Please do something about Wayshrine Guild Invite spam on PC-NA

Arunei · January 29

I have no horse in this race but it seems like damage control at this point to "come out publicly" as it were when this has apparently been going on for years with not a whisper of accountability prior. One can make all the claims they like of "so many people have thanked us for X or Y" but without any sort of proof to back it up, and the fact that there's so much negativity around the group od guilds, means pretty much no one will believe it.

Also, if accounts have been getting reported en masse for years...there's no way you guys wouldn't know, unless ZOS doesn’t bother to let people know when their accounts have been investigated from reports but no action taken.

And you can't put all the onus on other players for YOUR guilds' actions. You shouldn't be spamming invites. You shouldn't be expecting people to use addons. You shouldn't have to be at five guilds to avoid unsolicited invites. Ignore lists only have 100 slots and they shouldn't need to be taken by how many of your recruiters spamming invites.

And somehow I doubt your inviter has been broken for years, since it sounds like the spamming has been going on for a long time. Telling staff to stop using it, like most everything else in this post, just feels like damage control.

KCMail · January 29

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7513326#Comment_7513326 Four years later and the issue persists, Maybe the new leadership can handle it effectively this time. @ZOS_Kevin I think it's time for the team to actually take action, if it's not against TOS then it is time to remove guild invites from the addon API. I don't play on NA, I have 5 guilds, I am not someone who has to deal with this problem but I can say with confidence it hurts the guild system for all and hurts the community too. This is something that needs to be addressed and handled, not swept under the rug (again)

wolfie1.0. · January 29

Chance_25 wrote: »

Good afternoon, all.

I am the owner of the community in question.

Customer Support has already confirmed that our recruitment practices do not violate the Terms of Service or Code of Conduct. That said, I recognize that repeated invites can be annoying, and I apologize if the guilds have upset you with invites in the past. It is true that something within the addon broke, and yes, the staff have been directed to cease the use of it for the time being.

Yes, I developed an addon that blocks the invites. I recognize the pain point that new players, players that don’t use addons, and players that just haven’t heard about it will not be reached.
The notification the addon generates is intended as a brief apology and dismisses after a few seconds. Apologizing was the goal, not annoying people. I will remove the notification completely when I return from work.

It is true that the invites are our primary recruitment method. I am away from the game for about a year and a half on military orders, and when I return this spring/summer, I plan to pretty much raze the guilds to the ground and rebuild them. One of the things I want to do is to use other recruitment methods that prioritize natural engagements versus cold invites. I would much rather recruit members out of dungeons and trials than off the street.

The benefit of recruiting them off of the street is that we can teach them the game, bring them into content, and help them make friends. We have thousands of guild members we recruited off of the street that would not even be playing ESO anymore had we not found them. Some stay in ESO for friends within the guilds, and others stay because we helped them discover content they enjoy and would not have done prior. Our lives pretty much revolve around bringing people together and teaching the game. In addition to my absence, there are two more reasons that the staff are using invites as the primary recruitment method.

The first is reason is that we've been getting banned for zone-chat advertisements. No, not for the invites. For the zone chat advertisements. I've not heard of other guilds with their officers getting banned over zone chat advertisements, but our staff get suspensions whenever we get serious about replacing the invites with zone chat ads as an alternate method.

Secondly, we have many players pull us aside and thank us for the invites, and these members turn out to amazing guildmates. In fact, after an exchange with someone in this thread above, members online that joined from the invites rallied and chimed in about how grateful they were and encouraged us to continue them, confessing that they would not even be Elder Scrolls Online players anymore if not for the invite. The people that join from a cold invite end up with a nearly unanimous gratitude that they did. We offer everything that a guild can possibly offer in this game, plus more. Many of the players that we find this way wouldn’t have the chance at understanding the complexity of ESO without a mentor to guide them or stayed playing the game long-term without a friend group, and thanks to the invite, they have found their people. We are able to help and support them in learning the game, subsequently making not only our community healthier, but the game’s community as well.

If anyone here is annoyed by the invites, I do sincerely apologize for them getting in your way.

In closing, I do agree that a “decline all guild invites” option native to the game’s UI would be a good idea.

Why wait? You posted here so why not direct your officers to stop using the addon?

hiyde · January 29

Literally every other guild in the game is able to build vibrant communities without hiding in the bushes spamming invites at everything that moves.

I'm sorry, but the answer here is to stop using this automation immediately.

As I suggested earlier in this thread, ZOS needs to take action against the guilds & guild leadership if use of this automation continues, especially with no reliable way to get the invites to stop. *Leadership* of these guilds are distributing the addon. *Leadership* of these guilds is encouraging members (most of which are new to the game and don't know better) to use this automation to spam everyone in sight.

I don't know how this is any different than teabagging, mudballing, etc. ZOS' stance on that has been "If you ask them to stop; and they don't, that's actionable, put in a ticket". Yet tickets in this scenario are being ignored. We've seen plenty of examples of people who've directly asked the guilds for the invite spam to stop yet they haven't. Any sanctions that don't deal directly with the people responsible for the addon & pressuring guildies to use it is pretty meaningless.

As someone who runs and recruits for two large guilds, I don't love the idea of turning off manual invites but if that's what is needed, I can live with it (but to be effective, this has to be activated by default or it's fairly useless.

@ZOS_Kevin

DeathandDebauchery · January 29

Dolgubon wrote: »

Imo, if you know the GM: then report the GM of the guild(s) doing this, in addition to the people sending the invites, since the invite strategy is coming from them.

It seems guilds with this strategy are using an add-on to send the invites, and that add-on is broken and sending too many invites. They immediately stopped using it right? Of course not, instead they make an add-on that pops up an annoying 'apology' that the user has to dismiss.

Edit: apparently, the add-on description has been edited to remove mention of a broken auto invite add-on, after they were called out on it in the add-on comments, and they deleted the call out comment.

Arguably, the guild invite API is being abused by this group of guilds. It could be set as private by ZOS, which would prevent add-ons from inviting users to guilds. It wouldn't stop them from manually sending invites, but it would stop the add-on abuse.

This right here is an incredible indication of how much of a bad actor this guild leader (and their guilds) are. This guild is absolutely abusing the guild invite API. And TBH, I dont think it would be a big loss if they turned this feature off. Its not that hard to invite someone using all the other available options in-game.

The post that Chance made on his add-on (and posting an add-on to prevent his add-on from being terrible) is such a clear evidence of him being a bad actor.

DeathandDebauchery · January 29

Chance_25 wrote: »

Customer Support has already confirmed that our recruitment practices do not violate the Terms of Service or Code of Conduct. That said, I recognize that repeated invites can be annoying, and I apologize if the guilds have upset you with invites in the past. It is true that something within the addon broke, and yes, the staff have been directed to cease the use of it for the time being.

Yes, I developed an addon that blocks the invites. I recognize the pain point that new players, players that don’t use addons, and players that just haven’t heard about it will not be reached.
The notification the addon generates is intended as a brief apology and dismisses after a few seconds. Apologizing was the goal, not annoying people. I will remove the notification completely when I return from work.

It is true that the invites are our primary recruitment method. I am away from the game for about a year and a half on military orders, and when I return this spring/summer, I plan to pretty much raze the guilds to the ground and rebuild them. One of the things I want to do is to use other recruitment methods that prioritize natural engagements versus cold invites. I would much rather recruit members out of dungeons and trials than off the street.

The benefit of recruiting them off of the street is that we can teach them the game, bring them into content, and help them make friends. We have thousands of guild members we recruited off of the street that would not even be playing ESO anymore had we not found them. Some stay in ESO for friends within the guilds, and others stay because we helped them discover content they enjoy and would not have done prior. Our lives pretty much revolve around bringing people together and teaching the game. In addition to my absence, there are two more reasons that the staff are using invites as the primary recruitment method.

The first is reason is that we've been getting banned for zone-chat advertisements. No, not for the invites. For the zone chat advertisements. I've not heard of other guilds with their officers getting banned over zone chat advertisements, but our staff get suspensions whenever we get serious about replacing the invites with zone chat ads as an alternate method.

Secondly, we have many players pull us aside and thank us for the invites, and these members turn out to amazing guildmates. In fact, after an exchange with someone in this thread above, members online that joined from the invites rallied and chimed in about how grateful they were and encouraged us to continue them, confessing that they would not even be Elder Scrolls Online players anymore if not for the invite. The people that join from a cold invite end up with a nearly unanimous gratitude that they did. We offer everything that a guild can possibly offer in this game, plus more. Many of the players that we find this way wouldn’t have the chance at understanding the complexity of ESO without a mentor to guide them or stayed playing the game long-term without a friend group, and thanks to the invite, they have found their people. We are able to help and support them in learning the game, subsequently making not only our community healthier, but the game’s community as well.

If anyone here is annoyed by the invites, I do sincerely apologize for them getting in your way.

In closing, I do agree that a “decline all guild invites” option native to the game’s UI would be a good idea.

@ZOS_Kevin I really would love to see your official response to this. This guild leader is doubling down that what they are doing is ZoS approved.

This is absolutely unacceptable.

Arunei · January 29

Chance_25 wrote: »

Good afternoon, all.

I am the owner of the community in question.

Customer Support has already confirmed that our recruitment practices do not violate the Terms of Service or Code of Conduct. That said, I recognize that repeated invites can be annoying, and I apologize if the guilds have upset you with invites in the past. It is true that something within the addon broke, and yes, the staff have been directed to cease the use of it for the time being.

Yes, I developed an addon that blocks the invites. I recognize the pain point that new players, players that don’t use addons, and players that just haven’t heard about it will not be reached.
The notification the addon generates is intended as a brief apology and dismisses after a few seconds. Apologizing was the goal, not annoying people. I will remove the notification completely when I return from work.

It is true that the invites are our primary recruitment method. I am away from the game for about a year and a half on military orders, and when I return this spring/summer, I plan to pretty much raze the guilds to the ground and rebuild them. One of the things I want to do is to use other recruitment methods that prioritize natural engagements versus cold invites. I would much rather recruit members out of dungeons and trials than off the street.

The benefit of recruiting them off of the street is that we can teach them the game, bring them into content, and help them make friends. We have thousands of guild members we recruited off of the street that would not even be playing ESO anymore had we not found them. Some stay in ESO for friends within the guilds, and others stay because we helped them discover content they enjoy and would not have done prior. Our lives pretty much revolve around bringing people together and teaching the game. In addition to my absence, there are two more reasons that the staff are using invites as the primary recruitment method.

The first is reason is that we've been getting banned for zone-chat advertisements. No, not for the invites. For the zone chat advertisements. I've not heard of other guilds with their officers getting banned over zone chat advertisements, but our staff get suspensions whenever we get serious about replacing the invites with zone chat ads as an alternate method.

Secondly, we have many players pull us aside and thank us for the invites, and these members turn out to amazing guildmates. In fact, after an exchange with someone in this thread above, members online that joined from the invites rallied and chimed in about how grateful they were and encouraged us to continue them, confessing that they would not even be Elder Scrolls Online players anymore if not for the invite. The people that join from a cold invite end up with a nearly unanimous gratitude that they did. We offer everything that a guild can possibly offer in this game, plus more. Many of the players that we find this way wouldn’t have the chance at understanding the complexity of ESO without a mentor to guide them or stayed playing the game long-term without a friend group, and thanks to the invite, they have found their people. We are able to help and support them in learning the game, subsequently making not only our community healthier, but the game’s community as well.

If anyone here is annoyed by the invites, I do sincerely apologize for them getting in your way.

In closing, I do agree that a “decline all guild invites” option native to the game’s UI would be a good idea.

Another thing, I checked post history and there was a post you made back in Feb 2022, where you use the exact same terminology about "people have thanked us" and "member rallied and chimed in after someone said something mean". The fact that the same verbiage was used in a post over three years ago makes it feel like there's a template post that just gets edited or something.

You also claimed in that post that random invites had been tbe primary method of recruiting but that you'd moved away from that in favor of other recruitment methods, but then in the same post double back and claim you'd still be relying heavily on random invites. Over three years later, it doesn't seem like you've changed tactics. Going back to the previous point you claimed back then that you've had members get banned for zone recruitment, and it has practically the same verbiage as the claim here.

Yet people don't get banned for zone recruitment unless they're spamming the heck out of chat with it and get mass reported for it, because slews of guilds (including two RP guilds I'm in) regularly do zone ads, as have others I've been in in the past, and not a single person doing the posting has once been banned in the years I've been RPing.

AlienatedGoat · January 29

Chance_25 wrote: »

Yes, I developed an addon that blocks the invites. I recognize the pain point that new players, players that don’t use addons, and players that just haven’t heard about it will not be reached.
The notification the addon generates is intended as a brief apology and dismisses after a few seconds. Annoying people was not the goal. I will remove the notification completely when I return from work.

My kid gets harassed by your guild invites daily while she's running through Vulkhel Guard. Every day she expresses frustration to me at the invite spam she gets sent by your bots. Let that sink in for a minute. A kid is being harassed, and your guild is the cause. Is this what you want your guild to be associated with?

I'm not installing your addon. It's enough that you created this problem and then have the audacity to peddle your addon as the solution. But I also simply don't trust you or your guild. No other guild behaves the way your guild does, so there is no excuse for it.

The kicker here is that after all of this pushback your takeaway is that since you're technically not abusing TOS, that a couple of half-hearted apologies will somehow make this behavior acceptable. I unequivocally disagree.

sshogrin · January 29

Chance_25 wrote: »

Good afternoon, all.

I am the owner of the community in question.

Customer Support has already confirmed that our recruitment practices do not violate the Terms of Service or Code of Conduct. That said, I recognize that repeated invites can be annoying, and I apologize if the guilds have upset you with invites in the past. It is true that something within the addon broke, and yes, the staff have been directed to cease the use of it for the time being.

Yes, I developed an addon that blocks the invites. I recognize the pain point that new players, players that don’t use addons, and players that just haven’t heard about it will not be reached.
The notification the addon generates is intended as a brief apology and dismisses after a few seconds. Apologizing was the goal, not annoying people. I will remove the notification completely when I return from work.

It is true that the invites are our primary recruitment method. I am away from the game for about a year and a half on military orders, and when I return this spring/summer, I plan to pretty much raze the guilds to the ground and rebuild them. One of the things I want to do is to use other recruitment methods that prioritize natural engagements versus cold invites. I would much rather recruit members out of dungeons and trials than off the street.

The benefit of recruiting them off of the street is that we can teach them the game, bring them into content, and help them make friends. We have thousands of guild members we recruited off of the street that would not even be playing ESO anymore had we not found them. Some stay in ESO for friends within the guilds, and others stay because we helped them discover content they enjoy and would not have done prior. Our lives pretty much revolve around bringing people together and teaching the game. In addition to my absence, there are two more reasons that the staff are using invites as the primary recruitment method.

The first is reason is that we've been getting banned for zone-chat advertisements. No, not for the invites. For the zone chat advertisements. I've not heard of other guilds with their officers getting banned over zone chat advertisements, but our staff get suspensions whenever we get serious about replacing the invites with zone chat ads as an alternate method.

Secondly, we have many players pull us aside and thank us for the invites, and these members turn out to amazing guildmates. In fact, after an exchange with someone in this thread above, members online that joined from the invites rallied and chimed in about how grateful they were and encouraged us to continue them, confessing that they would not even be Elder Scrolls Online players anymore if not for the invite. The people that join from a cold invite end up with a nearly unanimous gratitude that they did. We offer everything that a guild can possibly offer in this game, plus more. Many of the players that we find this way wouldn’t have the chance at understanding the complexity of ESO without a mentor to guide them or stayed playing the game long-term without a friend group, and thanks to the invite, they have found their people. We are able to help and support them in learning the game, subsequently making not only our community healthier, but the game’s community as well.

If anyone here is annoyed by the invites, I do sincerely apologize for them getting in your way.

In closing, I do agree that a “decline all guild invites” option native to the game’s UI would be a good idea.

While ZOS has defended the auto invite bot addon, that does actually go against what addons can and can't do. It does specifically say that addons that are annoying to other players aren't acceptable. You need to go to the Wiki page for this and look that up. There are links on the ESOUI website to direct you to those pages.
Having burner accounts like you do with the auto invite addon going makes that account a bot in all reality, which actually does go against the ToS of the game, not just the addon ToS.

Even more crazy is that you've been aware of the harassment by your guild recruitment tactics and you've done nothing about it until "today".
If you had to create an addon specifically to block your other addon (the pop up is ridiculous and it should auto-decline instead of players having to interact with it), then you know for sure the other addon is a annoying and harassing others. That addon should actually be black listed by ZOS. You need to have every guild member uninstall that addon.
Having your guild members port around Tamriel or stay in a zone and spam zone chat with your guild advertisement is also annoying and harassment as well. I see a lot of guild advertisements in zone chat that are so long, it's a novel, and it actually disrupts zone chat to the point that zone chat becomes useless. In all reality guild advertisements in chat should be limited to the guild name and at most, 20 or 30 character for a "description".
Again, all that is annoying and really harassment to a lot of players. I would guess the reason why you've had guild members banned for zone chat is because the constant spamming all over Tamriel. Nobody wants to have that happen at all. It creates a toxic environment.
Now that you have been more than well informed on all of this, it's up to you, your officers, and guild members to respect others and change how you do things, period. It shouldn't be up to everybody else to put up with your guilds harassing everybody.

gariondavey · January 29

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

Chance_25 wrote: »

Yes, I developed an addon that blocks the invites. I recognize the pain point that new players, players that don’t use addons, and players that just haven’t heard about it will not be reached.
The notification the addon generates is intended as a brief apology and dismisses after a few seconds. Annoying people was not the goal. I will remove the notification completely when I return from work.

My kid gets harassed by your guild invites daily while she's running through Vulkhel Guard. Every day she expresses frustration to me at the invite spam she gets sent by your bots. Let that sink in for a minute. A kid is being harassed, and your guild is the cause. Is this what you want your guild to be associated with?

I'm not installing your addon. It's enough that you created this problem and then have the audacity to peddle your addon as the solution. But I also simply don't trust you or your guild. No other guild behaves the way your guild does, so there is no excuse for it.

The kicker here is that after all of this pushback your takeaway is that since you're technically not abusing TOS, that a couple of half-hearted apologies will somehow make this behavior acceptable. I unequivocally disagree.

While I'm not defending what this GM or his invite bots are doing, I don't think using your child (in a mature rated game) getting invites is the right move

Morvan · January 29

Chance_25 wrote: »

The benefit of recruiting them off of the street is that we can teach them the game, bring them into content, and help them make friends. We have thousands of guild members we recruited off of the street that would not even be playing ESO anymore had we not found them. Some stay in ESO for friends within the guilds, and others stay because we helped them discover content they enjoy and would not have done prior. Our lives pretty much revolve around bringing people together and teaching the game. In addition to my absence, there are two more reasons that the staff are using invites as the primary recruitment method.

I was one of them, I got recruited by one of your bots, completely unaware of the automatized system, made friends while there, and still play with former members to this day.

But guess what? You don't need bots to make that happen, this is something that will happen in any guild, especially when you target beginners. It doesn't serve as an excuse for the fact your method of recruitment is obnoxious and detrimental for the game.

Guild recruitment is something that should involve a human, just imagine how chaotic it would be if every guild in the game adopted your methods, and every person got spammed by guild invites when stepping into a city, it's much more like you're obsessed by numbers than actually trying to build a healthy guild environment.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · January 29

I got a wayshrine guild invite the other day in Auridon. As soon as I clicked reject my game crashed. Coincidence or malicious?

JavaRen · January 29

Interesting how, out of "thousands" of happy guild members recruited by this spam method there has been -one- who has posted here, not to defend the spam method, but to argue against it.

Not certain what conclusion we should draw from this, but it seems noteworthy.

Desiato · January 29

@Chance_25 I don't know if you've heard, but ESO is pretty dead these days. So I'm not surprised you're having trouble filling 5 guilds!

In the past, you could probably fill your quotas more quickly and thus were less of a problem as you would have interacted with a lower percentage of the total PC/NA server pop.

However, these days, it's constant and has become untenable. Because there are fewer total players and you are trying to fill the same number of slots as before, the time between interactions has significantly decreased.

That is to say you are annoying individual players much more often than you would have before. You should recognize the negative impact you're having and just stop ASAP.

Do you remember browser pop-ups in the late 90s/early 2000s and how much everyone hated them? Well, you are that to PC/NA players.

Clearly you need to set more reasonable goals. It's rather absurd to claim you need to do this when you're trying to fill 5 guilds or however many you have.

I'm not trying to demonize your guild. It is not my cup of tea, but I have personally observed happy members who I know aren't brainwashed. To each their own. There is one issue here and it is the unsolicited invite spam.

Tandor · January 29

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all. When you see instances of this, could you take a screenshot and place a ticket. And then share the ticket number here as well. That way, if some of these are bots, we can take care of them. If these are other players, then we can also have a chat with them to see what is going on. We want to reduce harassment where possible and being able to properly identify issues is the first step for our customer service team to assist.

Given the scale of this issue, namely the number of threads/posts/tickets and the number of years they span, might it not be a situation where the guilds/GMs/Officers could have their accounts suspended while further investigation takes place? We've seen plenty of players permanently banned without warning on a lot less evidence and yet you guys are still asking us to provide you with the evidence you've already had for years! And this is happening at a time when you tell us you're determined to listen to what the players are telling you!

Do you not hold the same level of disciplinary records against guilds as you hold against players? At the very least, given the scale of these complaints could you not suspend in one thread only the "no shaming" policy so posters can openly tell you who they're complaining about without having to submit private tickets that only ever receive "no violation" responses? You could even invite the guild group concerned to reply openly to the complaints.

Surely you must have seen enough complaints over the years to know that there's a real issue here... Yet every time it's raised, the answer is the same - submit more evidence and we'll look into it. To be blunt, we're well past that.

ZOS_Hadeostry · January 29

Hey,

Let's make sure we are keeping to the topic at hand and discussing that topic specifically. We have removed a few recent posts that were not sticking to that topic.

Pevey · January 29

Chance_25 wrote: »

Good afternoon, all.

I am the owner of the community in question.

Customer Support has already confirmed that our recruitment practices do not violate the Terms of Service or Code of Conduct. That said, I recognize that repeated invites can be annoying, and I apologize if the guilds have upset you with invites in the past. It is true that something within the addon broke, and yes, the staff have been directed to cease the use of it for the time being.

<snip>

The first is reason is that we've been getting banned for zone-chat advertisements. No, not for the invites. For the zone chat advertisements. I've not heard of other guilds with their officers getting banned over zone chat advertisements, but our staff get suspensions whenever we get serious about replacing the invites with zone chat ads as an alternate method.

Secondly, we have many players pull us aside and thank us for the invites, and these members turn out to amazing guildmates. In fact, after an exchange with someone in this thread above, members online that joined from the invites rallied and chimed in about how grateful they were and encouraged us to continue them, confessing that they would not even be Elder Scrolls Online players anymore if not for the invite. The people that join from a cold invite end up with a nearly unanimous gratitude that they did. We offer everything that a guild can possibly offer in this game, plus more. Many of the players that we find this way wouldn’t have the chance at understanding the complexity of ESO without a mentor to guide them or stayed playing the game long-term without a friend group, and thanks to the invite, they have found their people. We are able to help and support them in learning the game, subsequently making not only our community healthier, but the game’s community as well.

If anyone here is annoyed by the invites, I do sincerely apologize for them getting in your way.

In closing, I do agree that a “decline all guild invites” option native to the game’s UI would be a good idea.

There’s a lot to potentially respond to in this comment, but for now I’ll focus on a couple of points.

1) You state customer service has said your practices do not violate the TOS. But you also state the addon is currently “broken,” and only because of that it is sending invites to people who have previously declined them. Have you also made this claim to ZOS, and is that perhaps the reason no action has been taken? That statement is not consistent with my experience. I’ve played since beta, and your guild has NEVER honored a decline or whisper or even joining the guild and subsequently getting kicked for not complying. I assume there would be way too many users to add to your guild ban list for it to be feasible, by an order of magnitude. The recruitment method of blind invites is scummy, but the part that is a violation is the harassment. The ignoring of requests to stop.

2) You state you want to apologize, but it boils down more to “sorry, not sorry.” A apology does not also attempt to justify your actions. You are not apologizing, but instead using the same talking points you have used for years. It comes off as very disingenuous. A telemarketer caught violating laws against spam cannot use the argument, “But a few of our target actually bought the product, and some say they love it!! So what we are doing is good for everyone!” That’s not an apology.

(I’m also not surprised your zone adverts get mass reported. I don’t condone it, but I’m not surprised. Are you surprised? This is the reputation you have built for your guild over the years.)

ZOS_Hadeostry · January 29

Hey all,

After discussing this with Kevin, for now we are going to close this thread. We appreciate everyone's thoughts and feedback about this topic.

Keep an eye on this thread, as Kevin will be posting on it.

Thanks