YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

This is like a known strategy by those that use it and it 1000% should be considered an exploit with actionable repercussions. I started recording immediately afterward to collect clips for Report tickets.

YG, you know my fondness for your input, so hopefully you understand that this is a legitimate inquiry on my part:

How is that ANY different than the bevy of folks out there using Warden Charm in either Ballgroups with their pulls or small Comp Groups doing the tower/box circling (can't use the real word), knowing full well it can send people into walls or floors?

I have zero issue with a legitimate correction being made, but Warden Charm's bugs are a FAR (FAAAAAAAAR!) more encompassing issue than the one being described here with Shield Throw, yet this one got green text and the much more frequently voiced one didn't. That's... not right.

In addition, it's worth noting that the Shield Throw Knockback only seems problematic when coupled with heavy server strain. Can't IMAGINE where that comes from, right?

(EDIT: Drinking makes grammar stoopid, and I thought of something else.)

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

The_Meathead wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

This is like a known strategy by those that use it and it 1000% should be considered an exploit with actionable repercussions. I started recording immediately afterward to collect clips for Report tickets.

YG, you know my fondness for your input, so hopefully you understand that this is a legitimate inquiry on my part:

How is that ANY different than the bevy of folks out there using Warden Charm in either Ballgroups with their pulls or small Comp Groups doing the tower/box circling (can't use the real word), knowing full well it can send people into walls or floors?

I have zero issue with a correction being made, but that's a FAR (FAAAAAAAAR!) more encompassing issue than the one being describe here, yet this one got green text. That's... not right.

As I value yours.

I do not disagree with you at all that Charm is a buggy and ridonk overpowered scourge that absolutely should be either removed or given the "against monsters" treatment. Ditto for Rush applying proper CC. I think that fair-minded folk can unite around these all being highly problematic.

We did receive some green text, though, in those threads indicating that it is on their radar for the U50 Warden cycle, so likely all of these issues are on pace to change in the short-term. Which is a huge dub for Cyro.

My main point in this thread was that this IS a legit issue and that folk are utilizing it specifically FOR the de-sync potential. It isn't just rumors or honest mistakes. It happens to real people by actors who know what they are doing.

Fair enough. I did an edit to my previous post before I saw this one that I'll leave standing, but you're always appreciated.

I'm all for cleaning up ALL garbo that plagues us. I just don't wanna see a favoritism on the already heavily favored party.

So... I'm a Shield Throw aficionado, and this thread really had me curious.

I went and grabbed a pal and we both put Shield Throw + Knockback (first time I've ever used the script despite a year+ of using the ability every day) on our bars and found a spot in Cyrodiil to square off and look like something out of the Three Stooges as we just slapped the heck out of each other.

No de-sync.

None.

Does that prove it doesn't exist for others? Of course not! I have a very good connection, we were way off in the middle of nowhere on a non-GH Campaign, and I didn't see a single other player the whole time we were doing this. Heck, maybe it's a Console thing and I'm on PC, I dunno?

But maybe, just maybe - it's only occurring in situations where the Server is already being strained by a huge amount by, oh, I dunno, say... Ballgroups.

That absolutely makes me less sympathetic, and it certainly wouldn't be the only ability that might perform drastically differently in such a moment - just the one that's giving Ballgroups trouble. Very little sympathy indeed, given how much that playstyle impacts gameplay and performance for everyone else.

Radiate77 wrote: »

The_Meathead wrote: »

So... I'm a Shield Throw aficionado, and this thread really had me curious.

I went and grabbed a pal and we both put Shield Throw + Knockback (first time I've ever used the script despite a year+ of using the ability every day) on our bars and found a spot in Cyrodiil to square off and look like something out of the Three Stooges as we just slapped the heck out of each other.

No de-sync.

None.

Does that prove it doesn't exist for others? Of course not! I have a very good connection, we were way off in the middle of nowhere on a non-GH Campaign, and I didn't see a single other player the whole time we were doing this. Heck, maybe it's a Console thing and I'm on PC, I dunno?

But maybe, just maybe - it's only occurring in situations where the Server is already being strained by a huge amount by, oh, I dunno, say... Ballgroups.

That absolutely makes me less sympathetic, and it certainly wouldn't be the only ability that might perform drastically differently in such a moment - just the one that's giving Ballgroups trouble. Very little sympathy indeed, given how much that playstyle impacts gameplay and performance for everyone else.

Did you happen to record both screens? Might be worth splicing both videos left & right so people can see health bars failing to desync for both players.

I didn't. I've never recorded a thing in any game and was just testing it for my own peace of mind and curiosity. I felt like mentioning what I saw, but I definitely understand why visual evidence is a priority even in a discussion like this - and certainly for sending to the Devs.

Someone with more familiarity and tech savvy could reproduce it easily enough, I'm sure, or even do what you're asking with the spliced screens. Not a bad idea, at all.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

The_Meathead wrote: »

So... I'm a Shield Throw aficionado, and this thread really had me curious.

I went and grabbed a pal and we both put Shield Throw + Knockback (first time I've ever used the script despite a year+ of using the ability every day) on our bars and found a spot in Cyrodiil to square off and look like something out of the Three Stooges as we just slapped the heck out of each other.

No de-sync.

None.

Does that prove it doesn't exist for others? Of course not! I have a very good connection, we were way off in the middle of nowhere on a non-GH Campaign, and I didn't see a single other player the whole time we were doing this. Heck, maybe it's a Console thing and I'm on PC, I dunno?

But maybe, just maybe - it's only occurring in situations where the Server is already being strained by a huge amount by, oh, I dunno, say... Ballgroups.

That absolutely makes me less sympathetic, and it certainly wouldn't be the only ability that might perform drastically differently in such a moment - just the one that's giving Ballgroups trouble. Very little sympathy indeed, given how much that playstyle impacts gameplay and performance for everyone else.

It's a real bad take to dismiss something simply because it doesn't affect you.

There are also plenty of non-ballgroup players in this and other threads reporting the impact when they get Xv1'd by zergs spamming this skill. And zooming even farther out, that movement-displacement abilities are fundamentally broken and extremely prone to causing this sort of thing.

Basically everyone in Cyrodiil knows how effective these intentional de-sync strats are. It's the same situation as years ago when Poison Injection did the same thing and then every ganker flocked to it for easy kills on defenseless targets.

I think it's precisely that there are so many existing abilities that get squirrely during heavy strain moments -when Ballgroups are present- that I feel the way I do. This one getting called out because it's particularly impactful to/against the same folks who strain the server the most just feels like a bit of reaping what one sows, if it's indeed happening in the way that's stated. (For the record, I do believe it probably is at times in those scenarios. It did not in my totally isolated little session of trying to reproduce it, but as I said - that's not the same at all, obviously.)

Charm (for a recent mention) definitely gets wonky in similar moments, Ultimates refuse to fire off, Leap and Meteor have been notorious for going on a decade now, Javelin does its thing, and a bunch of other sets that involve pulls or movement all act differently or buggy - and that includes a lot of the most standard Ballgroup pull methods/stack that are part of almost every interaction with them. Are those being addressed? They've been around a lot longer.

So yeah, I don't doubt that Shield Throw Knockback might do weird things in bad server strain, but - who's straining the server, and why isn't that the real issue? Even more, why would their issue get priority response? If I'm being too subtle, I absolutely mean that Ballgroups strain the server disproportionately.

Does that mean this Script shouldn't be seriously looked over by ZOS? No, but it does mean it belongs on a list with a lot of other similar things that haven't been corrected for years and years. The priority is what I'm calling out.

Its amazing how many people I've seen running shield throw knockback since this thread was made, who weren't before. I'm sure it is entirely coincidental and they didn't swap to it instead of spamming javelin because the thread told them its a more effective way to deliberately desync people.

The_Meathead wrote: »

So... I'm a Shield Throw aficionado, and this thread really had me curious.

I went and grabbed a pal and we both put Shield Throw + Knockback (first time I've ever used the script despite a year+ of using the ability every day) on our bars and found a spot in Cyrodiil to square off and look like something out of the Three Stooges as we just slapped the heck out of each other.

No de-sync.

None.

Does that prove it doesn't exist for others? Of course not! I have a very good connection, we were way off in the middle of nowhere on a non-GH Campaign, and I didn't see a single other player the whole time we were doing this. Heck, maybe it's a Console thing and I'm on PC, I dunno?

But maybe, just maybe - it's only occurring in situations where the Server is already being strained by a huge amount by, oh, I dunno, say... Ballgroups.

That absolutely makes me less sympathetic, and it certainly wouldn't be the only ability that might perform drastically differently in such a moment - just the one that's giving Ballgroups trouble. Very little sympathy indeed, given how much that playstyle impacts gameplay and performance for everyone else.

I play in a ballgroup, but we don't do this stuff. Not one of us has shield throw - we used our flex slot for other utility scribing skills (not charm since most of us are not warden base). And we only run in a group of 12.

I think the ball groups you are referring to are those groups who seem to run in groups of 20+, at which point, you're not ball grouping anymore - you're comped- zerging, which is an entirely different issue.

The_Meathead wrote: »

I plan to use Shield Throw Knockback a whole lot this week in PvP, and to see how it performs in various scenarios both in Cyrodiil and in Battlegrounds.

If I see it causing De-Sync or strange issues for those I'm hitting, I will absolutely come back here and own it in full.

I've never noticed it in Cyrodiil or even seen others complaining about it in Zone chat, and as I mentioned in a previous post, I'm a Bash Build who definitely looks for the shield throw animation out of that whole strange build-pride thing we all carry. I've never used Knockback on my Shield Throw either, but I'm about to - and I'll come back and "eat my hat" if deserved.

I can tell you for real that this causes problems regardless of server strain, and it just seems kinda random when it will do it. I was in a fight late last week (I think Thursday night) - not a huge fight, maybe a dozen yellows and blues at the same keep. I spawn at a camp, and there is only one AD behind me. I'm a healer so I don't engage him alone - I drop to the ground and run to the inner door which is open so I can take a short cut to my teammates. The AD behind me basically spammed shield toss at me and I got locked down in a permanent stun mere feet from the inner door. Couldn't break free, couldn't roll out of it, still had most of my stam and mag. And despite this, I couldn't take one single action to save my own life.

It is not going to be every time you throw the shield. But even if it is a 5% chance that any given shield toss will lock you down like that - if you have 10 of these things being tossed at you, you are almost guaranteed to suffer SOME kind of issue - which issue is going to give a decisive advantage to your opponent(s). It's just that simple.

Even if this only happens 5-10% of the time, it is large enough of an issue that they should just disable the skill while they take a look. For them to allow this ability to persist and be used as is even though they have information showing that it is a problem - even if it is a problem in a small number of situations - if they don't do something, then everyone bandwagons on it and it becomes a MAJOR issue.

This is why they need to act WAY earlier than they do. So many people bandwagoning on the latest cheese/exploit that will give them an advantage. Because they see 1-2 people doing it without repurcussions, so then they all do it. Then the problem grows.