Tome/Pass & ESO Plus - Actual Solution

SneaK · January 8

Maybe it’s already planned similar I dunno. But,,,

Just let us buy the passes with crowns.

Example:
Free = Free
Paid = 3000 crowns or ESO+
Premium = 3000 crowns and must be ESO+ member to purchase..

That gives incentive to still do ESO + cause we get crowns monthly, we can save up two months worth and still have 1500 leftover after buying the premium [Although you know your consumer will blow them anyway without saving and buy more so they can get the pass]. It also rewards vet players who have lots of crowns, and might entice some that left the game to come back to it cause they won’t have to get locked into anything and likely have crowns on their account.

This is a simplified method, stop adding so much currency in game but still requiring certain content to be actual dollars/pesos/pounds/whatever.

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno
I know yall aren’t giddy about specifics, but this drives your bottom line and grants accessibility for people to get back into the game.

Blood_again · January 8

I agree. Let us feel a real benefit of our ESO+

I'm OK even with 6k crown & eso+ for Tome++
Kinda let me choose if I spend all my annual ESO+ crowns on 2 season tomes + 1 tome for tokens, or lose some seasons to have something else for the rest of the crowns.

Malyore · January 8

I think it's fine as it is. The content is free.
You can just keep your ESO+ subscription and play whatever new content they release.

SneaK · January 8

Malyore wrote: »

I think it's fine as it is. The content is free.
You can just keep your ESO+ subscription and play whatever new content they release.

There’s literally no reason to keep ESO+ other than a craft bag, and ESO+ isn’t cheap. Selling the passes for crowns would incentivize keeping ESO+ as a consumer. Also the craft bag is currently mandatory, but in the future if they keep requiring less and less physical storage (like transmog/vaults/achives/etc) the craft bag itself won’t be “needed”. This is the best of both worlds for players and ZOS, people will still need to spend actual money on crowns, and/or maintain ESO+.

Malyore · January 8

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

I think it's fine as it is. The content is free.
You can just keep your ESO+ subscription and play whatever new content they release.

There’s literally no reason to keep ESO+ other than a craft bag, and ESO+ isn’t cheap. Selling the passes for crowns would incentivize keeping ESO+ as a consumer. Also the craft bag is currently mandatory, but in the future if they keep requiring less and less physical storage (like transmog/vaults/achives/etc) the craft bag itself won’t be “needed”. This is the best of both worlds for players and ZOS, people will still need to spend actual money on crowns, and/or maintain ESO+.

Craft bag, additional crowns, housing limit, transmute limit, bank limit, additional time for antiquities.

The price of ESO+ hasn't changed. If you were fine with feeling it was a mandatory purchase before during chapters, then why is it suddenly bad now? The experience of ESO+ users has not changed– you get access to its perks as well as new content, without even having to buy a chapter.
In the US, the subscription is about the cost of one hour of work at a job of starting pay, spent per month. But I recognize in other countries that the cost ratio can make the subscription much more expensive.

I also don't think the craft bag is even mandatory to maintain constantly, unless you happen to actually be an extensive crafter and need to get every material you can.
I run my ESO+ on a month by month basis. When the game isn't meeting my standards, I don't pay into it. I can still play with my gear, do quests, do group content, etc. I just don't grab every plant or deconstruct every item. I maybe let my writ boxes build up a little before opening and sorting them, too.
You still have access to everything in your craft bag after your subscription has expired. You just can't put new things in it.

If you're not feeling incentivized to pay for ESO+, that's totally fine. Respect your standards and your money to get what's most right for you.

lillybit · January 9

Malyore wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

I think it's fine as it is. The content is free.
You can just keep your ESO+ subscription and play whatever new content they release.

There’s literally no reason to keep ESO+ other than a craft bag, and ESO+ isn’t cheap. Selling the passes for crowns would incentivize keeping ESO+ as a consumer. Also the craft bag is currently mandatory, but in the future if they keep requiring less and less physical storage (like transmog/vaults/achives/etc) the craft bag itself won’t be “needed”. This is the best of both worlds for players and ZOS, people will still need to spend actual money on crowns, and/or maintain ESO+.

In the US, the subscription is about the cost of one hour of work at a job of starting pay, spent per month. But I recognize in other countries that the cost ratio can make the subscription much more expensive.

At UK prices, it's well under the current hourly minimum wage. It's only a little more than a fancy coffee at Starbucks. Like you said, there are countries where it doesn't work out as kindly but I think they're the exception rather than the rule.

I can't think of anything else that hasn't gone up in price in the last 11 years. ESO+ has stayed exactly the same and is still having extras added to it. Even without new content directly attached to it I'm still getting more for the same price and not having to pay extra to play anything. I'm really not getting what the complaints are about.

Just for clarity, I was really upset with last year's content pass but it wasn't about ESO+, I just didn't want to buy dungeons I would likely never do!

SneaK · January 9

Malyore wrote: »

Craft bag, additional crowns, housing limit, transmute limit, bank limit, additional time for antiquities.

This is changing, did you watch the reveal?

The hook, line, and sinker of plus is all the craft bag now. Which is a really crappy way to sell a product/service, something that is close to required if you’re serious about the game, only because the inventory management system is bloated. Here’s an example, I took a 5 year break, came back without plus, my bank space was 100 slots over the limit. I literally couldn’t move gear from character to character. I grinded anyway, stacked mats to create the newer sets, but still had major issues transferring gear. So I caved and bought plus. It’s not an exciting purchase, people aren’t buying it cause it’s cool or nice, they buy it cause they feel like they have to.

I’m not complaining about money, I’m saying the product of ESO+ needs to be more than a craft bag and Crowns should be a currency for the passes.

Alp · January 9

SneaK wrote: »

--
Example:
Free = Free
Paid = 3000 crowns or ESO+
Premium = 3000 crowns and must be ESO+ member to purchase.[/b].

--.

I know it's an example, but putting a paid thing behind a paywall is a recipe for a riot.

Malyore · January 9

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Craft bag, additional crowns, housing limit, transmute limit, bank limit, additional time for antiquities.

This is changing, did you watch the reveal?

How is it changing?

wolfie1.0. · January 9

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

I think it's fine as it is. The content is free.
You can just keep your ESO+ subscription and play whatever new content they release.

There’s literally no reason to keep ESO+ other than a craft bag, and ESO+ isn’t cheap. Selling the passes for crowns would incentivize keeping ESO+ as a consumer. Also the craft bag is currently mandatory, but in the future if they keep requiring less and less physical storage (like transmog/vaults/achives/etc) the craft bag itself won’t be “needed”. This is the best of both worlds for players and ZOS, people will still need to spend actual money on crowns, and/or maintain ESO+.

With surveys being tradeable in unknown mode, they are the most effective way to store mats.

Craft bag can be done without anyways. The best gear to use just requires transmute stones and improvement mats. And style and trait items are only used for furniture and master writs. Both of which you dont need. Food and pots can be purchased, or farmed... its hardly a necessity.

ESO_player123 · January 9

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Craft bag, additional crowns, housing limit, transmute limit, bank limit, additional time for antiquities.

This is changing, did you watch the reveal?

The hook, line, and sinker of plus is all the craft bag now. Which is a really crappy way to sell a product/service, something that is close to required if you’re serious about the game, only because the inventory management system is bloated. Here’s an example, I took a 5 year break, came back without plus, my bank space was 100 slots over the limit. I literally couldn’t move gear from character to character. I grinded anyway, stacked mats to create the newer sets, but still had major issues transferring gear. So I caved and bought plus. It’s not an exciting purchase, people aren’t buying it cause it’s cool or nice, they buy it cause they feel like they have to.

I’m not complaining about money, I’m saying the product of ESO+ needs to be more than a craft bag and Crowns should be a currency for the passes.

@SneaK What is changing? From what I understand the ESO+ subscribers still will get more even after the increase of limits. I think I saw that for transmutes it will be 1500 for non subscribers and 3000 for ESO+. Probably, the same will be for housing limits. And I have not seen anything about the changes for bank limits.

Faulgor · January 9

Malyore wrote: »

I think it's fine as it is. The content is free.
You can just keep your ESO+ subscription and play whatever new content they release.

Access to content was the main seeling point for ESO+.
So I can just quit my ESO+ subscription and "play whatever new content they release", too.

If the content is free, I have no reason to subscribe except for the craft bag and other artifical annoyances like higher currency caps. Which doesn't feel rewarding, just, well, annoying. It's the equivalent of a digital mosquito net.

SneaK · January 9

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Craft bag, additional crowns, housing limit, transmute limit, bank limit, additional time for antiquities.

This is changing, did you watch the reveal?

The hook, line, and sinker of plus is all the craft bag now. Which is a really crappy way to sell a product/service, something that is close to required if you’re serious about the game, only because the inventory management system is bloated. Here’s an example, I took a 5 year break, came back without plus, my bank space was 100 slots over the limit. I literally couldn’t move gear from character to character. I grinded anyway, stacked mats to create the newer sets, but still had major issues transferring gear. So I caved and bought plus. It’s not an exciting purchase, people aren’t buying it cause it’s cool or nice, they buy it cause they feel like they have to.

I’m not complaining about money, I’m saying the product of ESO+ needs to be more than a craft bag and Crowns should be a currency for the passes.

@SneaK What is changing? From what I understand the ESO+ subscribers still will get more even after the increase of limits. I think I saw that for transmutes it will be 1500 for non subscribers and 3000 for ESO+. Probably, the same will be for housing limits. And I have not seen anything about the changes for bank limits.

I have to be careful how
I say this cause these are not bad things, they are very good actually.

The changes to lower cost of bag/bank space, add more vault space, more housing limits, more transmute capacity, antiquity time, etc. is going to be free. These all will impact the actually “necessity” for the craft bag. That’s a great thing. But, what’s left of ESO+? Crowns, and even higher limits, which people are pointing out above are not needed. The incentive to keep eso+ active isn’t there unless they tie it to the passes, and/or make crowns the currency to pay for the passes.

I have no real problem with ESO+, aside from its main function (inventory control) is not something myself enjoys throwing money at.

The post is honestly how I think they’ll sell more ESO+ and ultimately get more players to pick up the game, by spending their rotting crowns and (hopefully) having fun playing ESO.

game balance has to run as fast or faster for people to have fun and stay, though

SneaK · January 9

Faulgor wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

I think it's fine as it is. The content is free.
You can just keep your ESO+ subscription and play whatever new content they release.

Access to content was the main seeling point for ESO+.
So I can just quit my ESO+ subscription and "play whatever new content they release", too.

If the content is free, I have no reason to subscribe except for the craft bag and other artifical annoyances like higher currency caps. Which doesn't feel rewarding, just, well, annoying. It's the equivalent of a digital mosquito net.

Also, What he/she said.

ESO_player123 · January 9

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Craft bag, additional crowns, housing limit, transmute limit, bank limit, additional time for antiquities.

This is changing, did you watch the reveal?

The hook, line, and sinker of plus is all the craft bag now. Which is a really crappy way to sell a product/service, something that is close to required if you’re serious about the game, only because the inventory management system is bloated. Here’s an example, I took a 5 year break, came back without plus, my bank space was 100 slots over the limit. I literally couldn’t move gear from character to character. I grinded anyway, stacked mats to create the newer sets, but still had major issues transferring gear. So I caved and bought plus. It’s not an exciting purchase, people aren’t buying it cause it’s cool or nice, they buy it cause they feel like they have to.

I’m not complaining about money, I’m saying the product of ESO+ needs to be more than a craft bag and Crowns should be a currency for the passes.

@SneaK What is changing? From what I understand the ESO+ subscribers still will get more even after the increase of limits. I think I saw that for transmutes it will be 1500 for non subscribers and 3000 for ESO+. Probably, the same will be for housing limits. And I have not seen anything about the changes for bank limits.

I have to be careful how
I say this cause these are not bad things, they are very good actually.

The changes to lower cost of bag/bank space, add more vault space, more housing limits, more transmute capacity, antiquity time, etc. is going to be free. These all will impact the actually “necessity” for the craft bag. That’s a great thing. But, what’s left of ESO+? Crowns, and even higher limits, which people are pointing out above are not needed. The incentive to keep eso+ active isn’t there unless they tie it to the passes, and/or make crowns the currency to pay for the passes.

I have no real problem with ESO+, aside from its main function (inventory control) is not something myself enjoys throwing money at.

The post is honestly how I think they’ll sell more ESO+ and ultimately get more players to pick up the game, by spending their rotting crowns and (hopefully) having fun playing ESO.
game balance has to run as fast or faster for people to have fun and stay, though

I do not see how decreasing the cost of bag/bank space will affect the necessity of the craft bag. The bank limit is not changing to my knowledge. While the reduced cost is a good thing for new players it does not affect players that spent any sizable time in the game. They already purchased all bag upgrades a long time ago and will still have the same issues with managing the inventory without access to craft bag.

Edit: while I'd LOVE to have free infinite craft bag, I do not see this happening any time soon.

p4l4mu7 · January 9

Malyore wrote: »

Craft bag, additional crowns, housing limit, transmute limit, bank limit, additional time for antiquities.

Yes, create a problem then sell the solution. ESO+ needs actual benefits other than fixing made up problems.

SneaK · January 9

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Craft bag, additional crowns, housing limit, transmute limit, bank limit, additional time for antiquities.

This is changing, did you watch the reveal?

The hook, line, and sinker of plus is all the craft bag now. Which is a really crappy way to sell a product/service, something that is close to required if you’re serious about the game, only because the inventory management system is bloated. Here’s an example, I took a 5 year break, came back without plus, my bank space was 100 slots over the limit. I literally couldn’t move gear from character to character. I grinded anyway, stacked mats to create the newer sets, but still had major issues transferring gear. So I caved and bought plus. It’s not an exciting purchase, people aren’t buying it cause it’s cool or nice, they buy it cause they feel like they have to.

I’m not complaining about money, I’m saying the product of ESO+ needs to be more than a craft bag and Crowns should be a currency for the passes.

@SneaK What is changing? From what I understand the ESO+ subscribers still will get more even after the increase of limits. I think I saw that for transmutes it will be 1500 for non subscribers and 3000 for ESO+. Probably, the same will be for housing limits. And I have not seen anything about the changes for bank limits.

I have to be careful how
I say this cause these are not bad things, they are very good actually.

The changes to lower cost of bag/bank space, add more vault space, more housing limits, more transmute capacity, antiquity time, etc. is going to be free. These all will impact the actually “necessity” for the craft bag. That’s a great thing. But, what’s left of ESO+? Crowns, and even higher limits, which people are pointing out above are not needed. The incentive to keep eso+ active isn’t there unless they tie it to the passes, and/or make crowns the currency to pay for the passes.

I have no real problem with ESO+, aside from its main function (inventory control) is not something myself enjoys throwing money at.

The post is honestly how I think they’ll sell more ESO+ and ultimately get more players to pick up the game, by spending their rotting crowns and (hopefully) having fun playing ESO.
game balance has to run as fast or faster for people to have fun and stay, though

I do not see how decreasing the cost of bag/bank space will affect the necessity of the craft bag. The bank limit is not changing to my knowledge. While the reduced cost is a good thing for new players it does not affect players that spent any sizable time in the game. They already purchased all bag upgrades a long time ago and will still have the same issues with managing the inventory without access to craft bag.

Edit: while I'd LOVE to have free infinite craft bag, I do not see this happening any time soon.

I don’t think we’re seeing each others points.

Let me ask this, if the 10 year vets have everything in regard to inventory unlocked and don’t need the bank space/bag bonus, why do you think they pay for ESO+ each month?

lillybit · January 9

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Craft bag, additional crowns, housing limit, transmute limit, bank limit, additional time for antiquities.

This is changing, did you watch the reveal?

The hook, line, and sinker of plus is all the craft bag now. Which is a really crappy way to sell a product/service, something that is close to required if you’re serious about the game, only because the inventory management system is bloated. Here’s an example, I took a 5 year break, came back without plus, my bank space was 100 slots over the limit. I literally couldn’t move gear from character to character. I grinded anyway, stacked mats to create the newer sets, but still had major issues transferring gear. So I caved and bought plus. It’s not an exciting purchase, people aren’t buying it cause it’s cool or nice, they buy it cause they feel like they have to.

I’m not complaining about money, I’m saying the product of ESO+ needs to be more than a craft bag and Crowns should be a currency for the passes.

@SneaK What is changing? From what I understand the ESO+ subscribers still will get more even after the increase of limits. I think I saw that for transmutes it will be 1500 for non subscribers and 3000 for ESO+. Probably, the same will be for housing limits. And I have not seen anything about the changes for bank limits.

I have to be careful how
I say this cause these are not bad things, they are very good actually.

The changes to lower cost of bag/bank space, add more vault space, more housing limits, more transmute capacity, antiquity time, etc. is going to be free. These all will impact the actually “necessity” for the craft bag. That’s a great thing. But, what’s left of ESO+? Crowns, and even higher limits, which people are pointing out above are not needed. The incentive to keep eso+ active isn’t there unless they tie it to the passes, and/or make crowns the currency to pay for the passes.

I have no real problem with ESO+, aside from its main function (inventory control) is not something myself enjoys throwing money at.

The post is honestly how I think they’ll sell more ESO+ and ultimately get more players to pick up the game, by spending their rotting crowns and (hopefully) having fun playing ESO.
game balance has to run as fast or faster for people to have fun and stay, though

I do not see how decreasing the cost of bag/bank space will affect the necessity of the craft bag. The bank limit is not changing to my knowledge. While the reduced cost is a good thing for new players it does not affect players that spent any sizable time in the game. They already purchased all bag upgrades a long time ago and will still have the same issues with managing the inventory without access to craft bag.

Edit: while I'd LOVE to have free infinite craft bag, I do not see this happening any time soon.

I don’t think we’re seeing each others points.

Let me ask this, if the 10 year vets have everything in regard to inventory unlocked and don’t need the bank space/bag bonus, why do you think they pay for ESO+ each month?

Speaking personally, I sub mostly to support the game. I had ESO+ way before there was a craft bag or DLC's and have never considered stopping it.

Yes, the craft bag and double bank are nice. The double housing limits are the nearest to an essential for me but I could probably get away with just subbing when I want to change completed houses if it was the reason I keep it. The DLC's are a non issue because I "own" all the zones and don't care all that much about access to dungeons. It would actually mean I'd do dungeons more without them because I avoid randoms now knowing they'll probably be time-consuming DLC's.

The idea of somehow punishing ZoS for not running their game how I want by unsubbing makes no sense to me. They're a business that needs income to keep going. If everyone stops every time they did something we didn't like there'd be no game. It costs me less each month than the same amount of crowns so I don't see a downside

SneaK · January 9

lillybit wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Craft bag, additional crowns, housing limit, transmute limit, bank limit, additional time for antiquities.

This is changing, did you watch the reveal?

The hook, line, and sinker of plus is all the craft bag now. Which is a really crappy way to sell a product/service, something that is close to required if you’re serious about the game, only because the inventory management system is bloated. Here’s an example, I took a 5 year break, came back without plus, my bank space was 100 slots over the limit. I literally couldn’t move gear from character to character. I grinded anyway, stacked mats to create the newer sets, but still had major issues transferring gear. So I caved and bought plus. It’s not an exciting purchase, people aren’t buying it cause it’s cool or nice, they buy it cause they feel like they have to.

I’m not complaining about money, I’m saying the product of ESO+ needs to be more than a craft bag and Crowns should be a currency for the passes.

@SneaK What is changing? From what I understand the ESO+ subscribers still will get more even after the increase of limits. I think I saw that for transmutes it will be 1500 for non subscribers and 3000 for ESO+. Probably, the same will be for housing limits. And I have not seen anything about the changes for bank limits.

I have to be careful how
I say this cause these are not bad things, they are very good actually.

The changes to lower cost of bag/bank space, add more vault space, more housing limits, more transmute capacity, antiquity time, etc. is going to be free. These all will impact the actually “necessity” for the craft bag. That’s a great thing. But, what’s left of ESO+? Crowns, and even higher limits, which people are pointing out above are not needed. The incentive to keep eso+ active isn’t there unless they tie it to the passes, and/or make crowns the currency to pay for the passes.

I have no real problem with ESO+, aside from its main function (inventory control) is not something myself enjoys throwing money at.

The post is honestly how I think they’ll sell more ESO+ and ultimately get more players to pick up the game, by spending their rotting crowns and (hopefully) having fun playing ESO.
game balance has to run as fast or faster for people to have fun and stay, though

I do not see how decreasing the cost of bag/bank space will affect the necessity of the craft bag. The bank limit is not changing to my knowledge. While the reduced cost is a good thing for new players it does not affect players that spent any sizable time in the game. They already purchased all bag upgrades a long time ago and will still have the same issues with managing the inventory without access to craft bag.

Edit: while I'd LOVE to have free infinite craft bag, I do not see this happening any time soon.

I don’t think we’re seeing each others points.

Let me ask this, if the 10 year vets have everything in regard to inventory unlocked and don’t need the bank space/bag bonus, why do you think they pay for ESO+ each month?

Speaking personally, I sub mostly to support the game. I had ESO+ way before there was a craft bag or DLC's and have never considered stopping it.

Yes, the craft bag and double bank are nice. The double housing limits are the nearest to an essential for me but I could probably get away with just subbing when I want to change completed houses if it was the reason I keep it. The DLC's are a non issue because I "own" all the zones and don't care all that much about access to dungeons. It would actually mean I'd do dungeons more without them because I avoid randoms now knowing they'll probably be time-consuming DLC's.

The idea of somehow punishing ZoS for not running their game how I want by unsubbing makes no sense to me. They're a business that needs income to keep going. If everyone stops every time they did something we didn't like there'd be no game. It costs me less each month than the same amount of crowns so I don't see a downside

So it’s a donation from you and you see no value in it other than crowns and maybe some weird tax write off. Got it.

Kinda proves my point.

More on topic though, how does allowing the passes to be bought with crowns have any negative affect to us consumers?

lillybit · January 9

SneaK wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Craft bag, additional crowns, housing limit, transmute limit, bank limit, additional time for antiquities.

This is changing, did you watch the reveal?

The hook, line, and sinker of plus is all the craft bag now. Which is a really crappy way to sell a product/service, something that is close to required if you’re serious about the game, only because the inventory management system is bloated. Here’s an example, I took a 5 year break, came back without plus, my bank space was 100 slots over the limit. I literally couldn’t move gear from character to character. I grinded anyway, stacked mats to create the newer sets, but still had major issues transferring gear. So I caved and bought plus. It’s not an exciting purchase, people aren’t buying it cause it’s cool or nice, they buy it cause they feel like they have to.

I’m not complaining about money, I’m saying the product of ESO+ needs to be more than a craft bag and Crowns should be a currency for the passes.

@SneaK What is changing? From what I understand the ESO+ subscribers still will get more even after the increase of limits. I think I saw that for transmutes it will be 1500 for non subscribers and 3000 for ESO+. Probably, the same will be for housing limits. And I have not seen anything about the changes for bank limits.

I have to be careful how
I say this cause these are not bad things, they are very good actually.

The changes to lower cost of bag/bank space, add more vault space, more housing limits, more transmute capacity, antiquity time, etc. is going to be free. These all will impact the actually “necessity” for the craft bag. That’s a great thing. But, what’s left of ESO+? Crowns, and even higher limits, which people are pointing out above are not needed. The incentive to keep eso+ active isn’t there unless they tie it to the passes, and/or make crowns the currency to pay for the passes.

I have no real problem with ESO+, aside from its main function (inventory control) is not something myself enjoys throwing money at.

The post is honestly how I think they’ll sell more ESO+ and ultimately get more players to pick up the game, by spending their rotting crowns and (hopefully) having fun playing ESO.
game balance has to run as fast or faster for people to have fun and stay, though

I do not see how decreasing the cost of bag/bank space will affect the necessity of the craft bag. The bank limit is not changing to my knowledge. While the reduced cost is a good thing for new players it does not affect players that spent any sizable time in the game. They already purchased all bag upgrades a long time ago and will still have the same issues with managing the inventory without access to craft bag.

Edit: while I'd LOVE to have free infinite craft bag, I do not see this happening any time soon.

I don’t think we’re seeing each others points.

Let me ask this, if the 10 year vets have everything in regard to inventory unlocked and don’t need the bank space/bag bonus, why do you think they pay for ESO+ each month?

Speaking personally, I sub mostly to support the game. I had ESO+ way before there was a craft bag or DLC's and have never considered stopping it.

Yes, the craft bag and double bank are nice. The double housing limits are the nearest to an essential for me but I could probably get away with just subbing when I want to change completed houses if it was the reason I keep it. The DLC's are a non issue because I "own" all the zones and don't care all that much about access to dungeons. It would actually mean I'd do dungeons more without them because I avoid randoms now knowing they'll probably be time-consuming DLC's.

The idea of somehow punishing ZoS for not running their game how I want by unsubbing makes no sense to me. They're a business that needs income to keep going. If everyone stops every time they did something we didn't like there'd be no game. It costs me less each month than the same amount of crowns so I don't see a downside

So it’s a donation from you and you see no value in it other than crowns and maybe some weird tax write off. Got it.

Kinda proves my point.

More on topic though, how does allowing the passes to be bought with crowns have any negative affect to us consumers?

It really doesn't prove anything.

I'm buying a product and consider I get value for my money.

You asked why 10+ year players still buy ESO+ and I gave my motivation.

And more on topic, allowing passes to be bought with crowns hurts them because if people are using ESO+ crowns (and the suggestion was that's how it should be) it doesn't generate any revenue for them. They're already giving subscribers 25% off as it is. At the end of the day they still need to make money.

Malyore · January 9

SneaK wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Craft bag, additional crowns, housing limit, transmute limit, bank limit, additional time for antiquities.

This is changing, did you watch the reveal?

The hook, line, and sinker of plus is all the craft bag now. Which is a really crappy way to sell a product/service, something that is close to required if you’re serious about the game, only because the inventory management system is bloated. Here’s an example, I took a 5 year break, came back without plus, my bank space was 100 slots over the limit. I literally couldn’t move gear from character to character. I grinded anyway, stacked mats to create the newer sets, but still had major issues transferring gear. So I caved and bought plus. It’s not an exciting purchase, people aren’t buying it cause it’s cool or nice, they buy it cause they feel like they have to.

I’m not complaining about money, I’m saying the product of ESO+ needs to be more than a craft bag and Crowns should be a currency for the passes.

@SneaK What is changing? From what I understand the ESO+ subscribers still will get more even after the increase of limits. I think I saw that for transmutes it will be 1500 for non subscribers and 3000 for ESO+. Probably, the same will be for housing limits. And I have not seen anything about the changes for bank limits.

I have to be careful how
I say this cause these are not bad things, they are very good actually.

The changes to lower cost of bag/bank space, add more vault space, more housing limits, more transmute capacity, antiquity time, etc. is going to be free. These all will impact the actually “necessity” for the craft bag. That’s a great thing. But, what’s left of ESO+? Crowns, and even higher limits, which people are pointing out above are not needed. The incentive to keep eso+ active isn’t there unless they tie it to the passes, and/or make crowns the currency to pay for the passes.

I have no real problem with ESO+, aside from its main function (inventory control) is not something myself enjoys throwing money at.

The post is honestly how I think they’ll sell more ESO+ and ultimately get more players to pick up the game, by spending their rotting crowns and (hopefully) having fun playing ESO.
game balance has to run as fast or faster for people to have fun and stay, though

I do not see how decreasing the cost of bag/bank space will affect the necessity of the craft bag. The bank limit is not changing to my knowledge. While the reduced cost is a good thing for new players it does not affect players that spent any sizable time in the game. They already purchased all bag upgrades a long time ago and will still have the same issues with managing the inventory without access to craft bag.

Edit: while I'd LOVE to have free infinite craft bag, I do not see this happening any time soon.

I don’t think we’re seeing each others points.

Let me ask this, if the 10 year vets have everything in regard to inventory unlocked and don’t need the bank space/bag bonus, why do you think they pay for ESO+ each month?

Speaking personally, I sub mostly to support the game. I had ESO+ way before there was a craft bag or DLC's and have never considered stopping it.

Yes, the craft bag and double bank are nice. The double housing limits are the nearest to an essential for me but I could probably get away with just subbing when I want to change completed houses if it was the reason I keep it. The DLC's are a non issue because I "own" all the zones and don't care all that much about access to dungeons. It would actually mean I'd do dungeons more without them because I avoid randoms now knowing they'll probably be time-consuming DLC's.

The idea of somehow punishing ZoS for not running their game how I want by unsubbing makes no sense to me. They're a business that needs income to keep going. If everyone stops every time they did something we didn't like there'd be no game. It costs me less each month than the same amount of crowns so I don't see a downside

So it’s a donation from you and you see no value in it other than crowns and maybe some weird tax write off. Got it.

Kinda proves my point.

More on topic though, how does allowing the passes to be bought with crowns have any negative affect to us consumers?

Your question here I think is the more valid point you've made. But the answer I think goes back to the business model lillybit mentioned. New content is now free. That's wonderful for us. But ZOS is still gonna want money to replace the chapter systems income, so they offer the tome system as a replacement for those who choose to engage in it. I actually much prefer this system.
I can't say how the impact on business would be if the tomes were able to be bought with just ESO+. But I can say I appreciate the trade off they've already made by giving us more free content.

Though, I disagree with lillybits take on "punishing" ZOS by cancelling my subscription. It's not about punishment, it's about business, as you say. And not even necessarily for ZOS benefit or change, it's more about respecting my own money as one would do when conducting business.
I didn't buy the new Solstice chapter last year because Necrom and Gold Road did not meet my quality of standards. Since the game didn't meet my standards and I did not buy the new content, I wasn't gonna be in the game as much. It doesn't make sense for me to be investing money into something I'm only playing for 40 minutes a week due to a products decline in quality.
At that point, due to my reduced gametime for "not running the game how I want", ESO+ becomes no longer worth the bonuses, because I would not be benefitting from those bonuses. But once content releases that I actually want to play in, I deem the bonuses as worthwhile and will purchase the subscription again for a month.

SneaK · January 9

lillybit wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Craft bag, additional crowns, housing limit, transmute limit, bank limit, additional time for antiquities.

This is changing, did you watch the reveal?

The hook, line, and sinker of plus is all the craft bag now. Which is a really crappy way to sell a product/service, something that is close to required if you’re serious about the game, only because the inventory management system is bloated. Here’s an example, I took a 5 year break, came back without plus, my bank space was 100 slots over the limit. I literally couldn’t move gear from character to character. I grinded anyway, stacked mats to create the newer sets, but still had major issues transferring gear. So I caved and bought plus. It’s not an exciting purchase, people aren’t buying it cause it’s cool or nice, they buy it cause they feel like they have to.

I’m not complaining about money, I’m saying the product of ESO+ needs to be more than a craft bag and Crowns should be a currency for the passes.

@SneaK What is changing? From what I understand the ESO+ subscribers still will get more even after the increase of limits. I think I saw that for transmutes it will be 1500 for non subscribers and 3000 for ESO+. Probably, the same will be for housing limits. And I have not seen anything about the changes for bank limits.

I have to be careful how
I say this cause these are not bad things, they are very good actually.

The changes to lower cost of bag/bank space, add more vault space, more housing limits, more transmute capacity, antiquity time, etc. is going to be free. These all will impact the actually “necessity” for the craft bag. That’s a great thing. But, what’s left of ESO+? Crowns, and even higher limits, which people are pointing out above are not needed. The incentive to keep eso+ active isn’t there unless they tie it to the passes, and/or make crowns the currency to pay for the passes.

I have no real problem with ESO+, aside from its main function (inventory control) is not something myself enjoys throwing money at.

The post is honestly how I think they’ll sell more ESO+ and ultimately get more players to pick up the game, by spending their rotting crowns and (hopefully) having fun playing ESO.
game balance has to run as fast or faster for people to have fun and stay, though

I do not see how decreasing the cost of bag/bank space will affect the necessity of the craft bag. The bank limit is not changing to my knowledge. While the reduced cost is a good thing for new players it does not affect players that spent any sizable time in the game. They already purchased all bag upgrades a long time ago and will still have the same issues with managing the inventory without access to craft bag.

Edit: while I'd LOVE to have free infinite craft bag, I do not see this happening any time soon.

I don’t think we’re seeing each others points.

Let me ask this, if the 10 year vets have everything in regard to inventory unlocked and don’t need the bank space/bag bonus, why do you think they pay for ESO+ each month?

Speaking personally, I sub mostly to support the game. I had ESO+ way before there was a craft bag or DLC's and have never considered stopping it.

Yes, the craft bag and double bank are nice. The double housing limits are the nearest to an essential for me but I could probably get away with just subbing when I want to change completed houses if it was the reason I keep it. The DLC's are a non issue because I "own" all the zones and don't care all that much about access to dungeons. It would actually mean I'd do dungeons more without them because I avoid randoms now knowing they'll probably be time-consuming DLC's.

The idea of somehow punishing ZoS for not running their game how I want by unsubbing makes no sense to me. They're a business that needs income to keep going. If everyone stops every time they did something we didn't like there'd be no game. It costs me less each month than the same amount of crowns so I don't see a downside

So it’s a donation from you and you see no value in it other than crowns and maybe some weird tax write off. Got it.

Kinda proves my point.

More on topic though, how does allowing the passes to be bought with crowns have any negative affect to us consumers?

It really doesn't prove anything.

I'm buying a product and consider I get value for my money.

You asked why 10+ year players still buy ESO+ and I gave my motivation.

And more on topic, allowing passes to be bought with crowns hurts them because if people are using ESO+ crowns (and the suggestion was that's how it should be) it doesn't generate any revenue for them. They're already giving subscribers 25% off as it is. At the end of the day they still need to make money.

The point is that the people that currently pay for plus, do it for more than just crowns. Many of the upcoming changes diminishes ESO+’s value into more of a crown subscription, which can’t be used on the passes that will give cosmetics. People will drop plus to opt for the passes instead. If we can use crowns for the passes, there’s more incentive to keep plus. The number in the post was just an example, make the passes instead cost 5000 crowns, whatever. It would still incentivize people to maintain plus in order to buy the passes, and people will still buy crowns (aka spend money) to make up the differences in cost for passes, which you can’t buy exact amounts of crowns so you’re still spending more money than what is just “required”.

lillybit · January 9

Malyore wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Craft bag, additional crowns, housing limit, transmute limit, bank limit, additional time for antiquities.

This is changing, did you watch the reveal?

The hook, line, and sinker of plus is all the craft bag now. Which is a really crappy way to sell a product/service, something that is close to required if you’re serious about the game, only because the inventory management system is bloated. Here’s an example, I took a 5 year break, came back without plus, my bank space was 100 slots over the limit. I literally couldn’t move gear from character to character. I grinded anyway, stacked mats to create the newer sets, but still had major issues transferring gear. So I caved and bought plus. It’s not an exciting purchase, people aren’t buying it cause it’s cool or nice, they buy it cause they feel like they have to.

I’m not complaining about money, I’m saying the product of ESO+ needs to be more than a craft bag and Crowns should be a currency for the passes.

@SneaK What is changing? From what I understand the ESO+ subscribers still will get more even after the increase of limits. I think I saw that for transmutes it will be 1500 for non subscribers and 3000 for ESO+. Probably, the same will be for housing limits. And I have not seen anything about the changes for bank limits.

I have to be careful how
I say this cause these are not bad things, they are very good actually.

The changes to lower cost of bag/bank space, add more vault space, more housing limits, more transmute capacity, antiquity time, etc. is going to be free. These all will impact the actually “necessity” for the craft bag. That’s a great thing. But, what’s left of ESO+? Crowns, and even higher limits, which people are pointing out above are not needed. The incentive to keep eso+ active isn’t there unless they tie it to the passes, and/or make crowns the currency to pay for the passes.

I have no real problem with ESO+, aside from its main function (inventory control) is not something myself enjoys throwing money at.

The post is honestly how I think they’ll sell more ESO+ and ultimately get more players to pick up the game, by spending their rotting crowns and (hopefully) having fun playing ESO.
game balance has to run as fast or faster for people to have fun and stay, though

I do not see how decreasing the cost of bag/bank space will affect the necessity of the craft bag. The bank limit is not changing to my knowledge. While the reduced cost is a good thing for new players it does not affect players that spent any sizable time in the game. They already purchased all bag upgrades a long time ago and will still have the same issues with managing the inventory without access to craft bag.

Edit: while I'd LOVE to have free infinite craft bag, I do not see this happening any time soon.

I don’t think we’re seeing each others points.

Let me ask this, if the 10 year vets have everything in regard to inventory unlocked and don’t need the bank space/bag bonus, why do you think they pay for ESO+ each month?

Speaking personally, I sub mostly to support the game. I had ESO+ way before there was a craft bag or DLC's and have never considered stopping it.

Yes, the craft bag and double bank are nice. The double housing limits are the nearest to an essential for me but I could probably get away with just subbing when I want to change completed houses if it was the reason I keep it. The DLC's are a non issue because I "own" all the zones and don't care all that much about access to dungeons. It would actually mean I'd do dungeons more without them because I avoid randoms now knowing they'll probably be time-consuming DLC's.

The idea of somehow punishing ZoS for not running their game how I want by unsubbing makes no sense to me. They're a business that needs income to keep going. If everyone stops every time they did something we didn't like there'd be no game. It costs me less each month than the same amount of crowns so I don't see a downside

So it’s a donation from you and you see no value in it other than crowns and maybe some weird tax write off. Got it.

Kinda proves my point.

More on topic though, how does allowing the passes to be bought with crowns have any negative affect to us consumers?

Your question here I think is the more valid point you've made. But the answer I think goes back to the business model lillybit mentioned. New content is now free. That's wonderful for us. But ZOS is still gonna want money to replace the chapter systems income, so they offer the tome system as a replacement for those who choose to engage in it. I actually much prefer this system.
I can't say how the impact on business would be if the tomes were able to be bought with just ESO+. But I can say I appreciate the trade off they've already made by giving us more free content.

Though, I disagree with lillybits take on "punishing" ZOS by cancelling my subscription. It's not about punishment, it's about business, as you say. And not even necessarily for ZOS benefit or change, it's more about respecting my own money as one would do when conducting business.
I didn't buy the new Solstice chapter last year because Necrom and Gold Road did not meet my quality of standards. Since the game didn't meet my standards and I did not buy the new content, I wasn't gonna be in the game as much. It doesn't make sense for me to be investing money into something I'm only playing for 40 minutes a week due to a products decline in quality.
At that point, due to my reduced gametime for "not running the game how I want", ESO+ becomes no longer worth the bonuses, because I would not be benefitting from those bonuses. But once content releases that I actually want to play in, I deem the bonuses as worthwhile and will purchase the subscription again for a month.

I totally get that, if I was annoyed enough with the game that I stopped playing in a substantial way I'd unsub too. I was more referring to a common thing on here where people get upset over changes and announce they're cancelling their sub over it. It always feels like cutting off your nose to spite your face

wolfie1.0. · January 9

SneaK wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Craft bag, additional crowns, housing limit, transmute limit, bank limit, additional time for antiquities.

This is changing, did you watch the reveal?

The hook, line, and sinker of plus is all the craft bag now. Which is a really crappy way to sell a product/service, something that is close to required if you’re serious about the game, only because the inventory management system is bloated. Here’s an example, I took a 5 year break, came back without plus, my bank space was 100 slots over the limit. I literally couldn’t move gear from character to character. I grinded anyway, stacked mats to create the newer sets, but still had major issues transferring gear. So I caved and bought plus. It’s not an exciting purchase, people aren’t buying it cause it’s cool or nice, they buy it cause they feel like they have to.

I’m not complaining about money, I’m saying the product of ESO+ needs to be more than a craft bag and Crowns should be a currency for the passes.

@SneaK What is changing? From what I understand the ESO+ subscribers still will get more even after the increase of limits. I think I saw that for transmutes it will be 1500 for non subscribers and 3000 for ESO+. Probably, the same will be for housing limits. And I have not seen anything about the changes for bank limits.

I have to be careful how
I say this cause these are not bad things, they are very good actually.

The changes to lower cost of bag/bank space, add more vault space, more housing limits, more transmute capacity, antiquity time, etc. is going to be free. These all will impact the actually “necessity” for the craft bag. That’s a great thing. But, what’s left of ESO+? Crowns, and even higher limits, which people are pointing out above are not needed. The incentive to keep eso+ active isn’t there unless they tie it to the passes, and/or make crowns the currency to pay for the passes.

I have no real problem with ESO+, aside from its main function (inventory control) is not something myself enjoys throwing money at.

The post is honestly how I think they’ll sell more ESO+ and ultimately get more players to pick up the game, by spending their rotting crowns and (hopefully) having fun playing ESO.
game balance has to run as fast or faster for people to have fun and stay, though

I do not see how decreasing the cost of bag/bank space will affect the necessity of the craft bag. The bank limit is not changing to my knowledge. While the reduced cost is a good thing for new players it does not affect players that spent any sizable time in the game. They already purchased all bag upgrades a long time ago and will still have the same issues with managing the inventory without access to craft bag.

Edit: while I'd LOVE to have free infinite craft bag, I do not see this happening any time soon.

I don’t think we’re seeing each others points.

Let me ask this, if the 10 year vets have everything in regard to inventory unlocked and don’t need the bank space/bag bonus, why do you think they pay for ESO+ each month?

Speaking personally, I sub mostly to support the game. I had ESO+ way before there was a craft bag or DLC's and have never considered stopping it.

Yes, the craft bag and double bank are nice. The double housing limits are the nearest to an essential for me but I could probably get away with just subbing when I want to change completed houses if it was the reason I keep it. The DLC's are a non issue because I "own" all the zones and don't care all that much about access to dungeons. It would actually mean I'd do dungeons more without them because I avoid randoms now knowing they'll probably be time-consuming DLC's.

The idea of somehow punishing ZoS for not running their game how I want by unsubbing makes no sense to me. They're a business that needs income to keep going. If everyone stops every time they did something we didn't like there'd be no game. It costs me less each month than the same amount of crowns so I don't see a downside

So it’s a donation from you and you see no value in it other than crowns and maybe some weird tax write off. Got it.

Kinda proves my point.

More on topic though, how does allowing the passes to be bought with crowns have any negative affect to us consumers?

Because crowns are a part of ESO+ benefits. Basically at the prices you set, I could buy ESO+ for 3 months and pay for the highest tier, and still have crowns to sell and use.

Basically there would be no point to thr highest tier which was set up to basically replace the loss of chapter and dlc content that would have normally been purchased.

If they decide to adopt your plan, they would likely remove the crowns as a benefit to eso+, something that would be no small loss.

Malyore · January 9

SneaK wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Craft bag, additional crowns, housing limit, transmute limit, bank limit, additional time for antiquities.

This is changing, did you watch the reveal?

The hook, line, and sinker of plus is all the craft bag now. Which is a really crappy way to sell a product/service, something that is close to required if you’re serious about the game, only because the inventory management system is bloated. Here’s an example, I took a 5 year break, came back without plus, my bank space was 100 slots over the limit. I literally couldn’t move gear from character to character. I grinded anyway, stacked mats to create the newer sets, but still had major issues transferring gear. So I caved and bought plus. It’s not an exciting purchase, people aren’t buying it cause it’s cool or nice, they buy it cause they feel like they have to.

I’m not complaining about money, I’m saying the product of ESO+ needs to be more than a craft bag and Crowns should be a currency for the passes.

@SneaK What is changing? From what I understand the ESO+ subscribers still will get more even after the increase of limits. I think I saw that for transmutes it will be 1500 for non subscribers and 3000 for ESO+. Probably, the same will be for housing limits. And I have not seen anything about the changes for bank limits.

I have to be careful how
I say this cause these are not bad things, they are very good actually.

The changes to lower cost of bag/bank space, add more vault space, more housing limits, more transmute capacity, antiquity time, etc. is going to be free. These all will impact the actually “necessity” for the craft bag. That’s a great thing. But, what’s left of ESO+? Crowns, and even higher limits, which people are pointing out above are not needed. The incentive to keep eso+ active isn’t there unless they tie it to the passes, and/or make crowns the currency to pay for the passes.

I have no real problem with ESO+, aside from its main function (inventory control) is not something myself enjoys throwing money at.

The post is honestly how I think they’ll sell more ESO+ and ultimately get more players to pick up the game, by spending their rotting crowns and (hopefully) having fun playing ESO.
game balance has to run as fast or faster for people to have fun and stay, though

I do not see how decreasing the cost of bag/bank space will affect the necessity of the craft bag. The bank limit is not changing to my knowledge. While the reduced cost is a good thing for new players it does not affect players that spent any sizable time in the game. They already purchased all bag upgrades a long time ago and will still have the same issues with managing the inventory without access to craft bag.

Edit: while I'd LOVE to have free infinite craft bag, I do not see this happening any time soon.

I don’t think we’re seeing each others points.

Let me ask this, if the 10 year vets have everything in regard to inventory unlocked and don’t need the bank space/bag bonus, why do you think they pay for ESO+ each month?

Speaking personally, I sub mostly to support the game. I had ESO+ way before there was a craft bag or DLC's and have never considered stopping it.

Yes, the craft bag and double bank are nice. The double housing limits are the nearest to an essential for me but I could probably get away with just subbing when I want to change completed houses if it was the reason I keep it. The DLC's are a non issue because I "own" all the zones and don't care all that much about access to dungeons. It would actually mean I'd do dungeons more without them because I avoid randoms now knowing they'll probably be time-consuming DLC's.

The idea of somehow punishing ZoS for not running their game how I want by unsubbing makes no sense to me. They're a business that needs income to keep going. If everyone stops every time they did something we didn't like there'd be no game. It costs me less each month than the same amount of crowns so I don't see a downside

So it’s a donation from you and you see no value in it other than crowns and maybe some weird tax write off. Got it.

Kinda proves my point.

More on topic though, how does allowing the passes to be bought with crowns have any negative affect to us consumers?

It really doesn't prove anything.

I'm buying a product and consider I get value for my money.

You asked why 10+ year players still buy ESO+ and I gave my motivation.

And more on topic, allowing passes to be bought with crowns hurts them because if people are using ESO+ crowns (and the suggestion was that's how it should be) it doesn't generate any revenue for them. They're already giving subscribers 25% off as it is. At the end of the day they still need to make money.

The point is that the people that currently pay for plus, do it for more than just crowns. Many of the upcoming changes diminishes ESO+’s value into more of a crown subscription, which can’t be used on the passes that will give cosmetics. People will drop plus to opt for the passes instead. If we can use crowns for the passes, there’s more incentive to keep plus. The number in the post was just an example, make the passes instead cost 5000 crowns, whatever. It would still incentivize people to maintain plus in order to buy the passes, and people will still buy crowns (aka spend money) to make up the differences in cost for passes, which you can’t buy exact amounts of crowns so you’re still spending more money than what is just “required”.

I don't see how the upcoming changes diminish ESO+ value from a perspective of experience and outcome. How I experience ESO+ is the same as it has been since I got the game during Greymoor: I pay for the bonuses (the bonuses are even increasing for this update) while I also get access to new content (without having to even buy a chapter).
Even if the "value" of it has technically changed I think last year with something about not having access to the new, old-zone dungeons(?), I don't see any changes this year that are decreasing its technical value... The DLCs being added to the basegame this year we already offered for free before.

And again, ultimately it's still the same experience, as a player, to be subbed to ESO+ now as it has been before, with the added benefit of I don't have to buy chapters or wait a year to get access to brand new content. I still see that as a win. I don't think people dropped the subscription to buy chapters, and I don't think they dropped their subscription to buy additional crowns. I don't think people will drop their subs now just to get additional cosmetics from a tome.

You are correct that I do use ESO+ for more than just crowns. And nothing I have seen in the announcement

yes, I watched it, despite what you said earlier. You should have been able to tell I watched it by me having listed all of the new ESO+ benefits they listed in the announcement. Did you watch it?

will turn it into just a "crown only subscription" for me.

Malyore · January 9

Malyore wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Craft bag, additional crowns, housing limit, transmute limit, bank limit, additional time for antiquities.

This is changing, did you watch the reveal?

The hook, line, and sinker of plus is all the craft bag now. Which is a really crappy way to sell a product/service, something that is close to required if you’re serious about the game, only because the inventory management system is bloated. Here’s an example, I took a 5 year break, came back without plus, my bank space was 100 slots over the limit. I literally couldn’t move gear from character to character. I grinded anyway, stacked mats to create the newer sets, but still had major issues transferring gear. So I caved and bought plus. It’s not an exciting purchase, people aren’t buying it cause it’s cool or nice, they buy it cause they feel like they have to.

I’m not complaining about money, I’m saying the product of ESO+ needs to be more than a craft bag and Crowns should be a currency for the passes.

@SneaK What is changing? From what I understand the ESO+ subscribers still will get more even after the increase of limits. I think I saw that for transmutes it will be 1500 for non subscribers and 3000 for ESO+. Probably, the same will be for housing limits. And I have not seen anything about the changes for bank limits.

I have to be careful how
I say this cause these are not bad things, they are very good actually.

The changes to lower cost of bag/bank space, add more vault space, more housing limits, more transmute capacity, antiquity time, etc. is going to be free. These all will impact the actually “necessity” for the craft bag. That’s a great thing. But, what’s left of ESO+? Crowns, and even higher limits, which people are pointing out above are not needed. The incentive to keep eso+ active isn’t there unless they tie it to the passes, and/or make crowns the currency to pay for the passes.

I have no real problem with ESO+, aside from its main function (inventory control) is not something myself enjoys throwing money at.

The post is honestly how I think they’ll sell more ESO+ and ultimately get more players to pick up the game, by spending their rotting crowns and (hopefully) having fun playing ESO.
game balance has to run as fast or faster for people to have fun and stay, though

I do not see how decreasing the cost of bag/bank space will affect the necessity of the craft bag. The bank limit is not changing to my knowledge. While the reduced cost is a good thing for new players it does not affect players that spent any sizable time in the game. They already purchased all bag upgrades a long time ago and will still have the same issues with managing the inventory without access to craft bag.

Edit: while I'd LOVE to have free infinite craft bag, I do not see this happening any time soon.

I don’t think we’re seeing each others points.

Let me ask this, if the 10 year vets have everything in regard to inventory unlocked and don’t need the bank space/bag bonus, why do you think they pay for ESO+ each month?

Speaking personally, I sub mostly to support the game. I had ESO+ way before there was a craft bag or DLC's and have never considered stopping it.

Yes, the craft bag and double bank are nice. The double housing limits are the nearest to an essential for me but I could probably get away with just subbing when I want to change completed houses if it was the reason I keep it. The DLC's are a non issue because I "own" all the zones and don't care all that much about access to dungeons. It would actually mean I'd do dungeons more without them because I avoid randoms now knowing they'll probably be time-consuming DLC's.

The idea of somehow punishing ZoS for not running their game how I want by unsubbing makes no sense to me. They're a business that needs income to keep going. If everyone stops every time they did something we didn't like there'd be no game. It costs me less each month than the same amount of crowns so I don't see a downside

So it’s a donation from you and you see no value in it other than crowns and maybe some weird tax write off. Got it.

Kinda proves my point.

More on topic though, how does allowing the passes to be bought with crowns have any negative affect to us consumers?

It really doesn't prove anything.

I'm buying a product and consider I get value for my money.

You asked why 10+ year players still buy ESO+ and I gave my motivation.

And more on topic, allowing passes to be bought with crowns hurts them because if people are using ESO+ crowns (and the suggestion was that's how it should be) it doesn't generate any revenue for them. They're already giving subscribers 25% off as it is. At the end of the day they still need to make money.

The point is that the people that currently pay for plus, do it for more than just crowns. Many of the upcoming changes diminishes ESO+’s value into more of a crown subscription, which can’t be used on the passes that will give cosmetics. People will drop plus to opt for the passes instead. If we can use crowns for the passes, there’s more incentive to keep plus. The number in the post was just an example, make the passes instead cost 5000 crowns, whatever. It would still incentivize people to maintain plus in order to buy the passes, and people will still buy crowns (aka spend money) to make up the differences in cost for passes, which you can’t buy exact amounts of crowns so you’re still spending more money than what is just “required”.

I don't see how the upcoming changes diminish ESO+ value from a perspective of experience and outcome. How I experience ESO+ is the same as it has been since I got the game during Greymoor: I pay for the bonuses (the bonuses are even increasing for this update) while I also get access to new content (without having to even buy a chapter).
Even if the "value" of it has technically changed I think last year with something about not having access to the new, old-zone dungeons(?), I don't see any changes this year that are decreasing its technical value... The DLCs being added to the basegame this year we already offered for free before.

And again, ultimately it's still the same experience, as a player, to be subbed to ESO+ now as it has been before, with the added benefit of I don't have to buy chapters or wait a year to get access to brand new content. I still see that as a win. I don't think people dropped the subscription to buy chapters, and I don't think they dropped their subscription to buy additional crowns. I don't think people will drop their subs now just to get additional cosmetics from a tome.

You are correct that I do use ESO+ for more than just crowns. And nothing I have seen in the announcement
yes, I watched it, despite what you said earlier. You should have been able to tell I watched it by me having listed all of the new ESO+ benefits they listed in the announcement. Did you watch it?
will turn it into just a "crown only subscription" for me.

I think the only thing that would decrease its value is if they either took bonuses away, or made the bonuses equal between non-subbed and subbed. I have not seen this happen this year.

SneaK · January 9

Malyore wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Craft bag, additional crowns, housing limit, transmute limit, bank limit, additional time for antiquities.

This is changing, did you watch the reveal?

The hook, line, and sinker of plus is all the craft bag now. Which is a really crappy way to sell a product/service, something that is close to required if you’re serious about the game, only because the inventory management system is bloated. Here’s an example, I took a 5 year break, came back without plus, my bank space was 100 slots over the limit. I literally couldn’t move gear from character to character. I grinded anyway, stacked mats to create the newer sets, but still had major issues transferring gear. So I caved and bought plus. It’s not an exciting purchase, people aren’t buying it cause it’s cool or nice, they buy it cause they feel like they have to.

I’m not complaining about money, I’m saying the product of ESO+ needs to be more than a craft bag and Crowns should be a currency for the passes.

@SneaK What is changing? From what I understand the ESO+ subscribers still will get more even after the increase of limits. I think I saw that for transmutes it will be 1500 for non subscribers and 3000 for ESO+. Probably, the same will be for housing limits. And I have not seen anything about the changes for bank limits.

I have to be careful how
I say this cause these are not bad things, they are very good actually.

The changes to lower cost of bag/bank space, add more vault space, more housing limits, more transmute capacity, antiquity time, etc. is going to be free. These all will impact the actually “necessity” for the craft bag. That’s a great thing. But, what’s left of ESO+? Crowns, and even higher limits, which people are pointing out above are not needed. The incentive to keep eso+ active isn’t there unless they tie it to the passes, and/or make crowns the currency to pay for the passes.

I have no real problem with ESO+, aside from its main function (inventory control) is not something myself enjoys throwing money at.

The post is honestly how I think they’ll sell more ESO+ and ultimately get more players to pick up the game, by spending their rotting crowns and (hopefully) having fun playing ESO.
game balance has to run as fast or faster for people to have fun and stay, though

I do not see how decreasing the cost of bag/bank space will affect the necessity of the craft bag. The bank limit is not changing to my knowledge. While the reduced cost is a good thing for new players it does not affect players that spent any sizable time in the game. They already purchased all bag upgrades a long time ago and will still have the same issues with managing the inventory without access to craft bag.

Edit: while I'd LOVE to have free infinite craft bag, I do not see this happening any time soon.

I don’t think we’re seeing each others points.

Let me ask this, if the 10 year vets have everything in regard to inventory unlocked and don’t need the bank space/bag bonus, why do you think they pay for ESO+ each month?

Speaking personally, I sub mostly to support the game. I had ESO+ way before there was a craft bag or DLC's and have never considered stopping it.

Yes, the craft bag and double bank are nice. The double housing limits are the nearest to an essential for me but I could probably get away with just subbing when I want to change completed houses if it was the reason I keep it. The DLC's are a non issue because I "own" all the zones and don't care all that much about access to dungeons. It would actually mean I'd do dungeons more without them because I avoid randoms now knowing they'll probably be time-consuming DLC's.

The idea of somehow punishing ZoS for not running their game how I want by unsubbing makes no sense to me. They're a business that needs income to keep going. If everyone stops every time they did something we didn't like there'd be no game. It costs me less each month than the same amount of crowns so I don't see a downside

So it’s a donation from you and you see no value in it other than crowns and maybe some weird tax write off. Got it.

Kinda proves my point.

More on topic though, how does allowing the passes to be bought with crowns have any negative affect to us consumers?

It really doesn't prove anything.

I'm buying a product and consider I get value for my money.

You asked why 10+ year players still buy ESO+ and I gave my motivation.

And more on topic, allowing passes to be bought with crowns hurts them because if people are using ESO+ crowns (and the suggestion was that's how it should be) it doesn't generate any revenue for them. They're already giving subscribers 25% off as it is. At the end of the day they still need to make money.

The point is that the people that currently pay for plus, do it for more than just crowns. Many of the upcoming changes diminishes ESO+’s value into more of a crown subscription, which can’t be used on the passes that will give cosmetics. People will drop plus to opt for the passes instead. If we can use crowns for the passes, there’s more incentive to keep plus. The number in the post was just an example, make the passes instead cost 5000 crowns, whatever. It would still incentivize people to maintain plus in order to buy the passes, and people will still buy crowns (aka spend money) to make up the differences in cost for passes, which you can’t buy exact amounts of crowns so you’re still spending more money than what is just “required”.

I don't see how the upcoming changes diminish ESO+ value from a perspective of experience and outcome. How I experience ESO+ is the same as it has been since I got the game during Greymoor: I pay for the bonuses (the bonuses are even increasing for this update) while I also get access to new content (without having to even buy a chapter).
Even if the "value" of it has technically changed I think last year with something about not having access to the new, old-zone dungeons(?), I don't see any changes this year that are decreasing its technical value... The DLCs being added to the basegame this year we already offered for free before.

And again, ultimately it's still the same experience, as a player, to be subbed to ESO+ now as it has been before, with the added benefit of I don't have to buy chapters or wait a year to get access to brand new content. I still see that as a win. I don't think people dropped the subscription to buy chapters, and I don't think they dropped their subscription to buy additional crowns. I don't think people will drop their subs now just to get additional cosmetics from a tome.

You are correct that I do use ESO+ for more than just crowns. And nothing I have seen in the announcement
yes, I watched it, despite what you said earlier. You should have been able to tell I watched it by me having listed all of the new ESO+ benefits they listed in the announcement. Did you watch it?
will turn it into just a "crown only subscription" for me.

I think the only thing that would decrease its value is if they either took bonuses away, or made the bonuses equal between non-subbed and subbed. I have not seen this happen this year.

You have YOUR reasoning, that’s okay, perfectly fine. It’s not my job to convince you that others have different reasons to subscribe, like access to content. I’m also not trying to bash plus, I’m a subscriber (because of content and bag space). I’m just trying to say that for me (and likeminded folks), the plus value will soon go down; and that would change if crowns could be used to buy the upcoming pass. However if not, I will actually spend less money cause I’ll just buy the med pass 15$ and use my banked crowns from previous plus here and there.

ESO_player123 · January 9

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Craft bag, additional crowns, housing limit, transmute limit, bank limit, additional time for antiquities.

This is changing, did you watch the reveal?

The hook, line, and sinker of plus is all the craft bag now. Which is a really crappy way to sell a product/service, something that is close to required if you’re serious about the game, only because the inventory management system is bloated. Here’s an example, I took a 5 year break, came back without plus, my bank space was 100 slots over the limit. I literally couldn’t move gear from character to character. I grinded anyway, stacked mats to create the newer sets, but still had major issues transferring gear. So I caved and bought plus. It’s not an exciting purchase, people aren’t buying it cause it’s cool or nice, they buy it cause they feel like they have to.

I’m not complaining about money, I’m saying the product of ESO+ needs to be more than a craft bag and Crowns should be a currency for the passes.

@SneaK What is changing? From what I understand the ESO+ subscribers still will get more even after the increase of limits. I think I saw that for transmutes it will be 1500 for non subscribers and 3000 for ESO+. Probably, the same will be for housing limits. And I have not seen anything about the changes for bank limits.

I have to be careful how
I say this cause these are not bad things, they are very good actually.

The changes to lower cost of bag/bank space, add more vault space, more housing limits, more transmute capacity, antiquity time, etc. is going to be free. These all will impact the actually “necessity” for the craft bag. That’s a great thing. But, what’s left of ESO+? Crowns, and even higher limits, which people are pointing out above are not needed. The incentive to keep eso+ active isn’t there unless they tie it to the passes, and/or make crowns the currency to pay for the passes.

I have no real problem with ESO+, aside from its main function (inventory control) is not something myself enjoys throwing money at.

The post is honestly how I think they’ll sell more ESO+ and ultimately get more players to pick up the game, by spending their rotting crowns and (hopefully) having fun playing ESO.
game balance has to run as fast or faster for people to have fun and stay, though

I do not see how decreasing the cost of bag/bank space will affect the necessity of the craft bag. The bank limit is not changing to my knowledge. While the reduced cost is a good thing for new players it does not affect players that spent any sizable time in the game. They already purchased all bag upgrades a long time ago and will still have the same issues with managing the inventory without access to craft bag.

Edit: while I'd LOVE to have free infinite craft bag, I do not see this happening any time soon.

I don’t think we’re seeing each others points.

Let me ask this, if the 10 year vets have everything in regard to inventory unlocked and don’t need the bank space/bag bonus, why do you think they pay for ESO+ each month?

I feel that I might be misunderstanding what you mean by space/bag bonus. Did they say anything about increasing the number of bank slot (from 240/480 up)? I understood that they are going to reduce the cost of buying bag upgrades. May be I missed something.

I cannot say why other players subscribe to ESO+, but I can say why I do this. Craft bag for sure, yes. But I also need the double bank space, the double housing slots (I do housing and hope they will find a way to increase the limit for notable homes too as I would like to expand a couple of my builds), and the double transmutes (I'm always at capacity). And the crowns too of course.

Edit: forgot to add the access to DLC dungeons as well (duh). I never buy them separately.

wolfie1.0. · January 10

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Craft bag, additional crowns, housing limit, transmute limit, bank limit, additional time for antiquities.

This is changing, did you watch the reveal?

The hook, line, and sinker of plus is all the craft bag now. Which is a really crappy way to sell a product/service, something that is close to required if you’re serious about the game, only because the inventory management system is bloated. Here’s an example, I took a 5 year break, came back without plus, my bank space was 100 slots over the limit. I literally couldn’t move gear from character to character. I grinded anyway, stacked mats to create the newer sets, but still had major issues transferring gear. So I caved and bought plus. It’s not an exciting purchase, people aren’t buying it cause it’s cool or nice, they buy it cause they feel like they have to.

I’m not complaining about money, I’m saying the product of ESO+ needs to be more than a craft bag and Crowns should be a currency for the passes.

@SneaK What is changing? From what I understand the ESO+ subscribers still will get more even after the increase of limits. I think I saw that for transmutes it will be 1500 for non subscribers and 3000 for ESO+. Probably, the same will be for housing limits. And I have not seen anything about the changes for bank limits.

I have to be careful how
I say this cause these are not bad things, they are very good actually.

The changes to lower cost of bag/bank space, add more vault space, more housing limits, more transmute capacity, antiquity time, etc. is going to be free. These all will impact the actually “necessity” for the craft bag. That’s a great thing. But, what’s left of ESO+? Crowns, and even higher limits, which people are pointing out above are not needed. The incentive to keep eso+ active isn’t there unless they tie it to the passes, and/or make crowns the currency to pay for the passes.

I have no real problem with ESO+, aside from its main function (inventory control) is not something myself enjoys throwing money at.

The post is honestly how I think they’ll sell more ESO+ and ultimately get more players to pick up the game, by spending their rotting crowns and (hopefully) having fun playing ESO.
game balance has to run as fast or faster for people to have fun and stay, though

I do not see how decreasing the cost of bag/bank space will affect the necessity of the craft bag. The bank limit is not changing to my knowledge. While the reduced cost is a good thing for new players it does not affect players that spent any sizable time in the game. They already purchased all bag upgrades a long time ago and will still have the same issues with managing the inventory without access to craft bag.

Edit: while I'd LOVE to have free infinite craft bag, I do not see this happening any time soon.

I don’t think we’re seeing each others points.

Let me ask this, if the 10 year vets have everything in regard to inventory unlocked and don’t need the bank space/bag bonus, why do you think they pay for ESO+ each month?

Speaking personally, I sub mostly to support the game. I had ESO+ way before there was a craft bag or DLC's and have never considered stopping it.

Yes, the craft bag and double bank are nice. The double housing limits are the nearest to an essential for me but I could probably get away with just subbing when I want to change completed houses if it was the reason I keep it. The DLC's are a non issue because I "own" all the zones and don't care all that much about access to dungeons. It would actually mean I'd do dungeons more without them because I avoid randoms now knowing they'll probably be time-consuming DLC's.

The idea of somehow punishing ZoS for not running their game how I want by unsubbing makes no sense to me. They're a business that needs income to keep going. If everyone stops every time they did something we didn't like there'd be no game. It costs me less each month than the same amount of crowns so I don't see a downside

So it’s a donation from you and you see no value in it other than crowns and maybe some weird tax write off. Got it.

Kinda proves my point.

More on topic though, how does allowing the passes to be bought with crowns have any negative affect to us consumers?

It really doesn't prove anything.

I'm buying a product and consider I get value for my money.

You asked why 10+ year players still buy ESO+ and I gave my motivation.

And more on topic, allowing passes to be bought with crowns hurts them because if people are using ESO+ crowns (and the suggestion was that's how it should be) it doesn't generate any revenue for them. They're already giving subscribers 25% off as it is. At the end of the day they still need to make money.

The point is that the people that currently pay for plus, do it for more than just crowns. Many of the upcoming changes diminishes ESO+’s value into more of a crown subscription, which can’t be used on the passes that will give cosmetics. People will drop plus to opt for the passes instead. If we can use crowns for the passes, there’s more incentive to keep plus. The number in the post was just an example, make the passes instead cost 5000 crowns, whatever. It would still incentivize people to maintain plus in order to buy the passes, and people will still buy crowns (aka spend money) to make up the differences in cost for passes, which you can’t buy exact amounts of crowns so you’re still spending more money than what is just “required”.

I don't see how the upcoming changes diminish ESO+ value from a perspective of experience and outcome. How I experience ESO+ is the same as it has been since I got the game during Greymoor: I pay for the bonuses (the bonuses are even increasing for this update) while I also get access to new content (without having to even buy a chapter).
Even if the "value" of it has technically changed I think last year with something about not having access to the new, old-zone dungeons(?), I don't see any changes this year that are decreasing its technical value... The DLCs being added to the basegame this year we already offered for free before.

And again, ultimately it's still the same experience, as a player, to be subbed to ESO+ now as it has been before, with the added benefit of I don't have to buy chapters or wait a year to get access to brand new content. I still see that as a win. I don't think people dropped the subscription to buy chapters, and I don't think they dropped their subscription to buy additional crowns. I don't think people will drop their subs now just to get additional cosmetics from a tome.

You are correct that I do use ESO+ for more than just crowns. And nothing I have seen in the announcement
yes, I watched it, despite what you said earlier. You should have been able to tell I watched it by me having listed all of the new ESO+ benefits they listed in the announcement. Did you watch it?
will turn it into just a "crown only subscription" for me.

I think the only thing that would decrease its value is if they either took bonuses away, or made the bonuses equal between non-subbed and subbed. I have not seen this happen this year.

You have YOUR reasoning, that’s okay, perfectly fine. It’s not my job to convince you that others have different reasons to subscribe, like access to content. I’m also not trying to bash plus, I’m a subscriber (because of content and bag space). I’m just trying to say that for me (and likeminded folks), the plus value will soon go down; and that would change if crowns could be used to buy the upcoming pass. However if not, I will actually spend less money cause I’ll just buy the med pass 15$ and use my banked crowns from previous plus here and there.

The medium pass comes with eso plus...

EDIT: i was aroung about the above. based on the blog about the tomes you get credits for unlocking sections of the Tomes not plus tier

Premuim is the higher tier at $15

Premium + just allows you to unlock the premium teir faster at $30.

Malyore · January 10

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Craft bag, additional crowns, housing limit, transmute limit, bank limit, additional time for antiquities.

This is changing, did you watch the reveal?

The hook, line, and sinker of plus is all the craft bag now. Which is a really crappy way to sell a product/service, something that is close to required if you’re serious about the game, only because the inventory management system is bloated. Here’s an example, I took a 5 year break, came back without plus, my bank space was 100 slots over the limit. I literally couldn’t move gear from character to character. I grinded anyway, stacked mats to create the newer sets, but still had major issues transferring gear. So I caved and bought plus. It’s not an exciting purchase, people aren’t buying it cause it’s cool or nice, they buy it cause they feel like they have to.

I’m not complaining about money, I’m saying the product of ESO+ needs to be more than a craft bag and Crowns should be a currency for the passes.

@SneaK What is changing? From what I understand the ESO+ subscribers still will get more even after the increase of limits. I think I saw that for transmutes it will be 1500 for non subscribers and 3000 for ESO+. Probably, the same will be for housing limits. And I have not seen anything about the changes for bank limits.

I have to be careful how
I say this cause these are not bad things, they are very good actually.

The changes to lower cost of bag/bank space, add more vault space, more housing limits, more transmute capacity, antiquity time, etc. is going to be free. These all will impact the actually “necessity” for the craft bag. That’s a great thing. But, what’s left of ESO+? Crowns, and even higher limits, which people are pointing out above are not needed. The incentive to keep eso+ active isn’t there unless they tie it to the passes, and/or make crowns the currency to pay for the passes.

I have no real problem with ESO+, aside from its main function (inventory control) is not something myself enjoys throwing money at.

The post is honestly how I think they’ll sell more ESO+ and ultimately get more players to pick up the game, by spending their rotting crowns and (hopefully) having fun playing ESO.
game balance has to run as fast or faster for people to have fun and stay, though

I do not see how decreasing the cost of bag/bank space will affect the necessity of the craft bag. The bank limit is not changing to my knowledge. While the reduced cost is a good thing for new players it does not affect players that spent any sizable time in the game. They already purchased all bag upgrades a long time ago and will still have the same issues with managing the inventory without access to craft bag.

Edit: while I'd LOVE to have free infinite craft bag, I do not see this happening any time soon.

I don’t think we’re seeing each others points.

Let me ask this, if the 10 year vets have everything in regard to inventory unlocked and don’t need the bank space/bag bonus, why do you think they pay for ESO+ each month?

Speaking personally, I sub mostly to support the game. I had ESO+ way before there was a craft bag or DLC's and have never considered stopping it.

Yes, the craft bag and double bank are nice. The double housing limits are the nearest to an essential for me but I could probably get away with just subbing when I want to change completed houses if it was the reason I keep it. The DLC's are a non issue because I "own" all the zones and don't care all that much about access to dungeons. It would actually mean I'd do dungeons more without them because I avoid randoms now knowing they'll probably be time-consuming DLC's.

The idea of somehow punishing ZoS for not running their game how I want by unsubbing makes no sense to me. They're a business that needs income to keep going. If everyone stops every time they did something we didn't like there'd be no game. It costs me less each month than the same amount of crowns so I don't see a downside

So it’s a donation from you and you see no value in it other than crowns and maybe some weird tax write off. Got it.

Kinda proves my point.

More on topic though, how does allowing the passes to be bought with crowns have any negative affect to us consumers?

It really doesn't prove anything.

I'm buying a product and consider I get value for my money.

You asked why 10+ year players still buy ESO+ and I gave my motivation.

And more on topic, allowing passes to be bought with crowns hurts them because if people are using ESO+ crowns (and the suggestion was that's how it should be) it doesn't generate any revenue for them. They're already giving subscribers 25% off as it is. At the end of the day they still need to make money.

The point is that the people that currently pay for plus, do it for more than just crowns. Many of the upcoming changes diminishes ESO+’s value into more of a crown subscription, which can’t be used on the passes that will give cosmetics. People will drop plus to opt for the passes instead. If we can use crowns for the passes, there’s more incentive to keep plus. The number in the post was just an example, make the passes instead cost 5000 crowns, whatever. It would still incentivize people to maintain plus in order to buy the passes, and people will still buy crowns (aka spend money) to make up the differences in cost for passes, which you can’t buy exact amounts of crowns so you’re still spending more money than what is just “required”.

I don't see how the upcoming changes diminish ESO+ value from a perspective of experience and outcome. How I experience ESO+ is the same as it has been since I got the game during Greymoor: I pay for the bonuses (the bonuses are even increasing for this update) while I also get access to new content (without having to even buy a chapter).
Even if the "value" of it has technically changed I think last year with something about not having access to the new, old-zone dungeons(?), I don't see any changes this year that are decreasing its technical value... The DLCs being added to the basegame this year we already offered for free before.

And again, ultimately it's still the same experience, as a player, to be subbed to ESO+ now as it has been before, with the added benefit of I don't have to buy chapters or wait a year to get access to brand new content. I still see that as a win. I don't think people dropped the subscription to buy chapters, and I don't think they dropped their subscription to buy additional crowns. I don't think people will drop their subs now just to get additional cosmetics from a tome.

You are correct that I do use ESO+ for more than just crowns. And nothing I have seen in the announcement
yes, I watched it, despite what you said earlier. You should have been able to tell I watched it by me having listed all of the new ESO+ benefits they listed in the announcement. Did you watch it?
will turn it into just a "crown only subscription" for me.

I think the only thing that would decrease its value is if they either took bonuses away, or made the bonuses equal between non-subbed and subbed. I have not seen this happen this year.

You have YOUR reasoning, that’s okay, perfectly fine. It’s not my job to convince you that others have different reasons to subscribe, like access to content. I’m also not trying to bash plus, I’m a subscriber (because of content and bag space). I’m just trying to say that for me (and likeminded folks), the plus value will soon go down; and that would change if crowns could be used to buy the upcoming pass. However if not, I will actually spend less money cause I’ll just buy the med pass 15$ and use my banked crowns from previous plus here and there.

I know my reasoning for subscription isn't in question.

What I still don't understand your reasons for why the value of the subscription is going down for you and like-minded people... Because I don't see what about ESO+ is changing, aside from getting MORE bonuses in this upcoming update.

How does ESO+ getting more benefits and ZOS adding a price tag on premium cosmetics make ESO+ less valuable to you? Is it because your value/reason of ESO+ has been being able to get, via crowns, whatever cosmetics you want, thus now being locked out of the new cosmetics by a price tag?

Enemoriana · January 10

SneaK wrote: »

Example:
Free = Free
Paid = 3000 crowns or ESO+
Premium = 3000 crowns and must be ESO+ member to purchase.[/b].

If that tome things would be sold different from ESO+ (for crowns or like chapters, no matter) - pls no.
It would be horrible to have thing I could buy locked behind ESO+ that technically isn't available in my country.
I can get gold to get crown gift, I can get steam gift, but there is no way to get ESO+ without changing region.

Pure ESO+ exclusives are ok (painful, but ok), but "you can buy... oh, wait, no, because you can't buy another thing" - no.