Class reworks and the current state of DK

Fourme · March 10

I'm glad Dragon Knights got a rework, they absolutely needed it and feels insanely good right now, but I just cannot understand how on earth have they let dragon knights get so op, most importantly in pvp.
In pve, most if not all dps are now dks, and in pvp, battlegrounds are just unwinnable if not running a dk. I understand that a class can be strong if now every classes can subclass and use some skills of it, but the fact that all of dks skill branches are way too strong makes it that the only way to win against one is to play dk is awful.
I'm so glad you guys are doing reworks, and I am still thrilled to see my warden get itself a proper rework later on, but I can't really look forward to that if I know that the moment it comes out it's gonna be way too buffed and will ruin the meta, I don't even know how you guys could nerf the dk without ruining it now, it feels like every, single, spells are op and beyond ridiculously unbalanced. The class needs a nerf, and a big one if you want any class to be able to compete against it, just please don't ruin the class or the experience, don't take three updates to do something about it and when you do, do it right, I'm not asking for any "nerf to the ground" type of nerf, just something to make the other classes be able to at least put up a fight against dks.

I'm fine having myself getting destroyed by good players, but knowing that practically none of my builds can hold a fight against most dks just isn't right, especially since I was able to win most of my fights with it just two days ago with em. Also I'm probably not going to look if there's anyone replying to that, I just thought that if they actually take feedback, might as well talk about my experience with the change they made (knowing the pure dks are going to receive passives to further improve them next patch is terrifying ngl).

CatalinaWineMixer2 · March 11

The nerfing because of PvP needs to stop. Forever. Its been over ten years of this. Maybe its time to say no and let the rest of us have the next 10. We certainly can't do worse.
That DK isnt as powerful as the PvP meta either and so what if it was? Every class in the game should be able to compete on a more or less even footing, in ALL aspects of the game. The day that Herald of the Tome and Assassination gets broken up will truly be one of the happiest days of my life, it's only been 3 years. I wish they new DK WAS the meta. Everyone in Tamriel is beamed and animal companions'd out.

LittleLionLeone · March 11

It's likely that they plan on raising the overall dps on every class. So maybe with the next rework we will see warden average dps also be "OP"

nightbringer1993 · March 11

When I see how strong this DK is I can tell you that I want my necro to be remastered as soon as possible [snip]
Why did they put necro last?
[edited for bashing]

ADarklore · March 11

LittleLionLeone wrote: »

It's likely that they plan on raising the overall dps on every class. So maybe with the next rework we will see warden average dps also be "OP"

They'll probably make Warden on par with the new DK... and so on with each class rework (or at least that is my hope, and I'm sure the dev's hope too).

I don't understand complaining about this when we know that we are at the beginning of the class rework process, knowing full well that the 'meta' currently is not healthy for the game. Since I started playing in 2015, the meta has usually changed at least once a year, but right now, there has only been one meta ever since subclassing came out- with no real end in sight, even with the changes to DK. The changes to DK put it on par (or closer at least) with current meta, but not enough to get people to change. I think a lot of people are switching to DK simply because they are tired of the beam meta and want to try something different that's comparable. Perhaps Class Mastery will push pure DK (and other classes) beyond the subclassing beam meta, at least we can hope. While I want subclassing to remain viable, I also like the idea of a buff to pure classes as well, who have suffered greatly because of subclassing.

Major_Mangle · March 11

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

The nerfing because of PvP needs to stop. Forever. Its been over ten years of this. Maybe its time to say no and let the rest of us have the next 10. We certainly can't do worse.
That DK isnt as powerful as the PvP meta either and so what if it was? Every class in the game should be able to compete on a more or less even footing, in ALL aspects of the game. The day that Herald of the Tome and Assassination gets broken up will truly be one of the happiest days of my life, it's only been 3 years. I wish they new DK WAS the meta. Everyone in Tamriel is beamed and animal companions'd out.

The misinformation that PvP is the main cause behind adjustments and nerfs needs to stop. Majority of changes done to specific skills/sets/classes throughout the years have been done because of PvE and that's not even a debatable topic. Every now and then sure PvP is to "blame". But I find it crazy how people genuinely think PvE should be some sandbox territory where powercreep should run free and never receive adjustments (even tho majority of changes doesn't even affect to common player because they don't do challenging enough content where balance actually matters).

twisttop138 · March 11

Major_Mangle wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

The nerfing because of PvP needs to stop. Forever. Its been over ten years of this. Maybe its time to say no and let the rest of us have the next 10. We certainly can't do worse.
That DK isnt as powerful as the PvP meta either and so what if it was? Every class in the game should be able to compete on a more or less even footing, in ALL aspects of the game. The day that Herald of the Tome and Assassination gets broken up will truly be one of the happiest days of my life, it's only been 3 years. I wish they new DK WAS the meta. Everyone in Tamriel is beamed and animal companions'd out.

The misinformation that PvP is the main cause behind adjustments and nerfs needs to stop. Majority of changes done to specific skills/sets/classes throughout the years have been done because of PvE and that's not even a debatable topic. Every now and then sure PvP is to "blame". But I find it crazy how people genuinely think PvE should be some sandbox territory where powercreep should run free and never receive adjustments (even tho majority of changes doesn't even affect to common player because they don't do challenging enough content where balance actually matters).

To be fair to that poster, it's not exactly hard to see why they think that. If you look at these and other mmo forums on a day to day, you see numerous threads about XYZ class, skill line, skill, weapon, set, ability, mythic etc is op and needs to be nerfed for pvp. Regardless of what the cause of the changes are, the it killed me so please nerf it is so overused it's a meme. So how would anyone think differently. To be fair I also think power creep has gotten way out of control and needs to be reigned in but it's hard to see a majority of casual players enjoying their power fantasy agreeing. I think if they make every class on par with DK, they'll need to add a whole new tier of difficulty to the game for dungeons and raids. I'm not a "trifectas have become trivial" guy. I think that's insane when people say that, but I've seen some pretty high parses this week and some good numbers in an all DK pure class vet trial fun run on Monday. So if everyone has the potential for that, we may need to reign that in a bit.

Edit. On the front page right here. More than 1 DK is broken in pvp, please nerf threads. I mean, how could you expect people not to equate the two?

Everest_Lionheart · March 11

The main draw of beam builds is that it is simultaneously the hardest hitting skill which also provides one of the strongest shields in the game. In PVE the subclassing order has switched to have DK as the base class now to get the damage bonus from seething fury to power the whole thing which forced a lot of players to switch from Arc base builds.

As long as subclassing continues to exist it will still come out on top at least until they make a whole bunch of other bonuses contingent upon base class. This is probably as it should be.

To the subject of power creep, the newest zones and content are tuned to those high end builds and once the population in those zones thin out some world boss and public events are going to become a nightmare to complete solo. Go take a stab at some of the Solstice WB’s on a pure class Necro right now and you’ll see what I mean.

New DK is fine, whips seem to be in a better spot, the new DK breath feels janky to play though especially with the designed interaction with take flight. They still lack crit chance without the assassination line and have to run daggers and the maelstrom 2H to have any real sense of rotation otherwise all of the class dots are all over the map in terms of timers. What they have accomplished I think is to raise base damage enough for less skilled players and raised the ceiling for those that have computer brains and can manage 8 different timers and maintain 3 sets of stacking buffs.

Fourme · March 11

I see there's been some misunderstanding, (hi I said I wouldn't see the answers yet I'm commenting back), I just wanted to clarify that I'm glad the dks got a well deserved buff and that it's been long overdue, but we shouldn't just say "let them have it", and realize that having a new class destroy the others every 3 month is just not fun, all classes should be usable, and having that big of a gap between every one of them is nowhere near a good idea in practically any game ever made.

I know every classes will eventually get buffed back into meta, but we should maybe be sure that they are still usable until then, and not left miles behind every others, that's what bothers me.
Again, I'm not asking for nerfs, dk can stay as op as it is right now, but the other classes needs a buff then, the balance is just crazy right now.

wolfie1.0. · March 11

Maybe the solution to rhe pvp problem isnt to nerf attacks but to create situations where players die faster