Werewolves - An Idea

Zromguy_ESO · April 2014

So, as many people know, werewolves are broken right now. I have an entire thread covering every issue that the community and I have come across, and there are a bunch of other threads that talk about the same thing. The biggest issue is the ultimate cost, but many other people are p*ssed about not being able to show off to your friends that you went through the massive pain in the ass that it is to become a werewolf. To this, I say you should at least get a title after completing the werewolf or vampire quests that actually say "werewolf" and "vampire" under your character name. The titles would obviously be toggleable, and you would lose them if you cured the diseases.

Also, a ton of other people want ZOS to make werewolf transformation toggleable rather than an ultimate ability. Until this point, I thought that would be a dumb idea because it would make wolves OP. But, after thinking about it, it could work with proper disadvantages added alongside it. Here's my ideas: the transformation would remain an ultimate ability that would only cost around 100-200 ultimate to activate (people are suggesting it shouldn't cost anything to toggle the transformation on and off, but it needs to in order for it to be balanced). Also, there would be no time limit as to how long you can stay in the form. However, once you activate the form, your character does not transform immediately. You must go through 5 stages where your character will look more and more like a wolf (the 1st stage is human form, 5th stage is full werewolf form).

You would be in stages 1-4 for around 15 seconds, adding up to a full minute before you reach the all-out werewolf form (stage 5). Once the transformation ultimate is activated, your character would put away his or her weapon(s) and would only be able to use the werewolf attack animation. At the 1st stage, however, you would only do 20% of the damage you would at the 5th stage. At the 2nd stage, you would do 40%, 3rd you would do 60%, 4th you would do 80%, and, obviously, at the 5th stage you would do the normal, boosted damage that comes with being a werewolf - based on your max stamina. Once you have activated the transformation, however, there would be no getting out of it for at least 5 minutes. Maybe ZOS could even make it so that town guards (in the PvE world) and all NPCs in your alliance's keeps (in PvP) become hostile towards you while in wolf form to add to the immersion. Devour could be turned into an ability that provides you health and stamina when activated and, maybe, after eating a set amount of enemies, you could gain the option to turn back into human form early by pressing the ultimate hotkey again.

Just an idea, what do you think?

Rosebloome · April 2014

At this point, I think just about anything other than what we currently have is a good idea. Its that broken.

Also your idea is neat and don't get me wrong, I like it. But that'd probably take resources to animate and etc that they might not have since they have a group on bugs and thing the rest on craglorn?

Neutronium_Dragon · April 2014

Making the transform convoluted isn't going to improve anything. The 'channel time' that's already involved in transforming would be enough of a limit on it as an at-will toggle. Thematically it might make some sense that you can't untoggle it while in combat (which is also a big opportunity cost), but turning NPCs hostile in TESO's context is a non-starter.

Zromguy_ESO · April 2014

Neutronium_Dragon wrote: »

Making the transform convoluted isn't going to improve anything. The 'channel time' that's already involved in transforming would be enough of a limit on it as an at-will toggle. Thematically it might make some sense that you can't untoggle it while in combat (which is also a big opportunity cost), but turning NPCs hostile in TESO's context is a non-starter.

My idea of making it "convoluted" was so that players could have a bit more freedom as to when and for how long they could turn. Also, it would eliminate the complaint that the ultimate cost is too high by making it only cost 100-200. The 5 stages and townspeople attacking you are both to make the werewolf experience feel more immersive, relate more with traditional folklore and TES lore, and also to provide more balance to the rather OP concept of a toggleable werewolf form.

Overall, like Rosebloom flawlessly stated,

Rosebloome wrote: »

At this point, I think just about anything other than what we currently have is a good idea. Its that broken.

The current system of a 1000 point ultimate ability that you can use for a good 2 minutes at max without the use of the devour bug is outrageous and completely impractical by every sense of the word. My idea obviously has flaws and, like you and Roseblood said, it might be too complicated to be implemented right now. But, let's face it... the skill line needs a major overhaul.

Mustaklaki · April 2014

There's lots of people in game dev that people call "Dreamers"... they have crazy ideas for things that could be neat, but have no concept of how long it would take to make/how much effort it would take/how many resources it would take up/how many more bugs it would make/how much more testing it would need. Neat idea but it's not going to happen, they couldn't even get the simple Werewolf we have now to work properly. People need to lower their standards.

Spriggen · April 2014

I really don't understand what's everyone's problem. The system works with out the little bugs like pack master and devour. The 1000 point gate is easy to get. I can get that in under a min of fight mobs none stop. I can get that in less then 5 min in a PvP match with a small kill team.

There are sets that decrease ultimate by 33%. This does work for werewolves. Also I'm not sure if it's a bug or some sort of reward for killing pets that mobs spawn but that's 200 points once you have killed them.

Zromguy_ESO · April 2014

Spriggen wrote: »

There are sets that decrease ultimate by 33%. This does work for werewolves. Also I'm not sure if it's a bug or some sort of reward for killing pets that mobs spawn but that's 200 points once you have killed them.

You need to be level 47-50 to wear that set, which I am not. Plus, you need to wear 5 pieces to get the effect. There's also another set that gives you a 20% reduction, but it requires you to use a sword and shield to get the effect. And I've heard all kinds of sh*t about killing spriggans' wolf pets for extra ultimate, but it doesn't work for me. And I don't know what you're doing to get 1000 ultimate in 5 minutes of PvP. It takes me at least 10 minutes of mob grinding in Cyrodiil to get it that high, only to lose it all as I'm running across the map because of the damn ult reset glitch.

Mustaklaki wrote: »

There's lots of people in game dev that people call "Dreamers"... they have crazy ideas for things that could be neat, but have no concept of how long it would take to make/how much effort it would take/how many resources it would take up/how many more bugs it would make/how much more testing it would need.

I understand where you're coming from and, yeah, I know this post is a bit on the unrealistic side. I get it. I'm just trying to throw out suggestions to improve this aspect of the game, rather than endlessly complain about it like everyone else. If you think about it, this idea isn't as insanely far fetched as everyone is saying, though. All they have to do is make a few new character models and write a few lines of script. The only resources they need are coffee and some toilet paper to wipe their asses over the week that it might take to fix the werewolf and vampire skill lines. The only reason it hasn't been done yet is because they have bigger fish to fry with lag issues and Craglorn.

Spriggen · April 2014

@Zromguy_ESO‌ I'm not using the Savior's Hide set yet as I havnt collected them all. I'm using the Akaviri Dragonguard set which brings my transformation ultimate from 1000 to 800. Which is very helpful. The saviors hide set will bring the ultimate down to 670. So that's the set to get for all werewolves.

You all need to understand the werewolf mechanic in this game. We are VERY powerful and bringing the standard ultimate points down just because you want to be in werewolf form more often is not going to be balanced PvE and PvP.
In PvP, I'm able to 3 heavy attack a semi tank/healer character with out a problem and move to my next target.

To answer your question Zromguy_ESO about PvP. I'm from Australia and PvP with the zerg is absolutely a no no where I am. So my guild and I have small kill teams. Picking our fights when we like. Going against a group of 5 to 10 players will get me to 800 points with out any issues like this.

Truth is that I enjoy my class so much that I forget I'm a werewolf. And when it comes time to turn, I'm swimming in blood of my enemies.

biodragon · May 2014

Maybe make OP Werewolf in terms of damage or/and defence but when you using that "dark" power for long time, system should not reward you (loot, gold, ap, character xp). The only thing you can get by using wolf strength is your own
pleasure from killing or cooperation with pack.

How about option to choose your path of Lycanthropy by some quest after leveling up base version to maximum? For example between:

- "Light version" which works similar to current version (but have improvements and fixes) for people who want use Werewolf form as simple OP tool for short time and do not really want to feel cursed. Just another "I win" button (good for 1vs4 situations).

Summary: 2 active skills, "Boss" strength for limited time. Wolf form only available for Ultimate skill duration.

- "Heavy version" which could have much deeper impact on game play where curse is far more painful (not by debuffs, but also environment) and helpful at the same time. Strength without party is equal to regular player who wear Heavy armour and uses 2 swords. Wolf ultimate works for wolf form and for human form. For people who want RP, PvE ("questers") and PvP .

Summary: 2 skills, buffs from playing in party, unlimited time in Wolf form and independent ultimate (works in both forms). Normal strength after change, "boss" strength after ultimate for limited time.

- "Feral version" - You are now true wolf and that is your basic shape, Human form is only disguise. Ultimate reverts you to Human for limited time. Your strength in wolf form is slightly better than normal player wearing heavy armour (legendary quality) and 2 swords, also ignores enemy's armour value. More active skills, limited healing received from not infected players, stronger skill effects (Roar now fears more enemies for longer time and stun one of them, pounce have chance for instant kill). Ability to finish Veteran dungeons in that form (by party of Werewolves) . Unable to loot or speak with NPC in wolf form also enemy killed in that form does not leave loot. Any experience (character XP, skill XP, alliance points) are gained from full devours (not kills). For people who are hardcore PvE grinders (good for dungeons), RP, crowded PvP.

Summary: 6 (5+U) skills, stronger auto-buffs when in party, painful environmental penalties, self-sufficient (no need to use any items/gold to finish PvE part). Limited time in human form. Stronger in wolf form than "Heavy version" but weaker in Human.

More detailed example:

In both forms:
- Poison damage is normal.
- Increased damage from Fighters Guild skills.
- Replaced Werewolf skill line by more "wolf" like version (more CC control like ability to separate prey from crowd) and increased maximum level to 50
- Transformation can result in the loss or breakdown items (in a backpack or used)

In human form:
- chance of automatic transformation when taking damage.. Chance depends from current HP and time passed from last change.
- Significantly lower received healing from players who don't have Lycanthropy.
- Significantly reduced the amount of HP and Stamina (smoothed by devouring in werewolf form)
- Can heal werewolves in transformed state (also add some time to "Light" players)
- Lowered HP and defence for some time after restoring form (maybe 1 hour?).

In wolf form:
- Unlimited time in that form
- Can't interact with NPC, collect loot or interact with items (with few exceptions: like doors, items to destroy) or use backpack.
- This form don't take any advantages from human form (like critical chance, racial buffs, armour and glyphs, alliance war buffs).
- Enemy killed in that form not leaving any loot or Alliance Points, but increase Werewolf skill level. Others who help kill that enemy also don't get anything.
- Defence, maximum HP and attack power are based by skill level and player level (and group members if in group)
- More received healing from players who have Lycanthropy. Unable to be healed by players who don't have Lycanthropy.
- Strong armour and huge amount HP
- Strong buffs (critical, attack speed) if player is in pack (grouped)
- Skill with AoE heal (works only for pack members not player itself).
- Better RP and wolf-like skills (prey tracking, CC skills, party summon)
- Able to infect just by dealing damage.
- Devouring restores HP and removes negative effect and causes devoured body to disintegrate to pile of bones if more than 1 werewolf is devouring it

- Risk of losing control (eg. everybody are shown as a enemies, unrecognizable by player who is who)

Sorry for my English – not my native language.

Edit 23.05 - Feral version

WhitePawPrints · May 2014

I want to see the concept sketch of a Khajiit transformation phases, and a Argonian transformation phases. :P

Werewolves are technically naked, so phase 2 and 3 would have to involve some sort of shredded scraps of clothes or other animation anomalies. The full body type of progression, using weapons and such, would also be rather difficult to get right.

Animation factors aside, the progression of becoming full werewolf form would have potential. Personally I like the quick transformation that would cause initial fear but I don't have any reason to say why this type of progression wouldn't work. Maybe just add the option of a quick transformation at after Werewolf is fully leveled for picky players like me? :P