what to do against shield basher dk in pvp?

Mephos · May 2014

Maybe someone can answer this to me.

I really love to fight all classes and all skills with my templar (VET6 atm). Even the bold escape mages have some fun aspects to hunt them down (it just gets boring really fast^^).

But I randomly encounter the following:

DK, heavy armor, shield bash, root..

normally I get shield charged and then bashed to death while lying on the ground. If I can use cc breaker in time, I start healing myself but bashing out dps my hps easie. If I try to run away I get rooted. I try to roll, I get shield charged and stunned again. The more I roll the less stamina I have for breaking the shield charge stun.

I can´t CC him since he always blocks while shield bashing.
I can´t run, gets rooted (also tried to dispell, but then I just get rooted again)
I can´t outheal his damage
I can´t survive until he lost his stamina for shield bashing

Just.. what can a templar actually do?
If you can´t CC someone because he always blocks, what should you do then?

I just don´t get it, this freaks me out .. everytime I meet someone like this I want to smash my keyboard against the wall.

Tripp3r · May 2014

big discussion going on about this on my thread.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/97526/shield-bashed-to-death#latest

but yeah as far as i can tell nothing, i just get stunned till i die.

ForTheRealm · May 2014

It's getting nerfed in v1.1.1 (at least that what patch note says), so a little bit of patience mate ;-)

JosephChip · May 2014

As a 1h+shield DK, yep, needs an hard nerf asap.

Gornt_Grimreaver · May 2014

How is this just a DK issue when every class can use a shield ? Are you complaining about DK's or just the 1h&shield line? I see plenty of Templars and other classes using shields.

crowfl56 · May 2014

bah nerf everything its all OP'd oh yeah ban all the VR10 exploiters

Drachenfier · May 2014

Bash can be blocked, just like any other attack. If you're getting killed while incapacitated, that can happen with any other attack too.

So.....

Block, use CC break, use your own CC. I'm assuming you're not really asking for advice, just making a thread to whine about DK's and shield bash.

JosephChip · May 2014

Shield bash in general is too strong. You would think bashing someone with a shield would deal less damage than hitting him with your main weapon. Shield bash should be a defensive ability intended for blocking and countering. As of now it does all of that plus more dps than most other abilities. If it gets to a point where the best way to deal with your enemy is to spam a single button, you know something isn't right. I understand people against balancing shield bash are players who mainly rely on it.

limeli8 · May 2014

Well you can cast rapid maneuver and immovable and as long as you don't attack you can just run away.

zaria · May 2014

JosephChip wrote: »

Shield bash in general is too strong. You would think bashing someone with a shield would deal less damage than hitting him with your main weapon. Shield bash should be a defensive ability intended for blocking and countering. As of now it does all of that plus more dps than most other abilities. If it gets to a point where the best way to deal with your enemy is to spam a single button, you know something isn't right. I understand people against balancing shield bash are players who mainly rely on it.

True, block+ kickback and some disorient, rater buff some other abilities for shield users to increase damage.

Vantor · May 2014

Gornt_Grimreaver wrote: »

How is this just a DK issue when every class can use a shield ? Are you complaining about DK's or just the 1h&shield line? I see plenty of Templars and other classes using shields.

The thing with DK + 1h & Shield is the combo with inescapable Talons.

Brittany_Joy · May 2014

You need the power of the dual wielders! Sparks negates all bash damage for 4 sec and you can keep applying it. Next, you will need abilities that make you immune to stuns or armor that reduces the dodge cost. You will also need healing reduction abilities with some great nuking skeels. Once you have all that I have mentioned you can defeat them.

Bhakura · May 2014

Or just get this:

Mephos · May 2014

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

You need the power of the dual wielders! Sparks negates all bash damage for 4 sec and you can keep applying it. Next, you will need abilities that make you immune to stuns or armor that reduces the dodge cost. You will also need healing reduction abilities with some great nuking skeels. Once you have all that I have mentioned you can defeat them.

thx for the advice. actually it was not a "whine" topic, but more actually a "i was looking for advice"

I know this topic has been discussed overall and that it maybe gets adressed in the 1.1.1 patch. however I have the problem at the moment and maybe there are people that have a technique against it.

currently I just counter it with mist form and run like a ***. they can even shield bash you out of mist form if they time it right to the beginning (which is ok for me, it cancels a spell like it should be).

the 4 sec debuff is a pretty good idea, thx for that.

I really hoped for more constructiv discussion. however the forum seems full of whiners and people whining about the whiners..

i think many of you got sick about complaining, how about actually inventing tactics against things so that it needs no nervig.

people mostly scream for nerfs if they don´t understand to counter it. I don´t day that stuff that is obiviously is OP should not be nerfed, just that learning and understanding is the first step.

just my opinion.. now go on flaming me for asking for help..

Thunder · May 2014

Drachenfier wrote: »

I'm assuming you're not really asking for advice, just making a thread to whine about DK's and shield bash.

I'm assuming you're a DK shield basher.

In MMOs there are always unforeseen combinations of classes and abilities that when used in just the right combination are much more powerful than intended by the developer. Such situations are a valid topic of discussion.

Furthermore, the OP did exactly the right thing. They came here asking for possible solutions they might have overlooked, not demanding nerfs. So far there hasn't been many suggestions on countering it, and it appears it's being addressed in an upcoming patch, so it certainly seems to be a legitimate problem.

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO · May 2014

Well only DKs can talon and lolbash to oblivion, right?

Mephos · May 2014

for me it happens mostly only with talon & bash that I don´t know how to counter it. I did a lot of 1vs1 against other templar with bash skillung and it is difficult but since I can move away from them freely (or slowed through vampire bane) I could sustain myself and actually fight.

not that I would have any clue how to CC or break the blocking. I just try to drain stamina from them as fast as possible and hope I still have some magicka left after that to actually do damage to them.

Drachenfier · May 2014

Thunder wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

I'm assuming you're not really asking for advice, just making a thread to whine about DK's and shield bash.

I'm assuming you're a DK shield basher.

I'm a Templar biting jab spammer. Don't have any problem with shield bashers either, I learned this miraculous ability called block.

hamon · May 2014

Mephos wrote: »

Maybe someone can answer this to me. ......

.

i know its broken , but be carefull what you wish for as a templar just about to hit v10 i really founf vet mobs a pain as a tempar untill i started using bash to kill stuff... all i can say when they nerf this , which they will cos its crazy that its so much the way to do it. they better buff other weapons attacks or grinding vet lvl's on a templar is gonna be sooooo much more painful. thank god i,ll be finished with it by then.

Drachenfier · May 2014

hamon wrote: »

Mephos wrote: »

Maybe someone can answer this to me. ......

.

thank god i,ll be finished with it by then.

Huh Uh....there's three more vet levels coming

YuccaPalm · May 2014

Bash does around 200 dmg unbuffed, not op. Bash is the only half way good way to play melee in this game.

xxMemphis · May 2014

I will agree that bash does a lot of damage. I would gladly use something other than my shield to beat you if the weapon I carried did anything. I do agree that the people that complain about DK using talons and bash to kill people in PVP seldom if ever block at all. I have a friend who just hit 50 and finally realized that you can interrupt and block (he is a templar healer)..he also realized that it can make a huge difference in survivability. I am not saying that the class doesn't need changes but so does the community...how often do you see DK coming in here saying "man that DK on the other side was just using talons and bash to kill me....I couldn't do anything" almost never...why because they all block a lot like all the time....sorc, temps, nightblades....seldom block anything...its always a DPS race not a survival thing.

temjiu · May 2014

It's not necessarily bash that is the issue. Its the current mechanic as to how bash interacts with + bash damage items. math is off, and the items give bash far too much damage. coming from the perspective of a tank (PvE only, i don't PvP), bash with no damage boosts is pretty balanced. you can do the same damage with a weapon in your hands and using the bash skill.

the wicked combo is reliant on 3 things: + bash damage, DK's inherent CC skills (talons, AoE root + damage over time, pretty OP IMO), and the defensive bonuses brought about by shield use.

Hopefully over time they can balance these aspects a bit more carefully. but in the meantime...the craiglorn patch will fix the sky high bash damage were dealing with atm...

temjiu · May 2014

xxMemphis wrote: »

I will agree that bash does a lot of damage. I would gladly use something other than my shield to beat you if the weapon I carried did anything. I do agree that the people that complain about DK using talons and bash to kill people in PVP seldom if ever block at all. I have a friend who just hit 50 and finally realized that you can interrupt and block (he is a templar healer)..he also realized that it can make a huge difference in survivability. I am not saying that the class doesn't need changes but so does the community...how often do you see DK coming in here saying "man that DK on the other side was just using talons and bash to kill me....I couldn't do anything" almost never...why because they all block a lot like all the time....sorc, temps, nightblades....seldom block anything...its always a DPS race not a survival thing.

Fantastic points Memphis. Im amazed at how many people don't even think about blocking themselves...or they forget that even with a weapon you can bash things. The real difference is that most shiedl carriers think about block and bash, allot of casters rarely do.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · May 2014

I dunno. My witch just keeps knocking them down. It's a big part of what she does. Once down, a variety of choices are available, and if there's a pack along it's pretty well all she does. She does not go near them, she has people and pets for that.

Discipline is taught very well by this game. A well run sorc with a big pool and rapid regeneration can practice it with some glee. She is a bit fragile though. She does not like stuff on her shoes.

I have a DK who has points in bash and a rather good Kajiit NB and if you can't burst the DK way down it will not go well, he is really hard to kill. I don't think my Kajiit could take my DK but my witch would destroy both of em'.

Oh yeah, I have hard break bound to my 0 numpad key and it sits right beside my trackball, it's a big key and quite useful.

Raubrey · May 2014

Thunder wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

I'm assuming you're not really asking for advice, just making a thread to whine about DK's and shield bash.

I'm assuming you're a DK shield basher.

In MMOs there are always unforeseen combinations of classes and abilities that when used in just the right combination are much more powerful than intended by the developer. Such situations are a valid topic of discussion.

Furthermore, the OP did exactly the right thing. They came here asking for possible solutions they might have overlooked, not demanding nerfs. So far there hasn't been many suggestions on countering it, and it appears it's being addressed in an upcoming patch, so it certainly seems to be a legitimate problem.

Thanks for being a voice of reason. This forum could use more people like you.

As for the DK issue...I don't have a solution other than what I've done in my limited experience, since my main role in PvP is as a Khajiit NB healer (though I'm Siphon/ DPS spec'd) -- it's usually the DKs who get me but I try to keep myself insulated and move a lot and don't usually die too much unless in a zerg and overrun ...or I get too aggressive/careless.

That said, I took out a vampire DK (not sure what level) with his wings a flapping and everything. In that scenario we were 1v1 and ran into each other in a dungeon. I think we were both surprised (momentarily caught of guard, so reaction time was key) I wanted to run but knew I'd be dead if I tried.

My survival instincts took over and I did (something like) uppercut, immovable, Soul Tether ultimate, uppercut, and siphoning the heck out of him thoughout.

The thing was I got the stun on him first. So maybe you can apply this to DKs...get them from behind or when they aren't paying attention. I know not all classes can take them down and skill sets vary (I'm an average player -- I don't PvP a lot) but it might make it so you do kill some of them and have much enjoyment in doing so.

Oh, and to celebrate I shot a sorc off their horse and chased them down with my bow. Was a really good night

hamon · May 2014

you must have found the only sorc in pvp who doesnt have bolt slotted for "i'm not allowed to be killed i'm a sorc" mode. gratz