Removing Map Based Leads?

MidnightDuel · February 25

ESO has a broad and varied player base and years of content for diverse play styles. When the Antiquities system was introduced, leads for everything dropped from a variety of sources and there were no shortcuts. Having a completed codex didn't matter if you wanted five Wild Hunt rings or five Vampiric Stained Glass windows. Each Antiquity had to be farmed separately and repeatedly if a player wanted more than one. While not an ideal situation, at least it was equitable, not favoring any player group over another.

Unfortunately, over time there has developed an enormous inequity in the game in regard to how much "grind" is required for players to achieve their individual goals, particularly with regard to Antiquities. If one's focus is combat, the sources of mythic leads are now mostly combat-related activities. In contrast, players with a focus on housing have seen an unfavorable shift to furnishing leads double triple-locked behind rare zone Treasure Maps, poor drop rates, and large loot tables.

Whereas combat-focused Mythic gear only needs to be unlocked once for virtually endless recreation, Antiquity furnishings either require a complete codex to buy extras with gold or remain forever double-locked behind the original source.

What we are asking for is that the developers make the game systems fair and equitable to all players and play styles, not favoring combat over player housing in this case.

First steps to bringing back equality are:

Make rare zone treasure maps for Solstice, West Weald, Apocrypha and The Telvanni Peninsula more available and accessible, not locking them behind "Archival Fortunes" and "Tel Var" treasure map purchases either.
Add CURATION to the leads that drop from Treasure Maps, just like combat gear from dungeons, trials and infinite archive sets.
Make all antiquities purchasable from sellers after the first antiquity, instead of requiring a full codex, and not locking the other (blue and green quality) furnishings behind endless lead farming.

kitsun_dark · February 26

The only thing i don't understand is why these antiquities can't be bought after finding 3 pieces. It just doesn't make sense, because you can do it with antiquities not from treasure maps. Or these leads should drop really often if you don't let us buy them.
I want to get 25 apocrypha shells for my house and i still only have 3 after a few dozen treasure maps. If the rules were more adequate, i could have already bought it.

MoonPile · February 26

kitsun_dark wrote: »

The only thing i don't understand is why these antiquities can't be bought after finding 3 pieces. It just doesn't make sense, because you can do it with antiquities not from treasure maps. Or these leads should drop really often if you don't let us buy them.
I want to get 25 apocrypha shells for my house and i still only have 3 after a few dozen treasure maps. If the rules were more adequate, i could have already bought it.

This seems to be unintentional, AFAIK. All antiquities are supposed to be buyable. But, of course, I do not know of any internal plans nor timeline to fix this.

Separately,
Re: Curation above – Yes, but also improving drop rates. More akin to those for 1/3 codex.
Related: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/688204/there-needs-to-be-a-mercy-system-for-antiquity-leads

Aside,
(TL;DR: I'm in a bad mood and hate maps. Feel free to ignore this.)

Happy for people who somehow enjoy Treasure Maps. I can't speak for all Housers, but personally, I find Maps to be one of the most boring systems in the game.

There is nothing I find interesting about scouring TTC for the cheapest maps, running to try to buy them before they're gone, scouring TTC some more, then trying to organize them in inventory (at least that will be helped in U49), then running back and forth refreshing the "treasure" site, and getting a bunch of decon junk 95%+ of the time. Not to mention the dry streaks that players are seeing: 25 - 150+ maps of nothing but junk.

As shown here, I'd literally rather sit in one spot and kill the same boss all day – crucially: to get multiple of the item I like – than do Maps at all.

What I do find fun:
Going to the NPC housing vendors, buying the items I want with gold, and then spending my time doing creative projects in Housing.

"So you just want everything for free" is a common retort – But at no point is any of it free. I paid for the DLC with real money, I've paid for ESO+ with real money. Items are obtained via achievements and with gold gotten by playing the game, doing things I found at least somewhat enjoyable. But yes, I would like the stuff without a boring middle system to grind through to get it. And no, I don't care a single iota about MMO conventions; I'm certain that more fun and interesting systems can supplant this.

So at the very least, if we have to have housing items stuck in Maps, let it be over quickly. If there's players out there who enjoy doing this organically, waiting for the Map to drop, finding the site without any addons, etc. – nobody's stopping that, it's a choice. But as it stands, we who dislike this have no other choice to get some of these items, and don't want our chief gameplay hindered by this system.

BetweenMidgets · February 27

MoonPile wrote: »

@BetweenMidgets you may not have seen our survey then

I hadn't, thanks for the heads up. I took the survey.

Anything to give a sliver of hope that ZoS could adjust the system, since they're trying to adjust other aspects of the game to bring people back.

Not sure if it is too late for me, but the system is an absolute misery, and needs attention. Especially since housing whales are probably a large part of ESOs success (2 billion in 10 years on the backs of people getting screwed by these freaking leads just so we can decorate pixel houses.)

BretonMage · February 27

MoonPile wrote: »

kitsun_dark wrote: »

The only thing i don't understand is why these antiquities can't be bought after finding 3 pieces. It just doesn't make sense, because you can do it with antiquities not from treasure maps. Or these leads should drop really often if you don't let us buy them.
I want to get 25 apocrypha shells for my house and i still only have 3 after a few dozen treasure maps. If the rules were more adequate, i could have already bought it.

This seems to be unintentional, AFAIK. All antiquities are supposed to be buyable. But, of course, I do not know of any internal plans nor timeline to fix this.

If it's unintentional, then I really hope it will be fixed sooner rather than later.

MidnightDuel · February 27

MoonPile wrote: »

This seems to be unintentional, AFAIK. All antiquities are supposed to be buyable. But, of course, I do not know of any internal plans nor timeline to fix this.

I respectfully disagree about this being "unintentional." ESO is a computer game where everything is coded. The system is by its nature quite deliberate.

Green and blue furnishing leads began dropping from treasure maps when Necrom launched. That was the return of certain antiquity furnishings not being able to be purchased with gold after completing the codex. When players complained about the Mushroom Classification Book (originally a "green" furnishing) and Cliff Strider Skeleton Stand (originally a "blue" furnishing) not being available for gold, the items were changed to "purple" quality and added to the Necrom Achievement vendor.

Here is a partial list of Antiquities that cannot be purchased for gold after completing the codices:

kitsun_dark · February 27

MoonPile wrote: »

This seems to be unintentional, AFAIK. All antiquities are supposed to be buyable. But, of course, I do not know of any internal plans nor timeline to fix this.

Separately,
Re: Curation above – Yes, but also improving drop rates. More akin to those for 1/3 codex.
Related: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/688204/there-needs-to-be-a-mercy-system-for-antiquity-leads

As shown here, I'd literally rather sit in one spot and kill the same boss all day – crucially: to get multiple of the item I like – than do Maps at all.

Yes, your statistics look truly terrible... Today i only got 1 lead so far, compared to 3 yesterday. It simply discourages me too.
I completely agree that we shouldn't have such a negative experience. Moreover, i could have brought some more money to the game if the drop had worked properly. I don't have these items -> i won't move my house to a live server - > i won't spend crowns and gold. At least the issue of losing potential profits and playing time should be of interest to devs?

As for the problem with buyable leads, well, if it's unintentional, then i am surprised it hasn't been fixed yet, it's been quite a while since the Telvanni Peninsula location appeared

I know that there are many other critical tasks, but i really hope that they will pay attention to this thread and fix these problems. Housing currently accounts for a very large share of players' interest (as many have already said here) and i really love it, but this kind of thing is really frustrating.

MidnightDuel · February 27

MoonPile wrote: »

(TL;DR: I'm in a bad mood and hate maps. Feel free to ignore this.)
Happy for people who somehow enjoy Treasure Maps. I can't speak for all Housers, but personally, I find Maps to be one of the most boring systems in the game.

There is nothing I find interesting about scouring TTC for the cheapest maps, running to try to buy them before they're gone, scouring TTC some more, then trying to organize them in inventory (at least that will be helped in U49), then running back and forth refreshing the "treasure" site, and getting a bunch of decon junk 95%+ of the time. Not to mention the dry streaks that players are seeing: 25 - 150+ maps of nothing but junk.

As shown here, I'd literally rather sit in one spot and kill the same boss all day – crucially: to get multiple of the item I like – than do Maps at all.

What I do find fun:
Going to the NPC housing vendors, buying the items I want with gold, and then spending my time doing creative projects in Housing.

"So you just want everything for free" is a common retort – But at no point is any of it free. I paid for the DLC with real money, I've paid for ESO+ with real money. Items are obtained via achievements and with gold gotten by playing the game, doing things I found at least somewhat enjoyable. But yes, I would like the stuff without a boring middle system to grind through to get it. And no, I don't care a single iota about MMO conventions; I'm certain that more fun and interesting systems can supplant this.

So at the very least, if we have to have housing items stuck in Maps, let it be over quickly. If there's players out there who enjoy doing this organically, waiting for the Map to drop, finding the site without any addons, etc. – nobody's stopping that, it's a choice. But as it stands, we who dislike this have no other choice to get some of these items, and don't want our chief gameplay hindered by this system.

@MoonPile Why hide this?!?!? We need to be candid and complete with our complements and complaints if we are ever to see meaningful change. Housers generally have been far too quiet and complacent with their criticism of the game. I believe that's part of the reason we find ourselves in the abhorrent situation with treasure maps and furnishing leads.

** @MoonPile makes several points that should absolutely not be ignored. Here are ones that resonated with me as a player:

Relying on add-ons to find rare treasure maps and hunting them down is not fun, especially with low drop rates and long "dry streaks."
What is fun is "buying the items I want with gold, and then spending my time doing creative projects in Housing."
Obtaining furnishings "without a boring middle system to grind through to get it" should become the norm and not the exception.

**Edited to correct player reference name.

BretonMage · February 27

MidnightDuel wrote: »

Green and blue furnishing leads began dropping from treasure maps when Necrom launched. That was the return of certain antiquity furnishings not being able to be purchased with gold after completing the codex. When players complained about the Mushroom Classification Book (originally a "green" furnishing) and Cliff Strider Skeleton Stand (originally a "blue" furnishing) not being available for gold, the items were changed to "purple" quality and added to the Necrom Achievement vendor.

I didn't know that about those two furnishings being moved to purple quality. It honestly makes zero sense that a green or blue quality furnishing would effectively be rarer than a purple quality one, by virtue of being unable to purchase it after codex completion. It's absolutely mind-boggling if intentional.

MoonPile · February 27

MidnightDuel wrote: »

MoonPile wrote: »

(TL;DR: I'm in a bad mood and hate maps. Feel free to ignore this.)
Happy for people who somehow enjoy Treasure Maps. I can't speak for all Housers, but personally, I find Maps to be one of the most boring systems in the game.

There is nothing I find interesting about scouring TTC for the cheapest maps, running to try to buy them before they're gone, scouring TTC some more, then trying to organize them in inventory (at least that will be helped in U49), then running back and forth refreshing the "treasure" site, and getting a bunch of decon junk 95%+ of the time. Not to mention the dry streaks that players are seeing: 25 - 150+ maps of nothing but junk.

As shown here, I'd literally rather sit in one spot and kill the same boss all day – crucially: to get multiple of the item I like – than do Maps at all.

What I do find fun:
Going to the NPC housing vendors, buying the items I want with gold, and then spending my time doing creative projects in Housing.

"So you just want everything for free" is a common retort – But at no point is any of it free. I paid for the DLC with real money, I've paid for ESO+ with real money. Items are obtained via achievements and with gold gotten by playing the game, doing things I found at least somewhat enjoyable. But yes, I would like the stuff without a boring middle system to grind through to get it. And no, I don't care a single iota about MMO conventions; I'm certain that more fun and interesting systems can supplant this.

So at the very least, if we have to have housing items stuck in Maps, let it be over quickly. If there's players out there who enjoy doing this organically, waiting for the Map to drop, finding the site without any addons, etc. – nobody's stopping that, it's a choice. But as it stands, we who dislike this have no other choice to get some of these items, and don't want our chief gameplay hindered by this system.

@MoonPile Why hide this?!?!? We need to be candid and complete with our complements and complaints if we are ever to see meaningful change. Housers generally have been far too quiet and complacent with their criticism of the game. I believe that's part of the reason we find ourselves in the abhorrent situation with treasure maps and furnishing leads.

@MoonPile makes several points that should absolutely not be ignored. Here are ones that resonated with me as a player:
Relying on add-ons to find rare treasure maps and hunting them down is not fun, especially with low drop rates and long "dry streaks."

What is fun is "buying the items I want with gold, and then spending my time doing creative projects in Housing."

Obtaining furnishings "without a boring middle system to grind through to get it" should become the norm and not the exception.

Hah, the reason: I was just ranting at that point, and well aware of it.

And personally I've been one of the few taking up a torch and leading the charge on this for a long time.

(Related: one of the reasons I said "unintentional" above is because of what I learned directly from the Devs. Likewise, what I learned helped organize this post and our survey. So I will also respectfully disagree – except to the degree that different Dev teams may have different goals; internal disagreement we are not privy to is always possible.)

I've candidly said all this before in various ways and places. Regardless of my dislike of Maps, I still recognize someone put work into this system, who may or may not still be on the team, and that some players like it. I wouldn't want to call for the death of something others enjoy. I only hope for reciprocity in such recognition: It's a means to an end for many of us in Housing; the journey is far less interesting than the destination in this case. For us it's just about obtaining the pigments for our palettes. In short, I'm sure there's an amicable solution for all (although yeah my more villainous (/honest?) side would throw the whole thing in the bin and set it on fire 😂 ...edit: distracted, typing all this btwn dying to WBs).

P.S. Edited the @ in your quote because Moonpie is a different user who might've received confusing notifications

.

MidnightDuel · 5:36AM

Firstly, thank you @MoonPile for catching my error in attribution. (I edited my previous post to correct.) Also, thank you for organizing the player survey regarding Treasure Map Leads. Are there plans to publish a summary report of the results at some point?

Secondly, thanks to all those who have posted in this thread and elsewhere regarding a desire to see positive changes in housing and housing-related activities, which includes Antiquities and furnishing collection

While I've been playing since launch and submitting feedback in-game and through other channels for years, I previously avoided the forums. When I finally decided to engage in the forums, it took quite some doing to get my forum user ID reinstated. While I am relatively new to this forum space, I am keenly aware of challenges and hurdles ESO players encounter when housing is the primary focus of game play.

Finally, I recognize that there have been significant changes to the development team, both in senior leadership and the team that is now focused on housing. I also respect that not everything that players consider housing-related is under the exclusive control of the housing Devs. I'm also cognizant of the long development cycles that go into this huge and complex online game. My hope is that our feedback helps to correct current player pain points while helping to positively shape the direction of ESO Player Housing for years to come.

MoonPile · 8:33PM

For anyone who may have missed it within the prior 5(!) pages of this discussion, the relevant poll now has its own post in the Systems section:

[HOUSING & ANTIQUITIES] External Poll: Treasure-Map Antiquity Leads

MoonPile wrote: »

The Real Endgame (a large ESO Housing community on Discord) is collecting player feedback on Treasure Map Leads for Antiquity furnishings, specifically from a Housing perspective.

✅ 10 quick questions
✅ Anonymous (no email collected, your ESO @UserID won’t be shared)
⚠️ Once submitted, you can’t edit your answers

📊📝 The Poll: https://forms.gle/Yx4D6gqzKf4Lzvc47 📝📊

Please take a minute to fill it out and share the poll with your friends so we get as many responses as possible! 🙏

We’ll post the results on the official forums (here in the Game Systems section) and The Real Endgame Discord server as soon as we get enough participation!

Big thanks to @Lilarna, Rhiwiel, @MoonPile and @onyxorb for helping build this poll!

For more context, here is a compilation of data so far – including some from players' posts within this same thread:
https://moonpile.tumblr.com/post/808642600457338880/info-treasure-map-antiquities-leads-02-2026