Scribing inflexibility in the wake of DK changes

TunnelMaster · February 20

So I decide to try to go with the flow with the upcoming DK changes. I have one character who is currently an all stamina, all poison DK but I want to give him a scribed ability so he can enjoy Minor Force. (Don't feel like grinding FG with him at the moment.) Vault, on the bow skill line, seems a natural choice because like I said: he's a poison guy and bow is his bread and butter. But in trying to keep with the times, I figure I'll go with the fire damage focus script since there won't be any incentive to deal poison damage as a DK with update 49...

... except CHOOSING THE FIRE DAMAGE FOCUS SCRIPT turns the skill into a magic ability instead of stamina, which would make it the ONLY non-ult ability on the bow skill line that doesn't use stamina. It wouldn't be a huge deal on a hybrid build... but this character has really always been all about stamina and I honestly just want to save his magic for Igneous Weapons - or whatever new cute name that skill is going to get - and healing.

Rant over. Thanks for listening.

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ESO_Nightingale · February 20

Would be nice to pick what cost we want our ability to have.

Carcamongus · February 20

It's so weird for a bow skill to use magicka. I've never heard of a, uh, wizard ranger. Can the reverse also happen and a staff skill cost stamina? If so, beating enemies to death with a staff when?

I'm not happy with the changes to poison damage for DKs and I guess I'll be even less happy if I read about everything else that's changing.

thesarahandcompany · February 20

Carcamongus wrote: »

It's so weird for a bow skill to use magicka. I've never heard of a, uh, wizard ranger. Can the reverse also happen and a staff skill cost stamina? If so, beating enemies to death with a staff when?

I'm not happy with the changes to poison damage for DKs and I guess I'll be even less happy if I read about everything else that's changing.

A Wizard Ranger is not so farfetched. There's definitely concepts of magically enchanted arrows (Frost Arrow, Arcane Arrows, etc.)The reality is that the bus is so far in the ditch IDK how we pull it out. What I mean is, Hybridization, Subclassing, (and to be fair only a lesser extent scribing) has made it worse.

Scribing in and of itself could have been the solution to Hybridization. Example: Poison injection could be scribed to enchant a bow so it does elemental damage (e.g., shoots flame arrows or frost arrows, etc.). It now costs magicka/scales off magicka/spell damage.

Subclassing is not really subclassing. It's a reskinned version of learning new skill lines (like Mages, Fighters, Psijic) using existing class structures. A subclassing system would have been like:

Dragonknight (primary class) with a subclass of Warden. The Dragonknight retains all of its standard abilities, but now it has more of an "icy fire" or other kind of effect. Example, Engulfing Flames would do frost damage, increase frost damage by 6%, apply chilled. Whip would do frost damage and apply chilled. etc. That would change the aesthetic and also open the DK up to new sets and playstyles (like a frost crit DK).

Stam sorc hurricane with Warden subclass would be a blizzard hurricane/does frost damage and instead of giving minor expedition, slows enemies. Etc.

YandereGirlfriend · February 20

Carcamongus wrote: »

It's so weird for a bow skill to use magicka. I've never heard of a, uh, wizard ranger. Can the reverse also happen and a staff skill cost stamina? If so, beating enemies to death with a staff when?

I'm not happy with the changes to poison damage for DKs and I guess I'll be even less happy if I read about everything else that's changing.

The traditional Elder Scrolls series Witchhunter class says, "Hello!"

"Witchhunters are dedicated to rooting out and destroying the perverted practices of dark cults and profane sorcery. They train for martial, magical, and stealthy war against vampires, witches, warlocks, and necromancers."

They are essentially an arcane archer class mixed with a dash of dash of paladin vibes.

Which is an example of a class that we deserved to have embodied in ESO. I would definitely sacrifice something to Molag Bal to get Witchhunter in the game.

Urzigurumash · February 21

DK using a bow was always an unsettling sight to see for me, the class was supposed to be a Physical Damage Earth-themed Knight and Firemage. The mismatch between the 2016 Poison skills - both a Serpent's poison and Sulfurous volcanic gasses - and Bow being the Poison weapon is a good justification for the change. I expect Poison to land on Necromancer or Warden, where Bow is a more natural fit with the ranged skills.

Poison Bow DK really just came about with the idea that the class needed to fulfill Stam DD, since the Earth Knight had to take the Tank role for the mechanical neccesities of PvE.

The true manifestation of StamDK as a Damage Dealing Earth Knight only ever existed in PvP, but it was destroyed by the hybridization of Whip.

DK is a Firemage now I guess, pardon my rejection of BowKnight but I guess all the flavors of StamDK are now united together in non-existence, or what?

I was surprised when the Earth Knight class was supposed to start using a Poison Claw in 2016, but I grew to like it over the years and defended it on this forum for quite a bit.

ZhuJiuyin · February 21

If I remember correctly, in the TES lore, everyone possesses latent magical abilities, differing only in strength. Even in ESO, the Fighters Guild storyline shows that some Fighters Guild members can use abilities like Portal. Therefore, I think the magic consumption of archery skills is acceptable. Furthermore, as others have mentioned, some hybrid classes, such as Witchhunter, Pilgrim, and Spellsword, utilize both magic and stamina simultaneously.

Urzigurumash · February 21

Let me document here that the association of Earth and Green Noxious Gasses predates ESO, from the Lorebook "The Five Far Stars" which appeared as early as Morrowind and still in ESO:

Rise from darkness, Red Mountain!
Spread your dark clouds and green vapors!
Birth earthquakes, shatter stones!
Feed the winds with fire!
Flay the tents of the tribes from the land!
Feed the burned earth with our souls!

TunnelMaster · February 21

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

The traditional Elder Scrolls series Witchhunter class says, "Hello!"

"Witchhunters are dedicated to rooting out and destroying the perverted practices of dark cults and profane sorcery. They train for martial, magical, and stealthy war against vampires, witches, warlocks, and necromancers."

They are essentially an arcane archer class mixed with a dash of dash of paladin vibes.

Which is an example of a class that we deserved to have embodied in ESO. I would definitely sacrifice something to Molag Bal to get Witchhunter in the game.

THANK YOU. I have said more than once in my main social guild how badly we need some of these canon ES classes in ESO. As much fun as the arcanist or the templar or the dragon knight have been in ESO, talking to someone who only played Daggerfall or Oblivion about their arcanist character may as well be speaking a different language. There were many prefab classes in the original ES games, but as far as I know, only the nightblade and the sorcerer have so far made it into ESO.

Witchhunter has been my #1 choice for a "new, old" class to make the transition, but I would also love to see a bard, crusader, or even agent class in ESO down the road. (I think Tanlorin is described as an agent sometimes, but that may just refer to their membership in the Garland Ring. As far as actual class goes, Tan is of course basically a DK who is also proficient in soul magic - another ESO invention.)

wolfie1.0. · February 21

Carcamongus wrote: »

It's so weird for a bow skill to use magicka. I've never heard of a, uh, wizard ranger. Can the reverse also happen and a staff skill cost stamina? If so, beating enemies to death with a staff when?

I'm not happy with the changes to poison damage for DKs and I guess I'll be even less happy if I read about everything else that's changing.

Probably the only way we will get spears in game...

Horace-Wimp · February 21

Carcamongus wrote: »

It's so weird for a bow skill to use magicka. I've never heard of a, uh, wizard ranger. Can the reverse also happen and a staff skill cost stamina? If so, beating enemies to death with a staff when?

I'm not happy with the changes to poison damage for DKs and I guess I'll be even less happy if I read about everything else that's changing.

In the 1980's there was a Saturday morning cartoon called "Dungeons & Dragons." In it one of the kids assumed the role of Ranger that used a magic bow that fired magic arrows, Fun cartoon. it may be too simple for modern audiences to enjoy.

Sordidfairytale · February 22

Carcamongus wrote: »

It's so weird for a bow skill to use magicka. I've never heard of a, uh, wizard ranger. Can the reverse also happen and a staff skill cost stamina? If so, beating enemies to death with a staff when?

With Elemental Explosion if you choose Physical Damage for the first script then the ability will cost stamina instead of Magicka.

Apollosipod · February 26

Carcamongus wrote: »

It's so weird for a bow skill to use magicka. I've never heard of a, uh, wizard ranger. Can the reverse also happen and a staff skill cost stamina? If so, beating enemies to death with a staff when?

I'm not happy with the changes to poison damage for DKs and I guess I'll be even less happy if I read about everything else that's changing.

Excuse me, good sir. The term is "Rizzard' and they are also masters of charisma.

Necrotech_Master · February 27

Carcamongus wrote: »

It's so weird for a bow skill to use magicka. I've never heard of a, uh, wizard ranger. Can the reverse also happen and a staff skill cost stamina? If so, beating enemies to death with a staff when?

I'm not happy with the changes to poison damage for DKs and I guess I'll be even less happy if I read about everything else that's changing.

all scribed skills are kind of based on their dmg types/focus effects

any scribed ability with bleed, poison, physical, diseased will be a stamina cost ability
any scribed ability with fire, shock, ice, or magic will be magicka cost
any ability using some status effect (stun, pull, heal, shield, etc that doesnt have a dmg component) will also be magicka cost

that applies to any scribed skill from any skill line, which means you can do weird things like making elemental explosion cost stamina, or bow/2h skill cost magicka

the thing is those cost changes dont really show up in actual animations, the elemental explosion cast still looks magical if your casting costs stamina, and for more physical ones your still swinging say a 2h weapon even though the skill costs magicka

the OP is entirely right though that the scribing system as it currently is makes things very limiting (unable to choose cost, only 1 skill option available for the weapon skill lines)

probably why most people end up using more "general" skill line ones such as wield soul, soul burst, and ulfsilds, cause weirdly enough wield soul for example has the largest variety of useable scripts compared to other skills