Quest Camping in PvP Zones

sshogrin · January 27

Quest Camping in PvP Zones needs to be dealt with.
The devs want to mess with porting out of IC with more than 100 Tel Var, but apparently quest camping in PvP zones is more than okay. Camping ladders and the base doors in IC is okay. Instant stealth pots (major exploit to stop taking damage) is okay, but porting out of IC using a queue is somehow a problem?
If porting out of IC is an "exploit", then so are the stealth pots and camping quest areas/ladders/base/etc.
Something needs to be done about this, especially during these events.

robwolf666 · January 27

It's always been a problem in Cyrodiil and IC, and one of the main reasons I've said for a long time that there should be a PvE instance for those wanting to do the quests, get skydhards etc unhindered by the selfish who don't give a monkies about that kind of thing.

DestroyerPewnack · January 27

Yeah, but from the ganker's perspective, it's hilarious to watch confused PvE players, not knowing what hit them, for the millionth time at the same quest giver. 😂

The solution here is to go in prepared. It's not unreasonable to understand that you should prepare for the content you're about to do. Boost your health and crit resist stats. Slot on some heals, some stuns, some mobility abilities. Cyrodiil is not going to cater to your PvE needs, when it's specifically a PvP zone.

Another solution would be to sit out those events. They only happen twice a year, and literally all other events are PvE events. It's not a big deal.

Thumbless_Bot · January 27

[snip] It's a pvp zone So, whether you're farming mats or quests, you could, potentially, get attacked by another player... heavens to mergatroid even...
[edited for baiting]

coop500 · January 27

I feel that the two are not really easily comparable. The queue into Cryodiil is not an intended use of the mechanic, and thus WAS an exploit. Do I like it being fixed? No, but I can recognize that it wasn't intended. Even if I feel it now makes IC very unfair and not worth returning to if the change goes live as it is.

Personally I feel the queue should simply be disabled during combat, which would fix the core exploit without harming the system too much.

Potions however are an intended game mechanic. Balanced? That's something that can be argued, though not by me, however. But I will say that they are not really an exploit.

Gankers making things miserable by camping quest spots? Not an exploit either, just poor sportsmanship.
Say something in chat, there's a good chance that the real PvPers of the map in your faction will want to come and curbstomp the ganker.

sshogrin · January 27

coop500 wrote: »

I feel that the two are not really easily comparable. The queue into Cryodiil is not an intended mechanic, and thus WAS an exploit. Do I like it being fixed? No, but I can recognize that it wasn't intended. Even if I feel it now makes IC very unfair and not worth returning to if the change goes live as it is.

Personally I feel the queue should simply be disabled during combat, which would fix the core exploit without harming the system too much.

Potions however are an intended game mechanic. Balanced? That's something that can be argued, though not by me, however. But I will say that they are not really an exploit.

Gankers making things miserable by camping quest spots? Not an exploit either, just poor sportsmanship.
Say something in chat, there's a good chance that the real PvPers of the map in your faction will want to come and curbstomp the ganker.

queueing for an instance is an intended game mechanic in reality. People queue out for various reasons. Whether they intended it to be used for some reasons is a whatever...where the instant stealth pots intended to be a way to not take damage or get hit and exposed by an AOE? I would argue that it wasn't intended for that and is an exploit. I would also argue that queueing out of IC isn't an exploit either. You don't get an instant port, it takes time, period. At a minimum, it's around 5 seconds, and in some cases depending on the Cyro instance you queue to, it could be hours.

People can argue "exploit" all they want, it's not really an exploit, it's part of the game...like people just camping quest, ladder, base doors, and spawn points.

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

Yeah, but from the ganker's perspective, it's hilarious to watch confused PvE players, not knowing what hit them, for the millionth time at the same quest giver. 😂

The solution here is to go in prepared. It's not unreasonable to understand that you should prepare for the content you're about to do. Boost your health and crit resist stats. Slot on some heals, some stuns, some mobility abilities. Cyrodiil is not going to cater to your PvE needs, when it's specifically a PvP zone.

Another solution would be to sit out those events. They only happen twice a year, and literally all other events are PvE events. It's not a big deal.

I understand it's a PvP zone, but in reality stealth ganking or camping quest areas isn't an "intended" part of the game as some might argue.
It's much easier for a PvP player to do the PvE events than the other way around, so in reality your argument isn't a good one.

coop500 · January 27

I don't agree with the aspects of the queue, it very much wasn't intended to be used to escape combat in IC, that much is pretty universal.

However this: "It's much easier for a PvP player to do the PvE events than the other way around, so in reality your argument isn't a good one."

I AM glad someone finally said this, I find it so annoying when people 'turn it around' as a gacha moment when it really isn't truly comparable. One is being totally stopped at taking part in the event unless they change their build, while the other is just not their kind of content, but don't have to change anything about their build to take part.

DestroyerPewnack · January 27

sshogrin wrote: »

I understand it's a PvP zone, but in reality stealth ganking or camping quest areas isn't an "intended" part of the game as some might argue.
It's much easier for a PvP player to do the PvE events than the other way around, so in reality your argument isn't a good one.

Stealth ganking is absolutely part of the game. It might be a part that you don't like, but it doesn't become "unintended" when there are multiple ways to acquire it and multiple ways to counter it, (skills, potions, sets, crouching and counter-crouching.) These numerous core mechanics are completely intended, have been adjusted over the years, and didn't happen by accident.

You can't call other people's arguments bad when your entire argument is "as some might argue." At least try to present an argument first, so that we can understand where you're coming from. 😂

Frayton · January 27

Funny thing is it's sometimes the PvE tourists killing each other. You can tell by the way they engage in combat. They don't do combat basics like dodge or block, they stand in red until they die, they mainly spam light or heavy attack, and they don't know what a flag is.

sshogrin · January 27

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

I understand it's a PvP zone, but in reality stealth ganking or camping quest areas isn't an "intended" part of the game as some might argue.
It's much easier for a PvP player to do the PvE events than the other way around, so in reality your argument isn't a good one.

Stealth ganking is absolutely part of the game. It might be a part that you don't like, but it doesn't become "unintended" when there are multiple ways to acquire it and multiple ways to counter it, (skills, potions, sets, crouching and counter-crouching.) These numerous core mechanics are completely intended, have been adjusted over the years, and didn't happen by accident.

You can't call other people's arguments bad when your entire argument is "as some might argue." At least try to present an argument first, so that we can understand where you're coming from. 😂

I don't think the devs intended for people to stealth gank during events like this, like at spawn points, quest areas, ladders, base doors, etc. That is what I'm saying.
You can't "counter crouch" after you've been hit, you can only try to use a stealth pot, which I don't think the devs intended those to be a way to get out of a fight either...maybe they did, and if so, then queueing for Cyro in IC shouldn't be an issue. Sometimes I don't want to take the time to run all the way back to the base when I'm gaming/questing, etc.

sshogrin · January 27

coop500 wrote: »

I don't agree with the aspects of the queue, it very much wasn't intended to be used to escape combat in IC, that much is pretty universal.

However this: "It's much easier for a PvP player to do the PvE events than the other way around, so in reality your argument isn't a good one."

I AM glad someone finally said this, I find it so annoying when people 'turn it around' as a gacha moment when it really isn't truly comparable. One is being totally stopped at taking part in the event unless they change their build, while the other is just not their kind of content, but don't have to change anything about their build to take part.

I don't think that it's being used to escape combat in IC as much as PvPers think. I think it's being used more as a time saver than anything else. You can't "instant queue" in IC for Cyro, it takes time, it takes time to actually even port out. It's not like you queue for a Cyro instance and you're gone. That's the part that a lot of people are missing.

Frayton · January 27

coop500 wrote: »

I AM glad someone finally said this, I find it so annoying when people 'turn it around' as a gacha moment when it really isn't truly comparable. One is being totally stopped at taking part in the event unless they change their build, while the other is just not their kind of content, but don't have to change anything about their build to take part.

PvP and PvE builds are different, so you have to change your build if it's a dungeon or trial event unless you don't care about any meaningful contribution to your group.

The worst dungeon and trial groups I've ever been in were people who just didn't care that their builds weren't suitable for the content. This goes for both PvErs and PvPers.

spartaxoxo · January 27

sshogrin wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

I don't agree with the aspects of the queue, it very much wasn't intended to be used to escape combat in IC, that much is pretty universal.

However this: "It's much easier for a PvP player to do the PvE events than the other way around, so in reality your argument isn't a good one."

I AM glad someone finally said this, I find it so annoying when people 'turn it around' as a gacha moment when it really isn't truly comparable. One is being totally stopped at taking part in the event unless they change their build, while the other is just not their kind of content, but don't have to change anything about their build to take part.

I don't think that it's being used to escape combat in IC as much as PvPers think. I think it's being used more as a time saver than anything else. You can't "instant queue" in IC for Cyro, it takes time, it takes time to actually even port out. It's not like you queue for a Cyro instance and you're gone. That's the part that a lot of people are missing.

It's only a few seconds and there's even as addon to make it even easier. It obviously needs to be changed.

DestroyerPewnack · January 27

coop500 wrote: »

I AM glad someone finally said this, I find it so annoying when people 'turn it around' as a gacha moment when it really isn't truly comparable. One is being totally stopped at taking part in the event unless they change their build, while the other is just not their kind of content, but don't have to change anything about their build to take part.

PvP players weren't born in Cyrodiil. We all started out in PvE zones, had to level up, research builds, farm gear, practice, die to better players, die to zergs and die to lag. We all had to change our builds, and continue to change our builds, to take part in PvP in general.

And then, an event comes along, and suddenly you want to skip all of that progression, and have the entire fabric of the game change to suit your needs, because that's easier and more reasonable than having you (God forbid) change your build.

No one is stopping you from taking part in PvP events but yourself.

Major_Mangle · January 27

queueing for an instance is an intended game mechanic in reality. People queue out for various reasons. Whether they intended it to be used for some reasons is a whatever...where the instant stealth pots intended to be a way to not take damage or get hit and exposed by an AOE? I would argue that it wasn't intended for that and is an exploit. I would also argue that queueing out of IC isn't an exploit either. You don't get an instant port, it takes time, period. At a minimum, it's around 5 seconds, and in some cases depending on the Cyro instance you queue to, it could be hours.

Direct damage AoE´s (or any direct damage) does reveal from stealth. AoE´s that doesn´t have a direct damage component doesn´t reveal, you still take damage from said AoE however. This is intended and was reworked quite some time ago (think it happened when ZOS reworked cloak at one point). Before that any AoE damage would reveal a target from stealth/cloak.

lillybit · January 27

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

I AM glad someone finally said this, I find it so annoying when people 'turn it around' as a gacha moment when it really isn't truly comparable. One is being totally stopped at taking part in the event unless they change their build, while the other is just not their kind of content, but don't have to change anything about their build to take part.

PvP players weren't born in Cyrodiil. We all started out in PvE zones, had to level up, research builds, farm gear, practice, die to better players, die to zergs and die to lag. We all had to change our builds, and continue to change our builds, to take part in PvP in general.

And then, an event comes along, and suddenly you want to skip all of that progression, and have the entire fabric of the game change to suit your needs, because that's easier and more reasonable than having you (God forbid) change your build.

No one is stopping you from taking part in PvP events but yourself.

There isn't a required skill level in any PvE event tho. You don't need to change your build or learn anything new to do crafting dailies, a short event quest or kill a world boss with a dozen other players. There's one event a year that needs dungeons but they don't require DLC HM's and you don't need special gear to steam roll normal Fungal Grotto.

You also won't get PvEers deliberately stopping you from completing what you need for the event in PvE

Poss · January 27

This isn’t a PvE event though is it? It’s a PvP event where players kill other players. It’s also completely optional btw

xR3ACTORx · January 27

ZOS should just give out event tickets for free without any requirements /s

lillybit · January 27

Poss wrote: »

This isn’t a PvE event though is it? It’s a PvP event where players kill other players. It’s also completely optional btw

Always thought this was a bizarre argument. It's a game, it's all optional. That doesn't mean there aren't people that want to collect everything from these free player events.

I think it's interesting that so many people are saying you should never be able to port out of IC because it's a PvP zone, but nobody is at all bothered that you can also port out of Cyro the same way whenever you want. It's not really about the PvP is it?

If they really want to put a telvar limit on porting out, they should also make earning them optional imo

Vonnegut2506 · January 27

lillybit wrote: »

Poss wrote: »

This isn’t a PvE event though is it? It’s a PvP event where players kill other players. It’s also completely optional btw

Always thought this was a bizarre argument. It's a game, it's all optional. That doesn't mean there aren't people that want to collect everything from these free player events.

I think it's interesting that so many people are saying you should never be able to port out of IC because it's a PvP zone, but nobody is at all bothered that you can also port out of Cyro the same way whenever you want. It's not really about the PvP is it?

If they really want to put a telvar limit on porting out, they should also make earning them optional imo

I have to be honest, I port out of Cyro much more frequently than IC. I'm not running all the way back to a castle just to use a transit stone.

shadyjane62 · January 27

I was just stealth ganked in Crops repeatedly. It's not new but I am fed up with this and prolly will give most the rest of the event a miss.

What was difficult was the complete disrespect from regular pvpers towards the questers.

They may be just pvers trying to do quests and gain some rewards and rank but they are still part of your faction. It wouldn't take much for a couple of so called elites to help out. You might just make another regular player in an increasingly diminished group that come into Cyro instead of making people into angry "never agains".

lillybit · January 27

shadyjane62 wrote: »

I was just stealth ganked in Crops repeatedly. It's not new but I am fed up with this and prolly will give most the rest of the event a miss.

What was difficult was the complete disrespect from regular pvpers towards the questers.

They may be just pvers trying to do quests and gain some rewards and rank but they are still part of your faction. It wouldn't take much for a couple of so called elites to help out. You might just make another regular player in an increasingly diminished group that come into Cyro instead of making people into angry "never agains".

I always find just picking up the scouting board easier than the town dailies for tickets. You might have a bit of a ride but it mostly works out quicker - you don't have to keep going back because you've been killed standing next to the quest giver 6 times.

cyclonus11 · January 28

lillybit wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

I was just stealth ganked in Crops repeatedly. It's not new but I am fed up with this and prolly will give most the rest of the event a miss.

What was difficult was the complete disrespect from regular pvpers towards the questers.

They may be just pvers trying to do quests and gain some rewards and rank but they are still part of your faction. It wouldn't take much for a couple of so called elites to help out. You might just make another regular player in an increasingly diminished group that come into Cyro instead of making people into angry "never agains".

I always find just picking up the scouting board easier than the town dailies for tickets. You might have a bit of a ride but it mostly works out quicker - you don't have to keep going back because you've been killed standing next to the quest giver 6 times.

The fighters guild daily is where it's at!

Thumbless_Bot · January 28

shadyjane62 wrote: »

I was just stealth ganked in Crops repeatedly. It's not new but I am fed up with this and prolly will give most the rest of the event a miss.

What was difficult was the complete disrespect from regular pvpers towards the questers.

They may be just pvers trying to do quests and gain some rewards and rank but they are still part of your faction. It wouldn't take much for a couple of so called elites to help out. You might just make another regular player in an increasingly diminished group that come into Cyro instead of making people into angry "never agains".

See. I2p... hate to be the one to say i told toldjya so but...

Detect pots, armor, etc...

Welcome to Cyrodiil. Hope you enjoy your stay.

scrappy1342 · January 28

robwolf666 wrote: »

It's always been a problem in Cyrodiil and IC, and one of the main reasons I've said for a long time that there should be a PvE instance for those wanting to do the quests, get skydhards etc unhindered by the selfish who don't give a monkies about that kind of thing.

would love to be able to just go in and do the quests carefree. the event too. was thinking the other day how no other games i have played have events relating to pvp where you will miss out on prizes if you don't participate. i'm sure there are some out there, but i haven't played them. got to thinking that i really wish they would add a way that we could get tickets without having to pvp

this morning i was safe in my tower in ic, rescuing the citizens. i saw someone of the opposing faction down below fighting one of the tougher mobs. they were having trouble, so i crept out to the ledge and put a few careful hits in. i didn't want to hit the player. then someone of the 3rd faction comes in, now that the other guy is about 1/3rd health and just slaughters them. after watching certain things on the news this weekend, it made me feel sick. and i'm hesitant to put it out there because i'm sure i'll get a bunch of "you're too sensitive" and "it's just pixels" but it is what it is. i really wish we had a way to participate without having to pvp. i will probably be skipping the rest of the event also

scrappy1342 · January 28

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

The solution here is to go in prepared. It's not unreasonable to understand that you should prepare for the content you're about to do. Boost your health and crit resist stats. Slot on some heals, some stuns, some mobility abilities. Cyrodiil is not going to cater to your PvE needs, when it's specifically a PvP zone.

this does nothing when the gankers wait for you to be talking to the npc turning in your quest to hit you

AzuraFan · January 28

I got ganked yesterday in Vlastarus and just stood there and let them kill me (I only PvP during guild events). I'd discovered that I couldn't turn in the quest because I already had 11 event tickets, so I was about to queue for IC to get out. It saved me having to queue so I was happy about it.

It reminded me of another experience in Cyrodiil. I was crouching in an opposing faction's city while I looked something up on the net. Someone found me. I decided to just hold block. Fifteen seconds later, I was in stitches because they were hitting away at me and I was hardly losing any health. I finally decided to stop blocking so I could get on with my day. I was happy to give someone who obviously wasn't very good a kill. If I'd hit them once they probably would have fallen over.

PSA: If you do get ganked, queue into another campaign. There are jerks who will gank the same person more than once, and and you can avoid that by going into another campaign. As for ganking those turning in quests - once, fair game. If you keep doing it to the same person who you know just wants to turn in a quest, you're a jerk. Doesn't matter that you're in a PvP zone. You're still a jerk.

Attorneyatlawl · January 28

scrappy1342 wrote: »

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

The solution here is to go in prepared. It's not unreasonable to understand that you should prepare for the content you're about to do. Boost your health and crit resist stats. Slot on some heals, some stuns, some mobility abilities. Cyrodiil is not going to cater to your PvE needs, when it's specifically a PvP zone.

this does nothing when the gankers wait for you to be talking to the npc turning in your quest to hit you

Gotta keep your head on a swivel and be quick with the turnin. Hitting ESC will get you out of dialogue if you're hit. Kill the offender and try turning in again. It's a pvp zone, if you don't like it, don't go there? There's nothing you actually need from it. Just FOMO.

JeroenB · January 28

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

The solution here is to go in prepared. It's not unreasonable to understand that you should prepare for the content you're about to do. Boost your health and crit resist stats. Slot on some heals, some stuns, some mobility abilities.

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

See. I2p... hate to be the one to say i told toldjya so but...

Detect pots, armor, etc...

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

And then, an event comes along, and suddenly you want to skip all of that progression, and have the entire fabric of the game change to suit your needs, because that's easier and more reasonable than having you (God forbid) change your build.

You both make these statements apparently believing that you are providing a useful solution to the problem encountered by PvE players attempting to engage in PvE questing in Cyrodiil. As a PvE player, I do not understand how these suggestions are a solution. Please clarify. When I am standing still by a questgiver with my weapons sheathed, but unable to talk to the questgiver because a PvP player is continually attacking me, how does any amount of health or crit resist or mobility abilities or detect pots or armour or the best PvP build imaginable help me talk to the questgiver successfully?

ZOS chose to place PvE content in this PvP zone. Therefore, PvE activities are by the developer's own actions equally valid activities to be engaged with in this PvP zone.

To be clear, I fully understand that this is a PvP zone, and that a PvP player is free to attack me if they so choose. I am similarly free to consider them a rather sad and pathetic individual for continuing to attack someone who is clearly trying to talk to an NPC.

xR3ACTORx wrote: »

ZOS should just give out event tickets for free without any requirements /s

It's ZOS's decision to give out event tickets for PvE quests in PvP zones. If you disagree with that, take it up with ZOS, not the PvE players playing the game that ZOS chose to release.

DestroyerPewnack · January 28

scrappy1342 wrote: »

this does nothing when the gankers wait for you to be talking to the npc turning in your quest to hit you

It does plenty.
First, it's a deterrent. If I were ganking, I'd know the quest giver is a hot spot. While I try to take you down, someone else might walk in and kill me. Or maybe the next person who walks in has 18k HP, and when he sees me trying to kill you, he turns around and runs away, and I lose a guaranteed kill.
Second, it gives you time to exit the NPC's menu and apply your heals. As long as you're alive, even if you can't finish off the ganker, if they realize they can't kill you, they'll leave you alone. Apply some HoT's on yourself and AoE's on the ground right before you talk to the NPC.
This is what any half-decent PvP player would do, and they don't struggle with gankers, for the most part.

reazea · January 28

sshogrin wrote: »

Quest Camping in PvP Zones needs to be dealt with.
The devs want to mess with porting out of IC with more than 100 Tel Var, but apparently quest camping in PvP zones is more than okay. Camping ladders and the base doors in IC is okay. Instant stealth pots (major exploit to stop taking damage) is okay, but porting out of IC using a queue is somehow a problem?
If porting out of IC is an "exploit", then so are the stealth pots and camping quest areas/ladders/base/etc.
Something needs to be done about this, especially during these events.

Why? There are 5 different servers you can log onto. Three are almost always empty. Just go to one of the empty Cyrodiil servers if you want to PvE in Cyrodiil.