MaleAmazon wrote: »

There is a fundamental flaw in your premise. Group content is harder, not because of the design, but because it requires a group - that's 4 - 12 people working together, acting together, and not making mistakes together.

A solo player can make a mistake and survive. Two or three players making a mistake means a death or wipe. A solo player only has to deal with what the mobs are doing, a group has to deal with what the mobs and the rest of the group are doing.

That argument can be reversed though: As a group player, I just need to do my specific role. I mess up, I can be resurrected.

A dead player isn't "doing their specific role". A dead player also halts the "doing" of another player/role because that player has to stop doing their role to resurrect you.

A group player doesn't just need to do their specific role. They need to work with the other members of their group to ensure they succeed in "doing their specific role".

SilverBride wrote: »

MMO only means there are multiple players in the game world at the same time. It does NOT mean that we have to group with them. Yet we frequently hear things like:

• "It's an MMO and that means grouping."
• "If you don't want to group maybe an MMO isn't the right game for you."
• "If players only do solo content it makes it harder for others to find groups."

None of those are true. The game world is like real life in that each player can go about their day doing the things that they enjoy. And they should not be pressured or judged because of how they choose to spend their time.

No one should care how you play the game and 99% of people dont. Anyone that does is just socially awkward. But its also weird for people to want to play an mmo and then complain about group content. Most mmos have a big focus on group content. Just look at the most popular mmos. Personally i think the best mmos have a good balance of solo and group content. And as far as eso is concerned, its pretty friendly to solo players.

I just think most people that want to play solo need to understand this is an mmo and group content plays a huge role. Plus solo content is most of the game anyway. Every zone in the game is 90% solo focused if you want it to be. Like the chapter every year is mostly solo focused, then we get some dungeons, a trial, and a solo/group arena if were lucky.

But I also think its ironic that a lot of people like to talk about how people should be able to play how they want, and play solo, until it comes to solo pvp. Then it turns into "this is group content, this is faction warfare, you shouldnt play solo". Which is just as weird as people telling you that you shouldnt play the rest of the game how you want.

also if the topic is because of the solo dungeon, ya i think its a waste of time and resources. You can solo almost any dungeon in the game, on normal, with a decent pve build and minimal effort. Some you cant, like ones that specifically require another player to be there to do a mechanic or something, but thats not the majority. But im not against it for it being solo, i just think they could have spent the time on something better.

I'll try it with:

• "This is an MMO, this means there is a certain percentage of content exclusively designed for groups."
• "If you don't want content exclusively designed for groups to be in your game, maybe an MMO isn't the right game for you.

Solo player writing here, just passing time 'til TES6. So... another 2-3 years...

JBNimble wrote: »

If you don't want content exclusively designed for groups to be in your game, maybe an MMO isn't the right game for you.

That isn't the issue. The issue is being told that if we don't participate in group dungeons and would like a solo version, too then maybe we shouldn't play an MMO. THAT is wrong.

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

JBNimble wrote: »

If you don't want content exclusively designed for groups to be in your game, maybe an MMO isn't the right game for you.

That isn't the issue. The issue is being told that if we don't participate in group dungeons and would like a solo version, too then maybe we shouldn't play an MMO. THAT is wrong.

I would never say that. I would say that an MMO should focus on group activities.

All are welcome, but group focus should be prioritized over solo play.

Otherwise, we are all paying for an overpriced, subscription RPG where others are playing in parallel but not cooperatively.

Why? If I want to pay for an overpriced subscription RPG that is my choice. But that isn't happening because I interact with other players all the time.

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

JBNimble wrote: »

If you don't want content exclusively designed for groups to be in your game, maybe an MMO isn't the right game for you.

That isn't the issue. The issue is being told that if we don't participate in group dungeons and would like a solo version, too then maybe we shouldn't play an MMO. THAT is wrong.

I would never say that. I would say that an MMO should focus on group activities.

All are welcome, but group focus should be prioritized over solo play.

Otherwise, we are all paying for an overpriced, subscription RPG where others are playing in parallel but not cooperatively.

Group content shouldn’t be nerfed for solo play, but solo content still deserves to be added to the game, especially since this is the only multiplayer addition to the franchise (excluding the tabletop games, obviously, but even Legends had a solo mode!) We’ve had content for solo, small group, and large group every year for a long time, ZOS can certainly do both.

Hot take: People who refuse to socialize should not be facilitated in MMORPGs. You should be able to play part of the game but it's not a reasonable expectation for a player to go into a MMORPG and expect everything outside of dungeons and raids to be catered to them.

Designing all zones to be solo-able is such a an arbitrary design decision when we have NPC companions. If anything, it highlights the need for adventure zones like the original iterations of Murkmire and Craglorn.

Groups in this game mostly suck because of the people playing in the groups that only care about themselves.

Groups that play to have fun and are willing to care about others are ok.

Problem is most groups ruin it for me so I don't group!!!

I still like mmo's because they are evolving and have others in them!!!

Thalmar wrote: »

Of course I do group content such as battlegrounds and Solo Cyrodiil. It is really not fun to face with people one shot you,
just because they are in a guild or a part of a comunity and take place in group content. I have no problem with what I craft and content I do, the problem starts when I need to face with these people in pvp environments that gear makes huge difference.

Yes and no. A good player with bad gear beats a bad player with good gear any day of the week. Gear does matter, but more importantly you should do a good build and learn it inside out. After that, learning to survive is important. Only when all that is done, killing other players becomes a priority.

And what do I mean with "a good build?" Not necessarily a super sweaty meta build, but a build that has the toolbox you need and the defences and offenses you need. I have been doing Cyro and IC for a few hours now, not getting oneshotted, having fun. Killed a few, died a few, good times. And my build is (sssshhh, super secret build no one has ever done before) Balorgh, Mechanical Acuity, Wretched Vitality and Saint & Seducer mythic. That's it. Both 5pc sets are crafted, mythic can be dug from the ground and Balorgh is fairly easy to get but can be bought from the Golden Vendor if it happens to be there. And I run a pure class Templar. No subclassing. Of course Rallying Cry would have been better for back bar set, but I didn't have the transmutes so I just crafted Wretched Vitality.

Many of the used meta sets in PVP can be bought from Cyrodiil or IC vendors or earned there. Or you can buy them from guild stores. People in guilds have to do the same as you.

Only a few sets are in dungeons and trials. Balorgh, of course, if you want a huge burst. Anthelmir if you are a ganker. Both require 3 runs to get all the hats in your sticker book. And then some pledges to get the shoulders. Even as a solo player you should be able to get 4-6 undaunted keys per day per character. That is, unless you buy the monster sets from the Golden Vendor. vMoS and vOP are both soloable if you are serious about soloing so even for the hats you don't need a group.

The only thing that comes to mind right now is Null Arca. That is a trial set and yeah, that you don't solo.

In summary, crafted sets (with a monster and a mythic) are plenty to have a good time in Cyro, no need for any fancy PVP sets. PVP sets can be earned by playing PVP and you are on the same level as everyone else when it comes to obtaining PVP set. The usual monster sets can be soloed. Only Null Arca requires you to play in a group -- but that set is not a magical godmode set that makes you an unstoppable killing force. It works in those builds that uses it but none of my PVP builds use it and I'm doing... ok for a PVE player.

This is not a gear issue. This is a skill issue.

I am not just part of the solo community. I do group content, too. I am just clarifying that doing group end game is NOT expected of every player, and those that prefer solo play are playing the game just as correctly as anyone else. We have many different types of content to choose from, and we can do as much or as little as we choose, and it's all the correct way to play an MMO.

SilverBride wrote: »

MMO only means there are multiple players in the game world at the same time. It does NOT mean that we have to group with them. Yet we frequently hear things like:

• "It's an MMO and that means grouping."
• "If you don't want to group maybe an MMO isn't the right game for you."
• "If players only do solo content it makes it harder for others to find groups."

None of those are true. The game world is like real life in that each player can go about their day doing the things that they enjoy. And they should not be pressured or judged because of how they choose to spend their time.

All of those statements are true.

This thread just goes to show that the solo's are the most catered too but still not happy.

Solo players are not the victims the posters in this thread make themselves out to be. ESO caters primarily to solo players, not the other way around. I'm not understanding why the solo community is so unhappy and feeling so victimized when they're the most catered too already.

And if you don't have the skills to complete group content or work with others in a group, you don't deserve the rewards that go with those activities.

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Quoted post has been removed

You're right.

When is demanding a passable performance considered toxic, and the virtue of cooperation seen as oppressive? Most of the players I've encountered in groups won't even bother commenting on your performance if you're competent. The only people who really anger group members are those who are incompetent and arrogant. When someone points out that another member's DPS is insufficient, these incompetent players get agitated, as if we're all framing them, when in reality their DPS might be less than 10% (in four-man dungeon).

SilverBride wrote: »

This thread is about solo players being told that because it's an MMO they are expected to participate in group end game content. Some have even told solo players that if they don't group then they should not play an MMO. There has been pushback against the solo story mode dungeons being introduced, but for what reason?

There is a mistaken notion that solo means easy, but we don't know that. There could be regular and vet modes, and maybe even a hard mode scroll in these dungeons.

But the point is that solo play is every bit as appropriate in this game as anything else.

I am fully aware of what this thread is about.

All solo content in ESO is easy with the exception of vet Vatershran and Maelstrom arenas. And that's the problem. The solo content does not prepare players for group content; solo does not provide the social skills and learning of mechanics that make it possible to complete most group content. So nobody has the right to complain if they get kicked from a group because they haven't got "The Right Stuff".

And that is the reason for opposing "story mode" dungeons. It encourages people to try less and further divides the community based on their skill gap.

No effort should result in no rewards.

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

JBNimble wrote: »

If you don't want content exclusively designed for groups to be in your game, maybe an MMO isn't the right game for you.

That isn't the issue. The issue is being told that if we don't participate in group dungeons and would like a solo version, too then maybe we shouldn't play an MMO. THAT is wrong.

I would never say that. I would say that an MMO should focus on group activities.

All are welcome, but group focus should be prioritized over solo play.

Otherwise, we are all paying for an overpriced, subscription RPG where others are playing in parallel but not cooperatively.

Maybe in any other generic MMO, but in this case, not when it's based on an existing franchise, Elder Scrolls, which has always been solo player focused. ES fans would expect this (solo play) to be featured in an ES game, even an online one.

hiyde wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

Did we really need to have this argument? This seems obvious. No one is forcing anyone to group. If you want the things from group stuff you do it. If you want the things from pvp you pvp. If you can solo group stuff, awesome! This game shines when we have stuff for everyone.

I wish we didn't but judging and pressuring others to play the way someone else thinks they should, and telling them they shouldn't play an MMO unless they group still happens way too frequently.

Wow, I'm a lucky person! In decades of playing MMOs I've literally never once had that said to me.

But I've always believed that *all* types of content should have good & unique rewards and content, whether or not my play preferences block me from participating.

You must not read a lot of the threads in these forums, then, because some people have said things like that in just the last week or two-- and this certainly isn't the first time, either; it gets said from time to time people are talking about solo players. "If you don't want to play in a group, go replay Skyrim," or words to that effect. Whether it's phrased as "if you want to play solo" or "if you don't want to play in a group," the meaning and the sentiment is the same-- "get outta here and go play Skyrim."