Battlespirit HOT modifier

fizzybeef · January 13

Does this mean if im in a keep fight and 3 randoms arround me use hots, i recieve 50% less healing overall?
Or is it just about the hots?
As soon i have 3 hots on me 50% percent healing recieved overall?

Radiate77 · January 13

fizzybeef wrote: »

Does this mean if im in a keep fight and 3 randoms arround me use hots, i recieve 50% less healing overall?
Or is it just about the hots?
As soon i have 3 hots on me 50% percent healing recieved overall?

Yes
No
Yes

Thumbless_Bot · January 13

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/687450/cyrodiil-healing-nerf#latest

Radiate77 · January 13

^ There’s a huge active thread pushing back against this in the PTS section if you wanna come voice your opinion.

fizzybeef · January 13

ayo this is dumb af xD

BXR_Lonestar · January 13

Honestly, the best way to ruin heal stacking is to fix how healing works so that it is not the inverse of damage dealing.

Hear me out. Heal stacking works because players can build purely for damage, and because healing works on the same base stats as offensive abilities, building for damage also means your heals are going to also be strong. In other words, if you want strong heals, just build for offensive stats. This is what will allow sweaty groups to survive even without a dedicated healer - because they have strong offensive stats AND they are heal stacking.

If you made healing based on its own stats that are NOT beneficial for any other character to stack (or you just wouldn't stack it if you wanted to do damage), you would weaken healing on damage dealers to the point that it is just pointless for them to try to run a heal because its a waste of space on their bar.

This will reduce heal stacking by approximately 50%, if not more, based on group composition because your damage dealers, pulls, tanks, etc., are no longer able to contribute to heal stacking with skills like vigor and radiating regen.

This won't work for groups running multiple healers, who will still be able to HOT stack, but I think it is a necessary first step towards balancing things in PVP - make changes to the game to force healers to be healers, damage dealers to be damage dealers, and tanks to be tanks. Then you can really start to fix some of the things that are broken with this game.

Take this first step, and then see the impact before you make drastic adjustments to healing. If heal stacking is still too strong, then you can start to make targeted abilities, sets, etc. to serve as hard counters to heals and heal stacking

YandereGirlfriend · January 13

This proposed change is a complete disaster that should be banished back to the Deadlands where it belongs.

Fortunately, it is easy so solve the intended issue without wrecking the rest of the game in the process!

Step 1: When Battlespirit is active, disallow sticky HOTs of the same morph from stacking on targets (e.g. they overwrite each other rather than stack).

Step 2: Congrats, you have solved the problem.

Ugrak · January 13

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

players can build purely for damage, and because healing works on the same base stats as offensive abilities, building for damage also means your heals are going to also be strong.

If you made healing based on its own stats that are NOT beneficial for any other character to stack (or you just wouldn't stack it if you wanted to do damage), you would weaken healing on damage dealers to the point that it is just pointless for them to try to run a heal because its a waste of space on their bar.

make changes to the game to force healers to be healers, damage dealers to be damage dealers, and tanks to be tanks. Then you can really start to fix some of the things that are broken with this game.

Another option I have considered along a similar line of thought is when you set your role as tank, heal or damage, that it alters your character and skills into a tank, heal or damage version of your entire character, scaling your damage, healing or tankiness somehow and enforcing a trade-off.

This might also be a way to get at the fake role issue in dungeons.

Radiate77 · January 13

This has officially been rolled back. 😅

SwordOfSagas · January 13

Ball groups win I guess...

amiiegee · January 14

It´s a win for everyone tbh, these planned change was terrible. Im just afraid for what they come up with next.

BXR_Lonestar · January 14

SwordOfSagas wrote: »

Ball groups win I guess...

You do realize EVERYONE can benefit from heal stacking, not just ball groups? It's a tactic that every random group can use - come together and equip radiating regen and echoing vigor on your back bar, and play as a unit. Quite literally EVERYONE in the game can do this, and it can only help those random groups.

I only hear complaints about heal stacking from people who refuse to do it...

By the way, you should also know that most ball groups now are carrying 6-8 healers, which is why they are more difficult to kill. The current damage meta is so powerful that you don't need that many DD's so long as they are on point to get kills, so the number of healers people are using now has skyrocketed.

DestroyerPewnack · January 14

First time seeing this. I'm guessing this will be on top of the default healing reduction in PvP, right? o_O

tomofhyrule · January 14

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

First time seeing this. I'm guessing this will be on top of the default healing reduction in PvP, right? o_O

Look again. It's being rethought.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

First, thanks to everyone for providing so much feedback in this thread, and especially for those that were able to hop on the PTS this week to try out this change in real time. We’ve heard your feedback loud and clear – both from this thread and other sources – and we’d like to let you know we are planning to revert the Heal over Time on Battlespirit in next week’s PTS patch.

For additional context, the initial reasoning behind this change was to help with a common complaint we’ve seen over the years that healing feels too strong, most notably with stacked HoTs. Transparently, we simply don’t have the time or bandwidth to fully change healing capabilities without significantly affecting future class reworks, which is why we landed with this option, but it clearly missed the mark.

We’ll explore other options to address concerns around healing and damage shields in PvP to be released in a future update, and we’ll share some ideas prior to it hitting the PTS so you can be more involved in the process. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts here, and again, you can expect the revert to occur in next week’s PTS patch.

joshisanonymous · January 14

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Honestly, the best way to ruin heal stacking is to fix how healing works so that it is not the inverse of damage dealing.

Hear me out. Heal stacking works because players can build purely for damage, and because healing works on the same base stats as offensive abilities, building for damage also means your heals are going to also be strong. In other words, if you want strong heals, just build for offensive stats. This is what will allow sweaty groups to survive even without a dedicated healer - because they have strong offensive stats AND they are heal stacking.

If you made healing based on its own stats that are NOT beneficial for any other character to stack (or you just wouldn't stack it if you wanted to do damage), you would weaken healing on damage dealers to the point that it is just pointless for them to try to run a heal because its a waste of space on their bar.

This will reduce heal stacking by approximately 50%, if not more, based on group composition because your damage dealers, pulls, tanks, etc., are no longer able to contribute to heal stacking with skills like vigor and radiating regen.

This won't work for groups running multiple healers, who will still be able to HOT stack, but I think it is a necessary first step towards balancing things in PVP - make changes to the game to force healers to be healers, damage dealers to be damage dealers, and tanks to be tanks. Then you can really start to fix some of the things that are broken with this game.

Take this first step, and then see the impact before you make drastic adjustments to healing. If heal stacking is still too strong, then you can start to make targeted abilities, sets, etc. to serve as hard counters to heals and heal stacking

Yeah, I can't think of any other PvP MMO where building for damage is essentially the same as building for healing. It makes no sense at all.

fizzybeef · January 15

Even 33% reduction is to much. And 5 hots aint much either, i can have 3 by myself. Accidently get hit by 2 random hots and have 50% heal reduction is crazy

Oblivion_Protocol · January 15

I’ve got to be honest here. In the years I’ve played this game, I’ve seen many, many changes announced in a PTS cycle that received pushback from the community and went through anyway. Pages and pages of forum posts, Reddit threads, in-game comments, YouTube videos from significant creators weren’t enough to make the devs budge on things like subclassing, Templar Jabs changes, various nerfs and buffs, etc.

But heal stacking finally gets touched, and after a modicum of community outcry, there’s an INSTANTANEOUS response and a rollback, all within less than a week.

I’ll give ZOS the benefit of the doubt and say that it’s due to their newer policies on communication and transparency. And for that I say, kudos. But I’m also going to say that if you guys don’t keep this same energy for any other changes that receive overwhelmingly negative feedback, this heal change rollback is going to look like the most biased b.s. you’ve ever pulled, and it will kill any goodwill you’ve built up as surely as a bullet to the head.

edward_frigidhands · January 15

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

SwordOfSagas wrote: »

Ball groups win I guess...

You do realize EVERYONE can benefit from heal stacking, not just ball groups? It's a tactic that every random group can use - come together and equip radiating regen and echoing vigor on your back bar, and play as a unit. Quite literally EVERYONE in the game can do this, and it can only help those random groups.

I only hear complaints about heal stacking from people who refuse to do it...

By the way, you should also know that most ball groups now are carrying 6-8 healers, which is why they are more difficult to kill. The current damage meta is so powerful that you don't need that many DD's so long as they are on point to get kills, so the number of healers people are using now has skyrocketed.

A lot of people lack this understanding because they either don't have experience fighting these groups or don't have the add-ons necessary to see what they are looking at.