class mastery from stream

ZhuJiuyin · March 11

Faltasë wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

I also don’t see anything pet related under Sorcerer.

What do you mean, the middle one, implosion, clearly says if you have pets you get less buff.

The only one mentioning pets, is a detriment, for using pets. You can’t make this stuff up. 🤦‍♂️

Not only that, but the other passives suck tbh. Sorc along with Necro look like ***.

Agree.Sorc's EFFICIENT DEFENSE is a joke. What the heck is 0.3 seconds? Don't the developers know that warlock spells all have casting times exceeding 0.5 seconds? Dark Exchange takes one second, Crystal Shard takes 0.8 seconds, and summoning a pet takes 1.5 seconds.

Vaqual · March 11

I didn't see the stream so I am taking this with a grain of salt.
But these tooltips are clearly rage bait and the Devs need to be moderated.

Radiate77 · March 11

Hmmmm… I might have to pull my Templar from early retirement.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · March 11

This is about a year overdue

Tannus15 · March 11

better late than never

Zodiarkslayer · March 11

Some passives could use a rename. Some are just silly, but one in particular is a storm on the horizon.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/689593/march-dev-stream-feedback-arcanist-class-passive-manifest-destiny

Neatle · March 11

Auto-dodge is really something new i'm not looking forward to. It's simply non-interactive and happens in a very short time window; you have almost, if not, 0 control over it and it only creates frustration for both players seeing your hit disappear into nothing or dodging without even noticing it/doing it intentionally..

There's a reason why games like LoL got rid of it as a stat, and why any decent competitive game should too.. you're just a victim of RNG determining the outcome of a duel, and otherwise it's ineffective and simply irritating.

Please never go down that path, NEVER, especially when you've already implemented an in-game mechanic that allows players to dodge mechanically, it's simply a design mistake that should never happen.

ZhuJiuyin · March 11

Radiate77 wrote: »

The only one mentioning pets, is a detriment, for using pets. You can’t make this stuff up. 🤦‍♂️

I'm actually happy about this. Many players have repeatedly confirmed with data in other discussions that the pet-based playstyle severely limits Sorc and hinders its potential. I welcome any attempts to help Sorc break free from the pet-based playstyle.

To be fair, I originally expected at least one of the five passives to be related to enhancing pets. But I'm glad they didn't.

ZhuJiuyin · March 11

However, I'm uneasy about the DK's Rousing Roar. Granting the raid Major Berserk, Heroism, and Protection in a single ability would severely disrupt the balance of PvE and overshadow Sorc's Storm Atronach. If this ability is implemented, it's entirely possible to expect that Sorc will be absent from endgame PvE for a long time to come, until Sorc is reworked.

ADarklore · March 11

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

However, I'm uneasy about the DK's Rousing Roar. Granting the raid Major Berserk, Heroism, and Protection in a single ability would severely disrupt the balance of PvE and overshadow Sorc's Storm Atronach. If this ability is implemented, it's entirely possible to expect that Sorc will be absent from endgame PvE for a long time to come, until Sorc is reworked.

Considering Sorc is scheduled for a rework towards the end of the year, I don't really see that as a 'long time to come', especially since Class Mastery won't be available for a few months. This is all a 'work in progress' and that means patience is key. Interesting how people seem OK with pure classes getting nerfed because of subclassing, while those who only play pure classes have been waiting months to actually be able to compete once again. IMO, it's fine if DK is OP for awhile, just like those who subclass the beam meta think it's OK for them to be OP- which has been going for far too long IMO. Eventually ALL classes will be more closely balanced once again... we hope.

karthrag_inak · March 11

ZhuJiuyin · March 11

ADarklore wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

However, I'm uneasy about the DK's Rousing Roar. Granting the raid Major Berserk, Heroism, and Protection in a single ability would severely disrupt the balance of PvE and overshadow Sorc's Storm Atronach. If this ability is implemented, it's entirely possible to expect that Sorc will be absent from endgame PvE for a long time to come, until Sorc is reworked.

Considering Sorc is scheduled for a rework towards the end of the year, I don't really see that as a 'long time to come', especially since Class Mastery won't be available for a few months. This is all a 'work in progress' and that means patience is key. Interesting how people seem OK with pure classes getting nerfed because of subclassing, while those who only play pure classes have been waiting months to actually be able to compete once again. IMO, it's fine if DK is OP for awhile, just like those who subclass the beam meta think it's OK for them to be OP- which has been going for far too long IMO. Eventually ALL classes will be more closely balanced once again... we hope.

I don't object to Dragonknight being strong for a while. In fact, as I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm happy to have Dragonknight and Warden lead the way in validating the concept of a pure class rework, which is most beneficial for Sorc. However, my concern is that Sorc won't be reworked until the end of the year, while class mastery will be released in the next patch. This means Sorc will have to endure being completely removed from endgame PvE for at least six months. Especially when pure Dragonknight is already very strong, it can replace Sorc and provide Major Berserk to teams without requiring coordination.

twisttop138 · March 11

Is there a place to see these? I cannot click on these images on my phone. A link maybe?

HMG_Spaun · March 11

The necro passives leave a lot to be desired. Seriously disappointing that necro continues to be treated like the step-child.

PeacefulAnarchy · March 11

twisttop138 wrote: »

Is there a place to see these? I cannot click on these images on my phone. A link maybe?

No. These were captured from a stream, they are works in progress. You could watch the stream recording on twitch but it probably won't be more phone friendly than these images.

twisttop138 · March 11

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

Is there a place to see these? I cannot click on these images on my phone. A link maybe?

No. These were captured from a stream, they are works in progress. You could watch the stream recording on twitch but it probably won't be more phone friendly than these images.

Thank you for the reply!! I will sit down and watch the stream or look at the forums on my computer. Im not sure why I can't enlarge the images on my phone.

Thumbless_Bot · March 11

Tannus15 wrote: »

Can we please stop nerfing sorcs for using pets.
I don't understand it, no other class gets nerfed for using their skills. Imagine if a necro passive was weaker if siphoning skill active.

Beacon of Oblivion is a terrible set because of this reason. We've been complaining about it since it was released, can we not double down on this issue.

I would be fine with this in pve. Pets are toxic in pvp and anything zos cam do to discourage their use in pvp is AOK by me.

Radiate77 · March 11

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Can we please stop nerfing sorcs for using pets.
I don't understand it, no other class gets nerfed for using their skills. Imagine if a necro passive was weaker if siphoning skill active.

Beacon of Oblivion is a terrible set because of this reason. We've been complaining about it since it was released, can we not double down on this issue.

I would be fine with this in pve. Pets are toxic in pvp and anything zos cam do to discourage their use in pvp is AOK by me.

What fresh comedy is this?

Pets are not an issue in PvP. If you can’t hit the player, tab target them or time your abilities better.

Thumbless_Bot · March 11

Radiate77 wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Can we please stop nerfing sorcs for using pets.
I don't understand it, no other class gets nerfed for using their skills. Imagine if a necro passive was weaker if siphoning skill active.

Beacon of Oblivion is a terrible set because of this reason. We've been complaining about it since it was released, can we not double down on this issue.

I would be fine with this in pve. Pets are toxic in pvp and anything zos cam do to discourage their use in pvp is AOK by me.

What fresh comedy is this?

Pets are not an issue in PvP. If you can’t hit the player, tab target them or time your abilities better.

I know, it just makes a clustermuddle out of bgs. One clown standing on a flag with 37 pets is, well, dumb.

Also, I use a controller.

Soarora · March 11

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Can we please stop nerfing sorcs for using pets.
I don't understand it, no other class gets nerfed for using their skills. Imagine if a necro passive was weaker if siphoning skill active.

Beacon of Oblivion is a terrible set because of this reason. We've been complaining about it since it was released, can we not double down on this issue.

I would be fine with this in pve. Pets are toxic in pvp and anything zos cam do to discourage their use in pvp is AOK by me.

What fresh comedy is this?

Pets are not an issue in PvP. If you can’t hit the player, tab target them or time your abilities better.

Also, I use a controller.

It’s called tab target because on PC it’s bound to tab by default. Supposedly for controller it’s pressing down the right stick.

DenverRalphy · March 11

Soarora wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Can we please stop nerfing sorcs for using pets.
I don't understand it, no other class gets nerfed for using their skills. Imagine if a necro passive was weaker if siphoning skill active.

Beacon of Oblivion is a terrible set because of this reason. We've been complaining about it since it was released, can we not double down on this issue.

I would be fine with this in pve. Pets are toxic in pvp and anything zos cam do to discourage their use in pvp is AOK by me.

What fresh comedy is this?

Pets are not an issue in PvP. If you can’t hit the player, tab target them or time your abilities better.

Also, I use a controller.

It’s called tab target because on PC it’s bound to tab by default. Supposedly for controller it’s pressing down the right stick.

On controller it's a Press-and-Hold on the Right Stick while the reticle is on the target until it locks. And even then it's only a hard lock, as you can't cycle through targets.

ESO is in dire need of complete controller UI revamp.

virtus753 · March 11

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Can we please stop nerfing sorcs for using pets.
I don't understand it, no other class gets nerfed for using their skills. Imagine if a necro passive was weaker if siphoning skill active.

Beacon of Oblivion is a terrible set because of this reason. We've been complaining about it since it was released, can we not double down on this issue.

I would be fine with this in pve. Pets are toxic in pvp and anything zos cam do to discourage their use in pvp is AOK by me.

What fresh comedy is this?

Pets are not an issue in PvP. If you can’t hit the player, tab target them or time your abilities better.

Also, I use a controller.

It’s called tab target because on PC it’s bound to tab by default. Supposedly for controller it’s pressing down the right stick.

On controller it's a Press-and-Hold on the Right Stick while the reticle is on the target until it locks. And even then it's only a hard lock, as you can't cycle through targets.

ESO is in dire need of complete controller UI revamp.

Starting with the problem they introduced with the subpar support for PlayStation controllers that meant all controllers have an input delay issue making tab targeting, rezzing, and mounting take far longer than they should unless you (re)connect the controller after logging into a character. They quickly acknowledged this issue after it was introduced, but there has been no update about a fix. What we got instead was updated language in our user agreement saying we would not hold ZOS responsible for any damage done to our controllers from any repeated physical reconnections to work around this problem.

It affects a whole group too when players can’t rez as quickly as they should or switch targets properly. More than just the gamepad user is affected.

Faltasë · March 11

SolarRune wrote: »

I like the idea and always thought this was much better than moving skills around into mixed lines - but I am fedup of the pendulum swinging from one extreme to the other - the whole point was that this was to bring pureclass in line with subclass - this goes massively too far and in conjunction with the class refresh (based on DK) pushes pure classes out in front - significantly. After a year of enjoying some build diversity in healers and tanks for the first time in years - that all gets thrown out if subclassing is no longer viable and we are back to the same boring sets and no variation.

You are jumping the gun here a bit, to be blunt. We don't know how the rest of the class refreshes will fair, nor do we know how future subclassing will interact with all of the refreshes. I'd like to make a counterpoint: We already see that the new meta has turned to herald/aedric/ardent because of the DK class getting a buff, which means each subsequent class refresh will also buff the underdeveloped skill lines, meaning that more people will continue to make powerful subclass options that probably will outweigh pure classing.

I think they should continue this route and then when they're finalizing everything make the power output the same, but if your argument is that pure classes shouldn't be more powerful than the subclasses, I'd have to say that your argument is actually stupid.

Turtle_Bot · March 12

Radiate77 wrote: »

Hmmmm… I might have to pull my Templar from early retirement.

I was wondering when someone was going to notice this mastery and am honestly surprised it took this long to be noticed given how "good" some theorycrafters claim to be.

This mastery (assuming it works the same way every other "gains flat damage done to X" works in this game), is more than beyond broken with how much damage this gives.

Assuming this mastery works how I think it might (based on other tooltips with this same descriptor), this mastery will trivialize PvE and will be worse for PvP than any of the current 1 shot builds out there.

Radiate77 · March 12

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Hmmmm… I might have to pull my Templar from early retirement.

I was wondering when someone was going to notice this mastery and am honestly surprised it took this long to be noticed given how "good" some theorycrafters claim to be.

Who are you talking about with this?

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Hmmmm… I might have to pull my Templar from early retirement.

This mastery (assuming it works the same way every other "gains flat damage done to X" works in this game), is more than beyond broken with how much damage this gives.

Assuming this mastery works how I think it might (based on other tooltips with this same descriptor), this mastery will trivialize PvE and will be worse for PvP than any of the current 1 shot builds out there.

Yeah, I fully expect an add-on to surface solely for checking Burning Light procs to make it more visible when proc’d, or, an uptick in Aetheric Lancer use as it indicates the 2nd proc and it’s quite easy to just Ult Dump as the spear falls for easy kills. Or you can skip the ult entirely by running Asylum Inferno.

Yudo · March 12

Finally! Solid direction. Now to test the actual values once available.

ADarklore · March 12

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

I don't object to Dragonknight being strong for a while. In fact, as I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm happy to have Dragonknight and Warden lead the way in validating the concept of a pure class rework, which is most beneficial for Sorc. However, my concern is that Sorc won't be reworked until the end of the year, while class mastery will be released in the next patch. This means Sorc will have to endure being completely removed from endgame PvE for at least six months. Especially when pure Dragonknight is already very strong, it can replace Sorc and provide Major Berserk to teams without requiring coordination.

You mean like how Necro has been for years? Like Templar was a few years ago? Like DK was for many more years than Templar? Every class has gone through a lengthy period of being an outcast, and it sucks. I don't appreciate them buffing Arcanist AGAIN after they were already top pure class when released, and then became both top pure class AND top subclass when subclassing was released. I do appreciate that finally DK DPS is getting a huge boost, and that Templar is finally getting a boost, and I fully expect that Warden and Sorc will both be boosted (if DK is an example) once their rework is complete.

Now, according the video that Skinny Cheeks posted, he thinks many of these DPS passives are going to be great (even the ones for Necro), but some of them- especially the support passives- will not push support players to return to a pure class when they still get better from subclassing. IMO, it seems like ZOS is concerned more about DPS players than support players in this push based on the passives and also the changes to DK, which seemed to benefit DPS a lot more to the detriment of support players.

ZhuJiuyin · March 12

ADarklore wrote: »

You mean like how Necro has been for years? Like Templar was a few years ago? Like DK was for many more years than Templar? Every class has gone through a lengthy period of being an outcast, and it sucks. I don't appreciate them buffing Arcanist AGAIN after they were already top pure class when released, and then became both top pure class AND top subclass when subclassing was released. I do appreciate that finally DK DPS is getting a huge boost, and that Templar is finally getting a boost, and I fully expect that Warden and Sorc will both be boosted (if DK is an example) once their rework is complete.

Now, according the video that Skinny Cheeks posted, he thinks many of these DPS passives are going to be great (even the ones for Necro), but some of them- especially the support passives- will not push support players to return to a pure class when they still get better from subclassing. IMO, it seems like ZOS is concerned more about DPS players than support players in this push based on the passives and also the changes to DK, which seemed to benefit DPS a lot more to the detriment of support players.

In PvE, Sorc and Warden have the lowest usage rates, ranking last and second-to-last respectively. Even their most popular skill lines lag behind other classes by more than double. This means that, if not used for support, Sorc and Warden are the least popular DPS classes. Now, the new Class Mastery will allow a reworked, higher-DPS class to gain the same or even better support capabilities as Sorc. Any experienced PvE endgame player will realize the severity of the problem.

xylena · March 12

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

worse for PvP than any of the current 1 shot builds

God forbid they make pressure viable?

There is no PvP worse than one shot PvP. You might as well just flip coins.

Arc Raiders lead says one shot gameplay is "deeply boring"

Arc Raiders has 10x the players that ESO does on Steam charts

Turtle_Bot · March 12

xylena wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

worse for PvP than any of the current 1 shot builds

God forbid they make pressure viable?

There is no PvP worse than one shot PvP. You might as well just flip coins.

Arc Raiders lead says one shot gameplay is "deeply boring"

Arc Raiders has 10x the players that ESO does on Steam charts

I'll elaborate it more in-depth in a different thread, mostly because I'm not sure if ZOS is completely aware of how the interaction of what that tooltip indicates works in the game or not (especially given the recent revelations regarding the differences between damage done and damage done to monsters).

TL//DR of the issue though is that the bonus damage as described by the tooltip of the mastery stacks very differently to just regular damage increases and as a result of how it stacks in the formula, it's actual buffs to damage done on the final tooltip are astronomically higher than what the flat value indicates.
This turns it from a simple way to increase pressure, to a way to turn pressure abilities into 1 shot burst abilities.