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Class reworks and Subclassing
rafaelcsmaia
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First of all, I have to say I absolutely love the idea of the subclassing system and the reworks were definitelly needed. Ive been an advocate of more class freedom for at least 6 years now and I really welcomed the change. That being said, and since the cat is out of the bag, what is preventing us from having a means to change the base class of the character?
The argument of "It will be hard to code" or "break the game" has been thrown out of the window when subclassing arrived, and since all classes will be reworked to the point you might like one better than your current main, this might be the right time to have this option.
I see the DK revamp really focuses on having more skills of the class on the bar so it becomes more and more powerful and I believe this is the right way to do it to restore pure class identity, but if I like DK more than the sorc changes, I'd like to be able to switch.
The argument of "It will be hard to code" or "break the game" has been thrown out of the window when subclassing arrived, and since all classes will be reworked to the point you might like one better than your current main, this might be the right time to have this option.
I see the DK revamp really focuses on having more skills of the class on the bar so it becomes more and more powerful and I believe this is the right way to do it to restore pure class identity, but if I like DK more than the sorc changes, I'd like to be able to switch.
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Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rafaelcsmaia wrote: »The argument of "It will be hard to code" or "break the game" has been thrown out of the window when subclassing arrived, and since all classes will be reworked to the point you might like one better than your current main, this might be the right time to have this option.
Flawed premise. Replacing the current spaghetti code and information storage (which is what a class change would require) is far more difficult than simply adding in additional clean code to store the information on the new lines.
PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!1 -
Vulkunne✭✭✭✭✭
✭rafaelcsmaia wrote: »The argument of "It will be hard to code" or "break the game" has been thrown out of the window when subclassing arrived, and since all classes will be reworked to the point you might like one better than your current main, this might be the right time to have this option.
Flawed premise. Replacing the current spaghetti code and information storage (which is what a class change would require) is far more difficult than simply adding in additional clean code to store the information on the new lines.
If they are force 'resetting' all the classes, then we should have the right to 'opt out' of their reset and have at least one opportunity to choose a different class/path. It has everything to do with that and whatever else is just excuses. If they can make subclassing work this flawlessly, if they can make this many different changes to the classes themselves, then no there's nothing stopping them from providing a class change token.
Its 2026 I am a programmer, I am also well versed in Database as well and if they want to make these changes, it can be done. If the code is bad, then it needs to be replaced, doesn't it? If the Database is wrong, then it too needs to be rebuilt. All of it... can be done... if that is the real issue and I'm not completely convinced that it is.
And if it was, all or parts of the job could be outsourced either to another company or to a different team under MS Umbrella itself. You can't just tell us anything man, I mean if this was like a smaller company or something like that then yeah ok. But it's not. You're saying a MS Subsidiary can't fix their coding and DB issues? C'mon man.Edited by Vulkunne on January 13, 2026 12:42AM"Today Victory is mine. Long Live the Empire." - Grand Admiral Vulkunne0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rafaelcsmaia wrote: »The argument of "It will be hard to code" or "break the game" has been thrown out of the window when subclassing arrived, and since all classes will be reworked to the point you might like one better than your current main, this might be the right time to have this option.
Flawed premise. Replacing the current spaghetti code and information storage (which is what a class change would require) is far more difficult than simply adding in additional clean code to store the information on the new lines.
If they are force 'resetting' all the classes, then we should have the right to 'opt out' of their reset and have at least one opportunity to choose a different class/path. It has everything to do with that and whatever else is just excuses. If they can make subclassing work this flawlessly, if they can make this many different changes to the classes themselves, then no there's nothing stopping them from providing a class change token.
Its 2026 I am a programmer, I am also well versed in Database as well and if they want to make these changes, it can be done. If the code is bad, then it needs to be replaced, doesn't it? If the Database is wrong, then it too needs to be rebuilt. All of it... can be done... if that is the real issue and I'm not completely convinced that it is.
And if it was, all or parts of the job could be outsourced either to another company or to a different team under MS Umbrella itself. You can't just tell us anything man, I mean if this was like a smaller company or something like that then yeah ok. But it's not. You're saying a MS Subsidiary can't fix their coding and DB issues? C'mon man.
And the magic money tree pays for it all.PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!1 -
rafaelcsmaia✭✭✭✭✭
✭rafaelcsmaia wrote: »The argument of "It will be hard to code" or "break the game" has been thrown out of the window when subclassing arrived, and since all classes will be reworked to the point you might like one better than your current main, this might be the right time to have this option.
Flawed premise. Replacing the current spaghetti code and information storage (which is what a class change would require) is far more difficult than simply adding in additional clean code to store the information on the new lines.
I honestly dont get what you're saying, an option to change all 3 lines instead of just 1 per class is redoing it? Mind you I am a full time developer, if it is this hard to do it, then i agree with the comment above, it should all be redone. Also, dont need to be stingy with the money tree comment, we all know this would be a token they can monetize off, dont troll farm here.0 -
Dagoth_Rac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rafaelcsmaia wrote: »rafaelcsmaia wrote: »The argument of "It will be hard to code" or "break the game" has been thrown out of the window when subclassing arrived, and since all classes will be reworked to the point you might like one better than your current main, this might be the right time to have this option.
Flawed premise. Replacing the current spaghetti code and information storage (which is what a class change would require) is far more difficult than simply adding in additional clean code to store the information on the new lines.
I honestly dont get what you're saying, an option to change all 3 lines instead of just 1 per class is redoing it? Mind you I am a full time developer, if it is this hard to do it, then i agree with the comment above, it should all be redone. Also, dont need to be stingy with the money tree comment, we all know this would be a token they can monetize off, dont troll farm here.
It's not just about being able to monetize, but opportunity cost. If it costs 20 million dollars in time/resources to develop a class change token because character is deeply tied to class in some convoluted foundational code from 2007, and they don't foresee selling 20 million in class change tokens, then it is not a money maker. Or, if it costs 20 million dollars in time/resources to develop and they foresee selling 30 million in class change tokens, but 20 million spent on a different project forecasts as 50 million in revenue, that will get precedence over the class change token.1 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rafaelcsmaia wrote: »rafaelcsmaia wrote: »The argument of "It will be hard to code" or "break the game" has been thrown out of the window when subclassing arrived, and since all classes will be reworked to the point you might like one better than your current main, this might be the right time to have this option.
Flawed premise. Replacing the current spaghetti code and information storage (which is what a class change would require) is far more difficult than simply adding in additional clean code to store the information on the new lines.
I honestly dont get what you're saying, an option to change all 3 lines instead of just 1 per class is redoing it? Mind you I am a full time developer, if it is this hard to do it, then i agree with the comment above, it should all be redone. Also, dont need to be stingy with the money tree comment, we all know this would be a token they can monetize off, dont troll farm here.
That's the point though. It isn't as simple as simply changing 3 skill lines. Sub-Classing works because it essentially adds 18 skill lines and tracks the progression and whether they are equipped etc. (Soft-coded)
A class change would require altering the 3 base skill lines that are essentially hard-coded at character creation, and all the associated data with that class is then stored (from the sound of what ZOS say) across multiple different databases, with multiple flags all over the place. They would have to trace every flag, every piece of data, and be 100% sure they got them all, and then work out a way to update those without breaking anything in code that is absolute spaghetti. That also includes links between toon and account.
So, one missed account flag, or one missed animation flag, or one missed flag of any kind and you could corrupt not only the character but also the account. It would take a huge amount of development time, wiht multiple passes, multiple tests, including long term testing over the course of all content and all events to ensure nothing bugs. Or they could just tell you, we don't think it's possible but you have multiple class slots to create another toon.PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!1 -
rafaelcsmaia✭✭✭✭✭
✭That only makes sense if you know how they coded the game, either to assume the code is a mess or it needs to be done like this or that, they way you talk makes it looks that either their code sucks or theyre outright incompetent to handle changes (or both), ive been here for quite some time and Ive see the same comments about race change, subclassing, alliance change, you name it, all without the game completelly being destroyed. I made this post to see if i get any developer attention, not to argue.
I again have to say i agree with the other post above, if theyre redoing everything, I gotta have the right to opt out to whatever they do with the character I play.1 -
rafaelcsmaia✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dagoth_Rac wrote: »rafaelcsmaia wrote: »rafaelcsmaia wrote: »The argument of "It will be hard to code" or "break the game" has been thrown out of the window when subclassing arrived, and since all classes will be reworked to the point you might like one better than your current main, this might be the right time to have this option.
Flawed premise. Replacing the current spaghetti code and information storage (which is what a class change would require) is far more difficult than simply adding in additional clean code to store the information on the new lines.
I honestly dont get what you're saying, an option to change all 3 lines instead of just 1 per class is redoing it? Mind you I am a full time developer, if it is this hard to do it, then i agree with the comment above, it should all be redone. Also, dont need to be stingy with the money tree comment, we all know this would be a token they can monetize off, dont troll farm here.
It's not just about being able to monetize, but opportunity cost. If it costs 20 million dollars in time/resources to develop a class change token because character is deeply tied to class in some convoluted foundational code from 2007, and they don't foresee selling 20 million in class change tokens, then it is not a money maker. Or, if it costs 20 million dollars in time/resources to develop and they foresee selling 30 million in class change tokens, but 20 million spent on a different project forecasts as 50 million in revenue, that will get precedence over the class change token.
They're redoing all classes for basically free, its a quality of life change that would be welcomed by a lot of people.0 -
SolarRune✭✭✭✭I thought this was all covered last year, subclassing was the offering because class change tokens were not seen as a viable development.
You are right that there may become a time where it is worth while, but that they chose to write and implement a new core system that was released as part of base game, instead of doing a class change token speaks volumes to me for how easy it must be.0 -
rafaelcsmaia✭✭✭✭✭
✭I thought this was all covered last year, subclassing was the offering because class change tokens were not seen as a viable development.
You are right that there may become a time where it is worth while, but that they chose to write and implement a new core system that was released as part of base game, instead of doing a class change token speaks volumes to me for how easy it must be.
Fair enough, that makes sense actually, but then making subclass allow more than 1 different than main class line could be enough, only thing you wouldnt be able to do is use class sets for your main class.0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rafaelcsmaia wrote: »That only makes sense if you know how they coded the game, either to assume the code is a mess or it needs to be done like this or that, they way you talk makes it looks that either their code sucks or theyre outright incompetent to handle changes (or both), ive been here for quite some time and Ive see the same comments about race change, subclassing, alliance change, you name it, all without the game completelly being destroyed. I made this post to see if i get any developer attention, not to argue.
You should google the history of ZOS and ESO coding - they have openly admitted the original code is a mess. "Spaghetti" isn't my term for describing it - it is theirs. So, yes we do know how they coded the game - badly.rafaelcsmaia wrote: »I again have to say i agree with the other post above, if theyre redoing everything, I gotta have the right to opt out to whatever they do with the character I play.
[snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 13, 2026 7:21PMPC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!0 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭rafaelcsmaia wrote: »That only makes sense if you know how they coded the game, either to assume the code is a mess or it needs to be done like this or that, they way you talk makes it looks that either their code sucks or theyre outright incompetent to handle changes (or both), ive been here for quite some time and Ive see the same comments about race change, subclassing, alliance change, you name it, all without the game completelly being destroyed. I made this post to see if i get any developer attention, not to argue.
I again have to say i agree with the other post above, if theyre redoing everything, I gotta have the right to opt out to whatever they do with the character I play.
The sad truth is that the only real right players have is to walk away.0