Removing Map Based Leads?

MidnightDuel · January 28

Whereas it's gotten progressively easier to get gear with the stickerbook, loot curation, and transmutation/recreation, it feels like it's only gotten harder for players with a focus on housing. The double-locking of furnishing leads behind hard-to-get treasure maps is only one part of the story.

Unlike the motif leads that are also locked behind maps in High Isle, Blackwood and The Deadlands, the excavated motifs are not bound and can be sold to other players. That's not the case with the bound Antiquity furnishings. It's also quite telling that motif leads didn't continue to be double locked behind treasure maps while more and more furnishings have been.

Transmute crystals have never been easier to get with increases to PvP and Undaunted rewards and now higher transmute limits coming with U49. In contrast, Housing materials remain harder to get than materials for gear, potions or anything else in the game. While mimic stones can be used in place of rare style materials for gear, there is no such replacement for style materials when crafting furnishings. It's also telling that certain style materials rival or exceed gold gear materials on the guild traders. Housing players, who once sold gold gear mats to fund their housing needs are struggling to keep up with ever higher costs of ESO housing.

In short, furnishing leads double-locked behind rare Treasure Maps is only one aspect of how ESO favors combat over housing.

MoonPile · January 28

lillybit wrote: »

We aren't talking about big shiny mounts or the latest must have mythic. It's just furnishings that don't even have bragging rights attached. The effort to get them is massively out of proportion to the reward.
....

Exactly. A lot of us just want to use these items as "lego pieces" for our creative ideas, but when we can't buy multiples nor even reasonably unlock them to begin with, we'd rather choose to ignore their existence.

To quote our friend Zerith-var again:

“What use is treasure if it stays sealed away?”

.

MoonPile · February 9

Hi all,

The Real Endgame (a large ESO Housing community on Discord – https://discord.gg/8A9XByfhxV ) is hosting a survey about Map-exclusive Antiquities. We're seeking player input on Treasure Map Leads for Antiquity furnishings from a housing perspective. Responses will be shared with the Devs, who've recently responded regarding this issue. (The sent responses will be anonymized.)

Please come take the quick survey and share your map data:
⭐ https://forms.gle/Yx4D6gqzKf4Lzvc47

And feel free to share with other housers who'd be interested in improving this system for all players!

For reference – my data from tests this summer:
130+ maps used in total, only 1 item codex-unlocked 3/3 to buy, and a gap of 2 months & 76 Maps with NO leads:
https://moonpile.tumblr.com/post/796136099180396544/solstice-treasure-map-leads-data-sept-30

LunaFlora · February 10

MoonPile wrote: »

Hi all,

The Real Endgame (a large ESO Housing community on Discord – https://discord.gg/8A9XByfhxV ) is hosting a survey about Map-exclusive Antiquities. We're seeking player input on Treasure Map Leads for Antiquity furnishings from a housing perspective. Responses will be shared with the Devs, who've recently responded regarding this issue. (The sent responses will be anonymized.)

Please come take the quick survey and share your map data:
⭐ https://forms.gle/Yx4D6gqzKf4Lzvc47

And feel free to share with other housers who'd be interested in improving this system for all players!

For reference – my data from tests this summer:
130+ maps used in total, only 1 item codex-unlocked 3/3 to buy, and a gap of 2 months & 76 Maps with NO leads:
https://moonpile.tumblr.com/post/796136099180396544/solstice-treasure-map-leads-data-sept-30

i took the survey, hopefully ZOS uses it.

personally i do not attempt to purchase hundreds of maps with the horrible drop chances. hopefully it gets improved significantly soon.

Virenic · February 10

MoonPile wrote: »

Hi all,

The Real Endgame (a large ESO Housing community on Discord – https://discord.gg/8A9XByfhxV ) is hosting a survey about Map-exclusive Antiquities. We're seeking player input on Treasure Map Leads for Antiquity furnishings from a housing perspective. Responses will be shared with the Devs, who've recently responded regarding this issue. (The sent responses will be anonymized.)

Please come take the quick survey and share your map data:
⭐ https://forms.gle/Yx4D6gqzKf4Lzvc47

And feel free to share with other housers who'd be interested in improving this system for all players!

For reference – my data from tests this summer:
130+ maps used in total, only 1 item codex-unlocked 3/3 to buy, and a gap of 2 months & 76 Maps with NO leads:
https://moonpile.tumblr.com/post/796136099180396544/solstice-treasure-map-leads-data-sept-30

Hi MoonPile. I always appreciate your showcases of new antiquity furnishings and your efforts to bring issues to ZOS' attention. I've completed the survey, but I've found my experience quite variable. For West Weald, it took <250 maps to complete all codex entries, but my experience with the Solstice leads hasn't been so great.

I've been tracking my progress in another thread, but thought it might interest you.

Map #1 / ? maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Behemoth (1/3)
Map #2 / 1 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Counter Weight (1/3)
Map #6 / 4 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Arm (1/3)
Map #9 / 3 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Iguana (1/3)
Map #10 / 1 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Massive Skull (1/3)
Map #11 / 1 maps since last lead - Coldharbour Soul Furnace (1/3)
Map #12 / 1 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Behemoth (2/3)
Map #14 / 2 maps since last lead - Solstice Giant Crocodile Ribs (2/3)
Map #15 / 1 maps since last lead - Geometric Stone-Nest Totem (1/3)
Map #18 / 3 maps since last lead - Reaper, Pattern Template (1/3)
Map #19 / 1 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Head (1/3)
Map #21 / 2 maps since last lead - Daedric Gate, Coldharbour (1/3)
Map #22 / 1 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Iguana (2/3)
Map #23 / 1 maps since last lead - Large Solstice Bismuth Tower (1/3)
Map #24 / 1 maps since last lead - Solstice Giant Crocodile Ribs (3/3)
Map #31 / 7 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Iguana (3/3)
Map #47 / 16 maps since last lead - Geometric Stone-Nest Totem (2/3)
Map #62 / 15 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Pendulum (X/3)
Map #74 / 12 maps since last lead - Coldharbour Soul Furnace (2/3)
Map #93 / 19 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Arm (2/3)
Map #122 / 29 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Arm (3/3)
Map #139 / 17 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Massive Skull (2/3)
Map #169 / 30 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Counter Weight (2/3)
Map #174 / 5 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Counter Weight (3/3)
Map #177 / 3 maps since last lead - Large Solstice Bismuth Tower (2/3)
Map #187 / 10 maps since last lead - Vitrified Soul Crystal (2/3)
Map #207 / 20 maps since last lead - Solstice Giant Crocodile Tail (2/3)
Map #239 / 32 maps since last lead - Daedric Gate, Coldharbour (2/3)
Map #244 / 5 maps since last lead - Coldharbour Soul Furnace (3/3)
Map #246 / 2 maps since last lead - Solstice Giant Crocodile Tail (3/3)
Map #323 / 77 maps since last lead - Large Solstice Bismuth Tower (3/3)
Map #335 / 12 maps since last lead - Daedric Gate, Coldharbour (3/3)
Map #340 / 5 maps since last lead - Geometric Stone-Nest Totem (3/3)
Map #386 / 46 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Behemoth (3/3)
Map #406 / 20 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Massive Skull (3/3)
Map #456 / 50 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Head (2/3)
Map #478 / 22 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Head (3/3)
Map #650 / 172 maps since last lead - Vitrified Soul Crystal (3/3)
Map #748 / 98 maps since last lead - No new leads

MoonPile · February 10

Virenic wrote: »

Hi MoonPile. I always appreciate your showcases of new antiquity furnishings and your efforts to bring issues to ZOS' attention. I've completed the survey, but I've found my experience quite variable. For West Weald, it took <250 maps to complete all codex entries, but my experience with the Solstice leads hasn't been so great.

I've been tracking my progress in another thread, but thought it might interest you.

Map #1 / ? maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Behemoth (1/3)
Map #2 / 1 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Counter Weight (1/3)
Map #6 / 4 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Arm (1/3)
Map #9 / 3 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Iguana (1/3)
Map #10 / 1 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Massive Skull (1/3)
Map #11 / 1 maps since last lead - Coldharbour Soul Furnace (1/3)
Map #12 / 1 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Behemoth (2/3)
Map #14 / 2 maps since last lead - Solstice Giant Crocodile Ribs (2/3)
Map #15 / 1 maps since last lead - Geometric Stone-Nest Totem (1/3)
Map #18 / 3 maps since last lead - Reaper, Pattern Template (1/3)
Map #19 / 1 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Head (1/3)
Map #21 / 2 maps since last lead - Daedric Gate, Coldharbour (1/3)
Map #22 / 1 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Iguana (2/3)
Map #23 / 1 maps since last lead - Large Solstice Bismuth Tower (1/3)
Map #24 / 1 maps since last lead - Solstice Giant Crocodile Ribs (3/3)
Map #31 / 7 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Iguana (3/3)
Map #47 / 16 maps since last lead - Geometric Stone-Nest Totem (2/3)
Map #62 / 15 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Pendulum (X/3)
Map #74 / 12 maps since last lead - Coldharbour Soul Furnace (2/3)
Map #93 / 19 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Arm (2/3)
Map #122 / 29 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Arm (3/3)
Map #139 / 17 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Massive Skull (2/3)
Map #169 / 30 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Counter Weight (2/3)
Map #174 / 5 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Counter Weight (3/3)
Map #177 / 3 maps since last lead - Large Solstice Bismuth Tower (2/3)
Map #187 / 10 maps since last lead - Vitrified Soul Crystal (2/3)
Map #207 / 20 maps since last lead - Solstice Giant Crocodile Tail (2/3)
Map #239 / 32 maps since last lead - Daedric Gate, Coldharbour (2/3)
Map #244 / 5 maps since last lead - Coldharbour Soul Furnace (3/3)
Map #246 / 2 maps since last lead - Solstice Giant Crocodile Tail (3/3)
Map #323 / 77 maps since last lead - Large Solstice Bismuth Tower (3/3)
Map #335 / 12 maps since last lead - Daedric Gate, Coldharbour (3/3)
Map #340 / 5 maps since last lead - Geometric Stone-Nest Totem (3/3)
Map #386 / 46 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Behemoth (3/3)
Map #406 / 20 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Massive Skull (3/3)
Map #456 / 50 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Head (2/3)
Map #478 / 22 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Head (3/3)
Map #650 / 172 maps since last lead - Vitrified Soul Crystal (3/3)
Map #748 / 98 maps since last lead - No new leads

"...
Map #650 / 172 maps since last lead - Vitrified Soul Crystal (3/3)
Map #748 / 98 maps since last lead - No new leads"

HOLY ....!!!
My jaw dropped and has yet to come back up!

First of all, you have far greater stamina than I do for testing this xD thank you for recording and sharing! Do you mind if I share your numbers with others? Can credit or not, as you prefer.

I'd heard of Solstice taking <~ 300 maps for people to complete, but I think most of those reports were pre-Eastern Solstice, which added 7 new furnishings to maps, for a new total of 13 versus the earlier 6. So the maps about doubling would be expected, but you're above double now.

This makes me think they just blanket applied the rates for something else, like harvesting, to maps and didn't think twice about it. Picking 750 flowers – sure, fine. But finding and buying 750 maps (~37.5 MILLION gold on avg.) then running back and forth to dig over god knows how much time...

Absurd. This is so bad. (Censoring my actual thoughts for forum-decorum.)
.

Virenic · February 11

MoonPile wrote: »

Virenic wrote: »

Hi MoonPile. I always appreciate your showcases of new antiquity furnishings and your efforts to bring issues to ZOS' attention. I've completed the survey, but I've found my experience quite variable. For West Weald, it took <250 maps to complete all codex entries, but my experience with the Solstice leads hasn't been so great.

I've been tracking my progress in another thread, but thought it might interest you.

Map #1 / ? maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Behemoth (1/3)
Map #2 / 1 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Counter Weight (1/3)
Map #6 / 4 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Arm (1/3)
Map #9 / 3 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Iguana (1/3)
Map #10 / 1 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Massive Skull (1/3)
Map #11 / 1 maps since last lead - Coldharbour Soul Furnace (1/3)
Map #12 / 1 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Behemoth (2/3)
Map #14 / 2 maps since last lead - Solstice Giant Crocodile Ribs (2/3)
Map #15 / 1 maps since last lead - Geometric Stone-Nest Totem (1/3)
Map #18 / 3 maps since last lead - Reaper, Pattern Template (1/3)
Map #19 / 1 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Head (1/3)
Map #21 / 2 maps since last lead - Daedric Gate, Coldharbour (1/3)
Map #22 / 1 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Iguana (2/3)
Map #23 / 1 maps since last lead - Large Solstice Bismuth Tower (1/3)
Map #24 / 1 maps since last lead - Solstice Giant Crocodile Ribs (3/3)
Map #31 / 7 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Iguana (3/3)
Map #47 / 16 maps since last lead - Geometric Stone-Nest Totem (2/3)
Map #62 / 15 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Pendulum (X/3)
Map #74 / 12 maps since last lead - Coldharbour Soul Furnace (2/3)
Map #93 / 19 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Arm (2/3)
Map #122 / 29 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Arm (3/3)
Map #139 / 17 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Massive Skull (2/3)
Map #169 / 30 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Counter Weight (2/3)
Map #174 / 5 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Counter Weight (3/3)
Map #177 / 3 maps since last lead - Large Solstice Bismuth Tower (2/3)
Map #187 / 10 maps since last lead - Vitrified Soul Crystal (2/3)
Map #207 / 20 maps since last lead - Solstice Giant Crocodile Tail (2/3)
Map #239 / 32 maps since last lead - Daedric Gate, Coldharbour (2/3)
Map #244 / 5 maps since last lead - Coldharbour Soul Furnace (3/3)
Map #246 / 2 maps since last lead - Solstice Giant Crocodile Tail (3/3)
Map #323 / 77 maps since last lead - Large Solstice Bismuth Tower (3/3)
Map #335 / 12 maps since last lead - Daedric Gate, Coldharbour (3/3)
Map #340 / 5 maps since last lead - Geometric Stone-Nest Totem (3/3)
Map #386 / 46 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Behemoth (3/3)
Map #406 / 20 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Massive Skull (3/3)
Map #456 / 50 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Head (2/3)
Map #478 / 22 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Head (3/3)
Map #650 / 172 maps since last lead - Vitrified Soul Crystal (3/3)
Map #748 / 98 maps since last lead - No new leads

"...
Map #650 / 172 maps since last lead - Vitrified Soul Crystal (3/3)
Map #748 / 98 maps since last lead - No new leads"

HOLY ....!!!
My jaw dropped and has yet to come back up!

First of all, you have far greater stamina than I do for testing this xD thank you for recording and sharing! Do you mind if I share your numbers with others? Can credit or not, as you prefer.

I'd heard of Solstice taking <~ 300 maps for people to complete, but I think most of those reports were pre-Eastern Solstice, which added 7 new furnishings to maps, for a new total of 13 versus the earlier 6. So the maps about doubling would be expected, but you're above double now.

This makes me think they just blanket applied the rates for something else, like harvesting, to maps and didn't think twice about it. Picking 750 flowers – sure, fine. But finding and buying 750 maps (~37.5 MILLION gold on avg.) then running back and forth to dig over god knows how much time...

Absurd. This is so bad. (Censoring my actual thoughts for forum-decorum.)
.

Yes, feel free to share! I've been a bit stunned by how appalling the grind has been for these maps.

It's not immediately obvious from my list, but all I'm missing are the second and third leads for the Reaper, Pattern Template. All these maps were dug up in the last week.

MidnightDuel · February 11

Solstice Treasure Maps exemplify the current situation.

The Infinite Archive had Solstice Treasure Maps for sale from the IA merchant Ool this week. I spent 162,000 Archival Fortunes to buy 81 treasure maps and kept track of the results. This sum was the accumulated fortunes from many previous runs, plus additional runs during the week. I started with two (2) maps, one that was a gift from another player and one other that I had picked-up from one of Azandar's Portfolios for a total of 83 Solstice Treasure Maps. The following is my recap of leads (or, more precisely, the lack thereof):

7 blue-quality leads (which can only be obtained from map leads)
4 purple quality leads (one of which drops from anything and everything in the zone and another for which I already had the complete codex)

The lead drop rate was only 13% or an average of 1 lead for 8 maps. However, the no-lead streak would often run 12 or more maps in a row. In the end, only two of the leads progressed the codex toward buying additional copies from the Sunport seller. As before this run, there are still four antiquities that I still do not have the codices.

The above illustrates a punishing practice of double-locking furnishing leads behind 1) hard-to-get treasure maps and 2) ridiculous RNG drop rates from an overly-large loot table that also includes leads that drop from multiple other sources. For players with a focus on housing, this practice is an unnecessary roadblock to being able to create housing builds using interesting furnishings.

While some may applaud the availability of zone maps in the IA's rotating weekly inventory, the practice is little more than a gambling mechanic with odds that are worse than those for furnishings from Crown Crates, without the ability to purchase desired furnishings with Gems or Endeavor Seals. I spent fortunes that I had ear-marked for Apocrypha furnishings only available from the IA merchants. Possibly the only winners were the players who used their IA currency to buy the Solstice Maps and sell them for an average of 45K gold each on the guild traders.

That fact that treasure maps were added to merchants in IA and IC along side leads for mythics demonstrates two things:

Someone on the ZOS development team understands how difficult it is to get the leads from maps and
The bar is considerably higher for antiquity furnishings than for mythic gear, which doesn't have the same double-locking and can be endlessly recreated using a transmute station and crystals.

Personofsecrets · February 11

I stopped my solstice map rush last week after a 12 map dry streak and I learned that's nothing. I had no idea how bad things were.

I'm quite amazed that the most consistent things that our seasoned tripple A game designers do is make systems that are awful to engage in with horrid balance.

I dont know exactly the conclusion that can be drawn. Some say that they dont play their own game. But I think they do play. It seems as though the act of being a game designer somehow insulates one from common sense. It seems like being a designer inherently makes one not able to take others serriously. "Stop worrying" they say.

Needless to say, I don't get. Everything should be done with intent and thats not what I see happening. There are just such collossal misses and it's a wonder as to why.

rockDokRock · February 11

onyxorb wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Its not just map based leads. Leads in general have bad rng. For each lead there should be a way to increase drop chances.

Here's an idea. Give us a green tree cp star that gives lead drop booster.

OR make it like morrowind and have and increased drop chance if you have achievements related to a zone or dlc.

For dungeons you can make it stickerbook completion based. I know that if I run a dungeon enough to complete sticker book for it I have done it enough that leads should just drop from it.

The RNG 'is' bad for certain items. Which is not a huge issue in itself when it's just 'kill a WB', 'run a dungeon', 'kill mobs in a zone'. The problem is when that RNG is buried by multiple levels of OTHER RNG. It's very problematic and depressing.

Totally agree with the with a cp for luck, or having some kind of mercy system.

It's the double-standard that does my head in. Some things you can find have a "cooldown" because it would be game breaking if you got another pattern or motif or something. But when RNG goes against you, well, you are expected to just suck it up. Really unfair.

AllenaNightWood · February 11

i dont think they should be removed but should be Guaranteed out of treasure map chests

Personofsecrets · February 11

Imagine how a low information player engages with systems like this.

MoonPile · February 11

MidnightDuel wrote: »

Solstice Treasure Maps exemplify the current situation.

The Infinite Archive had Solstice Treasure Maps for sale from the IA merchant Ool this week. I spent 162,000 Archival Fortunes to buy 81 treasure maps and kept track of the results. This sum was the accumulated fortunes from many previous runs, plus additional runs during the week. I started with two (2) maps, one that was a gift from another player and one other that I had picked-up from one of Azandar's Portfolios for a total of 83 Solstice Treasure Maps. The following is my recap of leads (or, more precisely, the lack thereof):
7 blue-quality leads (which can only be obtained from map leads)

4 purple quality leads (one of which drops from anything and everything in the zone and another for which I already had the complete codex)

The lead drop rate was only 13% or an average of 1 lead for 8 maps. However, the no-lead streak would often run 12 or more maps in a row. In the end, only two of the leads progressed the codex toward buying additional copies from the Sunport seller. As before this run, there are still four antiquities that I still do not have the codices.

The above illustrates a punishing practice of double-locking furnishing leads behind 1) hard-to-get treasure maps and 2) ridiculous RNG drop rates from an overly-large loot table that also includes leads that drop from multiple other sources. For players with a focus on housing, this practice is an unnecessary roadblock to being able to create housing builds using interesting furnishings.

While some may applaud the availability of zone maps in the IA's rotating weekly inventory, the practice is little more than a gambling mechanic with odds that are worse than those for furnishings from Crown Crates, without the ability to purchase desired furnishings with Gems or Endeavor Seals. I spent fortunes that I had ear-marked for Apocrypha furnishings only available from the IA merchants. Possibly the only winners were the players who used their IA currency to buy the Solstice Maps and sell them for an average of 45K gold each on the guild traders.

That fact that treasure maps were added to merchants in IA and IC along side leads for mythics demonstrates two things:
Someone on the ZOS development team understands how difficult it is to get the leads from maps and

The bar is considerably higher for antiquity furnishings than for mythic gear, which doesn't have the same double-locking and can be endlessly recreated using a transmute station and crystals.

Hi MidnightDuel, Are you counting 1/3 codex in this?
1 lead per 8 maps sounds like 1/3 codex would've skewed it a bit higher, because it has FAR better drop rates and is curated to a degree. Players can expect to at least complete 1/3 of each item.

But 2/3 - 3/3 codex unlock gets exponentially worse – as you can see with Virenic's numbers above (streaks of up to 172 maps, no lead), and mine here (76 maps & 2 months with no lead – from summer before Eastern Solstice further polluted the pool): https://moonpile.tumblr.com/post/796136099180396544/solstice-treasure-map-leads-data-sept-30

In the link above, my count started at 2/3 codex. Only 5 out of 105 maps had leads: less than 5%.

In those runs, I got 4 purples (3 of a single item, unlocked 4/3 + another stuck at 2/3) and 1 blue. I wonder if purples drop more often even from Maps, oddly making lower-quality items rarer. Or just coincidence.

Maybe on an Excel sheet, 5-13% looks good. Data-science-wise, 5% is even a high rate in some contexts. But I have to wonder whether the team in charge of RNG has gone out and actually tried doing this? It's one thing to go pick looting or harvesting with a 5% drop rate; Maps are a different beast entirely. It's boring, time-consuming, miserable – and wildly expensive without much to show for it. The real endgame is... Maps?! Ugh.

(+ Blues and Greens are not buyable:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/677582/antiquities-are-missing-from-their-vendors-for-2-3-years/p1?new=1)

Everyone please share your feedback here too:

MoonPile wrote: »

Hi all,

The Real Endgame (a large ESO Housing community on Discord – https://discord.gg/8A9XByfhxV ) is hosting a survey about Map-exclusive Antiquities. We're seeking player input on Treasure Map Leads for Antiquity furnishings from a housing perspective. Responses will be shared with the Devs, who've recently responded regarding this issue. (The sent responses will be anonymized.)

Please come take the quick survey and share your map data:
⭐ https://forms.gle/Yx4D6gqzKf4Lzvc47

And feel free to share with other housers who'd be interested in improving this system for all players!

For reference – my data from tests this summer:
130+ maps used in total, only 1 item codex-unlocked 3/3 to buy, and a gap of 2 months & 76 Maps with NO leads:
https://moonpile.tumblr.com/post/796136099180396544/solstice-treasure-map-leads-data-sept-30

Marcelovski · February 11

I managed to finish the 3/3 codex for Solstice treasure maps during the last week. I spent 424k fortunes and millions of gold for a total of 735 treasure maps. Plus many very boring hours running back and forth to dig them out.

And the worst part: I didn't even feel happy when the last lead finally dropped after a dry streak of 75 or so maps. Just relieved.

MidnightDuel · February 11

MoonPile wrote: »

Hi MidnightDuel, Are you counting 1/3 codex in this?
1 lead per 8 maps sounds like 1/3 codex would've skewed it a bit higher, because it has FAR better drop rates and is curated to a degree. Players can expect to at least complete 1/3 of each item.

These results including the following:

I had completed the codex for Western Solstice before the Eastern half was opened and added more loot to the already full treasure map table. I spent over 18 million gold to buy maps from other players on the guild traders to do so. When the Writhing Wall came down, I spent another 7.5 million to buy additional maps, before this most recent round with the IA-purchases.
My rate may have been higher due to practice of digging up "trash" treasure maps before going for maps in the double-locked zones. I will dig up maps in base zones that drop un-bound motif leads. Sometimes those maps also drop leads for zone antiquities. When I have dug up three or four "trash maps" in a row without any new leads, then (and only then) do I take the time to go to Solstice and dig up a "valuable map" with the potential for leads I want. After that I dig up maps in Solstice until I get a lead before going back to the trash maps and repeating the cycle. It's not fool-proof, but I feel the practice has increase my odds with maps in Apocrypha/Telvanni Peninsula, West Weald, and now Solstice.

rockDokRock · February 12

MidnightDuel wrote: »

MoonPile wrote: »

Hi MidnightDuel, Are you counting 1/3 codex in this?
1 lead per 8 maps sounds like 1/3 codex would've skewed it a bit higher, because it has FAR better drop rates and is curated to a degree. Players can expect to at least complete 1/3 of each item.

These results including the following:
I had completed the codex for Western Solstice before the Eastern half was opened and added more loot to the already full treasure map table. I spent over 18 million gold to buy maps from other players on the guild traders to do so. When the Writhing Wall came down, I spent another 7.5 million to buy additional maps, before this most recent round with the IA-purchases.

My rate may have been higher due to practice of digging up "trash" treasure maps before going for maps in the double-locked zones. I will dig up maps in base zones that drop un-bound motif leads. Sometimes those maps also drop leads for zone antiquities. When I have dug up three or four "trash maps" in a row without any new leads, then (and only then) do I take the time to go to Solstice and dig up a "valuable map" with the potential for leads I want. After that I dig up maps in Solstice until I get a lead before going back to the trash maps and repeating the cycle. It's not fool-proof, but I feel the practice has increase my odds with maps in Apocrypha/Telvanni Peninsula, West Weald, and now Solstice.

I don't really understand how these treasure maps/drops work (reading through this). Is there a guide somewhere? I've just taken it as it comes and not really farmed any maps or leads (aside from mythics).

rockDokRock · February 12

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Imagine how a low information player engages with systems like this.

That would be me. Trying to wrap my head around this as everything I am reading in this thread is new to me.

MidnightDuel · February 12

rockDokRock wrote: »

I don't really understand how these treasure maps/drops work (reading through this). Is there a guide somewhere? I've just taken it as it comes and not really farmed any maps or leads (aside from mythics).

With any computer-generated RNG (Random Number Generation), the process is never truly random. The "chance" outcome may seem random, but the computer has parameters that were programmed. There is no guide, but enough experience has shown that:

The first lead has a higher chance of dropping than the second or third in a three-part codex
If you already have an un-dug leads in your list, you won't see it drop again until the current lead is excavated, even though that lead is still part of the loot table and can interfere with getting leads for other items in the same loot table
After the codex is complete for an antiquity, the drop rate normalizes and the chance of getting additional leads seems to improve
While you can get back-to-back or even double lead drops from the same source, more often there is a gap between leads. In my experience treasure maps never drop double leads.

MidnightDuel · February 12

Marcelovski wrote: »

I managed to finish the 3/3 codex for Solstice treasure maps during the last week. I spent 424k fortunes and millions of gold for a total of 735 treasure maps. Plus many very boring hours running back and forth to dig them out.

And the worst part: I didn't even feel happy when the last lead finally dropped after a dry streak of 75 or so maps. Just relieved.

Congratulations @Marcelovski on completing the codices! You might be the world's first to do so.

You had far more Archival Fortunes, spent much more gold on maps, and have heaps more patience than I. Sorry that it didn't make you "feel happy." At least it didn't leave you feeling angry, which is my experience thinking of how much time, gold, and (most recently) Archival Fortunes were wasted on Treasure Maps and seeking impossibly illusive leads.

MoonPile · February 12

MidnightDuel wrote: »

Marcelovski wrote: »

I managed to finish the 3/3 codex for Solstice treasure maps during the last week. I spent 424k fortunes and millions of gold for a total of 735 treasure maps. Plus many very boring hours running back and forth to dig them out.

And the worst part: I didn't even feel happy when the last lead finally dropped after a dry streak of 75 or so maps. Just relieved.

Congratulations @Marcelovski on completing the codices! You might be the world's first to do so.

You had far more Archival Fortunes, spent much more gold on maps, and have heaps more patience than I. Sorry that it didn't make you "feel happy." At least it didn't leave you feeling angry, which is my experience thinking of how much time, gold, and (most recently) Archival Fortunes were wasted on Treasure Maps and seeking impossibly illusive leads.

Agree with all of the above – insane numbers! Thank you for sharing @Marcelovski

I will still "boycott" using Solstice & WW maps until something real is done about those rates. And I know that might be a long, long time, but like you I would not even feel happy – understatement. Even if I were to get the one item I'd been asking for, I don't feel it's a good use of gold at all, nor fair to keep doing this to players with every new zone.

Also thanks a lot for sharing your insights a few posts above, Midnight!

MoonPile · February 12

rockDokRock wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Imagine how a low information player engages with systems like this.

That would be me. Trying to wrap my head around this as everything I am reading in this thread is new to me.

Just by finding this thread, I suspect you are at least medium-info!

Lots of players don't even go on the forums (or can't even make an account or log in – something's bugged about it), nor reddit, nor discords...

Curious how it will be with Hearts Week dropping so many maps. Mostly old-zone maps that seasoned players destroy or give away... But there's a bit of incentive to use them since dug-up chests drop parcels.

How many players – especially new players with new characters who get a boost to lead drops – will use them, get a few 1/3 codex leads, feel lucky and assume this is a fun and fair system that gives good drops. Then maybe they get interested in a particular furnishing to unlock and go out and buy more maps... and more, and more, thinking "Surely this is a fluke? Maybe the next one?" and it doesn't – not for 10 maps, 25, 50, 75+.

Then, imagine they somehow miraculously get 3/3... and it's a Blue or Green and they didn't know they can't even buy that.

What an awful bait-and-switch.

Virenic · February 13

Marcelovski wrote: »

I managed to finish the 3/3 codex for Solstice treasure maps during the last week. I spent 424k fortunes and millions of gold for a total of 735 treasure maps. Plus many very boring hours running back and forth to dig them out.

And the worst part: I didn't even feel happy when the last lead finally dropped after a dry streak of 75 or so maps. Just relieved.

Thanks for posting this - gave me the motivation to finish.

Final map data for my 3/3 Solstice codex farm:

Map #1 / ? maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Behemoth (1/3)
Map #2 / 1 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Counter Weight (1/3)
Map #6 / 4 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Arm (1/3)
Map #9 / 3 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Iguana (1/3)
Map #10 / 1 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Massive Skull (1/3)
Map #11 / 1 maps since last lead - Coldharbour Soul Furnace (1/3)
Map #12 / 1 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Behemoth (2/3)
Map #14 / 2 maps since last lead - Solstice Giant Crocodile Ribs (2/3)
Map #15 / 1 maps since last lead - Geometric Stone-Nest Totem (1/3)
Map #18 / 3 maps since last lead - Reaper, Pattern Template (1/3)
Map #19 / 1 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Head (1/3)
Map #21 / 2 maps since last lead - Daedric Gate, Coldharbour (1/3)
Map #22 / 1 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Iguana (2/3)
Map #23 / 1 maps since last lead - Large Solstice Bismuth Tower (1/3)
Map #24 / 1 maps since last lead - Solstice Giant Crocodile Ribs (3/3)
Map #31 / 7 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Iguana (3/3)
Map #47 / 16 maps since last lead - Geometric Stone-Nest Totem (2/3)
Map #62 / 15 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Pendulum (X/3)
Map #74 / 12 maps since last lead - Coldharbour Soul Furnace (2/3)
Map #93 / 19 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Arm (2/3)
Map #122 / 29 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Arm (3/3)
Map #139 / 17 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Massive Skull (2/3)
Map #169 / 30 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Counter Weight (2/3)
Map #174 / 5 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Counter Weight (3/3)
Map #177 / 3 maps since last lead - Large Solstice Bismuth Tower (2/3)
Map #187 / 10 maps since last lead - Vitrified Soul Crystal (2/3)
Map #207 / 20 maps since last lead - Solstice Giant Crocodile Tail (2/3)
Map #239 / 32 maps since last lead - Daedric Gate, Coldharbour (2/3)
Map #244 / 5 maps since last lead - Coldharbour Soul Furnace (3/3)
Map #246 / 2 maps since last lead - Solstice Giant Crocodile Tail (3/3)
Map #323 / 77 maps since last lead - Large Solstice Bismuth Tower (3/3)
Map #335 / 12 maps since last lead - Daedric Gate, Coldharbour (3/3)
Map #340 / 5 maps since last lead - Geometric Stone-Nest Totem (3/3)
Map #386 / 46 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Behemoth (3/3)
Map #406 / 20 maps since last lead - Stone-Nest Totem, Massive Skull (3/3)
Map #456 / 50 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Head (2/3)
Map #478 / 22 maps since last lead - Molag Bal Statue, Fractured Head (3/3)
Map #650 / 172 maps since last lead - Vitrified Soul Crystal (3/3)
Map #810 / 160 maps since last lead - Reaper, Pattern Template (2/3)
Map #818 / 8 maps since last lead - Reaper, Pattern Template (3/3)

Getting those last two Reaper leads was a bit insane. Im not convinced lead drops were working as intended for me.

And if anyone is interested, opening all those treasure chests also yielded:
1 Forest Study Painting, Unfinished
4 Meadow Study Painting, Unfinished
1 Nord Shed Painting, Unfinished
1 Tide-Born Reed Art, Turtle
1 Tide-Born Tapestry, Lizard
3 Tide-Born Tapestry, Origins
3 Tide-Born Tapestry, Sap
1 Tide-Born Tapestry, Snake
4 Tide-Born Tapestry, Training
1 Tide-Born Tapestry, Turtle

I echo the sentiment about only feeling relieved once I got the final lead. Now I will mourn the millions in gold and archival fortunes spent on this ridiculous farm, but at least my codex is complete again.

HazelRAAA · February 13

Agree with post and comments. Please address this

katanagirl1 · February 14

Furnishing leads from treasure maps are like another form of Crown crates. I won’t buy them. Why waste my hard-earned Fortunes when I hate the IA and its bevy of furnishing leads itself?

lillybit · February 14

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Furnishing leads from treasure maps are like another form of Crown crates. I won’t buy them. Why waste my hard-earned Fortunes when I hate the IA and its bevy of furnishing leads itself?

I hate IA leads almost as much, there's so many leads there and most if the time I can do an arc or 2 without seeing any

Marcelovski · February 14

Virenic wrote: »

Thanks for posting this - gave me the motivation to finish.
(...)
I echo the sentiment about only feeling relieved once I got the final lead. Now I will mourn the millions in gold and archival fortunes spent on this ridiculous farm, but at least my codex is complete again.

Congrats! At least the third reaper didn't take so long after the second one

Lilarna · February 15

I just had a friend confess to me they were at 520 maps with no lead drop for what they're looking for. I don't know which lead though, I could check?

Compelling number in any case!

MidnightDuel · February 15

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Furnishing leads from treasure maps are like another form of Crown crates. I won’t buy them. Why waste my hard-earned Fortunes when I hate the IA and its bevy of furnishing leads itself?

I actually enjoy IA and wish I could play it more. Sadly, I can physically only play to the end of Arc 3 solo (Arc 4 duo) before my hands give out due to age and arthritis. After a good run, I typically cannot run it again for a few days while my hands recover. Despite the pain and discomfort, I'd rather earn leads and rewards in IA than through the double-locked Treasure Map process.

While the leads from Infinite Archive (IA) take a while to obtain, at least the effort is rewarded over time. Moreover, if a lead doesn't drop, players still earn Archival Fortunes that can be used to buy exclusive furnishings from one of the IA merchants. IA also has the benefit of dropping furnishing plans and actual furnishings among the rewards of gear, style pages, gold, etc. The combat may not be every player's cup of tea, but from a rewards perspective, it's one of the most accessible and rewarding activities in ESO.

Still, the leads from IA have a similar set of hurdles to Treasure Maps in that:

Many leads share the same loot table, so there is definitely a grind to get all of the leads and ultimately the codices,
Over time additional leads were added, which diluted all lead drops, mixing old and new leads from the same sources,
Blue leads are the only source for the blue quality furnishings, which cannot be purchased even when the codex has been completed, and
Unlike the curated class-gear drops from the Tho'At and Marauders, there is no lead curation.

Please also note that leads cannot be shared among grouped players, unlike the IA class gear that is curated and can be traded with player-partners on the same IA run. Once again we see the inequality between curated combat-related-gear drops and non-curated player-housing-furnishing sources.

On another note, it took a trip to the end of Arc 3 to earn enough Archival Fortunes to buy one set of six (6) Solstice Maps when they were available from the merchant, Ool, for the one week. It will likely be a year or longer before Solstice maps return, if ever. Either I will have saved up a hoard of Archival Fortunes by then or my hands will have completely given out and I won't be playing ESO anymore.

MidnightDuel · February 16

Virenic wrote: »

And if anyone is interested, opening all those treasure chests also yielded:
1 Forest Study Painting, Unfinished
4 Meadow Study Painting, Unfinished
1 Nord Shed Painting, Unfinished
1 Tide-Born Reed Art, Turtle
1 Tide-Born Tapestry, Lizard
3 Tide-Born Tapestry, Origins
3 Tide-Born Tapestry, Sap
1 Tide-Born Tapestry, Snake
4 Tide-Born Tapestry, Training
1 Tide-Born Tapestry, Turtle

I had kind of forgetten that the Solstice Treasre Maps also have the chance to drop Tide-Born art. I've had the unfinished paintings drop from overland chests without any Treasure Map. I don't recall getting any of the art drops with the recent round of Solstice Treasure Maps from the IA seller.

What I can't recall is whether I ever had one of the art pieces drop at the same time as a lead. I don't think so. I do recall thinking there were too many things dropping from Solstice Maps even before the eastern half of the island opened and more leads were added along with the maps IV through VI.

MoonPile · February 17

MidnightDuel wrote: »

unlike the IA class gear that is curated and can be traded with player-partners on the same IA run. Once again we see the inequality between curated combat-related-gear drops and non-curated player-housing-furnishing sources.

All of what you wrote is helpful but this is such an important point, wanted to highlight.

Why do we – the players who do practically all the types of content, just to get our items for the gameplay we actually most want to do – have to be stretched so far? Geez it's tiring. 😣