Class Mastery Scripts Balance (Warden is broken in PvP)

Serjium · January 17

Greetings. Our respected devs promised global class balance changes. Why not start with something small but significant? Class Mastery Signature Scripts. There is a serious imbalance here in PvP.

Templar: Armor + Spell Damage. Not bad if you have a healer setup.
Dragonknight: 50 Spell Damage and 2% absorb. This is truly underwhelming, lol. I don't even know who uses this and where.
Sorcerer: Shock Damage. Good damage, it’s fine.
Nightblade: 400 Magicka and Stamina. Okay...
Necromancer: Something for PvE corpse interactions.

Warden. Snare all enemies in a huge radius by 70%. Wow, that's actually nice, finally some utility. Wait, stop. There is also an AoE Hard CC for 3 seconds in the same radius. A Charm that is Unblockable, Undodgeable, and Unpurgable. On top of that, this Charm is buggy — Break Free often fails or takes too long, the visual cue is hard to notice, and it causes the character to rubberband and move erratically. Is that all? No, it also restores 1435 Magicka and Stamina.

Sorry, but how did you even test this? Do you have any idea how broken this is in 4v4 PvP? One such Warden under the flag is enough to make the entire enemy team lose control and glitch out for the whole fight. One single Signature Script, which is supposed to be a minor utility, is better than any CC in the game. People are creating entire builds just around this one effect. Maybe it's worth starting the balance audit by fixing this mess?

Not sure which section fits best — I would be grateful if you could move this to the correct one if needed.

nightbringer1993 · January 17

I have been complaining to ZOS since it’s release and this charm must be removed. Especially with the imperial city change coming next patch because if people get stuck in a wall IC and own 100+ tel bar you won’t be able to port out by going to cyro. Last summer during a BG I won the match because a warden in my team had gotten three players from the other team stuck in a wall. Things like this should never have happened, but it did.

ESO_Nightingale · January 18

Hi, im a warden player and i approve of this message.

Imo, Turn it into a frost and bleed or poison ground DoT and leave it at that

danko355 · January 18

Charm is the one and only thing in this game I really hate. I don’t care about ganking, grim focus damage, ball groups, cross heal, trolling tanks with perma blocks, streak, invisibility, corrosive in its prime, proc sets, rush of agony, bombing, small scale trolls, only charm.

Serjium · January 18

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

I have been complaining to ZOS since it’s release and this charm must be removed. Especially with the imperial city change coming next patch because if people get stuck in a wall IC and own 100+ tel bar you won’t be able to port out by going to cyro. Last summer during a BG I won the match because a warden in my team had gotten three players from the other team stuck in a wall. Things like this should never have happened, but it did.

Thanks for mentioning the issue with getting stuck in textures! While it has only happened to me about 5 or 6 times in Battlegrounds — on the map the one with piranhas, near the stairs — I can only imagine how much easier it is to get stuck in the more complex environments of Imperial City or Cyrodiil.

That being said, getting stuck is probably the least of the evils when it comes to this Scribing Signature.

ViggyBoi · January 20

The charm isnt the actual worst effect, moreso how awful it feels trying to avoid it. With a bunch of different things going on on screen its actually kind of hard to tell sometimes if you are charmed or just snared since the animation is literally just you walking around like an idiot. If performance tanks you sometimes dont even get a visual heads up. The snare is also doing massive heavy lifting since soft and hard cc's have different cooldowns. You burn so much stam just trying to get out of that damn circle. Even without the whiff portion it still would probably be the best class script. Problem is Warden doesnt have any good CC outside of it. If you get rid of the snare the CC takes too long. If you shrink the range its basically not catching anyone. Removing the resource restore feels like one of those technical nerfs that dont actually accomplish anything.

Sluggy · January 20

ViggyBoi wrote: »

.. Problem is Warden doesnt have any good CC outside of it. If you get rid of the snare the CC takes too long. If you shrink the range its basically not catching anyone.

Huh? Wardens have never particularly suffered from a smaller number of CCs than other classes - and they still had plenty of options. But multi-classing is a thing now though so-o-o-o-o-o.... they now have access to ever CC in the game.

ESO_Nightingale · January 21

Sluggy wrote: »

ViggyBoi wrote: »

.. Problem is Warden doesnt have any good CC outside of it. If you get rid of the snare the CC takes too long. If you shrink the range its basically not catching anyone.

Huh? Wardens have never particularly suffered from a smaller number of CCs than other classes - and they still had plenty of options. But multi-classing is a thing now though so-o-o-o-o-o.... they now have access to ever CC in the game.

I mean we have historically suffered with on-demand stuns but yeah the class mastery is awful to play against. They need to rework it.

ViggyBoi · January 21

The problem with the charm isnt the actual effect

Sluggy wrote: »

ViggyBoi wrote: »

.. Problem is Warden doesnt have any good CC outside of it. If you get rid of the snare the CC takes too long. If you shrink the range its basically not catching anyone.

Huh? Wardens have never particularly suffered from a smaller number of CCs than other classes - and they still had plenty of options. But multi-classing is a thing now though so-o-o-o-o-o.... they now have access to ever CC in the game.

When I say good CC i mean an on demand in class stun that doesnt compromise your utility. (In a Pre subclassing pvp context)

Crystal Slabs only activated if your opponent attacked you meaning you cant really combo it. Bear has a stun but.... come on... Dive off balance + heavy attack can only be triggered off cooldown. The closest thing wardens had was the Arctic Blast change a little while ago but it was nerfed. now you can use it as a stun but you give up polar wind which is a crazy ask.

Sluggy · January 21

ViggyBoi wrote: »

The problem with the charm isnt the actual effect

Sluggy wrote: »

ViggyBoi wrote: »

.. Problem is Warden doesnt have any good CC outside of it. If you get rid of the snare the CC takes too long. If you shrink the range its basically not catching anyone.

Huh? Wardens have never particularly suffered from a smaller number of CCs than other classes - and they still had plenty of options. But multi-classing is a thing now though so-o-o-o-o-o.... they now have access to ever CC in the game.

When I say good CC i mean an on demand in class stun that doesnt compromise your utility. (In a Pre subclassing pvp context)

Crystal Slabs only activated if your opponent attacked you meaning you cant really combo it. Bear has a stun but.... come on... Dive off balance + heavy attack can only be triggered off cooldown. The closest thing wardens had was the Arctic Blast change a little while ago but it was nerfed. now you can use it as a stun but you give up polar wind which is a crazy ask.

The only stun mah pappy ever needed were Dawn Breaker. It were good enough fer him, then it were good enough fer me.

Seriously though, back in the day wardens could generate ulti so fast that DB *was* effectively an on-demand stun. Besides, we're talking about an ulti being used as a form of CC right here. And I also never understood why people looked past skills like Scattershot, and Shield Charge like they didn't exist. Dswing was a good one in the past as well and even the later off-balance version was still a great option. I never needed to spam stun left and right. Just needed to trigger it once at the worst possible time for my opponent.

Anyway, your post mentioned the snare being the problem and I'll admit that it's always been a strong effect but I don't know of anyone that is complaining about that portion of the skill right now. I think that more than anything it's just the annoyance of having control taken away from their characters every twenty seconds or so. Similar to dark convergence in the early days. It could be used effectively by a group to setup unavoidable deaths but even if that wasn't the case, it's just friggin' annoying having to plan every fight around the effect hitting you every few seconds non-stop.

nightbringer1993 · January 21

Warden charm still not removed on PTS and I fear for the IC situation coming next patch if this charm is not removed. Does ZOS seriously do not play PvP. Those warden trolls will have fun getting people stuck in walls knowing that people won't be able to port to cyro to get unstuck if they have 100+ tel var.

ESO_Nightingale · January 21

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

Warden charm still not removed on PTS and I fear for the IC situation coming next patch if this charm is not removed. Does ZOS seriously do not play PvP. Those warden trolls will have fun getting people stuck in walls knowing that people won't be able to port to cyro to get unstuck if they have 100+ tel var.

If they do touch it it'll probably be during warden's class refresh.

MXVIIDREAM · January 22

What actually do we do if we get stuck in a wall stuck in combat in ic with idk 3k telvar do we force close relog hope we aren’t in combat and can use get me unstuck, if been put under floors in walls and this concerns me if I don’t have a sigel I could be stuck there indefinitely

nightbringer1993 · January 22

MXVIIDREAM wrote: »

What actually do we do if we get stuck in a wall stuck in combat in ic with idk 3k telvar do we force close relog hope we aren’t in combat and can use get me unstuck, if been put under floors in walls and this concerns me if I don’t have a sigel I could be stuck there indefinitely

This the reason why I’ll stay out of IC next patch if that charm plague is not removed

YandereGirlfriend · January 22

The Necromancer class script is the worst of them all with a bullet.

It's also bugged into Oblivion and procs off of invisible corpses so it basically never fulfills the "generate corpse" component of the Script.

It is basically a 2% Max Resources buff which is like so insignificant that is is impossible to even measure the effect of.

ViggyBoi · January 23

Sluggy wrote: »

ViggyBoi wrote: »

The problem with the charm isnt the actual effect

Sluggy wrote: »

ViggyBoi wrote: »

.. Problem is Warden doesnt have any good CC outside of it. If you get rid of the snare the CC takes too long. If you shrink the range its basically not catching anyone.

Huh? Wardens have never particularly suffered from a smaller number of CCs than other classes - and they still had plenty of options. But multi-classing is a thing now though so-o-o-o-o-o.... they now have access to ever CC in the game.

When I say good CC i mean an on demand in class stun that doesnt compromise your utility. (In a Pre subclassing pvp context)

Crystal Slabs only activated if your opponent attacked you meaning you cant really combo it. Bear has a stun but.... come on... Dive off balance + heavy attack can only be triggered off cooldown. The closest thing wardens had was the Arctic Blast change a little while ago but it was nerfed. now you can use it as a stun but you give up polar wind which is a crazy ask.

The only stun mah pappy ever needed were Dawn Breaker. It were good enough fer him, then it were good enough fer me.

Seriously though, back in the day wardens could generate ulti so fast that DB *was* effectively an on-demand stun. Besides, we're talking about an ulti being used as a form of CC right here. And I also never understood why people looked past skills like Scattershot, and Shield Charge like they didn't exist. Dswing was a good one in the past as well and even the later off-balance version was still a great option. I never needed to spam stun left and right. Just needed to trigger it once at the worst possible time for my opponent.

Anyway, your post mentioned the snare being the problem and I'll admit that it's always been a strong effect but I don't know of anyone that is complaining about that portion of the skill right now. I think that more than anything it's just the annoyance of having control taken away from their characters every twenty seconds or so. Similar to dark convergence in the early days. It could be used effectively by a group to setup unavoidable deaths but even if that wasn't the case, it's just friggin' annoying having to plan every fight around the effect hitting you every few seconds non-stop.

When I say the snare is the problem I don't mean that its the worst aspect I mean that its the glue that makes it so oppressive. Without the snare the entire cc becomes a lot easier to counter play. The snare is just the little push that makes a good CC really annoying to have to deal with repeatedly.