DK poison damage was just morphs of two ardent flame skills. It would be much more shocking if they took ice or plants away from warden, since those are the themes of entire skill lines. I'd love to see the animal companions and winters embrace buff each other the way DK skill lines in the rework are interacting

Yudo wrote: »

Not particularly happy with he channeling meta, but in the balance of things I would hope there will be class cleave spammable for sorcs. As a pure class I am still struggle to clear trash packs while everyone is channeling, and not necessarily more powerful single target.

This was the one thing that made me want a class change token, which they turned into multi/subclassing. And I was excited for it because I just finally wanted some way to deal good aoe damage as a sorc. Especially after they got rid of the frags spammable. It made IA and solo content a slog since much of a sorcs kit focuses on just one target most of the time. Yet in theory they were almost meant to deal with crowds since they have pets and so many CC abilities.

Yudo wrote: »

Not particularly happy with he channeling meta, but in the balance of things I would hope there will be class cleave spammable for sorcs. As a pure class I am still struggle to clear trash packs while everyone is channeling, and not necessarily more powerful single target.

If ZOS isn't cooking on a Chain Lightning beam/AOE spammable for the Sorcerer refresh then they're doing it wrong.

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Yudo wrote: »

Not particularly happy with he channeling meta, but in the balance of things I would hope there will be class cleave spammable for sorcs. As a pure class I am still struggle to clear trash packs while everyone is channeling, and not necessarily more powerful single target.

If ZOS isn't cooking on a Chain Lightning beam/AOE spammable for the Sorcerer refresh then they're doing it wrong.

I absolutely had the same thought! Though hopefully not as loud/headache inducing as the overload HA

"KSSSHHHHRGGGGGHHRHRRRGGSSSH" while doing damage at a jumpy one tic per second

Having poison damage on DK always made no sense to me, how does a class that specializes in fire have poison abilities? I think they did a great job with the DK refresh. When i picture a warden, i see a guardian of nature, and i think a refresh will be easy while keeping all 3 lines how they are.
Animal companions - calling upon nature's companions to help defend her. Spring/summer/fall
-physical and bleed damage

Green balance - calling upon plant life to defend mother nature spring/summer
-poison damage? Change a morph of vines into poison ivy where attacked will get poisoned


Winters embrace - wielding the most lethal of seasons to defend mother nature
Fall/winter


I think this is the class identity its just synergizing it all.

Cominfordatoothbrush wrote: »

I'm all for sorc getting some cleave, even in the form of a channel, but I really hope the plan is not to just give every class a themed beam

If we're talking about a class that deserves a beam skill, it's definitely Sorc.
In fact, Sorc is the class that should be channeling the beam。In TES5, the Master Lightning Destruction spell is a bigggg beam.

Honestly I am so worried about what's going to happen with these two reworks in particular. I main a warden and I love clannfear, which I worry will get lost as it doesn't have a skill style. I don't agree with what a lot of other people view as the identity of certain classes and I think removing certain aspects for some idea of class identity is eh. Streamers complain a lot and are vocal enough to get seen and heard by devs, it feels like a lot of call for identity is from them.

I like the class lines as is, I like subclassing and the roleplay combos I can have, like a dk with stormcalling and winter's embrace, boom Avatar. Herald, Embrace and storm, look ma I'm a pirate. Daedric summoning with clannfear, ardent flame, and dawn's, a keeper of sun dragons. The only real problem is with all these combos, you're unlikely to finish hard mode content, or do very well in pvp, and that's when people complain that everything feels the same, and there's no identity. There's no multiple options for end game dps, it's herald, assassination and a templar line for dps. But this game isn't just end game pvers and pvpers, and I'm hoping the rest of us don't lose what we love because of this.

Judging by how Devs are changing skills of DK I doubt that some skills will be completely changed like lightning spells\pets removal.

But still, what I hope to see is:

- Sorc:

Lightning:
1. Chain lightning as a great main aoe
2. Single target channeled lightning from both hands to Palpatine our enemies, maybe with slow during channeling and stun at the end of channeling, or smth like stacking debuff from lightning spells which slow at first and electrocute at the end, stunning target for a bit, maybe applying fire dot during channeling.
3. Defensive buff which no longer makes us transparent

Summons:
1. invisible in town.
2. Scamps to morph into Scamp with a group(~7-9) of small banekin (ideally a bit different looking) and upon activation 1-2 of Banekin jumps\run to explode near target or morphs into Clanfear\Daedroth or Spider Daedra
3. Matriarch replaced by Fire Atronach, morphs into Coldharbour Atronach or Ice Atronach or stronger Fire Atro
4. Buff\Def buff(?). Passive buffs will affect how summons work: amplifies all summons or allow to use only 1 summon but makes it much, much more stronger.

- Warden:

Warden is weird.
Arrived with Morrowind, lots of skills inspired by Morrowind like Netch, Cliffracer, Bugs, Fungus but then Bear pops up and then Frost, like what? Merging north theme with vvardenfell?

Frost theme and bear I like, but north theme just mix horribly with other Warden skill lines.

To me it doesn't feel right when I got Bear, frost magic and...Netch...with laser beam...which doesn't even change form, just a straight line, always there, why it doesn't disappear after 1 sec?
Wouldn't Raven be a better match for Bear\frost skills? Or Wolf as perma pet instead of Cliffracer we barely see for 1 sec? Or some icy spikes from the ground instead of bugs?

Imo Warden is a mess, I hope for a complete rework towards Druidic\ Celtic theme.

exoib wrote: »

Agree completely, some of these skill lines should be reconsidered, leave the dark magic to nightblades or frost to necromancers for example.

However, according to the previously announced Class Identity Refresh, Dark Magic has been confirmed as part of the Sorc skill set. If the Dark and Shadow themes are to be moved entirely to NB, I think the ideal scenario would be to merge Dark Magic with Daedric Summoning and rename it a new skill line called Oblivion Power. This would condense the Sorc theme and create a blank skill line to fill any gaps in Sorc's roster.

Alternatively, merging Dark Magic with Storm Calling and renaming it Destructive Storm would also condense the theme and maximize Sorc's shock damage.

Vindold wrote: »

exoib wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

I suspect these two classes are the most divergent in ESO. They're strong in PvP but extremely weak in PvE. In previous PvE rankings of skill lines, even their most popular skill line, even doubled, still lags far behind other classes' popular skill lines.

Furthermore, pets are a major drag on their performance, as the current pet system is terrible. Poor interaction, poor damage, almost no effective area-of-effect damage, obstructing vision, etc. Since the introduction of subclasses, my team has banned pets in high-difficulty trials, especially those like RGhm that require constant observation of the surrounding environment and where monsters inside portals cannot be attacked freely.

As others have mentioned, I wouldn't be heartbroken if ZOS removed pets from Sorc; in fact, I'd cheer. In my opinion, Daedric Summoning should be like Vengeance. However, considering Twilight's skill skins, I suspect Twilight will at least remain as a permanent pet.

Another issue is that they've crammed too many themes into one class: Lightning/Daedric/Dark Magic and Animal/Plant/Frost. These three distinct themes are grouped into a single class, making it difficult for each theme to reach its full potential and hindering player consensus.

We still don't know how ZOS will actually refresh these two classes, but considering the differing opinions among players... I think this will be a daunting task that will be impossible to satisfy everyone.

Agree completely, some of these skill lines should be reconsidered, leave the dark magic to nightblades or frost to necromancers for example.

tbh I don't like Dark Magic the way it's done.
Imo Dark Magic is curses, pact with Oblivion mix of Conjuration and Destruction schools of magic.
For now it looks more like we throw black soul gems at our targets.

Devs can merge Conjuration and Dark Magic into one but expanded skill line with some synergies between Dark Magic spells and conjuration.

And Lightning...
Why it's just Lightning? Where is Ice and Frost? Class is a mage, mage use Destruction magic, so let it be not just Lightning but Elemental \ Destruction skill line.
For ex. when you pick base spell you get a choice, will it be lightning strike or fire ball or frost spear and then you morph it into stronger version or just make an expanded skill line with bunch of different ice\fire\lightning spells.

atm Dark magic doesn't fit Nightblades at all imo, Nightblades use Illusion magic, but Dark magic if done differently got potential to fits them more.

I said this on another warden rework and I will say it here. People don't understand the classes and are trying to rework based on their limited understanding. Wardens are storytellers. Thsy are not keeping zoos of real animals, or dragging around plant pots with them. They are summoning the essence of these things to come to their aid.
Sorcs are not generic destruction mages. In eso, being magicka based is being a mage. They are those who have bartered with a Daedric entity for power. Daedric summoning and Dark magic both reflect this.

Frost and Lightning are the "tacked on" lines, the others match, but even then, they match best. Frost and winter is the deadliest of nature's seasons. Lightning is pure magical energy. Even in this world, it's electricity, not fire, that powers modern human magic. You want to be a sorc who bartered with Dagon? Swap storm for ardent, though arguably either fit. A warden who came from a desert rather than snow? Add dawn's.

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Vindold wrote: »

And Lightning...
Why it's just Lightning? Where is Ice and Frost? Class is a mage, mage use Destruction magic, so let it be not just Lightning but Elemental \ Destruction skill line.
For ex. when you pick base spell you get a choice, will it be lightning strike or fire ball or frost spear and then you morph it into stronger version or just make an expanded skill line with bunch of different ice\fire\lightning spells.

atm Dark magic doesn't fit Nightblades at all imo, Nightblades use Illusion magic, but Dark magic if done differently got potential to fits them more.

You reminded me of something.


Can everyone guess which class's skill advisor this is?

It's the Sorc skill advisor, yet we all know that Ice 、 Frost and Oblivion aren't among Sorc's class skills. This is just another piece of evidence confirming that Sorc has been neglected or misunderstood by the official team for a long time.

Hopefully, Sorc will receive better treatment after this rework, as the fact that the skill advisor's description deviated from Sorc's actual situation is just one example.

I mean, it calls it an elemental arcanist. Arcanists now exist in game, they didn't when this was written. Ironically, necros are the class with all three elements present in their kit, actual arc uses frost and magic with a sprinkle of physical. Sorcs have always been able to use all three elements with an ice bar and a fire bar, but it's never really been viable the way this implies, even when it was written. Skills advisor has always been useless tbh, and I take this more as someone who doesn't or didn't play the game very much writing a cool idea, especially as oblivion damage used by players is capped.