The Automation Crisis: Why " None UI Add-ons" on Console Violate Official Policy

heimdall14_9 · February 26

Kickimanjaro wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Kickimanjaro wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

The Responsibility Gap: If a mechanic is 'tedious,' ZOS has a responsibility to fix it for everyone—including the millions of players on Xbox and PlayStation who don't have access to third-party automation. By allowing PC players to bypass these mechanics with scripts, ZOS is creating a fundamental imbalance in the game's integrity.

Would you be fine with this if console addons were at parity with PC addons for these functions?

NO I WOULDNT

Would you be fine with it if it was a base game feature?

if this was an base game function id never put time nor money into the game tbh about it i dont like script running things for me offical or 3rd party . if i need to change something for a fight i want to have to do that action not just have it done at no thought about it myself

Soarora · February 26

I’m not sure anyone would care if the “auto swap” feature was removed. It screws up so often that most people don’t use it. But yes, removing wizards wardrobe on the pretense that it does actions for the player (setting gear/cp/etc) sets a precedent that lazywrit’s features of picking up quests, crafting gear, and opening boxes is also not allowed. As well as beammeup’s auto-wayshrine unlock by teleporting to guildmates & friends in the zone without player input. As well as any other addon that auto opens boxes. As well as my bank assistant addons that auto junk things I’ve marked as junk, auto sell when I open a merchant, and auto put in and take out of bank (I would quit if these addons got removed, they bring me SO MUCH quality of life for my inventory management).

And also, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Wizards Wardrobe isn’t even the right addon for you to be fighting right now. It doesn’t have the ability to respec skill lines. It’s an entirely different addon that works with respecs and I don’t even know if console has it.

heimdall14_9 · February 26

Arunei wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

If you think there's a massive ethical problem in using an addon that bypasses a lot of menus...that is probably more of a problem than anything else. It's a game It's not some Geneva Code breaking matter.

You claim to have issues with typing because of disability, so you use AI and that's fine and dandy. Many people playing have issues with their hands and have actual pain and such they deal with, yet an addon that can help them avoid that pain so they can play more is bad and evil and ethically wrong? That smells like hypocrisy.

You're also being incredibly disingenuous here. There's absolutely NO WAY you thought Lazy Writ only did "one action for one interaction". You interact with a Writ board and it grabs all of them for you with that one click, that's more than "one action for one interaction", same with then interacting with each Crafting Station. Yet you only went back on the claims of it being fine when someone pointed out the cintradiction that Lazy Writ does far more than just the "one action for one interaction".

Also your remark about wanting people to "play the game" contradicts your whole argument. Spending ages fiddling in menus isn't playing the game. Interacting with the game world IS playing the game. Why are you so obsessed with whether people spend numerous minutes in menus or not? You're so hung up on what other people might be doing when it's not something that impacts your game, your hours played, your Titles gained, and so on. You'd be better off putting this energy to your own game and not being so worried about how others are playing theirs.

"Arunei, since you want to talk about hypocrisy and 'disability,' let’s address the reality of my situation.

Communication vs. Automation: My use of AI isn't because my 'hands hurt.' I use AI because of a work accident that knocked me unconscious for over 45 minutes and wiped away 36 years of my life. I had to re-learn how to do everything. I use these tools because my brain gets off track, and I am limited in getting my thoughts into text. Using a tool to help me speak is not the same as using a script to play a game for me.

The 'Writ' Distraction: You claim I’m being disingenuous about Lazy Writ Crafter. My point remains: if an add-on violates the One-Action Rule, it should be addressed. I’m not 'backtracking'; I’m being consistent. If a script automates 60+ actions while you stand still, it is an exploit—whether it's at a crafting station or a boss door.

Why I 'Care': You ask why I’m 'obsessed' with how others play. I care because I have spent 48,000 hours (33k on console, 10k on PC) playing the game ZOS actually built. I care because when the community relies on scripts to bypass the Armory or manual preparation, the integrity of the leaderboards and the game's mechanics are eroded.

I’m not 'fiddling in menus'; I am engaging with the RPG systems ZOS designed. I didn't fight to get my life and my brain back just to sit back and watch a script play a game for me. If you want a game that plays itself, that’s your choice—but don’t call it 'hypocrisy' when I advocate for the rules in the Code of Conduct."

See, you're acting like "just hurts" is like a minor ache or something. You're being disingenuous again. There are people who can only play for short amounts of time because of actual debilitating pain. Unless you absolutely cannot communicate without AI, then it only serves as a tool to make things easier and faster for you. Kind of like addons! And for the record using ANY kind of tool to help with communication is fine. My point is convenience over necessity.

If you were being consistent you'd never have claimed Lazy Writ is fine to start with because again, there's no way you genuinely thought it was "one action for one interaction" until it was pointed out it isn't.

You're ignoring that this addon you hate so much requires being set up, which is...oh, MANUAL PREPARATION! And there's the fact that people will change their setups and then those setups in the addon need to be updated. Also you mention the Armory and apparently that's okay even though it saves and lets yoi swap between various setups with like two inputs? If you hate WW so much then you should be against the Armory too, because it bypasses all that stuff you're so adamant on everyone needing to do. Aka spend time in menus.

You keep bringing up how much time you've got in the game and everything. I don't mean to be rude when I say this but no one cares, because it's not relevant to the conversation. How long you've played and all the Titles you habe don't mean anything in the general sense of "does this thing break ZOS' rules about automation or not".

No integrity about mechanics is being eroded, what? The Armory does the SAME THING you're so upset over WW doing, so why aren't you upset about the "integrity" being eroded by that? The only thing I can agree with here is that nothing like that should be able to be used for leaderboard pushes.

Also, my guy, menus are not playing the game. They're what you have to navigate to PLAY the game. Yes, it IS fiddling with menus, I genuinely don't get what gameplay there is in menus that you seem so upset others are skipping. You know when it would be considered an addon playing the game for you? When it DOES ACTUAL CONTENT, like progressing quests by auto running you to goals, when it pushes the buttons and does the inputs to kill enemies, when it interacts with NPCs and selects the right dialog options for you. THAT'S something playing the game for you, not navigating menus.

If you were being consistent you'd never have claimed Lazy Writ is fine to start with because again, there's no way you genuinely thought it was "one action for one interaction" until it was pointed out it isn't. if you look at what i said it states that if to fix this issue all add-ons have to go health or unhealthy then so be it i feel you miss that point as well as your missing and big point here
No integrity about mechanics is being eroded, what? The Armory does the SAME THING you're so upset over WW doing, so why aren't you upset about the "integrity" being eroded by that? The only thing I can agree with here is that nothing like that should be able to be used for leaderboard pushes. armory doesnt work automatically like ww does and is restricted to from trials
You're ignoring that this addon you hate so much requires being set up, which is...oh, MANUAL PREPARATION! And there's the fact that people will change their setups and then those setups in the addon need to be updated. Also you mention the Armory and apparently that's okay even though it saves and lets yoi swap between various setups with like two inputs? If you hate WW so much then you should be against the Armory too, because it bypasses all that stuff you're so adamant on everyone needing to do. Aka spend time in menus. its not about what action its taking its that them actions are automatically being done with 0 input , armory you have to call out , interact with pick build and then your ready to go not just walk and add-on dose everything while you the player does nothing

frogthroat · February 26

BananaBender wrote: »

Switching your build between fights if of course a used strategy, but everyone is using keybinds and not the auto swap feature.

And when you do this, you can optimise each and every trash pull, every encounter separately. Manually swapping is not really feasible if you want to switch 17 times to completely different setups in one run.

Could be that manually swapping item by item is a skill, but because its hinderance you never get to calculate the absolute last bits of dps for each encounter. I would consider that a much better skill. Anyone can learn to swap a few items. But to calculate the absolute optimal gear and skill combination to each and every trash pull requires much more than mindless menu scrolling.

But that's just me. I value adept skill in mathematics more than I value adept menu scrolling.

Arunei wrote: »

If you were being consistent you'd never have claimed Lazy Writ is fine to start with because again, there's no way you genuinely thought it was "one action for one interaction" until it was pointed out it isn't.

We are seeing AI learn in real time. Fascinating.

Kickimanjaro · February 26

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Kickimanjaro wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Kickimanjaro wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

The Responsibility Gap: If a mechanic is 'tedious,' ZOS has a responsibility to fix it for everyone—including the millions of players on Xbox and PlayStation who don't have access to third-party automation. By allowing PC players to bypass these mechanics with scripts, ZOS is creating a fundamental imbalance in the game's integrity.

Would you be fine with this if console addons were at parity with PC addons for these functions?

NO I WOULDNT

Would you be fine with it if it was a base game feature?

if this was an base game function id never put time nor money into the game tbh about it i dont like script running things for me offical or 3rd party . if i need to change something for a fight i want to have to do that action not just have it done at no thought about it myself

So, you don't use the armory system at all? Or, you wouldn't use it if it was allowed in scored content via armory assistants? I'm trying to understand where you draw the line.

You originally said that ZOS has a responsibility to fix tedious mechanics, but when asked directly if you would be fine if they fixed the tedious mechanic of changing your gear, slotted abilities, and champion points by using a base game feature (armory assistant) in scored content you said no.

I think we're talking past each other here and not using the same terms for the same things, causing confusion and division and derailing what could be a productive conversation.

When I talk about this addon, I mean the function whereby a player can define some pre-defined templates (that they must take the time to make and save themselves) and then activate these templates on demand (either through an addon interface or through the in-game armory assistants). You seem to be talking about something else, or perhaps my understanding of this addon (which I've never used and don't really care to) is inaccurate.

Soarora · February 26

frogthroat wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

Switching your build between fights if of course a used strategy, but everyone is using keybinds and not the auto swap feature.

And when you do this, you can optimise each and every trash pull, every encounter separately. Manually swapping is not really feasible if you want to switch 17 times to completely different setups in one run.

Could be that manually swapping item by item is a skill, but because its hinderance you never get to calculate the absolute last bits of dps for each encounter. I would consider that a much better skill. Anyone can learn to swap a few items. But to calculate the absolute optimal gear and skill combination to each and every trash pull requires much more than mindless menu scrolling.

But that's just me. I value adept skill in mathematics more than I value adept menu scrolling.

Arunei wrote: »

If you were being consistent you'd never have claimed Lazy Writ is fine to start with because again, there's no way you genuinely thought it was "one action for one interaction" until it was pointed out it isn't.

We are seeing AI learn in real time. Fascinating.

Not even just dps, but supports NEED to be able to adapt. To this day, the only role I consistently have a trash and individual boss setup strategy for is tank. You just cannot fit a good trash build and a good boss build in one build. Your rapids, AoE chain, and AoE breach might not be useful for the fight and instead you might need more defense or single target debuffs. It also helps with my memory of content I haven’t done in some time because I can see if I needed an interrupt before I start the fight.

As for AI, I do think we should be careful about attacking Heimdall for the AI since it was in fact a suggestion someone gave them. Personally, Heimdall, I think your writing was fine. You just needed to stop typing in all caps and stop making half the comment bolded. Really, if you just don’t type in all caps at all nor bold anything I think it’s perfectly fine.

heimdall14_9 · February 26

skinnycheeks wrote: »

What was your suspension for?

trying to ask for updates to other add-ons using the functions of ww as an standing point after weeks of zos ignoring this factor and giving me the feeing that automation was ok but its funny automation is ok for gear skill cp but you ask for a add-on that picks up daily quest per zone you inter everyone goes nuts lol 😂

Soarora · February 26

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

skinnycheeks wrote: »

What was your suspension for?

trying to ask for updates to other add-ons using the functions of ww as an standing point after weeks of zos ignoring this factor and giving me the feeing that automation was ok but its funny automation is ok for gear skill cp but you ask for a add-on that picks up daily quest per zone you inter everyone goes nuts lol 😂

That’s because it’s not physically possible. An addon to automatically pick up daily quests would be nice, I agree, it’s just not physically possible. Neither is crafting out of thin air haha.

heimdall14_9 · February 26

STUDLETON wrote: »

Hello, I currently maintain WW. Not going to enter the debate, but I will clarify something:

Manual setup swapping is greatly favoured over the automatic setting among top endgame groups and players because it is faster and less error prone. If a boss resets or wipes, depending on the information the game provides at that moment, WW may read false positives and automatically equip to a setup that the player doesn't want, and have to stop the group to manually fix it. Which usually leads to their group telling them to turn off auto setups.

Auto setups was enabled by default by a previous WW developer when it was implemented. There are possible steps to improve detection, but it will likely never be completely reliable. As part of a future rework I plan to touch the settings and defaults, and auto setups is one that will be disabled by default but remain as an accessibility option.

Side note: reading through this thread of inflated, overly lengthy, reiterating AI messages is a rather unenjoyable experience.

ill take it your the one running the add-on then why dont you remove the trigger function all together to get it in line with 1 action rule as it is you have to do 0 input for this add-on to work i get you might be saying it has issues working 100% for PC but the fact that it is even able to be turn on is wrong it shouldnt even be an option one action or no actions its really not that hard an thing to understand

CalamityCat · February 26

It's really very simple. The rules are set by ZOS and it is up to them to decide what breaks them and what action (if any) needs to be taken. It's their playground. They say what is and isn't okay. End of story.

The most likely outcome of this thread is the OP getting yet another ban. A better outcome would be to stop trying to repeat fruitless arguments in slightly different ways. Nothing good is going to come of this IMHO.

heimdall14_9 · February 26

Soarora wrote: »

I’m not sure anyone would care if the “auto swap” feature was removed. It screws up so often that most people don’t use it. But yes, removing wizards wardrobe on the pretense that it does actions for the player (setting gear/cp/etc) sets a precedent that lazywrit’s features of picking up quests, crafting gear, and opening boxes is also not allowed. As well as beammeup’s auto-wayshrine unlock by teleporting to guildmates & friends in the zone without player input. As well as any other addon that auto opens boxes. As well as my bank assistant addons that auto junk things I’ve marked as junk, auto sell when I open a merchant, and auto put in and take out of bank (I would quit if these addons got removed, they bring me SO MUCH quality of life for my inventory management).

And also, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Wizards Wardrobe isn’t even the right addon for you to be fighting right now. It doesn’t have the ability to respec skill lines. It’s an entirely different addon that works with respecs and I don’t even know if console has it.

and yet again your missing my point it aint what the add-on dose its what the player doesnt have to do and thats anything as its auto function dose it all for you ... i could care less if it could change everything as long as you have to do something to inter act with it for it to work other ten set it and forget it

frogthroat · February 26

Soarora wrote: »

Not even just dps, but supports NEED to be able to adapt. To this day, the only role I consistently have a trash and individual boss setup strategy for is tank. You just cannot fit a good trash build and a good boss build in one build. Your rapids, AoE chain, and AoE breach might not be useful for the fight and instead you might need more defense or single target debuffs. It also helps with my memory of content I haven’t done in some time because I can see if I needed an interrupt before I start the fight.

Yes, I'm a healer main so trying to fit all the buffs and debuffs is difficult. But my trial runs are not in scorepushing levels yet so I write what I know. My heaviest use of WW is in solo dungeon runs. But yes, supports need to swap a lot as well. Recently I have been tanking DLC dungeon prog runs and that starts to be my second most heavy use of WW.

Soarora wrote: »

As for AI, I do think we should be careful about attacking Heimdall for the AI since it was in fact a suggestion someone gave them.

For sure. That's why I have clarified multiple times that using AI to aid you is a good thing. My complaint is when the argument itself is clearly from an AI that doesn't understand how the game works. I doubt someone with 48k hours makes those mistakes by themselves.

Edit: oh, I see the comment from him you were referring to. That was actually the first comment he wrote himself. The bold (with occasional all caps) were the texts from another user he was responding to. I actually appreciate the effort. But his AI responses would be fine if it would be more from him and less from AI.

heimdall14_9 · February 26

Kickimanjaro wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Kickimanjaro wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Kickimanjaro wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

The Responsibility Gap: If a mechanic is 'tedious,' ZOS has a responsibility to fix it for everyone—including the millions of players on Xbox and PlayStation who don't have access to third-party automation. By allowing PC players to bypass these mechanics with scripts, ZOS is creating a fundamental imbalance in the game's integrity.

Would you be fine with this if console addons were at parity with PC addons for these functions?

NO I WOULDNT

Would you be fine with it if it was a base game feature?

if this was an base game function id never put time nor money into the game tbh about it i dont like script running things for me offical or 3rd party . if i need to change something for a fight i want to have to do that action not just have it done at no thought about it myself

So, you don't use the armory system at all? Or, you wouldn't use it if it was allowed in scored content via armory assistants? I'm trying to understand where you draw the line.

You originally said that ZOS has a responsibility to fix tedious mechanics, but when asked directly if you would be fine if they fixed the tedious mechanic of changing your gear, slotted abilities, and champion points by using a base game feature (armory assistant) in scored content you said no.

I think we're talking past each other here and not using the same terms for the same things, causing confusion and division and derailing what could be a productive conversation.

When I talk about this addon, I mean the function whereby a player can define some pre-defined templates (that they must take the time to make and save themselves) and then activate these templates on demand (either through an addon interface or through the in-game armory assistants). You seem to be talking about something else, or perhaps my understanding of this addon (which I've never used and don't really care to) is inaccurate.

you like everyone else is missing the point its that its automatic 0 in put just set it and the add-on does the work for you no thinking , no in put just run and it does its thing all by itself

heimdall14_9 · February 26

CalamityCat wrote: »

It's really very simple. The rules are set by ZOS and it is up to them to decide what breaks them and what action (if any) needs to be taken. It's their playground. They say what is and isn't okay. End of story.

The most likely outcome of this thread is the OP getting yet another ban. A better outcome would be to stop trying to repeat fruitless arguments in slightly different ways. Nothing good is going to come of this IMHO.

you might hide from an outnumbered fight but i dont its called integrity for a reason

Soarora · February 26

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I’m not sure anyone would care if the “auto swap” feature was removed. It screws up so often that most people don’t use it. But yes, removing wizards wardrobe on the pretense that it does actions for the player (setting gear/cp/etc) sets a precedent that lazywrit’s features of picking up quests, crafting gear, and opening boxes is also not allowed. As well as beammeup’s auto-wayshrine unlock by teleporting to guildmates & friends in the zone without player input. As well as any other addon that auto opens boxes. As well as my bank assistant addons that auto junk things I’ve marked as junk, auto sell when I open a merchant, and auto put in and take out of bank (I would quit if these addons got removed, they bring me SO MUCH quality of life for my inventory management).

And also, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Wizards Wardrobe isn’t even the right addon for you to be fighting right now. It doesn’t have the ability to respec skill lines. It’s an entirely different addon that works with respecs and I don’t even know if console has it.

and yet again your missing my point it aint what the add-on dose its what the player doesnt have to do and thats anything as its auto function dose it all for you ... i could care less if it could change everything as long as you have to do something to inter act with it for it to work other ten set it and forget it

Ah, okay. Well, like I said at the start of my previous comment, I dont think people would care if that was gone. Most people either keybind a “next setup” button or they pull up the menu and click on the setup they want. The auto swap feature fails when:
- You swapped something out for the particular group you’re in, pull starts and… oops, Wizards undid the change you just made!
- You set up for the run, run starts, and Wizards undid all that because you had a default setup set that you forgot about.
- Strategies might need you to swap at very specific times, you can manually queue the next setup for once combat ends.
- Really sweaty people will have setups differ between trash packs and I think Wizards only supports one automatic trash setup?

heimdall14_9 · February 26

Soarora wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I’m not sure anyone would care if the “auto swap” feature was removed. It screws up so often that most people don’t use it. But yes, removing wizards wardrobe on the pretense that it does actions for the player (setting gear/cp/etc) sets a precedent that lazywrit’s features of picking up quests, crafting gear, and opening boxes is also not allowed. As well as beammeup’s auto-wayshrine unlock by teleporting to guildmates & friends in the zone without player input. As well as any other addon that auto opens boxes. As well as my bank assistant addons that auto junk things I’ve marked as junk, auto sell when I open a merchant, and auto put in and take out of bank (I would quit if these addons got removed, they bring me SO MUCH quality of life for my inventory management).

And also, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Wizards Wardrobe isn’t even the right addon for you to be fighting right now. It doesn’t have the ability to respec skill lines. It’s an entirely different addon that works with respecs and I don’t even know if console has it.

and yet again your missing my point it aint what the add-on dose its what the player doesnt have to do and thats anything as its auto function dose it all for you ... i could care less if it could change everything as long as you have to do something to inter act with it for it to work other ten set it and forget it

Ah, okay. Well, like I said at the start of my previous comment, I dont think people would care if that was gone. Most people either keybind a “next setup” button or they pull up the menu and click on the setup they want. The auto swap feature fails when:
- You swapped something out for the particular group you’re in, pull starts and… oops, Wizards undid the change you just made!
- You set up for the run, run starts, and Wizards undid all that because you had a default setup set that you forgot about.
- Strategies might need you to swap at very specific times, you can manually queue the next setup for once combat ends.
- Really sweaty people will have setups differ between trash packs and I think Wizards only supports one automatic trash setup?

then if this is the case why aint more players wanting to see it be fixed if the auto function is hurting them using it and its an issue to them that dont use add-ons because the same function why we fighting ?????

Soarora · February 26

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I’m not sure anyone would care if the “auto swap” feature was removed. It screws up so often that most people don’t use it. But yes, removing wizards wardrobe on the pretense that it does actions for the player (setting gear/cp/etc) sets a precedent that lazywrit’s features of picking up quests, crafting gear, and opening boxes is also not allowed. As well as beammeup’s auto-wayshrine unlock by teleporting to guildmates & friends in the zone without player input. As well as any other addon that auto opens boxes. As well as my bank assistant addons that auto junk things I’ve marked as junk, auto sell when I open a merchant, and auto put in and take out of bank (I would quit if these addons got removed, they bring me SO MUCH quality of life for my inventory management).

And also, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Wizards Wardrobe isn’t even the right addon for you to be fighting right now. It doesn’t have the ability to respec skill lines. It’s an entirely different addon that works with respecs and I don’t even know if console has it.

and yet again your missing my point it aint what the add-on dose its what the player doesnt have to do and thats anything as its auto function dose it all for you ... i could care less if it could change everything as long as you have to do something to inter act with it for it to work other ten set it and forget it

Ah, okay. Well, like I said at the start of my previous comment, I dont think people would care if that was gone. Most people either keybind a “next setup” button or they pull up the menu and click on the setup they want. The auto swap feature fails when:
- You swapped something out for the particular group you’re in, pull starts and… oops, Wizards undid the change you just made!
- You set up for the run, run starts, and Wizards undid all that because you had a default setup set that you forgot about.
- Strategies might need you to swap at very specific times, you can manually queue the next setup for once combat ends.
- Really sweaty people will have setups differ between trash packs and I think Wizards only supports one automatic trash setup?

then if this is the case why aint more players wanting to see it be fixed if the auto function is hurting them using it and its an issue to them that dont use add-ons because the same function why we fighting ?????

We just turn off the option. It’s not permanently on. I mean, it might be permanently on for consoles right now because of the DMCA situation but… there should be a toggle because there’s a toggle on PC for the auto swap.

As for why we’re fighting, I think it’s a misunderstanding. I don’t think it was clear that you’re against the auto swap feature, not the entirety of wizards wardrobe. So people are arguing as if you’re wanting wizards wardrobe removed. I’m sure you know that though considering all the “you’re missing the point” comments hahaha. Especially considering the auto swap feature doesn’t have any relation to the UI respecs.

Kickimanjaro · February 26

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I’m not sure anyone would care if the “auto swap” feature was removed. It screws up so often that most people don’t use it. But yes, removing wizards wardrobe on the pretense that it does actions for the player (setting gear/cp/etc) sets a precedent that lazywrit’s features of picking up quests, crafting gear, and opening boxes is also not allowed. As well as beammeup’s auto-wayshrine unlock by teleporting to guildmates & friends in the zone without player input. As well as any other addon that auto opens boxes. As well as my bank assistant addons that auto junk things I’ve marked as junk, auto sell when I open a merchant, and auto put in and take out of bank (I would quit if these addons got removed, they bring me SO MUCH quality of life for my inventory management).

And also, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Wizards Wardrobe isn’t even the right addon for you to be fighting right now. It doesn’t have the ability to respec skill lines. It’s an entirely different addon that works with respecs and I don’t even know if console has it.

and yet again your missing my point it aint what the add-on dose its what the player doesnt have to do and thats anything as its auto function dose it all for you ... i could care less if it could change everything as long as you have to do something to inter act with it for it to work other ten set it and forget it

Ah, okay. Well, like I said at the start of my previous comment, I dont think people would care if that was gone. Most people either keybind a “next setup” button or they pull up the menu and click on the setup they want. The auto swap feature fails when:
- You swapped something out for the particular group you’re in, pull starts and… oops, Wizards undid the change you just made!
- You set up for the run, run starts, and Wizards undid all that because you had a default setup set that you forgot about.
- Strategies might need you to swap at very specific times, you can manually queue the next setup for once combat ends.
- Really sweaty people will have setups differ between trash packs and I think Wizards only supports one automatic trash setup?

then if this is the case why aint more players wanting to see it be fixed if the auto function is hurting them using it and its an issue to them that dont use add-ons because the same function why we fighting ?????

Because, as the maintainer of the addon stated earlier, most people just don't use that feature and use the manual function of the addon instead.

Personally, if there's a community created and supported tool that works fine for me but has an optional feature I don't want or don't use that doesn't work right, I'm not going to go out of my way to request that addon author take their own unpaid time to fix or alter it. These are community supported things done by people in their free time for no pay. This feature does not impact me. I don't use it. I don't care if it gets fixed or removed. I assume the same is true about others which is why you don't see an outcry over this largely unused and buggy feature.

Soarora wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I’m not sure anyone would care if the “auto swap” feature was removed. It screws up so often that most people don’t use it. But yes, removing wizards wardrobe on the pretense that it does actions for the player (setting gear/cp/etc) sets a precedent that lazywrit’s features of picking up quests, crafting gear, and opening boxes is also not allowed. As well as beammeup’s auto-wayshrine unlock by teleporting to guildmates & friends in the zone without player input. As well as any other addon that auto opens boxes. As well as my bank assistant addons that auto junk things I’ve marked as junk, auto sell when I open a merchant, and auto put in and take out of bank (I would quit if these addons got removed, they bring me SO MUCH quality of life for my inventory management).

And also, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Wizards Wardrobe isn’t even the right addon for you to be fighting right now. It doesn’t have the ability to respec skill lines. It’s an entirely different addon that works with respecs and I don’t even know if console has it.

and yet again your missing my point it aint what the add-on dose its what the player doesnt have to do and thats anything as its auto function dose it all for you ... i could care less if it could change everything as long as you have to do something to inter act with it for it to work other ten set it and forget it

Ah, okay. Well, like I said at the start of my previous comment, I dont think people would care if that was gone. Most people either keybind a “next setup” button or they pull up the menu and click on the setup they want. The auto swap feature fails when:
- You swapped something out for the particular group you’re in, pull starts and… oops, Wizards undid the change you just made!
- You set up for the run, run starts, and Wizards undid all that because you had a default setup set that you forgot about.
- Strategies might need you to swap at very specific times, you can manually queue the next setup for once combat ends.
- Really sweaty people will have setups differ between trash packs and I think Wizards only supports one automatic trash setup?

then if this is the case why aint more players wanting to see it be fixed if the auto function is hurting them using it and its an issue to them that dont use add-ons because the same function why we fighting ?????

We just turn off the option. It’s not permanently on. I mean, it might be permanently on for consoles right now because of the DMCA situation but… there should be a toggle because there’s a toggle on PC for the auto swap.

As for why we’re fighting, I think it’s a misunderstanding. I don’t think it was clear that you’re against the auto swap feature, not the entirety of wizards wardrobe. So people are arguing as if you’re wanting wizards wardrobe removed. I’m sure you know that though considering all the “you’re missing the point” comments hahaha. Especially considering the auto swap feature doesn’t have any relation to the UI respecs.

I agree with Soarora here. I think we are fighting because of a misunderstanding. I thought you wanted the complete removal of any and all addons that could be considered to be breaking the 1-input 1-output rule which would kill this and many other addons in their entirety. But, as you have clarified, you are more specifically focused on the automatic swapping between sets based on currently detected zone or whatever. I actually totally agree with you there. That probably shouldn't be a thing.

YandereGirlfriend · February 26

Quite right, OP!

I have never understood why obviously automated mods like LWC are allowed in the game.

That mod specifically has a huge impact on the player economy and directly disadvantages non-mod users who do the entire process by hand (e.g. the actual process intended by the devs).

My guess is that the mod is simply too popular and too widespread to do anything with now

heimdall14_9 · February 26

Soarora wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I’m not sure anyone would care if the “auto swap” feature was removed. It screws up so often that most people don’t use it. But yes, removing wizards wardrobe on the pretense that it does actions for the player (setting gear/cp/etc) sets a precedent that lazywrit’s features of picking up quests, crafting gear, and opening boxes is also not allowed. As well as beammeup’s auto-wayshrine unlock by teleporting to guildmates & friends in the zone without player input. As well as any other addon that auto opens boxes. As well as my bank assistant addons that auto junk things I’ve marked as junk, auto sell when I open a merchant, and auto put in and take out of bank (I would quit if these addons got removed, they bring me SO MUCH quality of life for my inventory management).

And also, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Wizards Wardrobe isn’t even the right addon for you to be fighting right now. It doesn’t have the ability to respec skill lines. It’s an entirely different addon that works with respecs and I don’t even know if console has it.

and yet again your missing my point it aint what the add-on dose its what the player doesnt have to do and thats anything as its auto function dose it all for you ... i could care less if it could change everything as long as you have to do something to inter act with it for it to work other ten set it and forget it

Ah, okay. Well, like I said at the start of my previous comment, I dont think people would care if that was gone. Most people either keybind a “next setup” button or they pull up the menu and click on the setup they want. The auto swap feature fails when:
- You swapped something out for the particular group you’re in, pull starts and… oops, Wizards undid the change you just made!
- You set up for the run, run starts, and Wizards undid all that because you had a default setup set that you forgot about.
- Strategies might need you to swap at very specific times, you can manually queue the next setup for once combat ends.
- Really sweaty people will have setups differ between trash packs and I think Wizards only supports one automatic trash setup?

then if this is the case why aint more players wanting to see it be fixed if the auto function is hurting them using it and its an issue to them that dont use add-ons because the same function why we fighting ?????

We just turn off the option. It’s not permanently on. I mean, it might be permanently on for consoles right now because of the DMCA situation but… there should be a toggle because there’s a toggle on PC for the auto swap.

As for why we’re fighting, I think it’s a misunderstanding. I don’t think it was clear that you’re against the auto swap feature, not the entirety of wizards wardrobe. So people are arguing as if you’re wanting wizards wardrobe removed. I’m sure you know that though considering all the “you’re missing the point” comments hahaha. Especially considering the auto swap feature doesn’t have any relation to the UI respecs.

✭✭✭
Reverb wrote: »
What is your intended outcome here? Do you think you’re raising a topic that Zeni isn’t already fully aware of? Are you wanting the removal of addons? We can all see that you’re very passionate about this, but to what end? Just tilting at windmills?

"Reverb, my intended outcome has been the same since the first post. I’m not 'tilting at windmills'; I’m pointing out a clear mechanical exploit that bypasses the rules of the game.

The Solution: I’m not asking for the removal of Wizard's Wardrobe as a concept. I want to see the add-on drop the automated environmental triggers and become a standard, manual UI feature.

Manual UI vs. Scripted Automation: If the add-on functioned as a manual drop-down menu where the player has to intentionally click to swap, it would be a helpful UI tool. When it executes 60+ actions automatically because you walked into a room, it becomes a gameplay script.

Integrity for All: This isn't about 'hating' PC players. It’s about ensuring that the Code of Conduct applies to everyone equally. ZOS already provided the Armory System as the official way to manage builds. Third-party tools shouldn't be allowed to automate what the official system requires us to do manually.

I’ve spent 48,000 hours playing this game the right way—with manual skill and preparation. I’m pushing this point because a game that allows scripts to replace player execution is a game that is losing its integrity."

i thought here in post 66 i was really clar as to what id like to see happen with ww add-on as it aint an bad tool just being missed used to bypass an rule set 1 action

heimdall14_9 · February 26

Kickimanjaro wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I’m not sure anyone would care if the “auto swap” feature was removed. It screws up so often that most people don’t use it. But yes, removing wizards wardrobe on the pretense that it does actions for the player (setting gear/cp/etc) sets a precedent that lazywrit’s features of picking up quests, crafting gear, and opening boxes is also not allowed. As well as beammeup’s auto-wayshrine unlock by teleporting to guildmates & friends in the zone without player input. As well as any other addon that auto opens boxes. As well as my bank assistant addons that auto junk things I’ve marked as junk, auto sell when I open a merchant, and auto put in and take out of bank (I would quit if these addons got removed, they bring me SO MUCH quality of life for my inventory management).

And also, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Wizards Wardrobe isn’t even the right addon for you to be fighting right now. It doesn’t have the ability to respec skill lines. It’s an entirely different addon that works with respecs and I don’t even know if console has it.

and yet again your missing my point it aint what the add-on dose its what the player doesnt have to do and thats anything as its auto function dose it all for you ... i could care less if it could change everything as long as you have to do something to inter act with it for it to work other ten set it and forget it

Ah, okay. Well, like I said at the start of my previous comment, I dont think people would care if that was gone. Most people either keybind a “next setup” button or they pull up the menu and click on the setup they want. The auto swap feature fails when:
- You swapped something out for the particular group you’re in, pull starts and… oops, Wizards undid the change you just made!
- You set up for the run, run starts, and Wizards undid all that because you had a default setup set that you forgot about.
- Strategies might need you to swap at very specific times, you can manually queue the next setup for once combat ends.
- Really sweaty people will have setups differ between trash packs and I think Wizards only supports one automatic trash setup?

then if this is the case why aint more players wanting to see it be fixed if the auto function is hurting them using it and its an issue to them that dont use add-ons because the same function why we fighting ?????

Because, as the maintainer of the addon stated earlier, most people just don't use that feature and use the manual function of the addon instead.

Personally, if there's a community created and supported tool that works fine for me but has an optional feature I don't want or don't use that doesn't work right, I'm not going to go out of my way to request that addon author take their own unpaid time to fix or alter it. These are community supported things done by people in their free time for no pay. This feature does not impact me. I don't use it. I don't care if it gets fixed or removed. I assume the same is true about others which is why you don't see an outcry over this largely unused and buggy feature.

Soarora wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I’m not sure anyone would care if the “auto swap” feature was removed. It screws up so often that most people don’t use it. But yes, removing wizards wardrobe on the pretense that it does actions for the player (setting gear/cp/etc) sets a precedent that lazywrit’s features of picking up quests, crafting gear, and opening boxes is also not allowed. As well as beammeup’s auto-wayshrine unlock by teleporting to guildmates & friends in the zone without player input. As well as any other addon that auto opens boxes. As well as my bank assistant addons that auto junk things I’ve marked as junk, auto sell when I open a merchant, and auto put in and take out of bank (I would quit if these addons got removed, they bring me SO MUCH quality of life for my inventory management).

And also, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Wizards Wardrobe isn’t even the right addon for you to be fighting right now. It doesn’t have the ability to respec skill lines. It’s an entirely different addon that works with respecs and I don’t even know if console has it.

and yet again your missing my point it aint what the add-on dose its what the player doesnt have to do and thats anything as its auto function dose it all for you ... i could care less if it could change everything as long as you have to do something to inter act with it for it to work other ten set it and forget it

Ah, okay. Well, like I said at the start of my previous comment, I dont think people would care if that was gone. Most people either keybind a “next setup” button or they pull up the menu and click on the setup they want. The auto swap feature fails when:
- You swapped something out for the particular group you’re in, pull starts and… oops, Wizards undid the change you just made!
- You set up for the run, run starts, and Wizards undid all that because you had a default setup set that you forgot about.
- Strategies might need you to swap at very specific times, you can manually queue the next setup for once combat ends.
- Really sweaty people will have setups differ between trash packs and I think Wizards only supports one automatic trash setup?

then if this is the case why aint more players wanting to see it be fixed if the auto function is hurting them using it and its an issue to them that dont use add-ons because the same function why we fighting ?????

We just turn off the option. It’s not permanently on. I mean, it might be permanently on for consoles right now because of the DMCA situation but… there should be a toggle because there’s a toggle on PC for the auto swap.

As for why we’re fighting, I think it’s a misunderstanding. I don’t think it was clear that you’re against the auto swap feature, not the entirety of wizards wardrobe. So people are arguing as if you’re wanting wizards wardrobe removed. I’m sure you know that though considering all the “you’re missing the point” comments hahaha. Especially considering the auto swap feature doesn’t have any relation to the UI respecs.

I agree with Soarora here. I think we are fighting because of a misunderstanding. I thought you wanted the complete removal of any and all addons that could be considered to be breaking the 1-input 1-output rule which would kill this and many other addons in their entirety. But, as you have clarified, you are more specifically focused on the automatic swapping between sets based on currently detected zone or whatever. I actually totally agree with you there. That probably shouldn't be a thing.

thats because you on pc have a way to keybind it add-ons are new to console and has no keybind ways outside of 3rd party and thats not ok too lol 😂 and just because something might not be used by 100% of them running this it even having the possibility to is a problem

heimdall14_9 · February 26

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Quite right, OP!

I have never understood why obviously automated mods like LWC are allowed in the game.

That mod specifically has a huge impact on the player economy and directly disadvantages non-mod users who do the entire process by hand (e.g. the actual process intended by the devs).

My guess is that the mod is simply too popular and too widespread to do anything with now

popularity and amount of use should never be an factor when something is crossing the lines of right and wrong and ww needing 0 in put to do its thing is 100% against 1 action rule set no matter how long the leeway has been gave to PC

CalamityCat · February 26

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

CalamityCat wrote: »

It's really very simple. The rules are set by ZOS and it is up to them to decide what breaks them and what action (if any) needs to be taken. It's their playground. They say what is and isn't okay. End of story.

The most likely outcome of this thread is the OP getting yet another ban. A better outcome would be to stop trying to repeat fruitless arguments in slightly different ways. Nothing good is going to come of this IMHO.

you might hide from an outnumbered fight but i dont its called integrity for a reason

There's a saying about people who make assumptions. You clearly know nothing about me or my background. Also, I'm trying to save you getting banned over something that isn't worth the fight. There are things worth fight for, a stupid game add-on isn't one of them.

This isn't about integrity or being outnumbered, it's a very simple situation - they run the game, they make the rules. It's a privately owned website. Also, they've seen all your posts. Your views have been heard. You've done all you can do on this issue so why risk further bans by arguing over and over?

heimdall14_9 · February 26

CalamityCat wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

CalamityCat wrote: »

It's really very simple. The rules are set by ZOS and it is up to them to decide what breaks them and what action (if any) needs to be taken. It's their playground. They say what is and isn't okay. End of story.

The most likely outcome of this thread is the OP getting yet another ban. A better outcome would be to stop trying to repeat fruitless arguments in slightly different ways. Nothing good is going to come of this IMHO.

you might hide from an outnumbered fight but i dont its called integrity for a reason

There's a saying about people who make assumptions. You clearly know nothing about me or my background. Also, I'm trying to save you getting banned over something that isn't worth the fight. There are things worth fight for, a stupid game add-on isn't one of them.

This isn't about integrity or being outnumbered, it's a very simple situation - they run the game, they make the rules. It's a privately owned website. Also, they've seen all your posts. Your views have been heard. You've done all you can do on this issue so why risk further bans by arguing over and over?

it would be easier to walk away from 10 years and thousands of dollars fighting to keep the integrity of what ive put so much time and money into being banned then walking away without an fight so again your right we aint the same , and what they going to ban me for trying to get an official stance on if 0 in put 60+ actions is the way eso really attends their game to be played by script

Soarora · February 26

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I’m not sure anyone would care if the “auto swap” feature was removed. It screws up so often that most people don’t use it. But yes, removing wizards wardrobe on the pretense that it does actions for the player (setting gear/cp/etc) sets a precedent that lazywrit’s features of picking up quests, crafting gear, and opening boxes is also not allowed. As well as beammeup’s auto-wayshrine unlock by teleporting to guildmates & friends in the zone without player input. As well as any other addon that auto opens boxes. As well as my bank assistant addons that auto junk things I’ve marked as junk, auto sell when I open a merchant, and auto put in and take out of bank (I would quit if these addons got removed, they bring me SO MUCH quality of life for my inventory management).

And also, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Wizards Wardrobe isn’t even the right addon for you to be fighting right now. It doesn’t have the ability to respec skill lines. It’s an entirely different addon that works with respecs and I don’t even know if console has it.

and yet again your missing my point it aint what the add-on dose its what the player doesnt have to do and thats anything as its auto function dose it all for you ... i could care less if it could change everything as long as you have to do something to inter act with it for it to work other ten set it and forget it

Ah, okay. Well, like I said at the start of my previous comment, I dont think people would care if that was gone. Most people either keybind a “next setup” button or they pull up the menu and click on the setup they want. The auto swap feature fails when:
- You swapped something out for the particular group you’re in, pull starts and… oops, Wizards undid the change you just made!
- You set up for the run, run starts, and Wizards undid all that because you had a default setup set that you forgot about.
- Strategies might need you to swap at very specific times, you can manually queue the next setup for once combat ends.
- Really sweaty people will have setups differ between trash packs and I think Wizards only supports one automatic trash setup?

then if this is the case why aint more players wanting to see it be fixed if the auto function is hurting them using it and its an issue to them that dont use add-ons because the same function why we fighting ?????

We just turn off the option. It’s not permanently on. I mean, it might be permanently on for consoles right now because of the DMCA situation but… there should be a toggle because there’s a toggle on PC for the auto swap.

As for why we’re fighting, I think it’s a misunderstanding. I don’t think it was clear that you’re against the auto swap feature, not the entirety of wizards wardrobe. So people are arguing as if you’re wanting wizards wardrobe removed. I’m sure you know that though considering all the “you’re missing the point” comments hahaha. Especially considering the auto swap feature doesn’t have any relation to the UI respecs.

i thought here in post 66 i was really clar as to what id like to see happen with ww add-on as it aint an bad tool just being missed used to bypass an rule set 1 action

You’re right, you were clear in that comment. I didn’t thoroughly read the entire thread before commenting since I had read the previous threads before. I notice that even shorter threads, some people will just read the first message and then comment.

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

thats because you on pc have a way to keybind it add-ons are new to console and has no keybind ways outside of 3rd party and thats not ok too lol 😂 and just because something might not be used by 100% of them running this it even having the possibility to is a problem

I think the “next setup” “keybind” for console is bound to a wheel. I don’t remember the specifics as to which wheel it’s bound to but I recall watching a discussion about it when it was being implemented.

lillybit · February 26

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Kickimanjaro wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Kickimanjaro wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Kickimanjaro wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

The Responsibility Gap: If a mechanic is 'tedious,' ZOS has a responsibility to fix it for everyone—including the millions of players on Xbox and PlayStation who don't have access to third-party automation. By allowing PC players to bypass these mechanics with scripts, ZOS is creating a fundamental imbalance in the game's integrity.

Would you be fine with this if console addons were at parity with PC addons for these functions?

NO I WOULDNT

Would you be fine with it if it was a base game feature?

if this was an base game function id never put time nor money into the game tbh about it i dont like script running things for me offical or 3rd party . if i need to change something for a fight i want to have to do that action not just have it done at no thought about it myself

So, you don't use the armory system at all? Or, you wouldn't use it if it was allowed in scored content via armory assistants? I'm trying to understand where you draw the line.

You originally said that ZOS has a responsibility to fix tedious mechanics, but when asked directly if you would be fine if they fixed the tedious mechanic of changing your gear, slotted abilities, and champion points by using a base game feature (armory assistant) in scored content you said no.

I think we're talking past each other here and not using the same terms for the same things, causing confusion and division and derailing what could be a productive conversation.

When I talk about this addon, I mean the function whereby a player can define some pre-defined templates (that they must take the time to make and save themselves) and then activate these templates on demand (either through an addon interface or through the in-game armory assistants). You seem to be talking about something else, or perhaps my understanding of this addon (which I've never used and don't really care to) is inaccurate.

you like everyone else is missing the point its that its automatic 0 in put just set it and the add-on does the work for you no thinking , no in put just run and it does its thing all by itself

It's not zero input. You're missing the point. Just because the input was made before you entered the dungeon, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I go into Lazy Writ Crafter and set it up to do my writs and bank the proceeds and that is the input it needs. The fact that I have to click on the crafting stations and banker first is irrelevant. The addon detects when the character is in the correct state to carry out the input and does so. It just so happens that you click on the station first because the actions are impossible before that. Just like WW makes the changes you've told it to when the game is in the right state for that, ie in the right place and out of combat.

I have the auto recharge and repair addon too. And the "one action" it needs to operate is turning it on in the menu. It detects when the game is in the correct state and performs the actions I inputted.

Now I know you'll say that this just proves your point that they use automation but that is not what ZoS classes as automation. That's the key point here. These things are not things that have been overlooked, ZoS knows about them. They are not against their rules.

This isn't about integrity or any of the other spurious arguments you've swapped between. You're picking out random keywords and using them out of context to "prove" your point. You don't have to like them but they're doing nothing wrong.

BagOfBadgers · February 26

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Manual UI vs. Scripted Automation: If the add-on functioned as a manual drop-down menu where the player has to intentionally click to swap, it would be a helpful UI tool. When it executes 60+ actions automatically because you walked into a room, it becomes a gameplay script."

Using that logic, are you OK with me having faster RAM, CPU & GPU than you as I'm on on PC , meaning that I can do manual tasks, eg gear swaps (Not using WW) faster on PC than Console?

Also, in all my time playing this game, I have never, never been told to run WW in any content, let alone asked.

PS, thanks for highlighting WW, it will really help with my gampad use on PC, as I can set it up in advance and just enjoy combat. Thank you for helping a fellow disabled player!

Orbital78 · February 26

Bruh

ZOS_Hadeostry · February 26

Greetings,

We want to thank everyone for their feedback on this topic, so far. I wanted to stop by and remind everyone to continue staying on topic, making sure that we are respectful to each other, and keeping the Community Rules in mind when posting.

spartaxoxo · February 26

Question about Wizard's Wardrobe because I actually thought it was more like the armory but now I hear how it functions, I'm actually curious about it from a roleplay perspective too.

Are we able to have an outfit that it automatically switches to in towns/overland?