tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

This is clearly a thorny issue for them to fix directly and suddenly. I would have a lot to parse through, investigate, and decide on if I were in their shoes.

That said, some easy changes to prevent botting, spam, and peer pressure that players may like to hear being considered would be:

- If you decline a direct guild invite (not because of full guilds), further invites from the same guild should be blocked for a week/month, like the duel declining feature
- To prevent bots and botting behavior, an account should be one month old before it can send guild invites, maybe two weeks
- Guild Invite spam should be added as a report category (and the account blocked from directly inviting anyone for a while if they get too many)
- Direct guild invites should have a daily limit per account
- Forcing guild members to invite people or recruit should be against the ToS (to prevent pyramid scheme behavior lol). I doubt this would lead to many reports, but would give staff something to lean on while actioning people

That's more complicated than it needs to be.

Simply give players the option to toggle/disable guild invites just like duel and ToT invites. Done.

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

This is clearly a thorny issue for them to fix directly and suddenly. I would have a lot to parse through, investigate, and decide on if I were in their shoes.

That said, some easy changes to prevent botting, spam, and peer pressure that players may like to hear being considered would be:

- If you decline a direct guild invite (not because of full guilds), further invites from the same guild should be blocked for a week/month, like the duel declining feature
- To prevent bots and botting behavior, an account should be one month old before it can send guild invites, maybe two weeks
- Guild Invite spam should be added as a report category (and the account blocked from directly inviting anyone for a while if they get too many)
- Direct guild invites should have a daily limit per account
- Forcing guild members to invite people or recruit should be against the ToS (to prevent pyramid scheme behavior lol). I doubt this would lead to many reports, but would give staff something to lean on while actioning people

Perhaps players could have an option to block ALL guild invites. That would not only take care of this issue but would clean up the chat for those that use it for more than advertisement.

Hi, everyone. I am the GM.

The player in the screenshot is not a bot. At the time of the screenshot, he was actively having a conversation with guild members. It is a player that can be online more than most of us, but high availability on the game doesn't mean someone is a bot.

We forbid staff members the use of automation. When staff asks, "how do you do it?" our response is "You don't. Don't even try." We allow ESO’s native addon system, but explicitly forbid external automation, scripts, or macros. Anyone choosing to do that would be acting against leadership direction and internal staff rules.

We have not received disciplinary actions related to the recruitment methods discussed here. Changes in the accounts doing the recruitment reflect different staff members recruiting, not replacement of accounts. There is no "ban evading" going on.

That said, the fact that a player above was able to get multiple invites is unacceptable. Within about a minute of me seeing that post, I directed the guild staff to cease use of the addon so we can figure out how that was able to occur and ensure it cannot continue.
I recognize I said this in a prior thread. When we later allowed the addon to resume use, we believed the ability for duplicate invites to have been fixed. It's clear further adjustment is needed, and I apologize for any annoyance that has been made during the time.

Our standard for invites is:
One invite -> Okay.
Two invites -> Not okay.
Invites after someone requests them to stop -> Absolutely not okay.
We have previously removed staff from our team for failing to respect this, and we will continue to enforce it.

Some background on the way that the addon works:
The addon creates a GUI that displays the target's name, when they were last invited, and a hotkey to invite them to the guild.
It has multiple internal safeguards to prevent spamming and repeated invites such as:

• Cooldowns after each invite for the sender.
• Cooldowns after each invite for the guild being recruited for.
• Checks for prior invites - Anyone that has had a past invite should be getting blocked from future invites, and all guilds share one database.
• Lifetime limits on how many times an account can receive an invite, including manual invites, with all guilds sharing one database.
• Respect for a "No Invite List", a list that staff members can manually add players to.
• Respect for the in-game guild Blacklist, which will stop invites from being sent to a player.

On top of this, when a member verbally refuses or asks to stop getting invites - invites need to stop. If they continue beyond that point, it's absolutely not okay.
Lastly, we have multiple restrictions on staff members attempting to recruit to further mitigate risk of player annoyance.




All of this said, repeated invites, especially after a request for them to stop, is unacceptable.
If a player isn't interested, they need to be left alone.
And for the record, I do agree a native "auto decline" option is a good idea.

Chance_25 wrote: »

Hi, everyone. I am the GM.

The player in the screenshot is not a bot. At the time of the screenshot, he was actively having a conversation with guild members. It is a player that can be online more than most of us, but high availability on the game doesn't mean someone is a bot.

We forbid staff members the use of automation. When staff asks, "how do you do it?" our response is "You don't. Don't even try." We allow ESO’s native addon system, but explicitly forbid external automation, scripts, or macros. Anyone choosing to do that would be acting against leadership direction and internal staff rules.

That said, the fact that a player above was able to get multiple invites is unacceptable. Within about a minute of me seeing that post, I directed the guild staff to cease use of the addon so we can figure out how that was able to occur and ensure it cannot continue.
I recognize I said this in a prior thread. When we later allowed the addon to resume use, we believed the ability for duplicate invites to have been fixed. It's clear further adjustment is needed, and I apologize for any annoyance that has been made during the time.

Our standard for invites is:
One invite -> Okay.
Two invites -> Not okay.
Invites after someone requests them to stop -> Absolutely not okay.
We have previously removed staff from our team for failing to respect this, and we will continue to enforce it.

Some background on the way that the addon works:
The addon creates a GUI that displays the target's name, when they were last invited, and a hotkey to invite them to the guild.
It has multiple internal safeguards to prevent spamming and repeated invites such as:

• Cooldowns after each invite for the sender.
• Cooldowns after each invite for the guild being recruited for.
• Checks for prior invites - Anyone that has had a past invite should be getting blocked from future invites, and all guilds share one database.
• Lifetime limits on how many times an account can receive an invite, including manual invites, with all guilds sharing one database.
• Respect for a "No Invite List", a list that staff members can manually add players to.
• Respect for the in-game guild Blacklist, which will stop invites from being sent to a player.

On top of this, when a member verbally refuses or asks to stop getting invites - invites need to stop. If they continue beyond that point, it's absolutely not okay.
Lastly, we have multiple restrictions on staff members attempting to recruit to further mitigate risk of player annoyance.




All of this said, repeated invites, especially after a request for them to stop, is unacceptable.
If a player isn't interested, they need to be left alone.
And for the record, I do agree a native "auto decline" option is a good idea.

Or just stop harassing people!!! List your guild and be done with it. It’s harassment. Plain and simple… this makes me think of spam telemarketers callers.

Oh great he's back with more PR speak. How about just do what every other guild does and invite normally? Also that player last night was a brand new account with a character fresh out of the tutorial!

Why use an alt? Because they know that what they're doing is wrong.

Chance_25 wrote: »

Hi, everyone. I am the GM.

The player in the screenshot is not a bot. At the time of the screenshot, he was actively having a conversation with guild members. It is a player that can be online more than most of us, but high availability on the game doesn't mean someone is a bot.

We forbid staff members the use of automation. When staff asks, "how do you do it?" our response is "You don't. Don't even try." We allow ESO’s native addon system, but explicitly forbid external automation, scripts, or macros. Anyone choosing to do that would be acting against leadership direction and internal staff rules.

That said, the fact that a player above was able to get multiple invites is unacceptable. Within about a minute of me seeing that post, I directed the guild staff to cease use of the addon so we can figure out how that was able to occur and ensure it cannot continue.
I recognize I said this in a prior thread. When we later allowed the addon to resume use, we believed the ability for duplicate invites to have been fixed. It's clear further adjustment is needed, and I apologize for any annoyance that has been made during the time.

Our standard for invites is:
One invite -> Okay.
Two invites -> Not okay.
Invites after someone requests them to stop -> Absolutely not okay.
We have previously removed staff from our team for failing to respect this, and we will continue to enforce it.

Some background on the way that the addon works:
The addon creates a GUI that displays the target's name, when they were last invited, and a hotkey to invite them to the guild.
It has multiple internal safeguards to prevent spamming and repeated invites such as:

• Cooldowns after each invite for the sender.
• Cooldowns after each invite for the guild being recruited for.
• Checks for prior invites - Anyone that has had a past invite should be getting blocked from future invites, and all guilds share one database.
• Lifetime limits on how many times an account can receive an invite, including manual invites, with all guilds sharing one database.
• Respect for a "No Invite List", a list that staff members can manually add players to.
• Respect for the in-game guild Blacklist, which will stop invites from being sent to a player.

On top of this, when a member verbally refuses or asks to stop getting invites - invites need to stop. If they continue beyond that point, it's absolutely not okay.
Lastly, we have multiple restrictions on staff members attempting to recruit to further mitigate risk of player annoyance.




All of this said, repeated invites, especially after a request for them to stop, is unacceptable.
If a player isn't interested, they need to be left alone.
And for the record, I do agree a native "auto decline" option is a good idea.

I have seen that person sit in a corner for literally hours spamming invites. There is zero chance any human being can sit there for that long and press V to invite or whatever you say. There is clearly automation happening whether you know about it or not.

And that person's accounts have been banned in the past, yet they keep ban evading and spamming people. No one wants to deal with this! Stop being a burden on the community!!

We won't stop making these threads until your guilds stop harassing others. Even if they add an option to auto decline I will personally report every single one of those "bots" that still do it.

Even if none of them are bots, I feel bad for the people who are spending hours and hours just inviting people. They should be playing the game. Or a different game. Or going for a walk. Or cleaning. Or anything other than wasting what will total to weeks of their lives just on inviting people.

What is a Staff Member in the context of an eso guild? It’s not a company. How odd to me.

Also what do you get out of having people spend hours of their lives spamming invites? What is the point if what must be a revolving door of people not really interested.

Being annoying has to be doing more harm than good.

Chance_25 wrote: »

That said, the fact that a player above was able to get multiple invites is unacceptable. Within about a minute of me seeing that post, I directed the guild staff to cease use of the addon so we can figure out how that was able to occur and ensure it cannot continue.

I think it'd be best if you instructed your guild to stop randomly inviting people. It's clearly unwanted.

Chance_25 wrote: »

All of this said, repeated invites, especially after a request for them to stop, is unacceptable.
If a player isn't interested, they need to be left alone.
And for the record, I do agree a native "auto decline" option is a good idea.

Even the random invites, to this degree, is unacceptable. The game gives us a guild listing feature. Use it. Let people come to you or invite people organically as you meet them. I don't see why people need to be invited the moment they come into a zone. That's not building a community; seems more like harassment and spam than anything else.

How many times is "oops, technical error with our tool, so sorry, we'll stop using the tool while we sort this out" an acceptable excuse?

Edit to clarify: yes, I am being snarky, and no, I do not believe for a second that this "excuse" is being made in good faith.

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

For the life of me, I can't figure out why ZOS won't just add an auto-reject guild invites option. There haven't been many wins for them in the last year, take an easy one.

This would be a great start but they still need to enforce their own Code of Conduct, too.

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

What is a Staff Member in the context of an eso guild? It’s not a company. How odd to me.

Also what do you get out of having people spend hours of their lives spamming invites? What is the point if what must be a revolving door of people not really interested.

Being annoying has to be doing more harm than good.

I'm assuming they mean an 'officer', which is the term the game uses:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Guilds

Thanks - it just seemed like an odd choice to me. Do they advertise to or make money somewhere off game having more guild members? I guess I don’t understand the mentality of invite spammers and what they get out of having an endless stream of completely random people join them.

SilverBride wrote: »

Here is what I don't understand. They know this is causing distress to other players. They know it is damaging their reputation. Why keep doing it?

I hope it’s a good reason. I have seen baby guilds try this not realizing how annoying it can be to others since they are trying to get off the ground, but usually it’s they don’t realize that and stop after being told.

Here this GM is getting widespread feedback and posts here the intention to keep doing it anyway.

For me, the simplest solution to avoid getting the spammed invites was to join a fifth guild so I don't have an open guild slot. This was after repeatedly joining their various guilds and getting kicked for failing to meet their mandatory requirements. But I think it would be much better if there were a user setting to automatically decline guild invites.

I do wonder why they need to spam unsolicited invites in the first place. If it's to keep their guild membership numbers up due to high turnaround, then it's curious why they would create such a high turnaround in the first place, given that (based on my own experiences) the guild itself is kicking members for some reason or other-- in my multiple cases, for failing to join their mandated Discord server, then (on subsequent occasions, after joining their Discord server) for failing to post often enough in specific channels of their Discord server. It wasn't as though I'd done something wrong in the game-- it was all about Discord. So I find myself wondering whether they're getting something out of Discord that's based on their number of Discord users or something like that. Note that being kicked from their guilds in the game didn't remove me from their Discord server, so it seems like the whole thing is aimed at inflating the number of Discord users who have joined their Discord server.

Carcamongus wrote: »

Chance_25 wrote: »

Hi, everyone. I am the GM.

The player in the screenshot is not a bot. At the time of the screenshot, he was actively having a conversation with guild members. It is a player that can be online more than most of us, but high availability on the game doesn't mean someone is a bot.

We forbid staff members the use of automation. When staff asks, "how do you do it?" our response is "You don't. Don't even try." We allow ESO’s native addon system, but explicitly forbid external automation, scripts, or macros. Anyone choosing to do that would be acting against leadership direction and internal staff rules.

That said, the fact that a player above was able to get multiple invites is unacceptable. Within about a minute of me seeing that post, I directed the guild staff to cease use of the addon so we can figure out how that was able to occur and ensure it cannot continue.
I recognize I said this in a prior thread. When we later allowed the addon to resume use, we believed the ability for duplicate invites to have been fixed. It's clear further adjustment is needed, and I apologize for any annoyance that has been made during the time.

Our standard for invites is:
One invite -> Okay.
Two invites -> Not okay.
Invites after someone requests them to stop -> Absolutely not okay.
We have previously removed staff from our team for failing to respect this, and we will continue to enforce it.

Some background on the way that the addon works:
The addon creates a GUI that displays the target's name, when they were last invited, and a hotkey to invite them to the guild.
It has multiple internal safeguards to prevent spamming and repeated invites such as:

• Cooldowns after each invite for the sender.
• Cooldowns after each invite for the guild being recruited for.
• Checks for prior invites - Anyone that has had a past invite should be getting blocked from future invites, and all guilds share one database.
• Lifetime limits on how many times an account can receive an invite, including manual invites, with all guilds sharing one database.
• Respect for a "No Invite List", a list that staff members can manually add players to.
• Respect for the in-game guild Blacklist, which will stop invites from being sent to a player.

On top of this, when a member verbally refuses or asks to stop getting invites - invites need to stop. If they continue beyond that point, it's absolutely not okay.
Lastly, we have multiple restrictions on staff members attempting to recruit to further mitigate risk of player annoyance.




All of this said, repeated invites, especially after a request for them to stop, is unacceptable.
If a player isn't interested, they need to be left alone.
And for the record, I do agree a native "auto decline" option is a good idea.

So what about this thread makes you think this is about your guild? Is your guild doing what has been mentioned in the thread?