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Meta sets need a bit toning down
Wup_sa
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Now that the chapter has been sold to those who will buy it. Perhaps it is finally time to nerf Monomyth reforged mythic as well as Null arca. Since Null arca is a trial set it should only work against monsters, because right now it hits harder than your average burst skill, while being only a proc set. Monomyth is just a mess as it is, there's simply no way to ever balance it if it offers major force.
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Oblivion_Protocol✭✭✭✭✭The funny thing is that with subclassing, the sets barely matter anymore. You could skip Null Arca and Monomyth completely, and still massacre people in PvP.3 -
albertberku✭✭✭✭This thread is silent because every build i see is using null arca in Cyrodiil. That says a lot about it. It is one of the main components of all those subclassing carry builds. You get about the same tooltip with Grim Focus and every 5 seconds? Has almost no indication that it will hit you when used at close range (which how everyone uses it). Come on now..Edited by albertberku on November 19, 2025 1:10PM5
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CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »The funny thing is that with subclassing, the sets barely matter anymore. You could skip Null Arca and Monomyth completely, and still massacre people in PvP.
While you definitely can, that doesn't excuse the power of Null Arca.
Do you need it to succeed? Not at all, but that doesn't mean it's okay that the set can hit for 10k+ on a very short cooldown with a laughably easy proc condition.2 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Even better, lets nerf every set except Adept Rider. No power, procs, or damage for anyone. That will make everyone happy. Nerfs for all!4 -
Jabbs_Giggity✭✭✭✭✭Sets like Null Arca in PvP wouldn't be so much of a discussion if comparable sets haven't been nerfed into not being usable.
It's the same rinse and repeat strategy. Create broken proc set, nerf set from over performing with no counter or no alternative to compete with. Create new set with the same conditions and repeat....
I would much rather see sets again that focused on non procs, like a set that buffs direct damage or aoe damage. Or sets that buff execute multipliers. Etc..3 -
Danse_Mayhem✭✭✭✭Null Arca.
Wretched vitality.
Rallying cry.
Balorghs.
Monomyth.
If you’re going to nerf one, nerf all of these since almost every build is some combination of this.▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ ＣＯＭＭＥＮＴ ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣＹ！
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YouTube.com/DarkProjectMayhem3 -
Oblivion_Protocol✭✭✭✭✭Everyone keeps calling for nerfs left and right. You see meta sets and decide they need “toning down”. But you all fail to realize something critical.
The second one thing gets nerfed, something else takes it’s place.
Maybe ZoS releases some new broken set. Maybe people rediscover an old set that suddenly becomes broken because of new circumstances. But no matter what, the meta will be the meta.
That’s why it’s better to ask ZoS to buff underperforming stuff rather than nerf overperforming or popular things. You’ll never have a balanced meta trying to play Nerf-a-Mole.7 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Problem with rallying cry is that you cant really nerf it. Zos had ballooned the number of crit damage sources in the game without creating matching crit resist sources. Which is why we are in this "tank" meta which relies on random burst combos. To live through the random crits we have to build exceptionally tankier and play defensively most of the time to compensate for randomly being blown out of the water. PvP will become unbearable with random crit being more of a factor instead of skill.
We calculated it all out in another thread, but the simple solution is to increase impen to a 10% mit buff instead of a 2% for now. Then you would slowly reduce impen back down to the 2% as more sources get added in the game.
For rallying cry I would probably replace the 2-4 piece lines with crit resist lines. Then remove the crit resist proc. The 5 piece should also be procced off of something like a single target heal.......Incentivizing and rewarding groups to spam aoe hot/buffs is a terrible way to reduce lag.I only use insightful2 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Once upon a time, nerfing "meta sets" made an 11 year old forgotten set called "Way of Fire" the meta. Then that was nerfed, too.
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ViggyBoi✭✭✭Hot take, pvp adjustments need to be made for a pvp problem instead of nerfing a pve set that pver's enjoy.4 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Danse_Mayhem wrote: »Null Arca.
Wretched vitality.
Rallying cry.
Balorghs.
Monomyth.
If you’re going to nerf one, nerf all of these since almost every build is some combination of this.
Yep, specially Rallying cry, it is on every build.
PC EU
PvP only0 -
Wup_sa✭✭✭Danse_Mayhem wrote: »Null Arca.
Wretched vitality.
Rallying cry.
Balorghs.
Monomyth.
If you’re going to nerf one, nerf all of these since almost every build is some combination of this.
Yep, specially Rallying cry, it is on every build.
Rallying cry will fall off as soon as crit damage gets nerfed from pvp or we are given more sources of impen. It's not really a problem.4 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Danse_Mayhem wrote: »Null Arca.
Wretched vitality.
Rallying cry.
Balorghs.
Monomyth.
If you’re going to nerf one, nerf all of these since almost every build is some combination of this.
Yep, specially Rallying cry, it is on every build.Danse_Mayhem wrote: »Null Arca.
Wretched vitality.
Rallying cry.
Balorghs.
Monomyth.
If you’re going to nerf one, nerf all of these since almost every build is some combination of this.
Yep, specially Rallying cry, it is on every build.
Rallying cry will fall off as soon as crit damage gets nerfed from pvp or we are given more sources of impen. It's not really a problem.
What Wup said. Rally cry is chosen out of necessity because zos added so many easy sources of crit damage, but failed to add more sources of crit resist. This combined with the subclassing access to the best timed burst skills in the game we now have everyone having to build overtanky in things like resists and healing to compensate for not enough crit resistance.
IDK if it was zos wanting the game to be this way, but generally in pvp environments players like to avoid having RNG dictate the outcome of the fights.I only use insightful3 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MincMincMinc wrote: »Danse_Mayhem wrote: »Null Arca.
Wretched vitality.
Rallying cry.
Balorghs.
Monomyth.
If you’re going to nerf one, nerf all of these since almost every build is some combination of this.
Yep, specially Rallying cry, it is on every build.Danse_Mayhem wrote: »Null Arca.
Wretched vitality.
Rallying cry.
Balorghs.
Monomyth.
If you’re going to nerf one, nerf all of these since almost every build is some combination of this.
Yep, specially Rallying cry, it is on every build.
Rallying cry will fall off as soon as crit damage gets nerfed from pvp or we are given more sources of impen. It's not really a problem.
What Wup said. Rally cry is chosen out of necessity because zos added so many easy sources of crit damage, but failed to add more sources of crit resist. This combined with the subclassing access to the best timed burst skills in the game we now have everyone having to build overtanky in things like resists and healing to compensate for not enough crit resistance.
IDK if it was zos wanting the game to be this way, but generally in pvp environments players like to avoid having RNG dictate the outcome of the fights.
Does that involve random Critical Heals bringing low-health targets back from death's door?
That is another, less noticed perhaps, unwanted overlap between damage and healing that ideally ought not to exist.1 -
Thumbless_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭BalanceDanse_Mayhem wrote: »Null Arca.
Wretched vitality.
Rallying cry.
Balorghs.
Monomyth.
If you’re going to nerf one, nerf all of these since almost every build is some combination of this.
Yep, specially Rallying cry, it is on every build.
Rallying cry will fall off as soon as crit damage gets nerfed from pvp or we are given more sources of impen. It's not really a problem.
Are either of those things in the release notes? I don't care about rally... literally at all.
just curious if I missed something.1 -
ViggyBoi✭✭✭Danse_Mayhem wrote: »Null Arca.
Wretched vitality.
Rallying cry.
Balorghs.
Monomyth.
If you’re going to nerf one, nerf all of these since almost every build is some combination of this.
Yep, specially Rallying cry, it is on every build.
Rallying cry will fall off as soon as crit damage gets nerfed from pvp or we are given more sources of impen. It's not really a problem.
crit damage isnt going anywhere until subclassing stops being the freest CTRL X button in the game. Its so easy to over invest you have to run rallying cry at this point0 -
ViggyBoi✭✭✭MincMincMinc wrote: »Danse_Mayhem wrote: »Null Arca.
Wretched vitality.
Rallying cry.
Balorghs.
Monomyth.
If you’re going to nerf one, nerf all of these since almost every build is some combination of this.
Yep, specially Rallying cry, it is on every build.Danse_Mayhem wrote: »Null Arca.
Wretched vitality.
Rallying cry.
Balorghs.
Monomyth.
If you’re going to nerf one, nerf all of these since almost every build is some combination of this.
Yep, specially Rallying cry, it is on every build.
Rallying cry will fall off as soon as crit damage gets nerfed from pvp or we are given more sources of impen. It's not really a problem.
What Wup said. Rally cry is chosen out of necessity because zos added so many easy sources of crit damage, but failed to add more sources of crit resist. This combined with the subclassing access to the best timed burst skills in the game we now have everyone having to build overtanky in things like resists and healing to compensate for not enough crit resistance.
IDK if it was zos wanting the game to be this way, but generally in pvp environments players like to avoid having RNG dictate the outcome of the fights.
Impen trait buffs when0 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭Null Arca, IMO, doesn’t need a nerf, the source of the problem does: CRIT.
Crit in PvP is ridiculous and the root cause of most issues in PvP, IMO.
Null Arca (mechanically) is similar to the BGM set from the Foundry except that rather than being proced by a world ability and consuming an inventory item, it’s proced by dealing crit, in a game where we’re neck deep in crit meta it’s easy to see how this set plays right into the broken crit mechanics we have.
Many sets and a fair number of abilities don’t need nerfs, per se. Going on a nerf spree doesn’t really fix the problem it just shifts it elsewhere.
Personally I want to see builds hit hard in PvE and have the creativity to mix and diversify build & play styles .. but in PvP we need a better balancing factor and BS isn’t it.
If the ability to multiply crit had a hard cap for PvP that immediately solves a lot of issues. Critical damage in any RPG has always been an incidental element, one players can put resources into in order to enhance but even then, up to real limits. Crit should never be a recurring norm for any build; at that point it’s no longer a “critical” it’s a “usual”.
Sets like Rally Cry would be fine the only difference would be they’d no longer need to be a staple in PvP. Null Arca, Wretched Vitality, etc can just work in a normal capacity at that point. Abilites that are PvP breaking like Deep Fissure, Surprise Attack, & Merciless Resolve can also function properly and we won’t have to constantly wonder what should or shouldn’t be nerfed.
When it comes to buffing or nerfing anything IMO the question should come down to the mechanics, not the output value. Because when output value is only rationale you’re never going to address the root of the problem; most of the time if you address the mechanic you fix the source and don’t have to do so many tweaks.Edited by NxJoeyD on January 24, 2026 8:49PM2 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Not a single mention of rush of agony, which is the biggest issue, and causation of the obnoxious meta we are in as a whole. Practically every woe trickles down from how rush of agony is abused in mass, in quantity. That's the first set that needs to be toned down, preferably removed from pvp entirely. At the very least given a proper delay and cooldown along with a pull that actually obeys CC immunity rules.2 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Not a single mention of rush of agony, which is the biggest issue, and causation of the obnoxious meta we are in as a whole. Practically every woe trickles down from how rush of agony is abused in mass, in quantity. That's the first set that needs to be toned down, preferably removed from pvp entirely. At the very least given a proper delay and cooldown along with a pull that actually obeys CC immunity rules.
They atleast made it bearable. IMO its still not the best design. I would do it differently.
After the gap closer trigger I would have the chains shoot out to enemies. Having the chains hit the affected players is crucial, so they know what is about to happen to their character. Then after a delay 0.7s to 1s you would do a stun+pull. At any point during the pull cc break should be able to be performed to gain immunity like any other stun.I only use insightful0 -
Wup_sa✭✭✭Not a single mention of rush of agony, which is the biggest issue, and causation of the obnoxious meta we are in as a whole. Practically every woe trickles down from how rush of agony is abused in mass, in quantity. That's the first set that needs to be toned down, preferably removed from pvp entirely. At the very least given a proper delay and cooldown along with a pull that actually obeys CC immunity rules.
It's a really easy set to counter, just block when you see red and walk out. The only thing making it broken is wardens charm since you will be always stunned without streak. But that's more of the issue of charm.0 -
Wup_sa✭✭✭Null Arca, IMO, doesn’t need a nerf, the source of the problem does: CRIT.
Crit in PvP is ridiculous and the root cause of most issues in PvP, IMO.
Null Arca (mechanically) is similar to the BGM set from the Foundry except that rather than being proced by a world ability and consuming an inventory item, it’s proced by dealing crit, in a game where we’re neck deep in crit meta it’s easy to see how this set plays right into the broken crit mechanics we have.
Many sets and a fair number of abilities don’t need nerfs, per se. Going on a nerf spree doesn’t really fix the problem it just shifts it elsewhere.
Personally I want to see builds hit hard in PvE and have the creativity to mix and diversify build & play styles .. but in PvP we need a better balancing factor and BS isn’t it.
If the ability to multiply crit had a hard cap for PvP that immediately solves a lot of issues. Critical damage in any RPG has always been an incidental element, one players can put resources into in order to enhance but even then, up to real limits. Crit should never be a recurring norm for any build; at that point it’s no longer a “critical” it’s a “usual”.
Sets like Rally Cry would be fine the only difference would be they’d no longer need to be a staple in PvP. Null Arca, Wretched Vitality, etc can just work in a normal capacity at that point. Abilites that are PvP breaking like Deep Fissure, Surprise Attack, & Merciless Resolve can also function properly and we won’t have to constantly wonder what should or shouldn’t be nerfed.
When it comes to buffing or nerfing anything IMO the question should come down to the mechanics, not the output value. Because when output value is only rationale you’re never going to address the root of the problem; most of the time if you address the mechanic you fix the source and don’t have to do so many tweaks.
Null arca is defenitely broken. A proc set should add a little damage if your build lacks it. It should not hit as hard as the 2nd cast of shalks. While crit is very broken in pvp, I don't think that proc sets should be forced onto everyone, just because they provide too much.0