Hope everyone is having a great day!

I saw this thread and thought I would add my two cents into it! Anyways, I am a little concerned with how many people are saying something along the lines of “if you want solo dungeons then you really just want to play a single player game” or “this is a MMORPG, doing things as a group is how it should be and giving options to do otherwise will kill the game”. Both points I have to… disagree with.

MMORPG is a game with thousands of players in the same world interacting with each other. Not STRICTLY doing dungeons together. HOW they interact is up to the players, and it may very well be not the way YOU personally would. If the only reason you are playing ESO is for group content, then great! I wish you have an awesome time doing it. But there is more to an MMO then that. I personally love solo content. I like to do the challenges on my own, at my own pace. I do not like the pressure of PUG groups, or the worry of maybe this que I will end up in a toxic group. I did not sign up to this game to be PMed because the dungeon is not being completed as quickly as some rando wanted it to. I am not very competitive, I am not striving to push the META, I do not like being told to “Get Good”. The only reason I have stepped into group content is because I am an obsessive achievement wh**e and must complete. At least until I reach the limit of what I am willing to do (hell to the nah on ever doing trifecta of whatever trial is the hardest currently).

BUT I also love just chilling with other players. The other day I had a lovely conversation with a couple people about just random things while I was soloing world bosses. There was once I joined a weird flash mob/ band/ dance competition? That just randomly appeared in Stonefalls. It was hilarious and amazing! I cant exactly have that experience in a solo game. I also enjoy helping players out when they need it, and giving advice to new players in zone chat when they have questions. I like HAVING all the people there, I do really like the community despite some bad apples and believe it does enrich the world in ways a solo game cannot. I love the social aspect of an MMO just not the competitive parts or anything where there is an expectation on me to do certain things.

We are also forgetting RPers here… The amount of MONEY those guys put into their houses and character outfits is frankly shocking. I know a few that have dumped whole pay checks into the game so their necromancer character can have a cool lair with matching outfit and mount. Some of them don’t even do ANYTHING in the game but RP. I know of some that don’t do dungeons. They don’t do content except to grab the dyes maybe. They just RP. Yet the contributions THEY make to the game by buying anything new that comes off the crown store for their toons is DEFINITELY helping to keep the lights on. Money keeps the game alive, not dungeon que numbers. So no, solo dungeons will not “Kill the MMO”. In fact MORE people will purchase dungeons now that they become solo, so really, quite the opposite.

In the end the social aspect of any MMO is what YOU want to make of it. Whether you enjoy just guild trading and interactions through chat, dancing on an open bridge with randos, making your own stories with fellow players in RP, or striving to complete the hardest content as a team of hardcore players. I believe solo dungeons adds more opportunities for the community and opens the doors that were otherwise closed to plenty of people. That makes it worth it and will definitely not kill the game.

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Solo dungeons to enjoy the story at my own pace are a great thing. However, I don't want to see my character acquiring set-pices when therein. I'd like to see one defined one set-piece rewarded, once, from completing the dungeon quest (as it is now in-game). And that's all, I don't want my character finding any others, in chests, off enemies, bosses, or otherwise. Farming solo dungeons for set pieces shouldn't happen, something that really doesn't even need saying.

I also hope I don't see my solo dungeon experience forwarding my Undaunted Skill line; at it's heart Undaunted is about delving into dungeons and facing dangerous content with others. I also, obvsiously, I don't want my solo dungeon experience completing any daily undaunted quest from Maj, Glirion, or Urgarlag. We already have Bolgrul for a daily-solo, we certainly shouldn't have anymore.

Undaunted is fundamentally a group activity and should stay that way, it has nothing to so with solo dungeons. Solo dungeons are for being able to enjoy the story stress-free at our own pace. We need nothing else from them, if they let us do that - and they will - they will already be fulfilling their purpose and be a great addition to the game.

Undaunted exp can be earned by buying NPCs a drink and doing delves. It is no way a group only skill line. Solo dungeons should definitely award skill line progress because they are harder than delves and the skill line can already be maxed out entirely alone.

I don't think solo dungeons should award rnd completion, undaunted keys, transmute crystals, or group set pieces though. I guess the overland set pieces from the zone they're in would be fine. The challenging version could award its own separate leads for themed cosmetics.

No. It could potentially kill grouping, but MMO does not mean grouping. You can interact with other players via chatting, mailing, trading, housing, and more, and these interactions would not be killed by solo dungeons.

AvalonRanger wrote: »

"Solo Dungeons will Kill the MMO"

Maybe...

But honestly say, All ESO contents had already killed some of MMO aspect
from 11 years ago, and currently still keep killing.

Why?

Dev couldn't solve meta biased problem of this online game even
11 years later from launching day of 2014. Those strange "meta rule" of each contents
keep building "huge and thick dividing wall" for separating each of contents fans.

Then,

ESO became "the game which include totally different game title at once forcibly".
VERY--WEIRD--GAME--DESIGN. So, each of ESO factions never cross because of those game design.

I don't care MMO or not already. Basically say, Elder Scrolls used to be "single action role playing game" anyway.

"ESO PVE-MMO fans" <great wall> "ESO style PVPver" <great wall> "Legacy Elder Scrolls solo PVE player"

<great wall>= "strange meta rule" = keep killing ESO.

Zenimax Online Studio workers can't solve this bad problem even 11 years later from 2014!!!!!!
They have been increasing this "great wall" over and over....

zombievalen wrote: »

Today, this MMO is special; people play it as "Syrim Online." The community isn't toxic—in fact, it's great—but most are against raids and co-op.
It's incredible that an MMO community celebrates playing dungeons solo when you can play them in any offline game.
I think they should focus on making players need to socialize and cooperate more, and not just instance them alone... that's the essence of every MMO (like WoW, FF, etc.).
If they implement solo dungeons, random dungeons will disappear and the essence of the MMO as well.

I have played solo since Beta, I like playing SOLO, It's the way I like to play. Ok, I have missed a lot of stuff that has been put behind Dungeons and Trials but so what, It's my choice. If ZOS were to force (need) me to play with others, well, that would be the end of my playing ESO.

I can solo a lot of the Dungeons and making them so I can Solo more is a fantastic idea. Bring it on.

GuardianV wrote: »

I don't understand what their goal is with this. If they really want to make dungeons you can solo, why did they start with these 2? they should have started with Direfrost Keep and Imperial City Prison. Not only are Iceheart monster set and Leeching Plate armor 2 of the best sets for hard solo play, but they are both literally impossible to solo because they have mechanics that require 2 plays to activate things at the same time.

If they want to make things you can solo so that you can experience the dungeon at your own pace and get better at it, here is what they need to do for a "solo instance dungeon".

1. Remove mechanics that require 2 players. Things like interrupts or synergized while you are pinned, levers that need activated at the same time at 2 different places, and things that need killed while you are immobile or teleported somewhere else.
2. Make the bosses respawn after you kill it, so you can get more practice without having to run the whole dungeon again. If needed, you can disable set drops from multiple kills on the same run.
3. If you want to make it fancy you could even add items, or synergies like in Maelstrom arena that would simulate things you might get from other party members if the intent is to let players learn mechanics. These could be things like a slight HOT or a slight DOT if you want to practice as a tank.

Ultimately the reason needs to be clear. other than the 2 dungeons mentioned above with mechanic limiters, all other dungeons (I think) can be soloed on normal with the right build.

Personally I would like to see 1.

Remove mechanics that absolutely need two+ players. The bosses remain hard, the mobs remain hard, the rewards remain.

You just wouldn't need an extra player or two to get past mechanics.

If a player can still solo a dungeon that is at the same 'difficulty' for them as it is for a group, then let them.

Most players will still prefer to group, or just not do that content.

I would love to see everything in the game able to be soloed. Not *easily* soloed, but just no mechanics actively preventing one player from doing it.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

GuardianV wrote: »

I don't understand what their goal is with this. If they really want to make dungeons you can solo, why did they start with these 2? they should have started with Direfrost Keep and Imperial City Prison. Not only are Iceheart monster set and Leeching Plate armor 2 of the best sets for hard solo play, but they are both literally impossible to solo because they have mechanics that require 2 plays to activate things at the same time.

If they want to make things you can solo so that you can experience the dungeon at your own pace and get better at it, here is what they need to do for a "solo instance dungeon".

1. Remove mechanics that require 2 players. Things like interrupts or synergized while you are pinned, levers that need activated at the same time at 2 different places, and things that need killed while you are immobile or teleported somewhere else.
2. Make the bosses respawn after you kill it, so you can get more practice without having to run the whole dungeon again. If needed, you can disable set drops from multiple kills on the same run.
3. If you want to make it fancy you could even add items, or synergies like in Maelstrom arena that would simulate things you might get from other party members if the intent is to let players learn mechanics. These could be things like a slight HOT or a slight DOT if you want to practice as a tank.

Ultimately the reason needs to be clear. other than the 2 dungeons mentioned above with mechanic limiters, all other dungeons (I think) can be soloed on normal with the right build.

Personally I would like to see 1.

Remove mechanics that absolutely need two+ players. The bosses remain hard, the mobs remain hard, the rewards remain.

You just wouldn't need an extra player or two to get past mechanics.

If a player can still solo a dungeon that is at the same 'difficulty' for them as it is for a group, then let them.

Most players will still prefer to group, or just not do that content.

I would love to see everything in the game able to be soloed. Not *easily* soloed, but just no mechanics actively preventing one player from doing it.

thats the disconnect them that want story mode or solo dungeons are two different types of players one just wanting limitations to be removed and the other them wanting all difficulty to be removed....im on the side that if its just removing the limitations awards should stay as is if difficulty is removed awards should be too then as the difficulty is what the award is given to you for 1st and foremost

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

GuardianV wrote: »

I don't understand what their goal is with this. If they really want to make dungeons you can solo, why did they start with these 2? they should have started with Direfrost Keep and Imperial City Prison. Not only are Iceheart monster set and Leeching Plate armor 2 of the best sets for hard solo play, but they are both literally impossible to solo because they have mechanics that require 2 plays to activate things at the same time.

If they want to make things you can solo so that you can experience the dungeon at your own pace and get better at it, here is what they need to do for a "solo instance dungeon".

1. Remove mechanics that require 2 players. Things like interrupts or synergized while you are pinned, levers that need activated at the same time at 2 different places, and things that need killed while you are immobile or teleported somewhere else.
2. Make the bosses respawn after you kill it, so you can get more practice without having to run the whole dungeon again. If needed, you can disable set drops from multiple kills on the same run.
3. If you want to make it fancy you could even add items, or synergies like in Maelstrom arena that would simulate things you might get from other party members if the intent is to let players learn mechanics. These could be things like a slight HOT or a slight DOT if you want to practice as a tank.

Ultimately the reason needs to be clear. other than the 2 dungeons mentioned above with mechanic limiters, all other dungeons (I think) can be soloed on normal with the right build.

Personally I would like to see 1.

Remove mechanics that absolutely need two+ players. The bosses remain hard, the mobs remain hard, the rewards remain.

You just wouldn't need an extra player or two to get past mechanics.

If a player can still solo a dungeon that is at the same 'difficulty' for them as it is for a group, then let them.

Most players will still prefer to group, or just not do that content.

I would love to see everything in the game able to be soloed. Not *easily* soloed, but just no mechanics actively preventing one player from doing it.

thats the disconnect them that want story mode or solo dungeons are two different types of players one just wanting limitations to be removed and the other them wanting all difficulty to be removed....im on the side that if its just removing the limitations awards should stay as is if difficulty is removed awards should be too then as the difficulty is what the award is given to you for 1st and foremost

Yeah, and there are absolutely people who do want difficulty to be removed, but I think it is important to realize that those are not the same people who want soloable dungeons.

I see this on other games as well, where any talk about doing something, such as 'unretiring' items, or, in this case, changing something, will often have two different groups conflated, and opponents to the idea will often use things like 'removing all difficulty' or 'removing all challenge' or 'getting everything handed to them' to push back against them.

There are always going to be people who want challenge nerfed, or who want things just handed to them for minimal effort. Just as there are always going to be people who want exclusive items that only one percent of one percent of the population can get or who want things to be even more challenging for everyone.

None of those groups represent the majority of the players who might have something in common with them (such as story mode vs soloable dungeons, they would essentially turn out the same, but they want things done in two vastly different ways), and unless you are arguing with people from one of those groups specifically, it doesn't help treat everyone who doesn't agree with you as one of those groups.

Obviously I am also on the side of 'just remove limitations and keep the challenge' even though I will likely never be able to solo any of the harder dungeons (might not be able to solo *any* group dungeons, especially any time soon).

But, if I ever DO become able to solo dungeons, I both a) want the ability mechanic wise to do so and b) the rewards given for making it through a group dungeon.

with all available dungeons to be soloed ive worked up to where i can solo 100% of normal and vets and even do some 3 or 4 HMs but it takes work and build demands to achieve and well enjoy the day when dungeons that are otherwise locked for me to solo becomes available

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

GuardianV wrote: »

I don't understand what their goal is with this. If they really want to make dungeons you can solo, why did they start with these 2? they should have started with Direfrost Keep and Imperial City Prison. Not only are Iceheart monster set and Leeching Plate armor 2 of the best sets for hard solo play, but they are both literally impossible to solo because they have mechanics that require 2 plays to activate things at the same time.

If they want to make things you can solo so that you can experience the dungeon at your own pace and get better at it, here is what they need to do for a "solo instance dungeon".

1. Remove mechanics that require 2 players. Things like interrupts or synergized while you are pinned, levers that need activated at the same time at 2 different places, and things that need killed while you are immobile or teleported somewhere else.
2. Make the bosses respawn after you kill it, so you can get more practice without having to run the whole dungeon again. If needed, you can disable set drops from multiple kills on the same run.
3. If you want to make it fancy you could even add items, or synergies like in Maelstrom arena that would simulate things you might get from other party members if the intent is to let players learn mechanics. These could be things like a slight HOT or a slight DOT if you want to practice as a tank.

Ultimately the reason needs to be clear. other than the 2 dungeons mentioned above with mechanic limiters, all other dungeons (I think) can be soloed on normal with the right build.

Personally I would like to see 1.

Remove mechanics that absolutely need two+ players. The bosses remain hard, the mobs remain hard, the rewards remain.

You just wouldn't need an extra player or two to get past mechanics.

If a player can still solo a dungeon that is at the same 'difficulty' for them as it is for a group, then let them.

Most players will still prefer to group, or just not do that content.

I would love to see everything in the game able to be soloed. Not *easily* soloed, but just no mechanics actively preventing one player from doing it.

thats the disconnect them that want story mode or solo dungeons are two different types of players one just wanting limitations to be removed and the other them wanting all difficulty to be removed....im on the side that if its just removing the limitations awards should stay as is if difficulty is removed awards should be too then as the difficulty is what the award is given to you for 1st and foremost

Yeah, and there are absolutely people who do want difficulty to be removed, but I think it is important to realize that those are not the same people who want soloable dungeons.

I see this on other games as well, where any talk about doing something, such as 'unretiring' items, or, in this case, changing something, will often have two different groups conflated, and opponents to the idea will often use things like 'removing all difficulty' or 'removing all challenge' or 'getting everything handed to them' to push back against them.

There are always going to be people who want challenge nerfed, or who want things just handed to them for minimal effort. Just as there are always going to be people who want exclusive items that only one percent of one percent of the population can get or who want things to be even more challenging for everyone.

None of those groups represent the majority of the players who might have something in common with them (such as story mode vs soloable dungeons, they would essentially turn out the same, but they want things done in two vastly different ways), and unless you are arguing with people from one of those groups specifically, it doesn't help treat everyone who doesn't agree with you as one of those groups.

Obviously I am also on the side of 'just remove limitations and keep the challenge' even though I will likely never be able to solo any of the harder dungeons (might not be able to solo *any* group dungeons, especially any time soon).

But, if I ever DO become able to solo dungeons, I both a) want the ability mechanic wise to do so and b) the rewards given for making it through a group dungeon.

with all available dungeons to be soloed ive worked up to where i can solo 100% of normal and vets and even do some 3 or 4 HMs but it takes work and build demands to achieve and well enjoy the day when dungeons that are otherwise locked for me to solo becomes available

I hope that day comes!

Good luck, and congratulations! I am still working on soloing world bosses, but my build is a huge mess as I am just playing around with things to see what works for me.

I want solo dungeons these days because I'm tired of randoms bugging my quests out so I can't get skill points since they added boss pull to base dungeons. Running with friends is best, but sometimes no one wants to run Tempest with me to get skill points.

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Lekjih wrote: »

I want solo dungeons these days because I'm tired of randoms bugging my quests out so I can't get skill points since they added boss pull to base dungeons. Running with friends is best, but sometimes no one wants to run Tempest with me to get skill points.

what about tempest would you like see done to it to make it an solo dungeon ??

I'm not sure, but from my solo runs I would guess the minibosses. They are surprisingly tough compared to the actual bosses. Although they are still not that difficult, maybe those are stopping solo runs?

The lamia queen has a stun if you get caught in the scream. I suppose that could be lethal if you have the ads around you.
The second miniboss has a pretty strong bonk. Might one shot you if you are unprepared.
The third one has a million ads and if you are not quick to break free from the CC the ads might finish you off.

Maybe. And I confess I have also been bonked by the second miniboss in the beginning. Didn't realise how big the bonk is.

Taarente wrote: »

The reason ZOS is adding solo options isn’t to replace grouping.
It’s because the current experience often destroys the story anyway. one player sprinting ahead, skipping dialogue, killing bosses mid-scene, then leaving.
That’s not social play, it’s just efficiency griefing.
Solo versions let people engage with the narrative at their own pace, while group dungeons still exist for people who want them.

Volenfell is still bugged by the way and has been for... uh. 11-12 years??

You 99% of the time simply can't finish the quest. At all. Because a different player pulls the damn lever. And you get locked out. And god knows, somehow there is ALWAYS a different player in front of you, ALWAYS without the quest, ALWAYS rushing to ensure to pull it before you can. No, I've actually seen people ask for the quest in chat, I've seen people BEG to be allowed to pull the lever, only for some high CP troll in an ugly glowing outfit to wait right until the poor person gets to the lever, and pull it a second before they can.

And there are forum threads and reddit threads going all the way to game release, asking if this can be fixed, and for all those years now, ZoS blatantly ignores them all.

Questing in dungeons is, at times, literally broken. And if ZoS isn't willing to FIX what they BROKE in a different way. And god knows they've had a LOT of time and a LOT of opportunities. Then they should solve it in a different way. For example by making the dungeons solo. I don't care how they solve it at this point. Just solve it.

I will continue assuming that people against it, are the very same griefers who make those experiences so damn terrible and frustrating for everyone else. And those griefers deserve to lose this opportunity and I will be happy to continue observing their fruitless complaints on the forums. Sorry guys, you are not entitled to griefing.

frogthroat wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Lekjih wrote: »

I want solo dungeons these days because I'm tired of randoms bugging my quests out so I can't get skill points since they added boss pull to base dungeons. Running with friends is best, but sometimes no one wants to run Tempest with me to get skill points.

what about tempest would you like see done to it to make it an solo dungeon ??

I'm not sure, but from my solo runs I would guess the minibosses. They are surprisingly tough compared to the actual bosses. Although they are still not that difficult, maybe those are stopping solo runs?

The lamia queen has a stun if you get caught in the scream. I suppose that could be lethal if you have the ads around you.
The second miniboss has a pretty strong bonk. Might one shot you if you are unprepared.
The third one has a million ads and if you are not quick to break free from the CC the ads might finish you off.

Maybe. And I confess I have also been bonked by the second miniboss in the beginning. Didn't realise how big the bonk is.

Tempest = Tempest Island? I solo that one often, since it's one of the dozen or so dungeons that I'm able to solo (on Normal). I'm not sure what mechanics or bosses are preventing anyone from soloing it. But that said, maybe my two mains are tankier than the players who are having trouble soloing it? For me, the most annoying boss in that dungeon is the Storm Atronach-- not overly difficult to kill, just aggravating to deal with the mechanics and adds.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

jaekobcaed wrote: »

As someone who grew up playing old school MMOs (namely RuneScape but a few others) but now mostly solos the few online games I still play, my philosophy on solo content is this:

I'm all for solo content and I'm all for social content. Social content should be encouraged and it should be as seamless as possible without requiring a player to be a pro or get into a super active guild. In other words, if I want to do a dungeon, boss or a world activity, I should be able to just team up with players for that, then go on my way.

At the same time, while social gameplay should be encouraged, I don't believe it should be a requirement. Life is too short to have to spend hours to "git gud" at a game, find a group of serious people and play that way. I believe rewarding social gameplay is the ideal incentive, not punishment of solo players.

That said, when it comes to the solo dungeon concept... I'm honestly not against the idea. Some players want to soak in the atmosphere and follow the story. When was the last time you queued up and actually followed the story of the quests in a dungeon? Unless you're teaming up with friends who have a like mindset, you're going to end up left behind. Solo dungeons would allow you to take your time.

On the flip side, I do see the concerns. The game does seem to be gradually moving away from the mid-range, more seamless approach to social content and toward a more common "solo or serious social" approach. The more that casual, seamless social aspect disappears, the less I'll be playing the social content because, like I said, life is too short, I have less time for gaming than ever and I don't only play ESO, so I have no interest in going hardcore with guildies on the social content. I play for fun and relaxation.

Altogether, I'm pretty mixed on the concept.

If you are teaming up with friends you don’t get to enjoy the story either. If you travel in the dungeon, the questgiver is there but there is always a ton of dialogue options and you don’t want to make everyone stand there so you click, click, click and run on. When one boss is defeated everyone runs to the next one and any dialog there is missed. Even if you really want to hear the dialog when forced to interact with one of the npcs, you just click as fast as you can because everyone else has heard it and they are moving ahead and you will miss the next boss if you don’t. Even if they say they are okay with it you don’t want to make them wait just for you. I have over 2800 cp now and I still don’t know most of the stories behind these dungeons.

That… is not a general feeling.

I have every dungeon in the game, and I know every single story and have read every single lorebook in each of them. Why? Because my friends also care about the lore, so our first run is a lore run where we all specifically wait for each other to finish before we continue. And then even if the dungeon’s been out for a while, if someone in the guild requests a lore run if something, we can usually get a group together to allow them to do that.

But it requires friends who are on the same page as you.

I really really really suggest that anyone who thinks that they can never get the stories try looking at guilds like UESP and the Loreseekers. There are people in those guilds who are into the lore and will help out with doing lore runs at your pace.

Those would be PC guilds though, right?

zombievalen wrote: »

Today, this MMO is special; people play it as "Syrim Online." The community isn't toxic—in fact, it's great—but most are against raids and co-op.
It's incredible that an MMO community celebrates playing dungeons solo when you can play them in any offline game.
I think they should focus on making players need to socialize and cooperate more, and not just instance them alone... that's the essence of every MMO (like WoW, FF, etc.).
If they implement solo dungeons, random dungeons will disappear and the essence of the MMO as well.

> this MMO is special
> other MMOs force their players to do content that they don't want to do
> make this MMO more like other MMOs

the thought processes that some people have, I swear