Queuing for Cyro in IC when you have Tel Var - proposal

spartaxoxo · January 25

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Also, where was this suggested? Can’t find a mention.

It's in the pts patch notes

sshogrin · January 25

This Tel Var cap idea is incredibly stupid. You should be able to queue for Cyrodiil while in IC no matter how much Tel Var you have.

If ZOS really wants to implement this, then they need to put a stop to camping quest locations, sewer ladders, spawn points, and faction bases.

If they put a heavy dot that can't be purged and would the person would take severe damage that they can't heal through for staying too close to any of those locations, it would put an end to the gank cycle during these events.

They also need to change how the instant stealth pots works. If I'm in stealth from using crouch, I can take damage from an AOE and it exposes me. The same should be for stealth pots. They should also take damage from AOEs they are in when they go stealth. It seems like they can also use healing abilities and stay in stealth.

Ilumia · January 26

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Also, where was this suggested? Can’t find a mention.

It's in the pts patch notes

Wow, they really mean to do that. That makes me sad. I thought it was just some hardcore gankers fantasy.

That is actually a terrible change, I enjoy IC from time to time, but I will not play it after this. It is not compatible with any of the ways I enjoy it. As it is, I already loose tel var regularly. It's annoying, but there are some stakes in it, and that's ok, it's part of what makes it fun. Bit this change os just tedious, and it raises the barrier for skill and time spent to enjoy participating, far too much. If I can't jump in to do a quest, and then port to cyrodiil when I'm done, that is a deal breaker. It will also mean that I can't queue for grey host and do IC while I wait, or that I can roam the sewers until I get bored of it or run out of time, and then leave when it suits me. Even if they did decide an option where I lost half of my tel var to port out, I'd never go to IC again since I'd feel to cheated of what I managed to scrape up - which is meager enough outside of the 3-4 weeks of yearly events there.

If they offered other good ways of returning to base, it would be different. But even sprinting through the sewer if there wasn't a single mob, would be too bothersome. And then of course whatever teleport spot they offered would always be camped, so there would be that issue as well.

Long story short, terrible change that will ruin a part of the game for me.

spartaxoxo · January 26

Ilumia wrote: »

Long story short, terrible change that will ruin a part of the game for me.

I made a thread in the pts forum about maybe increasing the limit and others suggested potential alternatives as well. They said they would look into giving us some answers to some questions. So let's hope it at least undergoes some adjustments prior to live.

Also, someone tested it and you'll be able to accept a queue just not make a new one. So you could still queue into Greyhost if there's a long line and then accept queue when it's ready.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Hey @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom - since we're getting more back and forth with you guys and the devs during this PTS, I just wondered if zos might have anything to say on this issue?

I'm just curious to hear the thinking behind this change and whether there might be consideration of an alternative that would reduce the friction for players in terms of leaving IC, while still preventing abuse in terms of farming telvar and escaping from combat.

I realize it's probably not as pressing as a lot of other issues, but I do worry it will increase player frustration with IC and reduce interest in the zone even *more*. To make this complaint into a specific example, the other day I was working on fishing in IC and had to kill some NPC's that were spawning near some of the fishing locations - this pushed me up over 100 telvar.

The zone was totally dead at this time, I never even saw another player, so my only option to leave the zone at that point under the new system would have been to walk all the way back to base, or to walk around in circles looking for a wandering boss or actual player who would kill me for a blood port (my character is a bit strong to be killed easily by the regular NPC's), or to use a fairly expensive sigil of retreat, which I'd rather save for times when I actually have telvar to protect (and which many inexperienced players might not even have on them). It's not really compelling gameplay to have to find a workaround like sacrificing yourself to monsters just to leave a zone.

In some cases like this, it's not even about the telvar or wanting to avoid pvp - I just finished what I'm doing and I want out!

We’ll touch base with teams to get some answers.

katanagirl1 · January 26

I have a few of those things that transport you back to the base from the sewers, Sigils of Imperial Retreat. I found a source that says they are 10k tel var each from one of the npc vendors in the base. I have found a few in chests in the sewers.

I suppose it isn’t worth it for just doing the daily to turn in, though. I pick a quest that is in a district near a ladder to the sewers that is close to my base. I can usually run from the base of the ladder to the faction base door before the blue Sanctuary from the ladder wears off.

CatoUnchained · January 26

100 is too low. 1000 makes a lot more sense.

CoronHR · January 26

what a terrible idea. it was bad enough that you lose half your tel var if you die. i rarely play IC and this makes me want to play it even less

Vulkunne · January 26

From a farming perspective it's nice to just hit cap and auto-leave IC. Having to hit cap and then run all the way back to the base door(s) is going to be painful. I mean what about IC Prison district or those safe locations along the way? Surely you could also just port out from one of those.

It's something they're going to want to think about very carefully.

heimdall14_9 · January 26

i like this change i think it could be more Q friendly like 50% telvar cost for TP since IC was moved out of CYRODIIL free
ly being able to TP out ( something that was never ATTENDED for IC) to safety after killing someone with high amount of telvar has became the norm not the exploitable function ESO overlooked when removing IC from CYRODIIL in the 1ST place lets get it right as IC WAS NOT MADE WITH THE ATTENTION OF TPing OUT FREELY !!!!!!!! PAY 10k AP or make it to basecamp, thats the ATTENDED way of IC ... so adding TP for 50% telvar is the FAIR way to fix the EXPLOIT thats been covered up by an game FUNCTION for to long as it is

Vulkunne · January 26

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

i like this change i think it could be more Q friendly like 50% telvar cost for TP since IC was moved out of CYRODIIL free
ly being able to TP out ( something that was never ATTENDED for IC) to safety after killing someone with high amount of telvar has became the norm not the exploitable function ESO overlooked when removing IC from CYRODIIL in the 1ST place lets get it right as IC WAS NOT MADE WITH THE ATTENTION OF TPing OUT FREELY !!!!!!!! PAY 10k AP or make it to basecamp, thats the ATTENDED way of IC ... so adding TP for 50% telvar is the FAIR way to fix the EXPLOIT thats been covered up by an game FUNCTION for to long as it is

Well, my question is thusly, are they going to allow players to continue to port out of Cyrodiil?

If so, then we need to do a vibe check. Are we preventing players from porting out of IC to punish them for farming (or questing) or are we doing this to correct an issue that breaks things from either a Technical or Continuity perspective?

I think the reason for doing this has to be in the right place first.

From experience, I have seen firsthand how annoying it can be for people to just port away almost the very *instant* they get attacked. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if some had scripts directing the game to do this for them if attacked by any player. That said, yeah, I have known about this 'portal out' trick for years, back then it was just myself and very few others, we only used to do this when absolutely necessary. But like I have always said, people will ruin a good thing and they did not disappoint.

Just as a case in point, there was this one time I killed a bunch of DC farmers in IC sewers. Not even 5 minutes later this pose of DC sweats showed up (I call them enforcers lol) and I was too afraid to move

. They was streaking and running wild down there, must have been at least 10 of more. It was madness but then again, it was totally worth it and even with the portal to Cyrdodiil trick I still barely made it out of there. Another minute or so and they would have found me for sure. Later I learned they even had a spotter from my Alliance watching the exits so yeah.

heimdall14_9 · January 26

Vulkunne wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

i like this change i think it could be more Q friendly like 50% telvar cost for TP since IC was moved out of CYRODIIL free
ly being able to TP out ( something that was never ATTENDED for IC) to safety after killing someone with high amount of telvar has became the norm not the exploitable function ESO overlooked when removing IC from CYRODIIL in the 1ST place lets get it right as IC WAS NOT MADE WITH THE ATTENTION OF TPing OUT FREELY !!!!!!!! PAY 10k AP or make it to basecamp, thats the ATTENDED way of IC ... so adding TP for 50% telvar is the FAIR way to fix the EXPLOIT thats been covered up by an game FUNCTION for to long as it is

Well, my question is thusly, are they going to allow players to continue to port out of Cyrodiil?

If so, then we need to do a vibe check. Are we preventing players from porting out of IC to punish them for farming (or questing) or are we doing this to correct an issue that breaks things from either a Technical or Continuity perspective?

I think the reason for doing this has to be in the right place first.

From experience, I have seen firsthand how annoying it can be for people to just port away almost the very *instant* they get attacked. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if some had scripts directing the game to do this for them if attacked by any player. That said, yeah, I have known about this for years, as well as a few others, back we only used to do this when absolutely necessary. But like I have always said, people will ruin a good thing and they did not disappoint.

playing on PSN not PC ive never heard it put this way and since have i now see that its an even BIGGER EXPLOIT over there damn scripting to TP out when damaged WOW thats sad , and IDK if they plan to tackle TPing out of CYRODIIL tho i hope they do soon because its getting to be just as bad there as in IC

cyclonus11 · January 26

Vulkunne wrote: »

From experience, I have seen firsthand how annoying it can be for people to just port away almost the very *instant* they get attacked. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if some had scripts directing the game to do this for them if attacked by any player. That said, yeah, I have known about this 'portal out' trick for years, back then it was just myself and very few others, we only used to do this when absolutely necessary. But like I have always said, people will ruin a good thing and they did not disappoint.

Porting out takes way too long for this to work

Most likely, they queued a while ago and the port just happened to kick in right when they were attacked. I've had this happen once or twice - waiting for the accept prompt, then waiting for the port to happen. Then right when someone finds me, I go *poof* lol

I think a better option is to have the port process pause while you're in combat, then resume when out of combat.

Sythen88411 · January 27

I think if you que out you should loose half your telvar. Should be a message that pops up to let you know and are you sure

sshogrin · January 27

If we're going to do this Tel Var thing, they have to do something about camping quest, ladders, base, and spawn points.
They also need to do something about stealth pots.
You can't just target porting out of IC to Cyro and not do anything about these other exploits. If you want to say that those exploits is a "tactic" in the game play, then I'd argue porting out of IC falls under the same umbrella.
Stealth pots are pretty much the same as porting out of IC. Players take zero damage, even when in an AOE.

CalamityCat · January 27

I'd be able to live with the 100 tel var limit, but I'd prefer it to be something like 1k just to be less annoying.

I'd also ask that we get the option to quickly destroy some/all of the tel var we're carrying, so we can still quickly queue out, but sacrifice that tel var to do so. Because sometimes you want to just get out quickly

reazea · January 27

LPapirius wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

1000 telvars would make more sense anyway. Who ports to Cyro to save less than 500 telvars?

I think the cap of 1000 tel var makes a lot more sense for a number of reasons.

For years my routine has been to do one IC zone quest/day, then port to Cyrodiil. A cap of less than 1000 tel var to port to Cyrodiil would make me just not go to IC daily because it will become too much hassle.

@ZOS_Kevin

Yep, make it 1000 tel var instead of 100 please. Either that or make the retreat sigils only cost 1k AP instead of 10k.

Abelon · January 27

Outside of a few events, IC is a dead game mode. It could be great, it could be fun, it could be populated, etc etc, but it is not.

And so the devs decided that... well duh... they're gonna make it even MORE dead!

Makes sense.

Anyways. This is a completely wrong approach, or rather the ORDER of the different actions in this approach is completely wrong. If you want to improve IC and make it more fun to play, then you should start with the actually important issues, of which there are hundreds, all of which have significantly higher priority. Only once most of those are fixed, do you start tweaking these kinds of ultra minor things which once tweaked, will frustrate a LOT of players and discourage them from playing. Because if all those other things are not fixed, and IC is not fun, and it's barely populated, and all the rest, then this change will only make it worse. Only if you improve it first and ensure that it is otherwise an experience worth staying for, only then will people maybe, just maybe, still stick with it despite not being able to queue out.

But I guess we will as always, first try the worst option and then be very, very confused as to why it could have possibly delivered bad results.

lillybit · January 27

I can't really see a positive result for anyone from keeping it at 100. PvPers and farmers will still find a way, and casuals will just stay out instead so gankers lose their easy targets.

I only go there for tickets anyway, but it'll be much easier to do all the dailies on a couple of alts between events when it's dead from now on. That way I'll never have to step out of the base during Mayhem.

Problem solved

Ilumia · 6:24AM

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Ilumia wrote: »

Long story short, terrible change that will ruin a part of the game for me.

I made a thread in the pts forum about maybe increasing the limit and others suggested potential alternatives as well. They said they would look into giving us some answers to some questions. So let's hope it at least undergoes some adjustments prior to live.

Also, someone tested it and you'll be able to accept a queue just not make a new one. So you could still queue into Greyhost if there's a long line and then accept queue when it's ready.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Hey @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom - since we're getting more back and forth with you guys and the devs during this PTS, I just wondered if zos might have anything to say on this issue?

I'm just curious to hear the thinking behind this change and whether there might be consideration of an alternative that would reduce the friction for players in terms of leaving IC, while still preventing abuse in terms of farming telvar and escaping from combat.

I realize it's probably not as pressing as a lot of other issues, but I do worry it will increase player frustration with IC and reduce interest in the zone even *more*. To make this complaint into a specific example, the other day I was working on fishing in IC and had to kill some NPC's that were spawning near some of the fishing locations - this pushed me up over 100 telvar.

The zone was totally dead at this time, I never even saw another player, so my only option to leave the zone at that point under the new system would have been to walk all the way back to base, or to walk around in circles looking for a wandering boss or actual player who would kill me for a blood port (my character is a bit strong to be killed easily by the regular NPC's), or to use a fairly expensive sigil of retreat, which I'd rather save for times when I actually have telvar to protect (and which many inexperienced players might not even have on them). It's not really compelling gameplay to have to find a workaround like sacrificing yourself to monsters just to leave a zone.

In some cases like this, it's not even about the telvar or wanting to avoid pvp - I just finished what I'm doing and I want out!

We’ll touch base with teams to get some answers.

Thank you for enlightening me, I appreciate that

An increased cap is ofc better than this very low one. But it will also mean that of I do manage to actually catch a rare bit of fun, and kill something that yields rewards. I'll be punished for that. Sometimes (outside event times), I've bumped into a wandering boss, and gotten it off to someplace to try and kill, it hasn't always worked and I've died, for me they're hard to solo. Sometimes someone joins me or kills me. Sometimes someone from another faction helps me take it down, those are some of my favorite moments in the entire game. But sometimes someone waits for me to kill it, and the second I do they jump and try to kill me. Porting out doesn't combat that gameplay very well, as it takes too long. And I am not suggesting that they're doing anything against the rules. It's just in bad taste in my opinion, and that is the people that are favorised by zos'es change.

The TL/DR: The IC casuals like me, we'll be keeping out because it gets inconvenient and there's suddenly a large time sink in having to get back out of IC, and the risk of IC gets even higher than it already is. Campers, who often cost others a lot of grief, will benefit.

cyberjanet · 7:29AM

I go into IC to rescue Imperial citizens for an event ticket. I don't know what Tel Var stones are, nor what they're used for, and I don't really care. Just another one of these never-ending currencies the game is obsessed with.

I never knew how to get out of IC without dying so I could get to a base, so going to Cyrodiil to get my two event tickets there works for me. If there isn't a way to get out, it's only one event ticket. I can do without it.

imPDA · 9:32AM

Once again, seems like some more new players arrived to discuss this topic here, so once again, IC was not intended to be a place with easy escape. I don't want to tell the history of changes, but current queue is a bug what players tried to change for a long time, and many of them left before this change implemented. It is hard change for newbies but take it as a bugfix and this is how IC designed initially: you have to reach certain point to extract (base) and save what you gained or lose half of it.

There always was intended way to evacuate fast:

It is not very cheap, but it is cheap.

It is OK this location repels PvE players and new players, etc. It is PvP location after all, and it is high end content, like trials. As in trials, if you are bad, only good group will help you to pass it. That is why there are guilds with IC raids btw, you can starts playing IC with them.

You don't have to play IC or do quests in it just because they exist after all.

Ilumia · 10:02AM

imPDA wrote: »

Once again, seems like some more new players arrived to discuss this topic here, so once again, IC was not intended to be a place with easy escape. I don't want to tell the history of changes, but current queue is a bug what players tried to change for a long time, and many of them left before this change implemented. It is hard change for newbies but take it as a bugfix and this is how IC designed initially: you have to reach certain point to extract (base) and save what you gained or lose half of it.

There always was intended way to evacuate fast:

It is not very cheap, but it is cheap.

It is OK this location repels PvE players and new players, etc. It is PvP location after all, and it is high end content, like trials. As in trials, if you are bad, only good group will help you to pass it. That is why there are guilds with IC raids btw, you can starts playing IC with them.

You don't have to play IC or do quests in it just because they exist after all.

No one is ever required to play trials for event tickets.
Also, pve quests (some of them actual story quests that are part of the main stories) and objectives exist in IC.

I am not against having to earn the tickets or rewards, but I am pointing out that this change significantly raises the requirements to participate, both when it comes to time spent on daily quests for instance, but also how much better you have to get to enjoy the rewards.
This change raises the floor, thereby cutting off, or putting off even more players.

BioBitter100 · 10:05AM

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Having gone into IC for event. I tried to follow this rule. Its a sheer pain with this limit.

^this

After playing a lot of IC in the past week I actually would prefer if you simply need to get to a safe zone to queue, regardless of Tel Var. Cause the stuck in combat bug is still going rampant and I had many situations where I had 10k+ stones where I couldn´t even have used a port stone simply cause I was stuck in combat for 5+ minutes cause I light attacked someone 3 minutes earlier.
Needing to be in a safe zone, which you can enter while being stuck in combat, would mean you´d still have to leave the fight legitimately and can´t just port out of a fight. I feel like that would be a good middle ground.

*Edit for quote*

BioBitter100 · 10:06AM

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Also, where was this suggested? Can’t find a mention.

The Tel Var port change is on the pts at the moment.

frogthroat · 10:48AM

imPDA wrote: »

It is OK this location repels PvE players and new players, etc. It is PvP location after all, and it is high end content, like trials. As in trials, if you are bad, only good group will help you to pass it. That is why there are guilds with IC raids btw, you can starts playing IC with them.

When was the last time you had to do a trial for event tickets? Or anything at all that requires a guild or even a group?

In the current event, PVE players have to go to two different PVP areas to get the tickets. Both require venturing out in the wild where they might have to do PVP, even though the quest leading to the ticket is PVE. And in case they come across with enemy players, their PVE build is not going to work.

In the previous event, PVP players had to go to a PVE zone to light a candle. And in case they come across with a stray overland enemy, their PVP build is more than capable to handle it.

Not really a proportional effort for the tickets.

When you do a quest in IC for the tickets, you will probably accumulate some telvar. More than a hundred, but less than 500. There's no proper reason why a PVE player during the event shouldn't be allowed to port away after they have completed the PVE quest in IC.

That's why I think a limit of 1000 would be sufficient. You can still do the quest to get the tickets, and unless you kill a boss you won't have enough telvars to disable porting. And if you kill an enemy player to gain the 1000 telvars... well, obviously you don't need the port option.

imPDA · 10:59AM

frogthroat wrote: »

In the previous event, PVP players had to go to a PVE zone to light a candle.

I am sorry for ZOs to create such easy tasks all around the game and turning it into tamagotchi, where you have to log in every day to feed the horse, do dailies and then you can farm some sets in dungeons and even pass high end content with HA builds or arcanist beam builds with 0 brain activity involved into this. I wish they create equally hard content for PvE and PvP, that would make game fun again and achievements would gain meaning again.

Do you want to make event for PvE players in trials? I am voting "Yes, please", if it will make you to stop complaining about IC difficulty.