Pain Points and Ideas for the Warden Class Refresh (plus Destruction staff)

Schlaflos · January 19

would suggest postponing the Warden’s release in the summer and, instead of releasing the Sorcerer at the end of the year, releasing the Warden and the Necromancer at the same time.

Frost damage would be converted into Disease damage and moved to the Necromancer.

The Warden would receive an entirely new skill line, for example a Shapeshifter line — a true druid concept, but without full transformations.

The Warden has bonded deeply with nature and all living beings connected to it, not only outwardly but also spiritually.

Ultimate Ability

The ultimate would be the Bear, but not as a companion. Instead, the Warden either becomes a bear or is surrounded by a bear’s hide.
• Increased Armor
• Increased Health Regeneration

Additional Abilities
• Tiger Claw
Deals Bleed damage and increases Critical Chance.
• Bear Paw
Smashes the target to the ground, stuns it, and applies Minor Maim.
• Leopard Aura
Increases movement speed for you and your allies.

And so on

Schlaflos · January 19

Animal Companions Skill Line

The animal companions line would be very interesting as a temporary pet-based skill line.
For example, instead of beetles attacking with a delay, three wolves are summoned that immediately attack the target for 4–5 seconds.

Faltasë · January 19

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

@ESO_Nightingale
I agree to most of your Warden proposals, under one caveat. And this is regarding your very first pain point. Class Identity.
In my opinion Frost damage and the animals/plants/nature theme of the Warden/Druid/Hermit of the Wilds archetype do not fit.

Don't get me wrong. Frost damage is awesome, I love it and I want to have Frost DPS characters in ESO. It is just: Why the Warden?

In my opinion all the idiosyncrasies of the class' identity stem from the fact, that at the time of release of the class, there were little to no sources for frost damage. And so it was slapped on to the latest and shiniest addition to the game. It probably seemed like a good idea at the time, but it hurt the class in the long run.

Frost damage needs its own class! It always did.

To be honest, as much as i hate that thought of having to switch classes again, and with Warden being my favorite, I do think that the class has a massive identity crisis and honestly wouldn't mind just completely upending the frost aspect. I mean even in its naming scheme and its thematics it doesn't feel cohesive (Winters Embrace = Skyrim, Animal Companions = Vvardenfell, Green Balance = Valenwood/ Breton Druid) Because you can't even synergize it properly with the other two lines(at least, in my opinion it feels underutilized)

The frost sets and damage synergies for frost in the game are still lackluster too (one frost weapon, two good frost themed sets, and utilizing it as a stamden really makes it feel... bad)

I do think that the class could benefit from identity consolidation, and if that means removing winters embrace for something equally as good if not better, than I am honestly all for it. That could also give them time to give us proper frost later.

Now the more realistic option which they will probably do is keep it the same, but tweak output. I think personally they should just consolidate damage types at the very least. If they're super determined to keep Ice/Bleed, then maybe winters embrace should embrace bleed(or direct physical damage), or maybe animal companions and green balance should get frost damage in their abilities.

ESO_Nightingale · January 19

Faltasë wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

@ESO_Nightingale
I agree to most of your Warden proposals, under one caveat. And this is regarding your very first pain point. Class Identity.
In my opinion Frost damage and the animals/plants/nature theme of the Warden/Druid/Hermit of the Wilds archetype do not fit.

Don't get me wrong. Frost damage is awesome, I love it and I want to have Frost DPS characters in ESO. It is just: Why the Warden?

In my opinion all the idiosyncrasies of the class' identity stem from the fact, that at the time of release of the class, there were little to no sources for frost damage. And so it was slapped on to the latest and shiniest addition to the game. It probably seemed like a good idea at the time, but it hurt the class in the long run.

Frost damage needs its own class! It always did.

To be honest, as much as i hate that thought of having to switch classes again, and with Warden being my favorite, I do think that the class has a massive identity crisis and honestly wouldn't mind just completely upending the frost aspect. I mean even in its naming scheme and its thematics it doesn't feel cohesive (Winters Embrace = Skyrim, Animal Companions = Vvardenfell, Green Balance = Valenwood/ Breton Druid) Because you can't even synergize it properly with the other two lines(at least, in my opinion it feels underutilized)

The frost sets and damage synergies for frost in the game are still lackluster too (one frost weapon, two good frost themed sets, and utilizing it as a stamden really makes it feel... bad)

I do think that the class could benefit from identity consolidation, and if that means removing winters embrace for something equally as good if not better, than I am honestly all for it. That could also give them time to give us proper frost later.

Now the more realistic option which they will probably do is keep it the same, but tweak output. I think personally they should just consolidate damage types at the very least. If they're super determined to keep Ice/Bleed, then maybe winters embrace should embrace bleed(or direct physical damage), or maybe animal companions and green balance should get frost damage in their abilities.

It would be nice but i really dont believe theyll do that

ESO_Nightingale · January 20

Schlaflos wrote: »

Animal Companions Skill Line

The animal companions line would be very interesting as a temporary pet-based skill line.
For example, instead of beetles attacking with a delay, three wolves are summoned that immediately attack the target for 4–5 seconds.

I'd be a lot more into 3 ice wraiths bursting from the ground, because they already do that when you fight them.

ESO_Nightingale · January 21

Schlaflos wrote: »

would suggest postponing the Warden’s release in the summer and, instead of releasing the Sorcerer at the end of the year, releasing the Warden and the Necromancer at the same time.

Frost damage would be converted into Disease damage and moved to the Necromancer.

The Warden would receive an entirely new skill line, for example a Shapeshifter line — a true druid concept, but without full transformations.

The Warden has bonded deeply with nature and all living beings connected to it, not only outwardly but also spiritually.

Ultimate Ability

The ultimate would be the Bear, but not as a companion. Instead, the Warden either becomes a bear or is surrounded by a bear’s hide.
• Increased Armor
• Increased Health Regeneration

Additional Abilities
• Tiger Claw
Deals Bleed damage and increases Critical Chance.
• Bear Paw
Smashes the target to the ground, stuns it, and applies Minor Maim.
• Leopard Aura
Increases movement speed for you and your allies.

And so on

would this mean that there wouldn't be a frost damage line at all?

MincMincMinc · January 21

I think alot of people are going crazy that dk lost the poison concept. When really it only had the poison concepts to satisfy stam morphs. Warden already has frost set in stone, and then animal and green balance will probably just become poison. Maybe we will see animal turn to bleed, but I doubt they'd give 3 status effects to the same class.

We can expect sorc stormcalling to be shock, the rest is going to be magic damage.

Nightblade is probably going to get bleed/physical then have siphoning be magic damage

Templar will probably get phys/mag, i could see them having a tossup on dawns whether to keep fire or go magic damage there.

Necro is obviously disease and probably mag damage

Arc, tbh i havent even looked at the skills since coming back. We just dont see them in pvp that often enough to care, other than the rogue lazer beam pve full damage you need to be mindful of in bgs

LeHarrt91 · January 21

Agreed, I’m looking forward to the warden rework

ESO_Nightingale · January 23

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Agreed, I’m looking forward to the warden rework

It'll be a long wait

wilsonwjesse · January 24

They made a mistake by making Dragonknight all fire. They should remove elemental and damage type bonuses. Like fire, AoE, Frost, Shock, and Physical. I don't want a class for each damage type. Nor do I want a class that buffs one damage type so they subclass to get all those types. Just remove these buffs.

Dragons don't just breath fire. Engulfing Dragonfire should be Engulfing Dragon Breath and deal fire damage unless you have a shock or Ice staff equipped. They should make disintegrating dragonfire back to poison. Dragons breath All the elemental damage types. Dragonic power and Earthen Heart shouldn't JUST have fire damage like ardent flame does.

They should remove DoT and Direct damage from Staff passives. They should give all destro staffs equal potential for damage like you said and remove dot/direct damage buffs and give them all some weapon spell damage buff or something. I like the idea of Frost being versatile. Perhaps if you have winter's Embrace skill line it just gives you the extra damage and makes it just as good as the other destro staffs for offense while maintaining it's defense bonus.

Without the frost damage buff, you can buff Winter's embrace in so many ways. Ice can turn into shards that would deal crit damage. Maybe they should have a crit healing and damage bonus like earthen heart. Maybe they deal more damage to targets that are chilled. Maybe hefty attack animals would do more damage to targets that are chilled. It's not easy to make it synergize like they did with DK, but for sure the wrong answer is to lean into elemental or type of damage buffs. They need to remove all that from DK, Warden, and Sorc.

Giving frost damage to animal companion makes no sense. Ice Wraiths aren't even animals. They are spirits. And frost trolls/horkers would deal Physical or Bleed damage or Magical damage if they are just like the essence of the animal since why is a horker in Cyrodil?

Faltasë · January 25

wilsonwjesse wrote: »

They made a mistake by making Dragonknight all fire. They should remove elemental and damage type bonuses. Like fire, AoE, Frost, Shock, and Physical. I don't want a class for each damage type. Nor do I want a class that buffs one damage type so they subclass to get all those types. Just remove these buffs.

Dragons don't just breath fire. Engulfing Dragonfire should be Engulfing Dragon Breath and deal fire damage unless you have a shock or Ice staff equipped. They should make disintegrating dragonfire back to poison. Dragons breath All the elemental damage types. Dragonic power and Earthen Heart shouldn't JUST have fire damage like ardent flame does.

They should remove DoT and Direct damage from Staff passives. They should give all destro staffs equal potential for damage like you said and remove dot/direct damage buffs and give them all some weapon spell damage buff or something. I like the idea of Frost being versatile. Perhaps if you have winter's Embrace skill line it just gives you the extra damage and makes it just as good as the other destro staffs for offense while maintaining it's defense bonus.

Without the frost damage buff, you can buff Winter's embrace in so many ways. Ice can turn into shards that would deal crit damage. Maybe they should have a crit healing and damage bonus like earthen heart. Maybe they deal more damage to targets that are chilled. Maybe hefty attack animals would do more damage to targets that are chilled. It's not easy to make it synergize like they did with DK, but for sure the wrong answer is to lean into elemental or type of damage buffs. They need to remove all that from DK, Warden, and Sorc.

Giving frost damage to animal companion makes no sense. Ice Wraiths aren't even animals. They are spirits. And frost trolls/horkers would deal Physical or Bleed damage or Magical damage if they are just like the essence of the animal since why is a horker in Cyrodil?

Remove elemental damage types on classes? Brother that is the most short-sighted thing I've ever heard. This would be awful as sets have synergies with different damage types. You're essentially trolling at this point.

Lekjih · January 25

Schlaflos wrote: »

The ultimate would be the Bear, but not as a companion. Instead, the Warden either becomes a bear or is surrounded by a bear’s hide.
• Increased Armor
• Increased Health Regeneration

Additional Abilities
• Tiger Claw
Deals Bleed damage and increases Critical Chance.
• Bear Paw
Smashes the target to the ground, stuns it, and applies Minor Maim.
• Leopard Aura
Increases movement speed for you and your allies.

As a warden main, this sounds awful. I want my pets, I want my flowers, I want my ice magic. I love my warden wings and running with my bear out. Right now, wardens are essentially water benders from ATLA (blood bending animals, waterbending plants, ice for offence and defence) but even in game it fits together as a storytelling mage. Ice and water can be used as screens for spoken stories given life by magic. It needs tweaks but people in this thread are rewriting the class and I'm worried they're going to listen to the vocal people who want change instead of the quiet ones who like what they have. Biggest change I want is let me use skill styles to change animals

Sordidfairytale · January 25

Faltasë wrote: »

Remove elemental damage types on classes? Brother that is the most short-sighted thing I've ever heard. This would be awful as sets have synergies with different damage types. You're essentially trolling at this point.

Making weapons base damage dictate your ability damage would be interesting. Staff = magic damage base and all other weapon type would = physical damage base. Then the glyphs you apply could override the damage of your abilities. Not a perfect solution, but not a terrible idea.

The sets that have synergies with different damage types would be as applicable as they are now.

wilsonwjesse · January 25

Faltasë wrote: »

Remove elemental damage types on classes? Brother that is the most short-sighted thing I've ever heard. This would be awful as sets have synergies with different damage types. You're essentially trolling at this point.

I'm serious. It is a powerful buff which makes up a significant portion of the value of a skill line. You can't mix that line with every other skill line and feel ok about it, but you're highly encouraged to mix it with skill lines from other classes that synergize. Like Draconic with Storm Calling for bonus damage to Whirling Blades or Pillar of Nirn.

It restricts playstyles while encouraging certain types of subclassing.

Buff the ability damage of each skill. Don't restrict it and create non-synergies even within the class (Molten Whip is still Single Target)

The other option is each class has it's own damage type and element. That would be so restrictive and boring. Nobody should want that.

They did a good job making the class synergistic and balanced, they just need to buff each line more for DD, Tanking, Healing, and PvP because none of the lines are OP now that they are somewhat balanced so they need to make them all OP.

Nemesis7884 · January 25

My pain points are more thematically warden being frost focused and not having a bear / ursaug or other transformation... i also would like if we get different animal comp skins for the bear or at least that the magic variant looks more magic like; for ex like the wild hunt bear...
I also think keeping animals, nature but turning frost into seasons or elements with all elemtens being present is a really cool idea...

Radiate77 · January 25

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

My pain points are more thematically warden being frost focused and not having a bear / ursaug or other transformation...

It sounds like you’re describing a Druid, not a Warden.

Faltasë · January 25

]

Radiate77 wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

My pain points are more thematically warden being frost focused and not having a bear / ursaug or other transformation...

It sounds like you’re describing a Druid, not a Warden.

The warden description is literally akin to the description of a druid from DnD? I mean it's literally a one to one recreation of a druid.

Radiate77 · January 25

Faltasë wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

My pain points are more thematically warden being frost focused and not having a bear / ursaug or other transformation...

It sounds like you’re describing a Druid, not a Warden.

The warden description is literally akin to the description of a druid from DnD? I mean it's literally a one to one recreation of a druid.

We have actual Druids in ESO. You fight one in Earthen Heart Enclave that transforms into a bear.

While I agree there is overlap, there is a distinction between the two, and that’s why Subclassing is so fun. You can actually make a Druid.

MashmalloMan · January 25

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

IMHO they need to rework Heavy Attacks to be either a charged, more powerful Lightning Ball (something like Skyrim's Chain Lightning, that hits hard and shocks nearby targets) or a channeled Flame/Ice Beam, as Staff HA is really inconsistent right now. And should ZOS choose to pick a charged lightning ball for Lightning Staves, they need to make all staves HA to not break stealth and invisibility. This is simply because all other weapons HA don't.

Ice Staves can be used for damage if you got a Critical Chance/Damage build btw... there's still Minor Brittle.

noblecron wrote: »

I think the biggest concern and question I have is will entire skill lines be removed. Like is sorc''s lightning going from sorc to Warden to fit the nature theme?

Highly doubt it. We still got subclasses.

Minor brittle isnt unique to ice staves anymore, its also a group buff, not a personal one, so every other build benefits from it significantly more.

Every direct damage status effect was reworked to function in 2 capacities, Chilled was the only one forced to use a weapon to get its new effect. I really hope if they rework Warden, they rework Frost staves, and Chilled so its 2nd bonus always applies regardless of weapon.

Defile = Minor Defile + aoe proc for 40% of the DMG, spreads debuff (4s CD)
Concuss = Minor Vulnerability + 15% damage done to Concussed targets
Overcharge = Minor Magickasteal + x Magicka Return on proc
Sunder = Minor Breach + 100 w/s damage for caster
Chill = Minor Maim + Minor Brittle (with Frost staff)

Bare in mind, Minor Brittle was introduced to Frost Staves to keep it as a support weapon, that still gave a little more bang for their buck on the DPS side of things. At that time, it was super rare. Since then, all the above changes happened, plus Flame and Shock staves got a buff from 10% to 12% on DOT/Direct, which also applies to Status Effects/Channels. Frost staves continued to get nothing while being watered down from increased sources of Minor Brittle.

In addition to allies applying after Frost staves are reworked, I would actually prefer the secondary bonus change to an unamed effect for the caster instead of Minor Brittle. Give it other access points on abilities so it's not just sets, but make chill more selfish and competitive.