Maintenance for the week of March 9:
• [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for patch maintenance – March 9, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for patch maintenance – March 9, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – March 11, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 1:00PM EDT (17:00 UTC)

Core Combat Mechanics - A Deep Dive Message to the Devs & Community

NxJoeyD
NxJoeyD
✭✭✭
Since the Dev's are working on adjusting class skills and attributes to bring more of an identity to non-subclassed builds and/or address some abilities that have shown to perform outside of scope (mainly because of subclassing); I wanted to toss out some suggestions on possible core combat enhancements that aren't class or build specific.

Rather than going over which abilities should have a nerf or a buff or which class needs which passive, etc; I wanted to look at some of the base PvP combat mechanics and take this time to open the forum to ideas on these aspects because, IMO, they get overlooked a lot and when people talk about wanted changes to specific in-game elements they often don't bring up some of the core mechanics.

These are items which might not be included with the Devs updates to class but none the less they're things I've observed in playing and testing PvP in ESO.

THSE SUGGESTIONS PERTAIN TO PVP ONLY - NOT PVE. These could be applied via the Battle Spirit effect that exists in all PvP environments. This way players can still have some of the harder hitting mechanical elements in PvE content (where it's often needed) but not carry those aspects over into PvP.

1) Global Cooldown: This is a legacy element that I agree with; the idea that combat needs some aspect of pacing as well as macro prevention. In it's current state and with the slew of mechanics that currently exist across the game, a full one second GCD seems excessive. When we have mechanics and elements that are structured at 0.3 or 0.5 increments a full one second is an eternity and really works to hold combat back. Personally I think a CGD of 0.5 would better served here. This would allow the game to process more rapidly and enable the combat to feel more responsive across a greater degree of elements while still providing a mechanic to prevent macros. And just to clarify, this is not directed at the concept of weaving / AC; that's a totally separate mechanical aspect. A reduced CGD should result in more accurate window for proper timing on the part of players as well as an overall better response from the game itself.

2) Critical Damage Scaling: I'm sure this one goes without saying, but, crit damage modifiers need to be subject to a hard cap. Currently they operate like resistances whereby the player can exceed the softcap. This creates a problem because the counterplay mechanics (at their maximum) cannot offset the potential ceiling; meaning that a player can still operate with maximum critical damage and chance, even when their opponent assigns significant resources to the proper counterplay. Traditionally, in any RPG critical damage output is an "incidental" occurrence. Players can (and should be able to) enhance base critical, BUT, only up to very real limits. Enabling consistent critical output turns "critical" into "usual". Installing a hard cap for critical modifiers means that existing in game counter play becomes reasonably effective; players can still achieve critical strikes but the idea that any build should be operating in a near persistent state of crit is problematic. This is compounded by the fact that self healing can critically strike. This enables not only excessive damage output but the ability to self heal to a degree that's counter-intuitive to the "Battle Spirit" logic. Battle Spirit reduces healing, however, if critical self healing can be near persistent then the player is effectively negating that balance.

3) Crowd Control Immunity: Even crowd control immunity to the same duration for both hard & soft CC abilities; including pulls & knockbacks/ knockdowns, and change the trigger mechanic to function based on application (similar to how the Nibenay Bay set proc functions), rather than referencing the "break free" mechanic. The application of immunity should be dependent upon CC being used on a player, not whether or not they break free. If a player is stunned and receives, say, a full 3 second duration, that player shouldn't be prone to anther hard CC simply because they didn't or weren't able to break free. In the past this wasn't as much of an issue. If one player exhausted the stamina of their opponent they earned a combat advantage, however, in the current state with subclassing, more sources of CC mechanics are available to more players and with more combinations of CC follow up than ever before. If we're going to expand access to CC for more players and give them access to more mechanics then we need to expand the immunity in proportion. Crowd control should require skill and proper timing to provide a combat advantage, this will encourage more strategy in combat rather than rewarding spams. Players still have access to mechanics like increasing their opponents resource cost that can be used which can work to supplement crowd control to affect resource management in combat; it's not as though excessive use of CC is necessary. This would also work to help reduce stun-lock bugs which can occur when too many CC abilities are spammed on targets simultaneously.

4) Effect Stacking: Stacking effects on either a players own self or their target is a key part of combat. In an effort to make that more strategy oriented no skill or set should apply both the matching Major & Minor versions of an effect. This would require the player to apply those effects via their rotation if they wish to utilize both. Any skill or set that brings both matching effects simultaneously avoids the opportunity cost concept of having to allocate resource as well as the strategy needed to apply them. There are only a few instances where this occurs in the game (thankfully), however, the instances where they do occur are heavily abused. Again, in the past, in-game elements like this might have made sense in the vacuum of class limitations but those are now gone. We can (and should) still have skills and sets which provide multiple benefits, however, they shouldn't stack the same, named, effects together.

5) Evasion Mechanic re-work: Adjust any skill or set that provides evasion to instead provide a player scalable resource pool increase OR resource pool recovery increase. Rather than providing a player with automatic evasion; any dodge to an attack should be 100% player skill dependent. Providing evasion enables players to ignore portions of incoming damage with no skill application requirement. Mitigating damage is not the same thing as avoiding damage. We can have elements which work to mitigate damage passively, that's perfectly sensible, however, any sort of damage avoidance should have a skill check factor as it pertains to combat. Switching from providing evasion to instead providing scalable resource essentially provides the player with an equitable tradeoff, they have an increase resource pool with which to execute a dodge but it will be up to the player to actually perform the maneuver.

6) Ability Animations: This one will take some creativity, but, the long & short is; rework animations so that they complement the skill. Some abilities have such a ridiculous and excessive animation duration that it amounts to (essentially) a cast time when there shouldn't be one. This heavily discourages their use because they're too slow and clumsy to be effective in combat. Animations are nice & immersive effects but when they inhibit effectiveness then they don't really serve a purpose. Just because something looks good doesn't mean that it is good. If an ability has a cast time then an animation which executes during that duration makes sense, but, when we have instant abilities that have long or slow to respond animations they're always going to feel underwhelming. Players shouldn't have options that seem to fit their build on paper but then when they go to use them don't behave the way they present. Some instant abilities have a blisteringly quick response & animation which complements their mechanic; every instant ability should have a similar response curve. We shouldn't have some instant abilities that execute in a blink while others seemingly need time to wind up. If an ability is going to have a slower animation then it needs to have a displayed cast time and attributes adjusted accordingly to give it a value proposition. This can also help to reduce a lot of ability trigger failures that occur constantly in combat.

The idea here is to tweak base combat mechanics to raise the floor on combat strategy in light of all the effects subclassing has had on PvP. Subclassing isn't going away and with a refresh to some of the main mechanics it doesn't have to. Players should still have the potential to explore build crafting theory but not be penalized because the core of combat favors certain mechanical elements over others. This doesn't mean that every build will be the same, or that even every build will be competitive. What it does mean is that outcomes would move to be more player skill based rather than mechanical manipulation based.

We don't want class changes simply getting rolled up amongst existing mechanics that have questionable logic. Part of the feedback from the player community post-subclassing has exposed some of these underlying mechanics as root causes of problems and while the effort to refresh classes is positive, let's not forget that is not necessarily going to address many of the issues we're all experiencing in the current game state.
  • MincMincMinc
    MincMincMinc
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    1. The pvp already lags as is because of skill and set bloat. Doubling the amount of skills per second will not go over well. Look at vengeance and to get to that point of performance they had to remove nearly 2-3 paragraphs of effects from each skill.

    2. Crit meta right now is more of an issue where they gutted impen with the intention of balancing out numerically the armor traits to hopefully see some diversity. Completely ignoring all crit resist vs crit damage balance in the process. Since then they continued to add loads of more crit damage sources, handing out majors/minors in easy to grab places. Not to mention many crit damage sources also offer crit healing too. Look at the pen mundus 2744pen/660 == 4.15% damage done. However the crit damage mundus gives 11% which is almost triple the damage done. If we assume a crit build is at 50% chance then the 11% can be averaged down to 5.5% damage done.............except we are again forgetting that the shadow does crit healing too, so its double as efficient ontop of being numerically superior.

    3. Most of the CC issues with the game are due to skills bloating and animations becoming insane for generic spammable skills. Zos also keeps adding in nontelegraphed stuns that do not promote counterplay, just leading to frustration. One major issue I see is how builds have to pivot around getting snare/root immunity. It would be better if you got root immunity for a time period after rolling out of a root. Snares also do not have a core counterplay, so making something like sprint strip away snares faster would be a good addition Perhaps for every second you are sprinting, reduce the snare duration by 25% its total.

    4. Agreed, we shouldnt have one stop shopping for skills. Things like deep fissure doing everything you could possibly need makes it near impossible to choose other skills. Just go try to compare what deep fissure offers vs something like curse or potl.......theres a reason we dont see these skills used anymore.

    5. I assume you are talking about dodges? It doesnt sound like you mean major/minor evasion.

    6. Ults, CCs, and insane burst skills like merciless resolve are the only skills that should have absurdly fancy animations. For instance the new 2h animations are cool for an anime hack&slash RPG.....however not every generic spammable needs absurdly large particle and trailing effects exploding each second. This clouds up combat and can make mask important combat events like CC, creating player frustration. Things like the 2h execute skill could just be a sword swing and maybe do a particle explosion IF they get a killing blow with it. Use the animations to create special moments, instead of making every moment "special".
    Edited by MincMincMinc on January 26, 2026 4:44PM
    I only use insightful
    BG MMR should NOT reset, zos sponsored smurfing is a terrible design choice.
    PvP needs more incentives, even simple purple/gold mats would suffice.
  • NxJoeyD
    NxJoeyD
    ✭✭✭
    1. The pvp already lags as is because of skill and set bloat. Doubling the amount of skills per second will not go over well. Look at vengeance and to get to that point of performance they had to remove nearly 2-3 paragraphs of effects from each skill.

    2. Crit meta right now is more of an issue where they gutted impen with the intention of balancing out numerically the armor traits to hopefully see some diversity. Completely ignoring all crit resist vs crit damage balance in the process. Since then they continued to add loads of more crit damage sources, handing out majors/minors in easy to grab places. Not to mention many crit damage sources also offer crit healing too. Look at the pen mundus 2744pen/660 == 4.15% damage done. However the crit damage mundus gives 11% which is almost triple the damage done. If we assume a crit build is at 50% chance then the 11% can be averaged down to 5.5% damage done.............except we are again forgetting that the shadow does crit healing too, so its double as efficient ontop of being numerically superior.

    3. Most of the CC issues with the game are due to skills bloating and animations becoming insane for generic spammable skills. Zos also keeps adding in nontelegraphed stuns that do not promote counterplay, just leading to frustration. One major issue I see is how builds have to pivot around getting snare/root immunity. It would be better if you got root immunity for a time period after rolling out of a root. Snares also do not have a core counterplay, so making something like sprint strip away snares faster would be a good addition Perhaps for every second you are sprinting, reduce the snare duration by 25% its total.

    4. Agreed, we shouldnt have one stop shopping for skills. Things like deep fissure doing everything you could possibly need makes it near impossible to choose other skills. Just go try to compare what deep fissure offers vs something like curse or potl.......theres a reason we dont see these skills used anymore.

    5. I assume you are talking about dodges? It doesnt sound like you mean major/minor evasion.

    6. Ults, CCs, and insane burst skills like merciless resolve are the only skills that should have absurdly fancy animations. For instance the new 2h animations are cool for an anime hack&slash RPG.....however not every generic spammable needs absurdly large particle and trailing effects exploding each second. This clouds up combat and can make mask important combat events like CC, creating player frustration. Things like the 2h execute skill could just be a sword swing and maybe do a particle explosion IF they get a killing blow with it. Use the animations to create special moments, instead of making every moment "special".

    1) It’s not necessarily the idea that reducing GCD will certainly result in double casts per second, I don’t see manual inputs really hitting that consistently. Really, the adjustment would allow a smoother input response by giving the existing latency a larger window of acceptance. This greater fluidity would line up with some existing skills that tick high DPS in fractions of a second or stack proc to multi apply. We’ve seen MMOs run a sub 1 second GCD. If we think 0.5 is too low try 0.75; that’d be worth a shot.

    2) Yes, they gutted Impen, but when they did that players didn’t have broad access to skills and mechanics like they do now. I’m not looking at Crit in the vacuum of simply scaling plus resistance; I’m looking at how the accessible mechanics apply. More players can hit higher Crit frequencies and scaling but they can also self heal to an extent that I, personally, find unnecessary in a game with dedicated healing roles. Hard capping Crit scaling works to immediately improve the existing Impen and Crit resistances we have without full on killing Crit frequency. … Personally I would love to see a hard cap on Crit chance also but I can accept a hard cap on Crit damage scaling as at least that doesn’t immediately make skills un-counterable. With full Impen and a few other minor crit mitigators a player can reduce an opponents Crit damage modifiers to a reasonable level; and that’s without Rally Cry. Players can’t build to guarantee hard hit or hard heal for sky high values. I don’t want to kill the idea of making crit builds, I’m saying there should be a reasonable limit to scaling and with power creep having gone so high in the game, IMO, a better answer is to reel in Crit damage rather than throw more sources of resistance and add to bloat.

    3. I really like the idea of the Sprint snare reduction. One of the things I’m trying to accomplish with this one is A) reduce reliance on spamming varying CC mechanics & B) not have the solution be a stam based build benefactor. …. All builds have to have a degree of resource management in mind but at the same time I also think it’s unreasonable to tell players, by way of mechanics, that’s in order to PvP you have to Stam base or die. … we definitely want combat to be able to pinch opponents into resource control but currently so many counter play answers rely solely on the Stam pool. Mag based builds have no source of prevention or escape using their primary resource pool. This is problematic because a Stam based build not only has the resource / recovery but their output also scales off that same survivability resource. The same can’t be said for Mag builds. … so by tying immunity to a stam resource we indirectly penalize Mag builds. This wasn’t a big deal before subclassing but that’s now changed with CC becoming overused. I think there’s room for creativity here when it comes to immunity and how we use that to encourage strategic use of CC.

    5. It’s my understanding that Evasion grants chance to automatically avoid damage? Whatever we’re labeling that mechanic, that’s the one I’m addressing. Apologies if I’ve cited the wrong one. … my thoughts are that evasion should be a skill check. When we see players standing on attack and receiving a grant of a “dodge” due to a passive or proc that basically gave them a “get out of damage” card, that lowers the skill ceiling for combat. … rather than have the mechanic apply a percent chance to avoid incoming damage give the player the additional resource to utilize dodge; it’s the same net resource cost but it requires the player to actually evade rather than just know that they’re going to auto ignore some incoming attacks.

    6. I agree! … the animations should reflect the skills mechanics. Merciless Resolve executes the function insanely fast, but an actual execute skill like Mages Wrath / Fury has an absurdly long duration between input and actual execution, nearly a full second! It’s no wonder people don’t want to slot it; it’s too laggy and unreliable. Skills like Merciless or Concealed Weapon were done really well, they respond consistently and are reliable.
  • Luna_the_Rat
    Luna_the_Rat
    ✭✭
    my perspective is from a longtime pvp player but my two cents = i dont think a sublclassed character should have the maximum potential of whatever tree they take compared to a pureclassed character

    that might be a pretty forced / heavy handed way to not prioritize subclassing with the $ ring, but eso used to have class identity and now we have a single class and one set of skills used at a certain mmr which is obviously, decidedly, much worse than it used to be
  • NxJoeyD
    NxJoeyD
    ✭✭✭
    my perspective is from a longtime pvp player but my two cents = i dont think a sublclassed character should have the maximum potential of whatever tree they take compared to a pureclassed character

    that might be a pretty forced / heavy handed way to not prioritize subclassing with the $ ring, but eso used to have class identity and now we have a single class and one set of skills used at a certain mmr which is obviously, decidedly, much worse than it used to be

    I feel this! One of the issues I have with subclassing in PvP is that it’s very clear to most of us that the Devs designed most skills in the vacuum of class limitation. … it’s not just the values they scale to but the mechanics of how they function. Giving these mechanics to a class that was limited in scope is one thing, but enabling other classes to pair mechanics that are so complementary that proper counterplay all but disappears is another.

    A reduced skill tree would be a solid approach. If one subclasses as skill tree they receive a 15% reduction in scaled effectiveness? .. or something like that.
Sign In or Register to comment.