact some I haven't logged into since the daily rewards are gone. The increased Seals of Endeavor with the Golden Pursuits are nice but I weary of the grind too much to try and do it for all my accounts - whereas I often did the weeklies and dailies with them all. Will probably try to grab the first level or two for each of them before the Pursuits are gone.

Haven't played long enough each day to really check out the new DK so no comments on that.

Overall I guess it's been ok. The housing item increase is the only thing that really put a big smile on my face though.

Hotdog_23 · March 12

QOL is nice, but overall, I am playing less now than before the update. Figure that will change with the night market and Tomes, but for now there is nothing extra to do. Since the endeavors are gone.

I've been here since the game came out on console, so without new content to do, there is nothing to do for me. Mainly log doing crafting dailies and survey reports, round of dailies in Solstice for new furnishing plans, change at a drop, then off for the day.

Stay safe

nightbringer1993 · March 12

In terms of QoL, I do agree that I am pleased. On the other hand, in terms of class balance I am extremely disappointed that classes like necromancer are left in the trash despite having the most requests for refresh. Why did they put it last on refresh order(excluding arcanist)?
[snip] and I still say that ZOS is not listening.
[edited for bashing]

ADarklore · March 12

Well, I returned after almost an eight-month absence thanks to Update 49 and all the positive changes. I am definitely enjoying the changes to DK, which was my very first ESO class back in 2015, but shelved it soon after creation because I found the DPS side lacking- and was lacking for many many years. However, now the DPS side has been super-buffed and it has been a LOT of fun to play.

As a Templar main, I'm excited for the class mastery since Templar has been in a low spot for quite some time, although I'm worried about the class rework since Templar has many class-defining abilities that impact how it is played. I just worry that Arcanist, who was already the top pure class when released, is going to get further buffed beyond the other pure classes with their class mastery options and won't see any significant 'nerfs' until the rework in late 2027... which will continue to make them top pure class and required subclass until then. Hopefully during PTS their passives are toned down to bring them back down to alignment with the rest of the pure classes.

I was also super excited for the QoL changes, which were huge; I still think Armories should be made account wide tho.

All in all, I like the direction the game is moving. I like the change in communication, because always being in the dark was bad for the game. I've seen major changes in both the frequency of communication lately, and also the reduction of heavy-handed forum moderation which alienated a lot of players who felt like they couldn't offer their opinion for fear of being reprimanded.

James-Wayne · March 12

I like the direction but I don't like the lack of playable content. I haven't needed to login lately and that's the first for time in over 11 years of playing. I do understand they need time to setup seasonal model so see how content goes over the next few years.

SkaiFaith · March 12

I'm optimistic.
Zos changed, ESO changed and so have I.
Once, I was focused on stories and dialogues in games. Time passed, the industry/world drastically changed, and now I'm not really interested in what I see as "reading opinions" - just let me play and gain rewards of any sort, I don't care.
I'll happily pay Zos and play ESO as long as Tamriel emperors won't ask me to give them my "vestige ID", lol. That would be farewell.
But the new team is already doing good and better.

tye77732145 · March 12

Loving it period, THEY cooked and ate ... Only thing is, molten armament skill style and customizability, and finally the 2H swords feel too-too anime-ish, doesnt feel like actual sword swing as the slices feel too dramatic. The slices being red blends in with DK fire abilities. Its ability is so fast that you cant see the slices lol.

colossalvoids · March 12

Not an active player anymore by any means but was one for years, meaning doing all the game had to offer and sinked an ungodly amount of time doing every small bit and piece for a negligible achievement point, etc.

It looks like the game is heading towards a potential new success despite still being in kinda pseudo maintenance mode for some time already as seen from quality of content and writing, not even talking about piling up bugs and issues that were increasing rapidly over the last five or so years. There's always a chance for a failure but overall it seems they're serious now with actually doing the work and finishing old projects at the same time introducing things people were going about since the game's early days. Despite objective minor flaws it's going smoothly and giving some reassurance. If that's the actual route they'll stick with quite a few folks would probably be keen to return to the game they once loved and get some fresh blood while at it as it's getting less and less shameful to recommend this game as flaws are getting ironed from major imbalances to things like the most predatory crown deals are getting changed and game is now getting more attention rather than being all store with minor crumbs in actual dlc's.

Hopefully they would be able to deliver and not lose their jobs short term because bug fixes and reworks aren't the money maker but an important step for a brighter future for both players and investors in perspective.

Destai · March 12

Thought about this more, and wanted to provide more detailed feedback.

Community engagement. This is where I'm the most optimistic. It's such an easy win for them. It took a long time to get to this point, but it's made a difference. It's humanized the developers and broken the cycle of negativity that previous leadership cultivated. I see some people saying the engagement feels selective, which is noticed, but I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt here. It's probably a workload/capacity issue more than true negligence.
PTS Engagement & Fiasco Prevention. We've gotten a lot more PTS engagement and insight into how it's used. The next step IMO, is exposing development progress to structured feedback earlier than PTS, and acting on that before it's too late. And there is a difference between just showing off ideas, like they did with the class masteries, and having true structured feedback. I'm not terribly optimistic on getting pre-PTS feedback established, but overall PTS engagement is commendable. I'm viewing PTS engagement favorably.
Quality of Life changes. Again, quite optimistic here. U49 was stellar. The last time we had this breadth of QoL updates was back in 2020 with stickerbook, and One Tamriel before that. Obviously, we've had a few updates peppered in, but nothing this far reaching. It's huge. It's a win that's due praise, but it cannot be a substitute for meaty content. I think they understand that, so I don't want to diminish this win for them, but it's worth bearing in mind.
Overall development quality. This is where they have some proving to do. Obviously last year was rough, to say the least. Seeing leadership apologize, with an actual apology, was refreshing. It feels like they get it now, but the release of content like the Night Market, Crimson Veldt, and Sages Vault, will be indicative of how well they learned those lessons. I'm cautiously optimistic here. Especially after barebones zones like Gold Road, I'm really hoping we start seeing more detail in whatever they deliver.
Story writing quality. This is probably where I'm the most negative. I don't think there's been a solid story in 6 or 7 years. There's been strong moments, but I find most of the main quests at least, are underscored by poor pacing or really irritating characters. A lot of the stories have strong elements - High Isle will always be the poster child for this - that don't come together in a satisfying way. Other stories, like Solstice or Necrom/Gold Road, just have really odd core writing. Ultimately, the storywriting quality has predisposed me to click through things going forward. I think the game's writing has always shined on the side quests. Small focused stories is where they deliver the best work.
Combat changes. Alec is a such a strong developer and personality. Having him present has been incredibly reassuring. That's so valuable because this has been such a weak point for many people. Especially after some controversial streams a year or so ago, this goes a long way. The new DK changes, overall, I consider quite positive. Regarding the class reworks - while I was initially skeptical of the timeline, I'm more trusting of the decisions being made now. IMO, there's two big things that need to be reverted or revisited - the jabs animations and NB permaglow issues. They should never, never have been made. This is one of those situations where the devs just need to do what's asked of them, regardless of whatever vision they have. Aside from that, nothing but hopeful anticipation on my end.
Value proposition. ESO+ feels so much more valuable now. The new monetization model has added new benefits to it, and I think that's wonderful. Shifting content to be free also makes me feel like I can be more discretionary about what I'm buying. If the Tomes don't have attractive rewards, I don't have to get them. Optimistic here.
Rewards structures. This is related to the value proposition, but worth it's own call out. This is where I'm actually a little negative, just given the game's monetization. If rewards are mostly concentrated in the Crown Store and Tomes, then I think the game will still suffer population-wise. Whatever new systems come out, they have to be rewarding. They need to have earnable things that are comparable to Apex rewards and other expensive timed-deals. Some progress has been made on this, to be fair, but it's still a concern of mine.

Malyore · March 12

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

The storywriting concerns in the threads that OP linked to aren't shared by all players, even ones who like the stories and the lore, and there's no particular reason that the developers should respond to them or "clarify" those specific concerns because some players feel strongly about their quest analysis.

That is true that these specific concerns about, what appears to be, Tanlorin's writer making retaliatory remarks since their character was unpopular and since the fans had to correct the event writing, are not all shared. If you read through the replies in that other thread, after the link to the interview was posted it becomes apparent that some people saw it as staff trying to insult fans, and others just saw it as artist meta commentary that was shoved into the event. Others still saw it as only trying to make a character seem obnoxious. This is the reason I reached out to ZOS, because the ambiguous nature of the situation left very drastic interpretations. Being met with silence leaves me to conclude that our concerns were correct.

And yes, there's no particular reason for ZOS to respond to those concerns, or any other concerns for that matter. Any player concern can be dismissed as only strong feelings, or categorized as not being shared by everyone.
Yet they have chosen to try to be more communicative and responsive, and so it is disheartening to see that they didn't touch on something that is as bad of a look as an arrogant creator saying their audiences are dumb for not appreciating their ego-stroking upheaval of stories.

I can't speak for the others I know who shared in that concern, but for me personally, all it would have taken is a mod saying "We spoke with the writing team, their intention was ___." Any given statement could even be a blatant lie for all I know, but it at least shows me that ZOS was hoping to amend a sense of respect and communication, and that they would likely be more aware of situations from happening in the future.

To each their own. This thread is about me deciding where I want to put my money– trying to decide where there is value and where there is devalue remaining in ESO after the company shakeup.
I really enjoyed the start of the year, especially the March dev stream. Some folks seemed very passionate about the game and about players being able to have fun. I enjoyed the group's humor, goals, changes, and insights. That is what I want to support. But in doing so along with the possibility that our concerns are correct, it risks proving exactly the point inferred from that interview– that we are just "mindless commoners" that are easy to appease, and that have no value in what we discuss. The implications of proving and supporting that point could contribute further to a decline in writing quality, if they feel they can get away with it. This is why I am in a personal dilemma. The fact that the dilemma persists is because there was no response from anyone within ZOS.

Malyore · March 12

Destai wrote: »

Thought about this more, and wanted to provide more detailed feedback.

Community engagement. This is where I'm the most optimistic. It's such an easy win for them. It took a long time to get to this point, but it's made a difference. It's humanized the developers and broken the cycle of negativity that previous leadership cultivated. I see some people saying the engagement feels selective, which is noticed, but I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt here. It's probably a workload/capacity issue more than true negligence.

PTS Engagement & Fiasco Prevention. We've gotten a lot more PTS engagement and insight into how it's used. The next step IMO, is exposing development progress to structured feedback earlier than PTS, and acting on that before it's too late. And there is a difference between just showing off ideas, like they did with the class masteries, and having true structured feedback. I'm not terribly optimistic on getting pre-PTS feedback established, but overall PTS engagement is commendable. I'm viewing PTS engagement favorably.

Quality of Life changes. Again, quite optimistic here. U49 was stellar. The last time we had this breadth of QoL updates was back in 2020 with stickerbook, and One Tamriel before that. Obviously, we've had a few updates peppered in, but nothing this far reaching. It's huge. It's a win that's due praise, but it cannot be a substitute for meaty content. I think they understand that, so I don't want to diminish this win for them, but it's worth bearing in mind.

Overall development quality. This is where they have some proving to do. Obviously last year was rough, to say the least. Seeing leadership apologize, with an actual apology, was refreshing. It feels like they get it now, but the release of content like the Night Market, Crimson Veldt, and Sages Vault, will be indicative of how well they learned those lessons. I'm cautiously optimistic here. Especially after barebones zones like Gold Road, I'm really hoping we start seeing more detail in whatever they deliver.

Story writing quality. This is probably where I'm the most negative. I don't think there's been a solid story in 6 or 7 years. There's been strong moments, but I find most of the main quests at least, are underscored by poor pacing or really irritating characters. A lot of the stories have strong elements - High Isle will always be the poster child for this - that don't come together in a satisfying way. Other stories, like Solstice or Necrom/Gold Road, just have really odd core writing. Ultimately, the storywriting quality has predisposed me to click through things going forward. I think the game's writing has always shined on the side quests. Small focused stories is where they deliver the best work.

Combat changes. Alec is a such a strong developer and personality. Having him present has been incredibly reassuring. That's so valuable because this has been such a weak point for many people. Especially after some controversial streams a year or so ago, this goes a long way. The new DK changes, overall, I consider quite positive. Regarding the class reworks - while I was initially skeptical of the timeline, I'm more trusting of the decisions being made now. IMO, there's two big things that need to be reverted or revisited - the jabs animations and NB permaglow issues. They should never, never have been made. This is one of those situations where the devs just need to do what's asked of them, regardless of whatever vision they have. Aside from that, nothing but hopeful anticipation on my end.

Value proposition. ESO+ feels so much more valuable now. The new monetization model has added new benefits to it, and I think that's wonderful. Shifting content to be free also makes me feel like I can be more discretionary about what I'm buying. If the Tomes don't have attractive rewards, I don't have to get them. Optimistic here.

Rewards structures. This is related to the value proposition, but worth it's own call out. This is where I'm actually a little negative, just given the game's monetization. If rewards are mostly concentrated in the Crown Store and Tomes, then I think the game will still suffer population-wise. Whatever new systems come out, they have to be rewarding. They need to have earnable things that are comparable to Apex rewards and other expensive timed-deals. Some progress has been made on this, to be fair, but it's still a concern of mine.

I really appreciate this breakdown. I agree with everything on here. Especially about Alec, he was great to see.
It's good to recognize how much systemic improvement has occured in most of ESO, especially in what is basically just a few short months, while also showing what the outliers are. This is exactly what I was hoping to hear from this thread– a full perspective on recent direction, based off of prior direction.

Syldras · March 12

Emeratis wrote: »

As I said in my original post though, I personally feel the writing has gotten better in some ways in the current writing era and worse in others. I appreciate we're getting more loremaster's archives again and that things feel more varied story wise, but I wish moral dilemmas in questing were more "what does your character value" and less "good/bad" or "right/wrong" answers like some earlier eras of eso were and some of the pop culture references and nods and memes would be toned down a bit. I do like that recently we've had a lot of oblivion lore get some love and fleshing out moreso than just "daedric prince of the month" and we are also getting some cool worldbuilding in general. Like I said I personally feel the current writing era is a mixed bag.

Can you give a few examples of recent lore additions that you enjoyed a lot? I mostly see the same negative aspects that you mention; the positive ones - sadly not so much.

For me personally, in terms of writing, I found the past few years more negative than mixed. There are a few quests I did enjoy (Zerith-var's questline was wonderful, and on Solstice I also enjoyed Corelanya Manor a lot), but I also strongly notice this moral writing, and all those quips, and meme-y things, and I don't enjoy that at all. And then, in the Solstice main story, many aspects that were entertaining at least, were basically just repetitions of the base game main quest or other story elements we've seen before, which is also a bit meh.

But I'm genuinely curious what other people liked. Perhaps there's aspects I've focused too little on (or interpreted differently).

AScarlato · March 12

Happy about the quality of life changes.

Unhappy about the lack of story content and features compared to a Chapter. I never like seeing a game I enjoy start to decline, and that's what I feel seasons are.

Also never saw a game announce a balancing plan that will take 2 entire years. With necro at the bottom of the list and that being my main, not too amused.

spartaxoxo · March 12

Syldras wrote: »

But I'm genuinely curious what other people liked. Perhaps there's aspects I've focused too little on (or interpreted differently).

Not who was asked, but I really enjoyed the Argonian lore in Solstice. It was interesting to see Argonians that don't really care about the hist and actually still use the Xanmeers. I feel like it expanded the Argonian culture quite well and actually made the Island feel distinctive, unlike with some of the other cultural groups present.

I also liked the Altmer on Solstice although I feel like that could be better fleshed out. We have already seen plenty of racist High Elves. And we also have already seen Queen Aryenn's ideas seem naive in the main story. So, I think seeing an area where Altmer share land peacefully was a good contrast. I can see why some might feel it to be moralizing but I feel like it was a natural area for the depiction given Solstice's supposed isolation from the mainland. Although I do wish it had been handled with more nuance.

I also enjoyed the some of the other side quests like the pirate quest and the aforementioned Corelyana manor. I also like that some of the smaller decisions actually felt impactful even if they weren't things that would affect my character.

Emeratis · March 12

Syldras wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

As I said in my original post though, I personally feel the writing has gotten better in some ways in the current writing era and worse in others. I appreciate we're getting more loremaster's archives again and that things feel more varied story wise, but I wish moral dilemmas in questing were more "what does your character value" and less "good/bad" or "right/wrong" answers like some earlier eras of eso were and some of the pop culture references and nods and memes would be toned down a bit. I do like that recently we've had a lot of oblivion lore get some love and fleshing out moreso than just "daedric prince of the month" and we are also getting some cool worldbuilding in general. Like I said I personally feel the current writing era is a mixed bag.

Can you give a few examples of recent lore additions that you enjoyed a lot? I mostly see the same negative aspects that you mention; the positive ones - sadly not so much.

For me personally, in terms of writing, I found the past few years more negative than mixed. There are a few quests I did enjoy (Zerith-var's questline was wonderful, and on Solstice I also enjoyed Corelanya Manor a lot), but I also strongly notice this moral writing, and all those quips, and meme-y things, and I don't enjoy that at all. And then, in the Solstice main story, many aspects that were entertaining at least, were basically just repetitions of the base game main quest or other story elements we've seen before, which is also a bit meh.

But I'm genuinely curious what other people liked. Perhaps there's aspects I've focused too little on (or interpreted differently).

Of course! I'd love to.

So, some of it is a bit more personal for me. I have more characters than the character cap in eso with deep intricate stories that I've worked on for years. I often take new quest content and story content as ways to continue their stories and as long as I at least feel inspired in that regard, I am content. Some storylines I dislike a lot but if I can at least get something out of it for my characters, I am ok with them at least.

I've always been a fan of a lot of fan theories, UOL, and more obscure/weird TES lore concepts so I have been happy we are getting more breadcrumbs of the aurbis and metaphysical stuff in recent years. Some of it's been awful (I really really really hate the Zenas quest for example), but I do think there has been an improvement on Oblivion related things in recent years thematically. I like that there is an expansion on daedric princes' spheres, such as focusing on other destructive forces besides fire for Mehrunes Dagon, Hircine is getting upcoming expansion into hunting and what it looks like in different natural biomes, etc. I have on more than one occasion ranted about most Mephala depictions in eso, most of which are in early game, overly focus on spiders and nothing more, making her feel like a "budget Lolth." I think that giving daedric princes more breadth and scope of their realms in ways that feel natural is one of the best things I've seen from eso in recent years that I can note.

Similar to the above, I like that a lot of daedric lore and worlbuilding lately has not just been chained to the princes. Interesting as they are, I love Fargrave and what smaller daedric content has been giving us lately. I enjoy it gameplay wise, but I have really been enamored with the Night Market's lore. I remember going into the pts and spending at least an hour going through each camp and talking to every npc I could before deciding my faction. While I found all of them interesting, I was captivated by how especially with the Thousand Eyes, the personality of the faction shone so I am going to highlight that one most here. The majority of the Thousand Eyes are made up of daedric critters and what many consider lesser daedra. They have banded together for strength in numbers and also barter in secrets and knowledge as a currency of power. It is notable that before this content, several of those daedra did not speak and were often thought to be more animalistic (clanfear, daedrats outside of exceptions like Arox, etc). The leader of the Thousand Eyes uses a maormer translator and magically speaks through her, but other members of the Thousand Eyes work with mortals they cannot easily communicate with. Two npcs in the camp comment about the language barrier issue and how both sides work to communicate and support one another. Outside of text and lorebooks, this is further reinforced by how frequently you see npcs moving around the camp, both daedra and mortals. It feels like you are really seeing the collaborative effort of the group and it was really cool to see that level of worldbuilding in eso again because details like that matter just as much as spoken or written quest assets. I would like to see more show don't tell like this.

I almost hate to open up the Ithelia can of worms but I liked some of the themes of that storyline but felt the writing and conclusion largely disappointing. The elder scrolls has always explored themes of time, space, dreams, reality, and it could have been a fine addition to that (and call me a silly optimist but I still think some of it's saveable) and I wish that it would have focused on those big themes and committed to a story with the stakes of reality. I mentioned in another conversation we had about Slay the Princess and how that game does a good job at telling a story about alternative realities and breaking that cycle while also feeling interesting and satisfying to play. I know a big criticism of alternative time/alternative reality stories from people are related to change and nihilism, but I find especially well written stories about those can be very interesting and compelling and could have been paralleled with similar aspects already existing in the lore from various games in the series set both before and after eso. How do you explain grief of a world only you remember to others (Aldmeris)? When reality falls apart, what if putting it back together does not make a neat little picture (the Warp in the West, dragon breaks)? How do you reconcile the sometimes very conflicting identities of various figures and what do you/your character choose to believe about them (Tiber Septim, Vivec, etc)? I fully admit some of this is probably more what I wanted the storyline to be and what I wrote it as for my characters because I did find most of what we got disappointing and frustrating. There are a few weird references in the Night Market that kinda give me hope that we will get more of what I thought of because there is some degree of the mystery of the Night Market and some things from Gold Road can give some fun theories on that but I'm trying to be vague to avoid spoiling the content for people who want to explore and read it on their own first (but I can in a reply maybe go into it and spoiler some of it too).

Similar to you and others have said, there have been strong writing gems in recent content even if some storylines have been frustrating for the reasons you've mentioned. It's kinda funny comparing notes you and I seem to like similar quests and dislike other similar ones. I did recently make a few posts about questing in older even base game zones with a friend where morality was more character value choices and dilemmas and less right vs wrong. I too also find most memes do not land and sometimes it feels like they've overdone it as of late. I admit I'm curious about how the team changes and new direction will pan out for the story/quests/lore. I hope I'm not reading too much into the Night Market but I also feel it's been more of what I want to see out of storytelling in eso than I've seen in years. There are few quests and eventually you get into repeatable daily quest territory (which I still think are written interestingly, some daily quests have nice stories I appreciate too!), but it feels to me for the Night Market the story is everywhere around me and not just in the quests or the lorebooks. If that's the new writing direction, I am hopeful.

Also I know daedric/oblivion stuff came up a lot but I mean some of the things above as more general things too. I like more about the lore and worldbuilding and stories than just daedra, it just happened to be a lot of the examples I thought of for things kinda related on that theme by coincidence.

Ratzkifal · March 12

Gameplay seems to be going in a good direction. Even performance looks like its improving despite hiccups.
Writing is sadly pretty stale lately. Just replay an old DLC and see for yourself. The difference is night and day. But even then, there is the silverlining of things like dialogue options improving because, for example you have 7/10 in Alchemy so you know this flower is a Columbine and worth a lot, which this NPC appreciates to know.We should absolutely make more use of this feature. That's good RPG mechanics right there.

Rissikah · March 12

Just really upset about Golden Pursuit. Doing that stuff in two days with no effort whatsoever and then nothing to do, thanks ZOS. I really stopped loggin in everyday since they changed that.
Never complained about gameplay cause I dont play pvp, but the stuff they added since Elsweyr is poor and not engaging. Dont even get me started on Blackwood and imaginary daedric prince, the whole bland West Weald. Anything comin after that is even more of an insult.